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Hello everyone, this is the first time I have ever posted anything online so I am not sure if I am in the right area in this site but I really need opinions and would greatly appreciate any you would have....I talk a lot so this may be pretty long but I will try my best to keep it on the shorter end :D
Here is a "little" background before I start. My husband decided to go back to school about two years ago and I was so happy for him and proud of him. All of his classes for this are done online, maybe a handful of times did he have to drive into school and the last two months of school require him to stay in another city for class (coming home on the weekends) and then it is graduation. Ever since he started school he took on a whole lot of classes to get done in two years, so he basically lived in our basement 24/7 coming up to eat, sleep, ****, shower and shave. He found a few people (he had classes that had requested you to purchase a camera and skype with your group) that he got close with, "older people like us", he says, "those who are more wanting to get schooling done and not "party" on mommy and daddy's money". Those few people, 3 guys (including him) and one girl had they decided to stick together throughout the whole 2 years because they wanted the same degree so why not take the same classes and work together (makes sense to me). One of the guys they decided to kick out because he would never pull his weight in the group when it came to "home work" so, now down to 2 guys 1 girl (all either married or has a significant other for a lot of years and have children).
Okay here it goes...Right before finals (about January 2013) my husband mentions this gal "Anne" and how her and her husband have 10 kids between them, previous relationships I am assuming but he thought it to be rare so he wanted to share it with me. For a couple of weeks after telling me about her he tells me about how her youngest daughter may have a major medical problem that could be deadly (rare cancer). Having 4 kids I couldn't imagine what she was going through, we talked about her often and I felt so bad for her. I asked him a week or two later how she was doing because he hadn't said anything about her in a while and he said, "they happened to be totally wrong, after extensive testing she happens to be okay, blah blah blah." Then I was downstairs in his "school man cave" because I have a "salon" down there and I needed some major waxing when I over heard my husband say, "well what do you think? Her group "flaked" out on her, do you care if she joins our group? I have been talking a lot with her and she is pretty cool and she needs a group, why not ours?" I think nothing of it, he is at school and I do not want to interrupt to ask what that was about, so I let it go. a couple of weeks later my husband asks me, "do you care if Trent (the other guy in the group of 3) and I study on Friday, there is nothing on the calendar"? I said, "I don't care, but write it on the calendar so if something comes up, I do not plan anything that night (someone has to watch the kids)". All along, I do not see my husband but for when he is eating (which he usually does downstairs now) or going to bed and it is taking a toll on our relationship because for almost two years I am keeping the kids away and/or occupied so dad can get done with his school work, I am doing everything that needs to be done around the house, everything (for kids and house)! I am depressed and getting sick of my minotunous life but I have only 6 months left and my husband will be done with school and we can get back to "normal". My husband of course is very happy which makes things so much worse for me. I have also been told by my kids (a lot in the year and a half) that dad/hubby wasn't doing homework, he was watching TV or chatting on the phone (not about school), pretty much taking advantage of me and his "FREE TIME" so I am just plain angry! I asked him about it and he says, "I was taking a break from school". I say, "don't you think you should take a break with your kids so I can have a break"? Soon after, on a Monday morning, he walks into the house (as I was about to walk down to our main level (so not in the basement, mancave) and he is chatting "sweetly" to someone on the phone. I back up into our room and listen, after a few minutes he says, "alright Milady, I better let you go, I am home now and I should try and get something done". MILADY!? Really?! (more background) my husband is usually downstairs or sitting in his car finishing his phone calls before he comes in, I am pretty sure he thought he was the only one home this morning so no need to sit in the car to finish talking). Instead of freaking out in front of him I wanted to find out if there was any other reason to be angry at him (besides him calling another woman "Milady" so I went online (honestly this was the first time I had ever done this) to our mobile phone company site to see if it would tell me who he was talking to (it doesn't tell you, just a number), on the site it said all I had to do was click on the "number listed" and it would give me a list of every time they talked, how long, how many texts, when and if he initiated these conversations (if he called her or she called him, he text her or she text him), so I clicked on the number ~ no texts in Jan and there were 4 calls totally 15min ~ in Feb there were 25 texts back and forth and 120 mins of talking together (WTHell?!), in March there were 50 texts back and forth with 70min of talking to each other and in April which at the time I only had 3 days that I could access (the 3rd, 4th and 5th) and already they were at 58min of talking back and forth just on the 4th & 5th, two days and 8 texts on the 5th!!! This number I had been searching was the number that he had been talking to when he walked into the house and ended his conversation using "Milady". A friend of mine called the number and guess who it was? It was "Anne" the gal with 10 kids. The one my hubby got me to feel sorry for. All of the texts back and forth and the calls back and forth were either when he was on his way out every morning, on his way home every morning (between 5am and 7am) or at night when I was asleep!! Those times he stayed outside to chat (in the driveway) and the days he came home later than usual was the same dates and time that coincide with her number. So that night I grabbed my husbands cell phone and the call log and all texts had been deleted!! I remember saying something to him maybe 6 months prior, "how can you not delete those texts after you are done"? ...... "It would drive, me crazy to have to go back through all of them to keep important ones and delete the others when you can do that right after your done texting, once". At the time he had said, "doesn't bother me at all". If it really didn't bother him to have the texts, why all of the sudden are they all deleted? I then remembered that he had mentioned something about going to "study" with Trent this coming Friday so I went to look on the calendar and it said (in scribbles, hardly legible), " Trent, Amanda (the 3rd person of his group), Anne and me, Applebees" (remember, it was on a friday)!!!! R U Kidding Me?! When he asked about it, he said, "do you care if Trent and I study, there is nothing on the calendar"?!!!! Never mentioned the 2 women, why not?? That is "lying" by omission!!

