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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi folks,

I don't normally like posting on forum boards for stuff like this, as I feel that if I have major issues like these should be discussed with a therapist, but my current insurance doesn't cover marriage counseling.

Basically, I noticed in June/July that my wife had been becoming distant. We didn't talk as much as before, intimate moments were becoming scarce, and she was regularly posting these picture quotes on Facebook that made it seem like she was vaguebooking that something was wrong, but wasn't telling me.

Eventually, she got involved in a local theatre that did the type of theatre she was into (musicals), and she started spending a lot of time with her castmates, at times to the point of neglecting personal time between ourselves. It'd be one thing if she had rehearsals, but this was random cast hangouts that in my position I would have declined to go to or at least invited her to.

My parents came up to visit us in August, and they rented a cabin at the coast, to which we were invited out to for the weekend. I was able to get work off for the friday, so I drove out there then, and she unfortunately had a rehearsal, so she'd have to come out on the Saturday. I wasn't pleased with this, but I understood that it was mandatory for her show. When she did come out on Saturday, she was again distant, even with my parents around. I finally confronted her with this fact and that I wanted to know what was going on, and she came back at me with the fact that she was trying to figure out who she was, and that she was trying to work things out for herself mentally. She said that she felt like she had missed some opportunities, not just at work or in her hobbies, but in life. When I pushed this aspect, and asked her if she meant being in other relationships, or being intimate with other people, she said that was something that she had missed out on.

I thought I was being given the "divorce talk" right there, but she said that's not what she wanted, and she just needed to figure things out in her head. It scared me so bad, and she was being so vague, that I ended up crying myself to sleep that night, while she held me. She told me the next day that some of her castmates were having a cast party the next evening and that she'd really like to go, and I told her it was okay (so as not to seem too controlling). But it wasn't something that I evidently was invited to. She went on her own, and I went home.

That next week went poorly emotionally for me, Iw anted to talk about it, but I didn't want to annoy or make her upset. I eventually had a sit down chat with her telling her I wanted to work on whatever issues we had, and she came to the point where she said that she didn't feel comfortable with sex while trying to figure things out in her head, she also asked that terrible question, "What if we can't be okay?" which prompted me to tell her that I would go to whatever lengths were needed to be okay. If I had to quit my job to go be a busker living on the street halfway across the world, I would do it for her. She also told me that there were a number of things that she had asked me to do that I hadn't done, or said I would and didn't do.

For example, I started smoking in college, and at a point she asked me to quit. I hid it for awhile, but she found out I still was, and was super upset whenever I did it. Eventually when she decided to get a tattoo (which I didn't approve of), I told her that it was okay to get one and that I never tell her what to do with her body, and as such I requested that she didn't do that to me. She agreed and dropped the constant rivalry about smoking. I never did it in the house or in my car, but I would still do it. And that is something that she originally dropped so we wouldn't be constantly fighting about it and the fact that I broke the promise to quit, but evidently it still is an issue. Same thing with wanting me to get healthy, but like any other person, I have a myriad of real and imagined "other things to do" that prevent me from exercising regularly. But it's true I need to do it more, and she went out of her way to get fit (dropped like 40 lbs) but alas I have not (was 185 in college, now I'm about 210, but also 10 years older).

Anyway, sorry to digress, but I then asked her why she had started a few months back password protecting everything (phone, email, etc) when before it never was an issue. She told me it was because she was having discussions about these issues she was having with a mutual (female) friend of ours, and didn't want me to either intentionally or accidentally find out before she was ready to talk to me about it (FYI: everything is still password protected). She also assured me that she was not cheating on me, and that there was no one else. I want to believe her, but I don't know if it's true as she still keeps her electronics protected.

I thought we would be able to work through it from there, but as the weeks progressed, she would still stay out late with her castmates, or always have a party/hangouts to go to with girlfriends, and some of this at the expense of when I was either expecting her to be home or when I'd take time to spend time with her. And, as with someone who has feelings, I would most times be a little pissed that she was making everything and everyone else a priority but me and our marriage. We had a few minor scuffles about it, but nothing ever came of it or was resolved.

