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Discussion Starter #21
How did that go (talking with her husband)?

Also, what has intimacy with your husband been like, historically? Prior, during and now? Was he looking for something that he wasn't getting at home? If so, had this been addressed previously via counseling or conversation even?
SERIOUSLY, Cas??!
It’s okay!! My therapist said the same thing!! Actually two different ones. I take no blame for him cheating, non!!! He was a miserable husband that was verbally abusive and emotionally abusive. I did not have sexy with him during that time and he knew exactly why!!!
 

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It’s okay!! My therapist said the same thing!! Actually two different ones. I take no blame for him cheating, non!!! He was a miserable husband that was verbally abusive and emotionally abusive. I did not have sexy with him during that time and he knew exactly why!!!
If he has continued both the verbal and emotional abusiveness, you have no obligation to go for counseling or reconciliation or any other unicorn-like possibility I mentioned. If he's been gradually changing for the better, even if still not-so-great yet, then maybe. But if you've seen change without improvement, if there's nothing to give you hope, then consider an honest discussion with him about the future and the need to move on. Figure out what a few years together "for the kids" actually means, and if that makes sense or not.
 

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Are you staying with your husband because of financial security? Do you work?

I bet your daughters don't have a good image of their dad anyway but them learning their mom has respect for herself could be huge in their lives.

You have a husband that has had an affair, he is not affectionate, he doesn't spend time with his family and has no interest in doing so. He also drinks and works a lot. What kind of marriage is that? And what is it teaching your daughters about loving relationships?

You wanting to stay married to someone like your husband makes absolutely no sense to me.
 

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Also, that marriage counselor was an idiot. Sadly, too many are.
:iagree:

And weird stuff like that from a qualified counsellor is one of the reasons why I never took my counselling qualifications any further than I did.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
I hear you and no offense taken what so ever!!! I know what’s what!! I know he’s not sorry for doing it it was fun, he’s sorry he got caught. He also destroyed his camaraderie at his work because his team can no longer work in a group setting for team building or outings. He did tell his supervisor and asked not to work directly with her anymore. He has been there for 18 years. Screwed his self out of any promotions due to the fact he’d be her supervisor. He messed up so many things.

My mom left a cheater (my father) with three trash bags of belongings and busted her ass her whole life! It was rough at times and we struggled financially. My mom has fought two bouts of cancer and a heat attack with open heart surgery and still works at 73 because she has too!!! My dad was a serial cheater. She’s my hero!!

I do fear my daughters will be disappointed in me. Hell, I am disappointed I didn’t go beat her ass!! I’ve encountered her multiple times since d day but I’ve chosen not to verbally confront her. Via text I told her my true feelings. She’s trash and not worth me stooping to her level. I did tell one friend that is in her PTA so I am sure they all know. Gives me a bit of satisfaction. 😂

I’d love to inform someone at her church but that might be a bit too far!!
I do read into this a small degree of hope. First, he stopped drinking. That's a pretty big thing. Does he have help with this/does he attend AA meetings? Second, his request to not work directly with his former EA partner is actually pretty significant too. As you said, it screwed him out of promotions. It's not nearly as solid as leaving for another place of work entirely, but it's not complete rug sweeping either.

It sounds like you've never had counseling, but realize you should have. It is not too late to try. It may be too late for success, but you won't know if you don't try. You're already thinking you'll be in this "prison" for another 4 years or so? Getting IC and MC going soon won't preclude that option. The hope is that it might bring clarity to your choice, with the slight possibility of reconciliation.
Actually, we were in counseling for over a year! Worst therapist ever!!! Told me the affair was over so I should have No issues with them continuing to work at the same firm. Also told me I needed to get some hobbies and mind my own business!!! Excuse me?!! I am pretty sure my husband entertaining another female is most certainly my business!!! It was bizarre at times but I thought I was just not thinking clearly because I was a mess!! She didn’t really go into anything. She was more interested in my daughters and it annoyed me because she was blaming my oldest daughter For the down fall of our marriage. No Miss therapist lady it was The drinking everyday and spending up to 20 hrs a week in bars on top of working 40-60 hrs a week. Not to mention the hundreds of dollars spent weekly on alcohol and food. I was powerless and it’s sucked. My girls are 22 months apart so for many years I was knee deep in child rearing. My husband said I was an amazing mother so he didn’t want to interfere and mess things up!!! That’s why he stayed away. I will admit I am a great mom and even though my daughters are teens they’re pretty darn amazing too. ❤