After that I wanted to have a "civil" conversation about my concerns but it ended up with me screaming at him. It to me flashes "emotional affair"! Now we have been fighting and disagreeing since then (over 2 months) because like I said above, "he is black and white" so you either had an affair or you didn't and he didn't because he didn't not have sex with her. He didn't "lie" he had written on the calendar that the two others would be there. I pointed out the "Milady" thing and he said, "I would be concerned if I heard someone say something similar to you". In the 1 and only text I saw, she called him sweetie, "he says, "they are not "pet names", everyone calls each other things like that. "Really??, Everyone calls each other things like that?? I have never heard you call one of our friends "Milady" and I have never called one of our friends "sweetie". I asked him questions about her and him and he refuses to answering anything when he is unable to "omit" anything. He says, "I am not answering anything because you would not believe me anyway, right?" It has just been getting really ugly and I truly am leaving out a whole lot of details, I know that with the length of of this, your probably thinking, "really"? but I am. He had been cheated on by his first wife right before their 9 year anniversary, we will be married 11 years in July and she had sex with his friend and did like 6months of investigating crap before she would admit that they had been having sex (she with the "new" guy and him....yukk!!). He wanted to go to counseling and make the marriage work but she didn't want to, she wanted to be with his friend). I told him after hearing that that I would not ever agree to do that.... if you are not adult enough to get out of the marriage or to talk with your spouse before having sex with someone else you will never get that second chance with me. He of course says, "I would never do to anyone what she did to me, that was the worst feeling I have ever had in my life"! Now I am accusing him of lying and having an emotional affair and he of course did not lie even though he left out that there would be two other women because he wrote everything on the calendar and he didn't have sex with her so no affair. I said, "of course you didn't have sex, you had yet to go out that night, the 4 of you. Where do you think your relationship would have gone that night after the fast pace of the relationship you had with her (5 texts a month to texts and calls every day and a "date" set up)? It would have gone no where, we were going to study and that was it.....really?? a friday night, 2 guys, 2 girls , in a bar with alcohol, yeah, how do you think your first wifes a
"affair" started? "I do not know", he said. I said, "well let me tell you, it started exactly this way!". I did find out later that the other gal decided not to go and because of "me", they didn't get together. To him, I am a crazy person who has depression and he asked if was bi-polar as well (because my emotions were up and down and all over the board...really, where should my emotions be)?!! He had always asked me 20 questions when I would leave or come home and I would get mad and say, "I am not your ex-wife, stop treating me as if I were the one who cheated on you" and I always assumed it was because what he went through. I also never thought he would ever make anyone feel the way she made him feel so I never worried about trust with him (even though he did with me) and look where that got me!! Now the fight/argument.... he didn't have sex, so no affair, he didn't lie, he had it written on the calendar and I never asked if there were going to be anyone else. This is not the first time e had argued about him leaving out details when we talk, he has always been like that and I am sure it was because of his ex but I am not her and I do not deserve to be treated as though I had been the one who did that to him. He remembers what it felt like when she cheated on him and he will "never" admit that he had an affair (no matter what the "affair" is called)....it is not what he went through. I am so hurt and he is acting as though nothing happened and I am making a big deal out of nothing and still to this day he will not tell me any details about the emails, phone calls or texts (that were never done in front of me...she new his schedule) because "I wouldn't believe him". He had sent me the final text and email between the two to prove that he was not going to have any contact with her anymore because it bothered me so much and in the text and email, he "omitted/deleted" everything else, I asked about it and I got nothing.
 

