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He did quit drinking on his own. The exact moment I confronted him about the affair. He is a very empty person, it’s actually sad to see. I have spent the last 18 months almost acting like I was the one who had the affair. I didn’t want him to relapse so I was as loving and nurturing as possible. That’s my nature anyway so it wasn’t hard. It was not reciprocated and he just took and took but rarely returned the same kind of kindness. He always told me thank you for the things I was doing but it was hurtful. I could ramble forever but yes, I could see at times the person I thought I feel in love with. I don’t know if that person actually ever existed though, I may have conjured him up in my mind because that’s what I wanted. I don’t think I can help him, I am not sure he wants to be helped.
I guess it is no coincidence that the similarities between an alcoholic and a narcissist are startling. Which comes first? Is he an narcissistic alcoholic? or an alcoholic narcissist?
 

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Discussion Starter #82
He did quit drinking on his own. The exact moment I confronted him about the affair. He is a very empty person, it’s actually sad to see. I have spent the last 18 months almost acting like I was the one who had the affair. I didn’t want him to relapse so I was as loving and nurturing as possible. That’s my nature anyway so it wasn’t hard. It was not reciprocated and he just took and took but rarely returned the same kind of kindness. He always told me thank you for the things I was doing but it was hurtful. I could ramble forever but yes, I could see at times the person I thought I feel in love with. I don’t know if that person actually ever existed though, I may have conjured him up in my mind because that’s what I wanted. I don’t think I can help him, I am not sure he wants to be helped.
I guess it is no coincidence that the similarities between an alcoholic and a narcissist are startling. Which comes first? Is he an narcissistic alcoholic? or an alcoholic narcissist?
I actually don’t think he is a true narcissist. I believe that both of his parents are narcissistic especially his father, textbook!!! I think he was taught to have narcissistic tendencies. Self entitled but not about everything, it’s hard to explain. I think his emotions were so unimportant to his parents as a child that he actually just turned them off. The only time he shows emotion is through anger or impatience, never excitement. Happy but not outwardly shown. Never gets emotional except when watching movies. It’s so complicated to understand, Ivthink that’s why I always find myself making excuses for him. He was not deprived financially growing up but there were definitely thinks lacking elsewhere.
 

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Discussion Starter #83
He seems much happier not drinking but of course I am super skeptical. We were at his work holiday party and he ate a truffle and then had a panicked moment because he thought it had alcohol in it. When I asked him why it freaked him out he became he knows if he ever drinks again I am out. I went through years of his drinking and I’ll never do it again. I don’t have a solid plan but I’ve definitely been giving it thought. I hate alcohol it’s so destructive!! The worst part is when he told his dad he was an alcoholic and had been sober, at the point only for a few months. His dad basically told him he knew many alcoholics and he definitely was not one of them. Then he’ll ask him “so still not drinking?“. 🙄 Geez, thanks!!! Now I know why I never bothered to reach out to his family for support.
Most people think that an alcoholic could only be a down and out bum sleeping on the sidewalk.
Look up high functioning alcoholic. There are many of them, but unless they get clean, it is a matter of time.
Yes, definitely. He was a mess at home not falling down drunk just irritated and angry. He’d be fine at first, guess he was still drunk from his stop on the way home. It was mainly the next day before he started drinking. He would have extended times where he seemed better but it’d always go back to the same old thing. He’s 18 months sober and I don’t see that anymore but he’s not happy.
 

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Let me just say, I’ve gotten more insight here than I did in the many hours of therapy not to mention thousands of dollars!!!
LOL...I could have told you how worthless therapy is years ago. I've never seen any worth in it at all. But everyone loves to 'recommend' it on message boards to the point where it's just a cliche, stock answer, now.
 

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Let me just say, I’ve gotten more insight here than I did in the many hours of therapy not to mention thousands of dollars!!!
LOL...I could have told you how worthless therapy is years ago. I've never seen any worth in it at all. But everyone loves to 'recommend' it on message boards to the point where it's just a cliche, stock answer, now.
I was just hoping for a mediator basically but this wacko tried to “diagnosis” my husband with Aspergers during one of our sessions. First of all she’d wasn’t even qualified to do so!!! Her second red flag was telling me I’d deal with it much better if I sought out medication! We had some words and I am a very laid back calm person. I definitely think there are good therapist out there but finding them is a challenge. Its too costly to just keep jumping around because it takes a few sessions to get a feel for them.
 