It finally came to a head last sunday when she came home almost an hour late from a girls night she had planned with some friends. She walked in and I was a bit huffy about the fact that she said they were watching one more episode of some TV show, and that she was still an hour later than she said she'd be. She sat down and said that she was becoming more and more leery of coming home because she was always feeling attacked (and she said, "and rightfully so), and that she was usually doing something wrong and I had every right to be angry. It was after that when she said, "There's an apartment downtown..." and I lost my ****.

I was completely inconsolable; I could not stop crying. I ran to get my keys because I felt like I needed to get out of there, and had a full on sobbing panic attack in the middle of the living room. She walked over and sat with me as I told her that I didn't want her to leave, and she said she wasn't going anywhere yet, and I then told her I wanted her to promise me that she was never going to leave, to which she replied not to give her a promise to make that she couldn't guarantee. I told her I couldn't survive without her, and she said that I was strong and would do fine. What bothered me most about the whole ordeal was how I was a complete mess, sobbing on the floor, and she was very calm and collected, never getting emotional. It was honestly so painful, I don't even remember how the night ended.

The next week was difficult to get through, but I felt like we might have been doing a bit better, but she was still distant physically. I like hugging her. I like cuddling in bed with her. And she said that she was abstaining from that because she didn't want to give me the wrong idea, and that she was still uncomfortable with sex. She did agree to see a marriage counselor, and that she was seeing a therapist on her own on the 25th.

Today, was terrible though: from start to finish. Again during the night she was as far away as possible on her side of the bed. I had a nightmare, and woke up screaming, but she didn't move or flinch (which she normally does). I couldn't get back to sleep and she eventually woke up when she normally does (she has to be at her work before I get up), but as has been the trend lately, she didn't give me a kiss goodbye and tell me she loves me...

SIDE NOTE: I told her at one point that it hurt my feelings when she didn't reciprocate our usual "I Love You's" and that she was feeling pressured into saying them sometimes (Which is still something I don't understand). I asked her point blank if this was one of those stupid cliched "Always love you, but I'm not IN love with you" things that had happened to our relationship, and she said no. Sorry back to this morning...

And when she left, I was in my usual doldrums, and when I was picking up a shirt on her side of the bed, I noticed something shiny in her night stand drawer that wasn't fully closed. It was a pair of vibrators that she had bought from one her Pure Romance parties she attends/throws with her friends. But she had said that she never bought any toys, and usually her Pure Romance stuff (things like body powders, oils, etc) she shows me. But I'd never seen these before. It made me feel horrible. At least now I know how she's been able to get through the Lysistratian withholding of sex that has been going on for almost 2 months. I was so upset, I did a douchey thing and put notes next to them asking her why she needed these and that I was confused why she was uncomfortable with sex, but okay with having vibrators in her nightstand. I think I will remove the notes when I get home (as I'll be there before her).

Anyway, I was still stinging from that at lunch, when I went to look at the bank balance and saw that there was an account that bared her name as an LLC, which I couldn't remember if I'd seen before or not, and there was $800 sitting in it. I immediately texted her to know what it was for and why it was in there. She replied it was cushion money, and the LLC was set up when she was getting some ASCAP payments, and it had a better interest rate than our joint savings. This was all true, but her having $800 just sitting in an account bearing her MAIDEN NAME freaked me the f*ck out.

Things didn't go much better over lunch when I apologized for freaking out, and she said that we needed to talk about her being able to get a place to go to if "something happens" during the Marriage Counseling, which made me upset that it seemed like she was being negative and almost trying to sabotage the whole thing before it even started. To which I pushed her for finally what it was in her mind that she was trying to work out, to which she replied that all of the past broken promises which she decided not to fight about so as to keep the peace, as well as times in the past (we're talking YEARS past) when I had become emotionally distant from her because she was smothering me prior to our marriage, and had an almost emotional (not physical affair) with a woman who I considered one of my best friends at the time, and didn't realize I was hurting my wife so much. I understand that these were super tough and hard times for her, and that now I'm seeming to go through the same thing she was, but I never contemplated breaking up with her or divorcing her. Never moving out. And I wasn't one to hold past transgressions against her. Now that she's bringing up these things, I feel like I'm in double jeopardy.