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Hi 02needadvice.If you break this up you'll probably get more advice.Just edit it into smaller paragraphs with the enter key as its hard for some to read a wall of text.
 

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Well yes break it up a little but for now I can say that he should read the book Not Just Friends hopefully that will open his eyes a little. You also need to tell him that you have sacrificed a lot to get him through school and for him to take advantage of that trust to live a separate life away from the family is disrespectful. I would also call the other members of the group and talk to them about it find out what the hell is going on. It would not hurt to contact her husband and talk to him see if he likes his wife calling your husband sweetie. One of the problems is that you have not shed any light on this instead you are keeping it between just you two, it is time to start pulling in others to help you figure this out and that include her husband and the group. Plus lay specific boundaries with him.


1: No more just relaxing downstairs while you work you ass off upstairs.

2: No more study cave time take the tv out and he leaves his phone upstairs. He should not need either to study.

3: If they want to study they can come over to your place and study downstairs.

4: No more off time contact with her. NO TEXTS. NO DELETING TEXTS.


All this is contingent on him seeing that what he is doing is wrong you need to break this think open and let daylight into it the only way to do that is to confront the others in this.
 

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Sounds like he has an alternate life without you in it.

You were selfless to offer so much time and privacy for his school work. He obviously took advantage of your good nature.
 

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Hello everyone, this is the first time I have ever posted anything online so I am not sure if I am in the right area in this site but I really need opinions and would greatly appreciate any you would have....I talk a lot so this may be pretty long but I will try my best to keep it on the shorter end :D

Here is a "little" background before I start. My husband decided to go back to school about two years ago and I was so happy for him and proud of him. All of his classes for this are done online, maybe a handful of times did he have to drive into school and the last two months of school require him to stay in another city for class (coming home on the weekends) and then it is graduation.

Ever since he started school he took on a whole lot of classes to get done in two years, so he basically lived in our basement 24/7 coming up to eat, sleep, ****, shower and shave.

He found a few people (he had classes that had requested you to purchase a camera and skype with your group) that he got close with, "older people like us", he says, "those who are more wanting to get schooling done and not "party" on mommy and daddy's money".

Those few people, 3 guys (including him) and one girl had they decided to stick together throughout the whole 2 years because they wanted the same degree so why not take the same classes and work together (makes sense to me).

One of the guys they decided to kick out because he would never pull his weight in the group when it came to "home work" so, now down to 2 guys 1 girl (all either married or has a significant other for a lot of years and have children).

Okay here it goes...Right before finals (about January 2013) my husband mentions this gal "Anne" and how her and her husband have 10 kids between them, previous relationships I am assuming but he thought it to be rare so he wanted to share it with me.

For a couple of weeks after telling me about her he tells me about how her youngest daughter may have a major medical problem that could be deadly (rare cancer).

Having 4 kids I couldn't imagine what she was going through, we talked about her often and I felt so bad for her. I asked him a week or two later how she was doing because he hadn't said anything about her in a while and he said, "they happened to be totally wrong, after extensive testing she happens to be okay, blah blah blah."

Then I was downstairs in his "school man cave" because I have a "salon" down there and I needed some major waxing when I over heard my husband say, "well what do you think? Her group "flaked" out on her, do you care if she joins our group? I have been talking a lot with her and she is pretty cool and she needs a group, why not ours?"

I think nothing of it, he is at school and I do not want to interrupt to ask what that was about, so I let it go. a couple of weeks later my husband asks me, "do you care if Trent (the other guy in the group of 3) and I study on Friday, there is nothing on the calendar"? I said, "I don't care, but write it on the calendar so if something comes up, I do not plan anything that night (someone has to watch the kids)".

All along, I do not see my husband but for when he is eating (which he usually does downstairs now) or going to bed and it is taking a toll on our relationship because for almost two years I am keeping the kids away and/or occupied so dad can get done with his school work, I am doing everything that needs to be done around the house, everything (for kids and house)!

I am depressed and getting sick of my minotunous life but I have only 6 months left and my husband will be done with school and we can get back to "normal". My husband of course is very happy which makes things so much worse for me.

I have also been told by my kids (a lot in the year and a half) that dad/hubby wasn't doing homework, he was watching TV or chatting on the phone (not about school), pretty much taking advantage of me and his "FREE TIME" so I am just plain angry! I asked him about it and he says, "I was taking a break from school". I say, "don't you think you should take a break with your kids so I can have a break"?

Soon after, on a Monday morning, he walks into the house (as I was about to walk down to our main level (so not in the basement, mancave) and he is chatting "sweetly" to someone on the phone.