I accidentally discovered the texts between them as he and I were getting ready to go to a friends house for a 50th wedding anniversary party. I had never known the password to his phone but I thought it was mainly to keep our daughters out of it. For some reason the night before he handed me his phone while driving and told me to check something giving me his password. It was on the table the next morning and I honestly don’t remember what I picked it up for, it was something trivial like a recipe or directions. My phone was in the bedroom charging. I honestly can’t remember. When I unlocked it it was open to their text exchange and the first thing I saw was a photo of her sitting at her desk in a skirt. it was taken so you could see up it. Shocking is not even the right word! A bit of sexy banter between the two of them. So naturally I took a seat and went through the entire thread. It devastating!!!

When I confronted him very soon after he was basically speechless except for blaming me for the affair. I lost my **** in our driveway!!! He quit drinking immediately!!! His choice, hasn’t had a drink in 18 months. He doesn’t use AA or anything like that. Sorry for the rant!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Also, that marriage counselor was an idiot. Sadly, too many are.
<a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/iagree.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Iagree" >:)</a>

And weird stuff like that from a qualified counsellor is one of the reasons why I never took my counselling qualifications any further than I did.
I have my Bachelors and spent many years as a sexual assault counselor so I am familiar with the process. It’s exactly why I never went any further either. I am sure there are amazing ones out there. The three we tried were not. One we stayed with for over a year. It was more destructive than anything.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Are you staying with your husband because of financial security? Do you work?

I bet your daughters don't have a good image of their dad anyway but them learning their mom has respect for herself could be huge in their lives.

You have a husband that has had an affair, he is not affectionate, he doesn't spend time with his family and has no interest in doing so. He also drinks and works a lot. What kind of marriage is that? And what is it teaching your daughters about loving relationships?

You wanting to stay married to someone like your husband makes absolutely no sense to me.
He no longer drinks and only goes out once a week if even that to play pool. He does work a lot but that depends on the current project he is working on.

I do not currently work but to put him through college there were times I worked three jobs at a time. I earned my keep for damn sure!!!! I am a homemaker, like meals from scratch, that kind of stuff. It’s what I enjoy doing and I am available for my daughters for activities, appointments etc. We have no family in the area it’s just us. So no grandma or grandpa to help out. He makes enough that I don’t have to work but I helped get us here. Plus if I wanted to leave I could. He’d help and I am employable, it’d just be difficult. I have four years until my oldest goes to college. He’s at least manageable now even if it’s not ideal.

You’re right it’s a ****ty example for my daughters but I didn’t choose it to be this way. I hope they’ll see some day I did the best I could given my circumstances.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
It’s okay!! My therapist said the same thing!! Actually two different ones. I take no blame for him cheating, non!!! He was a miserable husband that was verbally abusive and emotionally abusive. I did not have sexy with him during that time and he knew exactly why!!!
If he has continued both the verbal and emotional abusiveness, you have no obligation to go for counseling or reconciliation or any other unicorn-like possibility I mentioned. If he's been gradually changing for the better, even if still not-so-great yet, then maybe. But if you've seen change without improvement, if there's nothing to give you hope, then consider an honest discussion with him about the future and the need to move on. Figure out what a few years together "for the kids" actually means, and if that makes sense or not.
He definitely has made drastic improvements but in my eyes it what he should have been doing before. So no award for not drinking and being at home with your family. He needs to leave his current place of employment because she still works there in the same department of only about 8 people so it used to be a tight knit group. Gotta work on empathy and boundaries too!!!
 

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So exactly what kind of advice are you searching for in the situation at hand? What kind of help or answers are you looking for? I came back to read your replies and I am kind of getting confused while I read on. You have made it clear that even though he has quit drinking, it doesn't matter because of his drinking habits in the past. You have made it clear that even though he works a few feet from this woman, you are not leaving. What exactly is it that you want? I understand that you worked hard and enjoy your stay at home mom status but what happens after your girls both go off to college in 4 years? Are you going to try and work it out with him? Or are you going to face it in 4 years and go back to work and make it on your own? Did you just need to vent?
 