And perhaps maybe I deserve that. I will not deny that there were times when I was a ****ty husband, and I wish I never engaged in such emotional antics. And now I guess the shoe is on the other foot, and I can't stand it, and don't know what to do or how to stop this oncoming train of emotional woe and keep her from leaving, which I fear may lead to divorce.

I know we need marriage counseling, but anything to help in the interim is appreciated.

Thanks.
 

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I could not stop crying.
That is the complete OPPOSITE of what you need to do right now. You need to cry? You GET AWAY FROM HER! Do not go to her to be consoled.

Read up on the 180. I'm afraid she's gone for good. You need to start fixing you.
 

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Oh. I almost forgot the most important part. She has your replacement lined up already. That apartment has noting to do with what may happen in marriage counseling... :scratchhead: ...and EVERYTHING with having someplace to go when it all falls into place with him.

I have zero doubt she's gone for good. They rarely come back when they are truly confused. She is anything but. She's ready to walk.

Prepare yourself.

And no more crying in front of her.
 

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Yep, start interacting with her according to the 180.

There is a very high probability that she is cheating.

If you want evidence, put a VAR (voice activated recorder) in her car.. secured using adhesive backed velco on a hidden surface... like up over the springs of the front seat.
 

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She has a social life that does not include you, and even does not let you go to their parties. She has stopped sex, told you that she missed out on other relationships, opened a bank account in her maiden name, and wants to move out into her own apartment. She is leaving the marraige. It is likely that she has found another man (OM) that she either is already in a relationship with, or is heading that way.

Your response to this has been to cry and beg. Their is nothing attractive in this, as she cannot love a man that she does not respect. The other man is not crying or begging. Man up and take a stand.

It may be too late, but your best odds of saving your marraige is to be willing to leave it if she does not respect you or your marraige. Tell her that she must start wanting to be your wife again, or you will divorce her on the spot and find someone that does. Tell her that if she wants to be your wife, that for starters she must stop talking about moving out, and she must move the money in the LLC into a joint account. Tell her that other than the rehearsals, there will be no more late nights without you, and you must be made to feel welcome by her to meet everyone after the rehearsals. That if she want to go to other things where other men will be welcome, that she must invite you to also attend. Again, although this gives you the best odds of saving your marriage, it may already be too late if she has found someone else. If she does say no to your demand that she start acting like your wife, based on your begging and crying she may thing that you are only bluffing, so you need to follow through and mean it with filing for divorce. Divorce takes time, so she you can always stop if she comes to the table to save the marriage.

Crying, begging, and being a doormat will lose her for sure. Stop this immediately.
 

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JYH

Everything you are doing is pushing your wife further away and making you so unattractive.

And guess what?

She is setting you up. She is leaving and will be telling you at MC'ing.

So buck up. Stop crying.

And act like a man. Kiss her goodbye and go find a real woman that does not need to bring up the past to get out of her marriage.

Your wife is a coward. She is what we call a walk away wife or WAW.

Now be a man and let her go.

HM
 

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I know this is hard for you but the crying and begging and apologizing in front of your wife has to stop NOW. She is an evil woman and she clearly said she wished she explored more relationships and partners + partying/new life + apt downtown + locked phone for whatever BS reason is given (don't believe anything) = cheating and about to move on.

You don't need MC. The marriage from both sides is not the problem. She and her new classmates are the problem. What you need to do.. is the 180.

If you really want this woman to stay.. take off the additional weight you have gained over the years and start acting like your life DOES NOT revolve around her. It's sad but it's honestly, your only hope. She has to hold you to sleep as you cry the night away is just making her feel more like a mom helping her child feel better. Stop it, NOW. You need some outside friends in your life, as of yesterday.