I back up into our room and listen, after a few minutes he says, "alright Milady, I better let you go, I am home now and I should try and get something done".

MILADY!? Really?! (more background) my husband is usually downstairs or sitting in his car finishing his phone calls before he comes in, I am pretty sure he thought he was the only one home this morning so no need to sit in the car to finish talking).

Instead of freaking out in front of him I wanted to find out if there was any other reason to be angry at him (besides him calling another woman "Milady" so I went online (honestly this was the first time I had ever done this) to our mobile phone company site to see if it would tell me who he was talking to (it doesn't tell you, just a number), on the site it said all I had to do was click on the "number listed" and it would give me a list of every time they talked, how long, how many texts, when and if he initiated these conversations (if he called her or she called him, he text her or she text him), so I clicked on the number ~ no texts in Jan and there were 4 calls totally 15min ~ in Feb there were 25 texts back and forth and 120 mins of talking together (WTHell?!),

in March there were 50 texts back and forth with 70min of talking to each other and in April which at the time I only had 3 days that I could access (the 3rd, 4th and 5th) and already they were at 58min of talking back and forth just on the 4th & 5th, two days and 8 texts on the 5th!!! This number I had been searching was the number that he had been talking to when he walked into the house and ended his conversation using "Milady".

A friend of mine called the number and guess who it was? It was "Anne" the gal with 10 kids. The one my hubby got me to feel sorry for.

All of the texts back and forth and the calls back and forth were either when he was on his way out every morning, on his way home every morning (between 5am and 7am) or at night when I was asleep!!

Those times he stayed outside to chat (in the driveway) and the days he came home later than usual was the same dates and time that coincide with her number. So that night I grabbed my husbands cell phone and the call log and all texts had been deleted!!

I remember saying something to him maybe 6 months prior, "how can you not delete those texts after you are done"? ......

"It would drive, me crazy to have to go back through all of them to keep important ones and delete the others when you can do that right after your done texting, once". At the time he had said, "doesn't bother me at all".

If it really didn't bother him to have the texts, why all of the sudden are they all deleted? I then remembered that he had mentioned something about going to "study" with Trent this coming Friday so I went to look on the calendar and it said (in scribbles, hardly legible), " Trent, Amanda (the 3rd person of his group), Anne and me, Applebees" (remember, it was on a friday)!!!! R U Kidding Me?!

When he asked about it, he said, "do you care if Trent and I study, there is nothing on the calendar"?!!!! Never mentioned the 2 women, why not?? That is "lying" by omission!!

After that I wanted to have a "civil" conversation about my concerns but it ended up with me screaming at him. It to me flashes "emotional affair"! Now we have been fighting and disagreeing since then (over 2 months) because like I said above, "he is black and white" so you either had an affair or you didn't and he didn't because he didn't not have sex with her.

He didn't "lie" he had written on the calendar that the two others would be there. I pointed out the "Milady" thing and he said, "I would be concerned if I heard someone say something similar to you".

In the 1 and only text I saw, she called him sweetie, "he says, "they are not "pet names", everyone calls each other things like that. "Really??, Everyone calls each other things like that?? I have never heard you call one of our friends "Milady" and I have never called one of our friends "sweetie".

I asked him questions about her and him and he refuses to answering anything when he is unable to "omit" anything. He says, "I am not answering anything because you would not believe me anyway, right?"

It has just been getting really ugly and I truly am leaving out a whole lot of details, I know that with the length of of this, your probably thinking, "really"? but I am.

He had been cheated on by his first wife right before their 9 year anniversary, we will be married 11 years in July and she had sex with his friend and did like 6months of investigating crap before she would admit that they had been having sex (she with the "new" guy and him....yukk!!).

He wanted to go to counseling and make the marriage work but she didn't want to, she wanted to be with his friend). I told him after hearing that that I would not ever agree to do that.... if you are not adult enough to get out of the marriage or to talk with your spouse before having sex with someone else you will never get that second chance with me. He of course says, "I would never do to anyone what she did to me, that was the worst feeling I have ever had in my life"!

Now I am accusing him of lying and having an emotional affair and he of course did not lie even though he left out that there would be two other women because he wrote everything on the calendar and he didn't have sex with her so no affair.

I said, "of course you didn't have sex, you had yet to go out that night, the 4 of you. Where do you think your relationship would have gone that night after the fast pace of the relationship you had with her (5 texts a month to texts and calls every day and a "date" set up)?

It would have gone no where, we were going to study and that was it.....really?? a friday night, 2 guys, 2 girls , in a bar with alcohol, yeah, how do you think your first wifes a "affair" started? "I do not know", he said.