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So on a other thread you say you're gonna stay, if he had met you grounds your on your way. But again nothing will change unless he wants to see change he's dragging his tail to get to you. And it's working you are now self doubting,

Because you love him, accept his unhappiness as a cost to the wounds he has caused your marriage.
 

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So on a other thread you say you're gonna stay, if he had met you grounds your on your way. But again nothing will change unless he wants to see change he's dragging his tail to get to you. And it's working you are now self doubting,

Because you love him, accept his unhappiness as a cost to the wounds he has caused your marriage.
It’s all just a big mess.
 

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Manic_mama

did you see my post ?

much similar happened to me and my wife was THE most honest, trustworthy person and .... she changed. I have no other way to put it. PEOPLE CHANGE and its on them, not you, me or anyone else

its my experience over the last 14-16 months ... lying becomes a default. That's what they do because they're going to do what they want to do and piss on you, your kids, family everyone. They'll destroy everything to get what they want :(

Not a pretty picture I'm painting but it aint pretty being in it
 

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Manic_mama

did you see my post ?

much similar happened to me and my wife was THE most honest, trustworthy person and .... she changed. I have no other way to put it. PEOPLE CHANGE and its on them, not you, me or anyone else

its my experience over the last 14-16 months ... lying becomes a default. That's what they do because they're going to do what they want to do and piss on you, your kids, family everyone. They'll destroy everything to get what they want <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/frown.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Frown" >:)</a>

Not a pretty picture I'm painting but it aint pretty being in it
It’s so devastating, I am so sorry!! I had 100% trust in my husband. He talked about this woman often but nothing that was to raise suspicion, general stuff. He did always talk very highly of her but I thought it was because she was just a good friend/colleague. My own mother who absolutely adored my husband even asked me if I was bothered by their relationship!!! That’s how blind and trusting I was!!! Do people change or were they always this way but we just didn’t see it? The last 26 years of my life have just been flipped upside down.😔
 

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So, what are you going to do now? Your future is in your hands. What do you want to do?

I do recommend finding a good IC counselor for you. I recommend it because I was lucky to find a good one when I needed it. There should be a good one around the area you live at.
 

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So, what are you going to do now? Your future is in your hands. What do you want to do?

I do recommend finding a good IC counselor for you. I recommend it because I was lucky to find a good one when I needed it. There should be a good one around the area you live at.
After my last counseling experience I just am not very eager to go that route again. What next, that’s what I am working on.
 

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I actually don’t think he is a true narcissist. I believe that both of his parents are narcissistic especially his father, textbook!!! I think he was taught to have narcissistic tendencies. Self entitled but not about everything, it’s hard to explain. I think his emotions were so unimportant to his parents as a child that he actually just turned them off. The only time he shows emotion is through anger or impatience, never excitement. Happy but not outwardly shown. Never gets emotional except when watching movies. It’s so complicated to understand, Ivthink that’s why I always find myself making excuses for him. He was not deprived financially growing up but there were definitely thinks lacking elsewhere.
An emotionally deprived childhood is also a foundation for narcissism
 

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Discussion Starter #95
I actually don’t think he is a true narcissist. I believe that both of his parents are narcissistic especially his father, textbook!!! I think he was taught to have narcissistic tendencies. Self entitled but not about everything, it’s hard to explain. I think his emotions were so unimportant to his parents as a child that he actually just turned them off. The only time he shows emotion is through anger or impatience, never excitement. Happy but not outwardly shown. Never gets emotional except when watching movies. It’s so complicated to understand, Ivthink that’s why I always find myself making excuses for him. He was not deprived financially growing up but there were definitely thinks lacking elsewhere.
An emotionally deprived childhood is also a foundation for narcissism
I am going to look into that a bit deeper,thanks for the insight. I guess I never really thought about the cause of narcissism.
 