This woman does not respect you. She is willing to throw out her whole life with you because you supported her in a decision for something she wanted to do. She withholds sex from you. She keeps all electronics password protected. STOP making excuses for her actions because of past problems. The past is the past.

If she wants to go, then let her go. Begging will never stop someone from leaving. Like everyone else has said, you need to focus on you. She happens to be in her own little fantasy world now (maybe the acting got to her head).
 

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Agree with everything that's been said. She's being planning her exit for a while. You're emotional response is hurting, not helping. You really should not give her any further time to line up her new life that doesn't include you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
So, Update: I found proof of her cheating. Evidently there was some guy in 2010 that she had a texting relationship with. She was into some other guy 2 years later, but only as a one way crush. And then she evidently had some makeout fling with some 21 year old (9 years her junior), which has been done for awhile. And by "awhile", I mean she was still pining after him on the 19th even though the whole thing has ended.

So that evidence combined with the hurt, we have decided it is best for her to move out and get a place elsewhere on the 8th of November. I don't know if I want to confront her with the depth of knowledge that I have about her past relationships, and how long they've been going on outside the marriage. I don't deny that I am partly to blame for her wanting to seek this outside attention, but I can understand doing it once, thinking it a mistake and finding out the grass is greener on the other side of the fence... but 3 times?

We have agreed on marriage counseling, and this will be brought up there, and whereas I hope it doesn't sabotage the marriage, I can't let her lie to me about the enormity of these dalliances, and then think that I'm okay with her getting an apartment and giving me hope that we might be able to fix our relationship.

The only problem is that I did break her trust (I know, sounds hollow) by getting her phone and downloading all of the text messages onto my computer to view them. So confronting her with that kind of evidence, is not only something that was illegally obtained (so hence won't be useful in divorce court), but also something that could be viewed as an unsurmountable obstacle. If she feels that she has no privacy, she will never stick around.

And this is the thing guys: Yes, she has done some heinous things, moreso than I have done. And yes she is moving out, but she is still a good person, and I'd rather not be in an environment that calls her names. You may think I'm whipped, or co-dependent, but she's a human being who's feelings are confused as well, we should at least treat everyone with some modicum of respect. Even people who cheat, when you don't know our 11 years of background. I love her, and I wish she could have given me more, but I'm quickly approaching the fact that that might not happen.
 

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First of all. STOP CRYING AROUND HER! She knows she has you wrapped around her little finger and as long as you act like a wimp and cry and beg, the worse it will get.

There comes a point in time when you have to step up to the plate and come to terms with the issue. It's obvious that she's snowballing you with the MC. Her heart isn't in it. Yours is and when only one wants to work on the marriage, it won't work.

If it was me, I would let her know that if she's not happy, for her pack her clothes and her vibrators and move into her apartment. When she chooses a dildo and withholds sex from you, then gives a half ass excuse, well that's a slap in the face. Tell her she's free to go but once she's out the door, don't come back because there will be nothing to come back to. Put the load on her back and let her carry it around with her. She expects you to carry her selfish ways around like your her lackey. Give them back to her where it belongs but stop crying like a baby around her. It makes you look like a loser and you will if you let her continue. One other thing. Start your own bank account with your name only.
 

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So, Update: I found proof of her cheating. Evidently there was some guy in 2010 that she had a texting relationship with. She was into some other guy 2 years later, but only as a one way crush. And then she evidently had some makeout fling with some 21 year old (9 years her junior), which has been done for awhile. And by "awhile", I mean she was still pining after him on the 19th even though the whole thing has ended.

So that evidence combined with the hurt, we have decided it is best for her to move out and get a place elsewhere on the 8th of November. I don't know if I want to confront her with the depth of knowledge that I have about her past relationships, and how long they've been going on outside the marriage. I don't deny that I am partly to blame for her wanting to seek this outside attention, but I can understand doing it once, thinking it a mistake and finding out the grass is greener on the other side of the fence... but 3 times?