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Everyone needs to vent and it's okay. But I'm just trying to get an understanding of how we can help and what answers you seek.
 

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He definitely has made drastic improvements but in my eyes it what he should have been doing before. So no award for not drinking and being at home with your family. He needs to leave his current place of employment because she still works there in the same department of only about 8 people so it used to be a tight knit group. Gotta work on empathy and boundaries too!!!
Sorry for the questions coming up, because some of them are personal-

- Is there any spark left to rekindle? Could you see any chance of falling in love with him again?
- Were the earlier counseling sessions while he was still drinking? If so, do you think it possible that counseling might be more transparent and more effective today than it was back then?
- You said you were a sexual abuse counselor yourself. Is there a chance you cut the MC too much slack out of respect? That things would be different this time around?
- We know why you would like to leave the marriage. What reasons would your husband want to stay married?
- Is the changing-jobs thing a litmus test? If he did that, you'd invest your time & effort into giving him another chance?
- If the choice for him was to change jobs but it would require a pay cut significant enough that it would hamper your ability to move out, would that be ok?

And finally, most come to a place like TAM with an idea in mind, an outcome they hope to see support for. If so, what is/was it?

Thanks-
 

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He no longer drinks and only goes out once a week if even that to play pool. He does work a lot but that depends on the current project he is working on.

I do not currently work but to put him through college there were times I worked three jobs at a time. I earned my keep for damn sure!!!! I am a homemaker, like meals from scratch, that kind of stuff. It’s what I enjoy doing and I am available for my daughters for activities, appointments etc. We have no family in the area it’s just us. So no grandma or grandpa to help out. He makes enough that I don’t have to work but I helped get us here. Plus if I wanted to leave I could. He’d help and I am employable, it’d just be difficult. I have four years until my oldest goes to college. He’s at least manageable now even if it’s not ideal.

You’re right it’s a ****ty example for my daughters but I didn’t choose it to be this way. I hope they’ll see some day I did the best I could given my circumstances.
I understand you completely.

I'm also a homemaker. I work about 10 hrs a week. I'm available for my kids, I like to cook from scratch, volunteer at their school, etc.

For many years we didn't have family close by. It was just the 4 of us. We moved closer to his family but they have their own lives. After living away for so long, we are used to figuring things out on our own.

My mother was also a homemaker, she still is. I don't understand why my parents are still together. My dad also had an affair. Their marriage is full of issues, and my mom stayed with him (financial stability.) I wish I could go back in time and tell her that things are not going to get better.

I appreciate all the sacrifices my parents made for my siblings and I. But I really hate they sacrificed their happiness as a couple.

As an insurance policy, (because you don't know what the future holds)why don't you find out what you are entitled in case of a divorce? (Spousal support, child support.)What about finding a part time job? I know it's scary, I know it's getting out of your comfort zone, but I think it can shake things up in your household. It can show your husband you are serious about changes needed in you and not waiting for him to support you one hundred percent.

You have options. No one is forcing you to stay with him. You are choosing to stay with him.
 

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I’d love to inform someone at her church but that might be a bit too far!!
Tell the church leaders!

If she is a Bible school teacher, as a parent, I would want to know that this cheating hypocrite is the one trying to teach my kids lessons about morality.

I don’t think known people who are immoral should be in a position to lead anything bible based (personal opinion).

If you are gonna preach it, be doing your best to live it. Nobody’s perfect, but most married moms are not masterbating in the back of their coworkers car to relieve stress, then going to teach bible school. Seriously! Barf.
 

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@Manic_mama, you have been dealing with this over the last 18 months, I feel for you. Things will never be the same no matter what you decide to do.
Most here including myself would say dump his ass. However, it is your decision alone. Because you appear to be acquiescing on this incident, he will not be remorseful, why should he really? There have been absolutely no consequences from your end.