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Maniac-mama

let me guess - and tell me how far off I am

you love him, you love what you had ... you remember all the great things your relationship was. You fought hard, way beyond what anyone else would have. you realize/know he doesn't really want you, but you can't keep from having hope he'll wake up and realize it today. you feel he knows you like nobody else and if he doesn't love you, who's going to? how are you going to survive being alone and all the little things you're going to miss? Not that you can't, you know you can ... its just a daunting thought right ?

I am there. Right now, I am right there. I can't tell you how to proceed because I don't know myself. I CAN tell you that I realized 2 days ago my wife is gone. The beautiful person she used to be died, replaced with someone who didn't love me or our marriage enough to not cheat. It was a horrible thing she did too, months of lies, betrayal with a 21 year old kid literally half her own age. Your husband didn't love you enough to not do what he did. Period. Hard to swallow but its the truth.

So, realize that love is gone, that beautiful thing you saw and was in, is gone. You didn't destroy it, he did. Your marriage failed and it wasn't by your hands. Everyone could have done better, like I told my wife yes, I contributed to having a less than perfect marriage and I can see how we both had equal blame but listen to this ....... this is YOUR marriage. This is HIS marriage. If you don't like it, CHANGE IT. My wife didn't, she'd rather damage her soul by having an affair, committing a horrible sin that damaged every relationship she had and she knew it, wanted it, liked it and did it over and over every day it was happening.

your husband did too - and people who do that ? they have to change their souls to go that far down the rabbit hole

I'm getting out. My 18 year old son came home after a ball game last night and wanted to know what was happening and I shared with him, without details. He asked if she came back to me and begged me back could I take her and I said no. He said but if she'd do anything and I said no son, I'm sorry. She's done too much damage. That was as hurtful a conversation as I've ever had. He doesn't want to lose his mom and dad .... I didn't choose this. YOU did not choose this either.

do you see what I'm saying ?
 

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Maniac-mama

let me guess - and tell me how far off I am

you love him, you love what you had ... you remember all the great things your relationship was. You fought hard, way beyond what anyone else would have. you realize/know he doesn't really want you, but you can't keep from having hope he'll wake up and realize it today. you feel he knows you like nobody else and if he doesn't love you, who's going to? how are you going to survive being alone and all the little things you're going to miss? Not that you can't, you know you can ... its just a daunting thought right ?

I am there. Right now, I am right there. I can't tell you how to proceed because I don't know myself. I CAN tell you that I realized 2 days ago my wife is gone. The beautiful person she used to be died, replaced with someone who didn't love me or our marriage enough to not cheat. It was a horrible thing she did too, months of lies, betrayal with a 21 year old kid literally half her own age. Your husband didn't love you enough to not do what he did. Period. Hard to swallow but its the truth.

So, realize that love is gone, that beautiful thing you saw and was in, is gone. You didn't destroy it, he did. Your marriage failed and it wasn't by your hands. Everyone could have done better, like I told my wife yes, I contributed to having a less than perfect marriage and I can see how we both had equal blame but listen to this ....... this is YOUR marriage. This is HIS marriage. If you don't like it, CHANGE IT. My wife didn't, she'd rather damage her soul by having an affair, committing a horrible sin that damaged every relationship she had and she knew it, wanted it, liked it and did it over and over every day it was happening.

your husband did too - and people who do that ? they have to change their souls to go that far down the rabbit hole

I'm getting out. My 18 year old son came home after a ball game last night and wanted to know what was happening and I shared with him, without details. He asked if she came back to me and begged me back could I take her and I said no. He said but if she'd do anything and I said no son, I'm sorry. She's done too much damage. That was as hurtful a conversation as I've ever had. He doesn't want to lose his mom and dad .... I didn't choose this. YOU did not choose this either.

do you see what I'm saying ?
Similar, yes. Betrayal is a hurtful destructive act like no other. This has by far been the worst experience of my life. 😔
 

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someone you give yourself to 100% and after years and years of commitment they abandon everything and turn their backs on family ......... for those of us who are loyal and trustworthy, its unfathomable
 
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