I said, "well let me tell you, it started exactly this way!". I did find out later that the other gal decided not to go and because of "me", they didn't get together.

To him, I am a crazy person who has depression and he asked if was bi-polar as well (because my emotions were up and down and all over the board...really, where should my emotions be)?!!

He had always asked me 20 questions when I would leave or come home and I would get mad and say, "I am not your ex-wife, stop treating me as if I were the one who cheated on you" and I always assumed it was because what he went through.

I also never thought he would ever make anyone feel the way she made him feel so I never worried about trust with him (even though he did with me) and look where that got me!!

Now the fight/argument.... he didn't have sex, so no affair, he didn't lie, he had it written on the calendar and I never asked if there were going to be anyone else.

This is not the first time e had argued about him leaving out details when we talk, he has always been like that and I am sure it was because of his ex but I am not her and I do not deserve to be treated as though I had been the one who did that to him.

He remembers what it felt like when she cheated on him and he will "never" admit that he had an affair (no matter what the "affair" is called)....it is not what he went through.

I am so hurt and he is acting as though nothing happened and I am making a big deal out of nothing and still to this day he will not tell me any details about the emails, phone calls or texts (that were never done in front of me...she new his schedule) because "I wouldn't believe him".

He had sent me the final text and email between the two to prove that he was not going to have any contact with her anymore because it bothered me so much and in the text and email, he "omitted/deleted" everything else, I asked about it and I got nothing.
I hope you don't mind but I used my day job experience as an editor to do a quick edit of your post.:)

Your husband, above all others, should know the dangers of his type of situation.

He is cheating. Even if it is not a PA.
 

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An emotional affair can be just as devastating as a physical one. He is devoting time and energy to another woman, even more heartbreaking since he has so little to give anyone.

My only advise is to get the book "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. Hopefully after reading it he will realize the damage he has caused in your marriage. He has to cease all contact with her. And if its at all possible you may want to find out if those text messages can be retrieved - so you know how far down the rabbit hole he has really gone.

There are a couple of threads about gathering evidence and info about backing up phones etc. I recommend you read as many threads as you can; you will soon recognize the "script".

At this point he isn't showing remorse, so you can't begin to heal.
 

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The things he is saying to you - "Im not talking about this, you wont believe me anyway" and "are you bipolar" and the "crazy wife" is CLASSIC gaslighting. These are very typical things for a person who IS having an EA to say.

Time for him to choose you or her. Its really that simple, isnt it? He knows this relationship is out of line, thats why he stopped talking about her. Time for NC. Complete and total NO CONTACT. If you allow this to continue it will get worse.
Its very concerning that he is lying to you about her. VERY. Those who have nothing to hide- hide nothing. AND NO DELETING. None. He is a married man and this isnt Highschool. He can study with another guy or alone. Time to put the big boy pants on.

Good luck. Stand your ground. Remember- the thing cheaters do better than anything- LIE.
 

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I really feel for you...instead of helping you heal, your husband is continuing to be deceitful, manipulative, and trying to make you feel crazy. You're not. I don't think it's a bad idea to contact the OW's husband and see if he can find out anymore information on his end. Go into detective mode. He's not sorry for it, so why would he really cut contact? He really does sound manipulative, and he has been taking advantage of you big time. I agree with PPs about new rules and the book rec.
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Ok, so, because HE doesn't feel the way he did when his first wife cheated, that means it's NOT an affair? I'd ask if his logic went out the window, but.....

So, here's what's gonna happen:
1. Class time is class time. Period. He has no reason to NOT spend time with family when he is not doing things related to his CLASSWORK. IOW, he has no reason to chat up this chick outside of class time/classwork related activities.

2. Next time he asks about studying with Trent...ask who all will be there. If he says Anne, tell him no. He, of course, has the option to agree with you or go anyway. If he LIES about who is there, well, then you have him on that.

3. If it were me, I'd be making impromptu visits to his "school cave" during his class time/study time. Which reminds me... WHY does he need to meet up with them to study if they're able to do it all online/skype anyway? You know the answer to that, obviously. Just needed to voice it is all.

It took awhile for my husband to recognize his own EA. He didn't even want to acknowledge it for what it was. But printouts of what an EA is helped in that respect. The book "Not Just Friends" would have been a lifesaver back then! However, I didn't know about TAM til we had (mostly) gone through all the issues with it.

Stand your ground. Don't back down. If it's not an EA, then he should have no argument against dropping her from the group/losing her number.
 

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Also, 02needadvice, I have been on the "other side" of an EA. He most definitely is in one. His behavior, as has been mentioned, follows a script. Just as my husband's did, and just as mine did. You're not alone in this. We're here for you.
 
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