You can still implement a number of things even if you choose to stay

1. Do the 180 on him completely
2. Go and get counseling/therapy for yourself, forget him and maybe therapy for your girls if necessary, make him foot the bill, let him know the damage he has caused. Don't hide it.

3. One big mistake you are making is not to expose both of them to the church, friends, family, etc. Go ahead and do it. I do not know why you feel you must cover for him and her and enable them both. Your kids sound big enough to handle it. Shame can do a lot to resolve issues and let people confront their own reality, esp when they are not remorseful. Hiding and covering this is only enabling this behavior.
As a Christian, you are called to admonish and expose this sort of thing not hide it as it makes you complicit. It is completely wrong to allow an adulterer (OW) to teach bible, talk about the wolf amongst the sheep. Why are you scared?

4. I would now start to build up an escape fund. If he is not doing anything to make things right, you know where you stand. Stand to squirrel away money, buy your own place, etc (are you working?). A day will come when the kids leave and you need to be financially independent and able to walk out the door, if you so choose. Ensure you make that an option for yourself.

5. Go back to college and get more qualifications if that is useful to you. I did that after years of being a housewife, now I work full time and still working on the money situation, though I might never leave as circumstances have changed somewhat but I know that is always an option and it gives me satisfaction. He knows it too. it is about taking back your power in the marriage. Sometimes the balance of power tends to reside in one side (the H) so the spouse feels entitled to do whatever they want including commit adultery.

6. Keep all evidence of their affair. Ask him to write an outline of the timelines, where they went, etc
Then request he write a no-contact letter to her and insist he leaves this job or you will report both of them to HR. If she is less senior put pressure on her via her H to leave the job.

7. Ask him to leave your bedroom and sleep in the spare room, I hope you already did this.
8. Keep your conversation about household matters, work through your feelings with a counsellor. Don't discuss this with him.

9. Please go and see a lawyer. Maybe when you see the options, your lives would be much happier without him. It seems like he doesn't engage much with the kids anyhow. There is no shame in getting rid of a low down cheater who contributes little to the family life. This was not a one night stand but a continuous affair over a long period of time. Remember that.
 

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I do worry about that and the fact that I allowed him to disrespect me by continually to work with her. They no longer work on projects together but they sit 50 ft from each other!!! He says they don’t talk but I don’t know. I do believe it didn’t get physical but only because she wouldn’t allow it. If she’d initiated it I am sure he wouldn’t have said no. She was the one that suggested they mutually masturbate via text to see who could finish faster. She called it racing. He tried to get her to FaceTime but she wouldn’t do it.
My daughter has four years until she graduates I am content to stay definitely until then.
Sorry but do this is getting intimate, just because it wasn't PIV doesn't mean it was not intimate sexually.
 

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It’s okay!! My therapist said the same thing!! Actually two different ones. I take no blame for him cheating, non!!! He was a miserable husband that was verbally abusive and emotionally abusive. I did not have sexy with him during that time and he knew exactly why!!!
WTF! So he couldn't keep it in his pants because he wasn't getting what at home? Talk about blame-shifting! If she is not meeting him at the door with a big smile and a negligee on, it is her fault. I call bull****! Who wants to be nice to a verbally and emotionally abusive POS not alone sleep with him?

He preferred to be in the pub and engaged with a glass of beer than come home and spend time with his family. After a day at work, it was too much effort to come home to engage. My H was like this. It requires effort to help with dinner, homework, bedtime, extracurricular activities and some H would rather be in the office or the pub. The bottom line there are takers and givers and your WH sounds like a taker. None of this is your fault.

if there was a problem in the marriage, he should have sat you down and talked about it, not run off to some piece of trash. Oops forgot, that would also require too much effort. After all he is entitled.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
It’s okay!! My therapist said the same thing!! Actually two different ones. I take no blame for him cheating, non!!! He was a miserable husband that was verbally abusive and emotionally abusive. I did not have sexy with him during that time and he knew exactly why!!!
WTF! So he couldn't keep it in his pants because he wasn't getting what at home? Talk about blame-shifting! If she is not meeting him at the door with a big smile and a negligee on, it is her fault. I call bull****! Who wants to be nice to a verbally and emotionally abusive POS not alone sleep with him?