We have agreed on marriage counseling, and this will be brought up there, and whereas I hope it doesn't sabotage the marriage, I can't let her lie to me about the enormity of these dalliances, and then think that I'm okay with her getting an apartment and giving me hope that we might be able to fix our relationship.

The only problem is that I did break her trust (I know, sounds hollow) by getting her phone and downloading all of the text messages onto my computer to view them. So confronting her with that kind of evidence, is not only something that was illegally obtained (so hence won't be useful in divorce court), but also something that could be viewed as an unsurmountable obstacle. If she feels that she has no privacy, she will never stick around.

And this is the thing guys: Yes, she has done some heinous things, moreso than I have done. And yes she is moving out, but she is still a good person, and I'd rather not be in an environment that calls her names. You may think I'm whipped, or co-dependent, but she's a human being who's feelings are confused as well, we should at least treat everyone with some modicum of respect. Even people who cheat, when you don't know our 11 years of background. I love her, and I wish she could have given me more, but I'm quickly approaching the fact that that might not happen.
JYH

You love your wife, you respect your wife. I can understand that.

But she does not respect you let alone herself.

Glad your eyes are open now.

Stay firm.

Your wife has a lot of growing up to do and you have no blame for her lousy decisions.

HM
 

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I think you are a hopeless doormat right now. You will not get her back. She was never just yours. Many have had her since you. You need to become a man and act like one. Woman prefer a man. You need to have a good person in your life. She is an immoral mess.
 

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You need to stop caring about your wife.
You need to file first for divorce.

See her for her real self,dishonest and
blaming you for her missing out on life.

Sickening,its all about her.

Do the 180, and realize she is not she is
not the person you though she was.

If you want to screw around,at least
have respect and leave the person
before you go down this path.
 

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I have said it elsewhere but I don't think I'd ever be in a relationship where my partner, the person from which I kept no secrets....locked me out of their digital life. Unacceptable and a HUGE red flag.
 

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Jyh3, why is it so important that your wife have privacy in your marriage? Privacy in the bathroom, yes....but I'm having trouble coming up with good reasons for husbands and wives to keep secrets from each other.
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You come across as very needy and soft. Your wife finds this very unattractive. You need to transform yourself into the kind of guy who would never tolerate a wife cheating on him. That's the kind of guy girls like. And that's what you aren't. Even if you want to reconcile, she can't know that. She has to know that you're gone. On to better things. That's the only way you have any chance of getting her back.
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More on the privacy thing: Did you know that simply the fact that you didn't realize that she had boyfriends made you unattractive in her eyes? Maybe not at a conscious level, but it's what she felt. She's hardwired to be attracted to a man who would simply know when she's out of line and wouldn't hesitate to put a stop to it. She likes a man who would know these things and would take control of the situation in a firm and confident way. A strong and confident man would never fret over his wife getting mad because he looked at her text messages
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OP, your wife has been cheating on you for a while. You have evidence going back to 2010, almost 4 years. She is adept at lying to you. She does not want you. She does not want to be with you. She has changed her life right ij front of your eyes and you did nothing but cry.

Get angry for God sakes ! Do a hard 180. Get in shape, start going out, file for D ASAP, and take charge of the situation. She's a bad egg. Go find yourself someone else.
 
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I think it's a good move. Letting her get her own little batchelorette pad where she can explore this new sexuality she seeks. She missed all of that before she met her husband, and the only way she can know she will want him after marriage counseling is if she tries a lot of dating before settling back with him. And dating with all of that tiresome sneakiness won't let her get the full feel of it.

You are a stronger man than I, OP. Letting your wife date while you sit at home. But don't worry, there is still a chance she'll choose you over these other suitors. And you'll get to hear all about it in "marriage counseling". Don;t listen to the rest of the posters who will accuse you of financing her lifestyle while being little more than a fallback. You've got courage. I like that. Brains maybe not. But your balls are made of BRASS!

She moves out, she moves out for good. Do you get to date while she's gone?

Oh, and thanks for the warning, but it wasn't your wife who was going to get lambasted.
 
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