He preferred to be in the pub and engaged with a glass of beer than come home and spend time with his family. After a day at work, it was too much effort to come home to engage. My H was like this. It requires effort to help with dinner, homework, bedtime, extracurricular activities and some H would rather be in the office or the pub. The bottom line there are takers and givers and your WH sounds like a taker. None of this is your fault.

if there was a problem in the marriage, he should have sat you down and talked about it, not run off to some piece of trash. Oops forgot, that would also require too much effort. After all he is entitled.
Thank you, girl!!! I need that validation sometimes and I think that’s exactly why I am here. This is a very heavy thing to carry around. Slap that smile on and pretend everything is okay.

He is most definitely a taker and I am a natural giver. He took extreme advantage of that. I am guilty for allowing him to do so, I made excuses for him. He works hard, he worked hard as a teen and didn’t have that experience like most, he was only 19 when we started dating and we moved in together not real long after. I took on all the responsibility of our daughters, everything. I loved it though being a mom and everything that goes with it was my thing. A partner in crime would have been nice though. He showed up to all the important events even if he slept through most of it. I could never trust him to ever do carpooling because of his drinking, I didn’t trust him.

He told me the ow never *****ed at him and was always there for him. For real???!! She should have been taking care of her young kids and husband instead of mine!!! He had to put no effort into it, she offered it up without him even asking. I get it though her marriage was **** too, alcoholic husband. Why she’d want another one was beyond me!

He did try to talk about the problems in our marriage but he didn’t want to see that his drinking and abandonment were the problem. It was me just being a *****!!!! I’ll admit, I was definitely a *****.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
I do worry about that and the fact that I allowed him to disrespect me by continually to work with her. They no longer work on projects together but they sit 50 ft from each other!!! He says they don’t talk but I don’t know. I do believe it didn’t get physical but only because she wouldn’t allow it. If she’d initiated it I am sure he wouldn’t have said no. She was the one that suggested they mutually masturbate via text to see who could finish faster. She called it racing. He tried to get her to FaceTime but she wouldn’t do it.
My daughter has four years until she graduates I am content to stay definitely until then.
Sorry but do this is getting intimate, just because it wasn't PIV doesn't mean it was not intimate sexually.
PIV, not sure what that is? And their relationship was most definitely intimate sexually. Very, very graphic texts that included photos of both of them.
 

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I’d love to inform someone at her church but that might be a bit too far!!
Tell the church leaders!

If she is a Bible school teacher, as a parent, I would want to know that this cheating hypocrite is the one trying to teach my kids lessons about morality.

I don’t think known people who are immoral should be in a position to lead anything bible based (personal opinion).

If you are gonna preach it, be doing your best to live it. Nobody’s perfect, but most married moms are not masterbating in the back of their coworkers car to relieve stress, then going to teach bible school. Seriously! Barf.
They’d be chatting and he’d ask her what she was doing and many times the answer was working on stuff for bible school!!!!

I am not a religious person so I was so fooled by their friendship. I thought the Bible school teacher has to be making a positive impact on my husband. I actually encouraged their friendship. 😔 He’d tell me they we’re going to lunch together and it gave me comfort that he was spending time with this wholesome person. They’d talk about gardening, camping trips and other positive activities. I was an absolute fool!!!! She took advantage of my trust as well because she knew I liked her and was completely comfortable with their friendship. I’d always have him ask her stuff for me to get her opinion, baking or PTA stuff. She’d send home recipes for me to try!!! She’d hand write any of her personal adaptations on them with a smiley face!!!!! After I found out I had him take them all and drop them on her desk. I definitely didn’t want them any longer. She would buy stuff for my kids fundraisers and I would do the same for hers. What a total mind**** when I found out. As a woman who definitely supports other women I was completely devastated by the betrayal.

I don’t personally know anyone from her church so I don’t know how I would go about even informing anyone. I do have a friend that has at least one family member that goes there. In the beginning I actually had a letter drafted to send to her church but I just didn’t feel right about sending it. It felt more vengeful than it did informational. I agree as a mom I would not want that person teaching my child at Bible school and I am not even religious!!! From my understanding she is also the treasurer and is a very active member.
 
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