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Then why don't they give up. It must take up a lot of they're time and they have less resources than they used to. Why would they waste their time if they know everything is great?
 

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You wouldn't NEED to renounce your citizenship from any other country other than the US (and one other tiny one, Eritrea I think(?),) because aside from those two exceptions (and a few other very unusual cases such as French citizens having to pay French taxes if they live in Monaco), people pay taxes only to the countries they live in, not based on their citizenship.

This makes US citizenship an almost uniquely expensive proposition.
Hardly. The USA has tax treaties with other countries so you don't get double taxed. My apartment in Europe gets taxed (rent inc) there, not here. And I have to file a copy of my 1040 with my birth country's taxes.

This leaves for some Trump sized loopholes. Thanks to tax treaties I did not have to pay taxes on my research scholarship when I did my MA. A visiting prof didn't either, same reason, even showed us his paycheck with zero deductions.

For a multinational things are not as clear, but if much of the R&D and planning and admin work is made in the USA it makes sense to recognize some of the foreign income as taxable in the USA.
 

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Then why don't they give up. It must take up a lot of they're time and they have less resources than they used to. Why would they waste their time if they know everything is great?
Um, lets think about that for a second? Did or did not: the IRS target conservative groups at a much more frequent basis than liberal groups (those looking for tax exempt status?)

Who tells the IRS what to do? Um, the POTUS, who is staunchly opposed to Trump.

The IRS also tends to audit the very rich, because if they catch an error on them, versus Joe 6 pack, they will bring in a ton more $.

I can easily come up with a few other reasons, but these are enough.

BTW - there is some due process even in taxes. An audit or investigation still means squat, until proven guilty.
 

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BTW - there is some due process even in taxes. An audit or investigation still means squat, until proven guilty.
I've been audited twice. Both times it went very easily because I had documentation and I was completely within the rules.

Rich people with businesses have extremely complex finances. Tax rules have a lot of overlap, contradictions, grey areas, and room for interpretation. Take your taxes to 10 different CPAs and you'll likely get 10 different bottom lines.

Thus there is a much higher likelihood of finding something in a Trump tax return than in mine which could be argued as money owed. And, as you said, the amount of $ owed would likely by Uuuge from a Trump audit compared to from mine. The IRS uses risk factors to choose what to audit. Tick enough boxes in the list and you'll be audited.
 

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As many times as he's been audited by the IRS, I'm sure if he did something illegally or outside of the tax laws, he would have been caught by now.
There is no guarantee that Trump is even being audited!

He won't even offer proof of an audit by simply releasing a copy of his CP (computerized paragraph) notice stating that he is indeed under official audit!

Like most everything else that comes out of his mouth, he's no doubt lying about that also!

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Hardly. The USA has tax treaties with other countries so you don't get double taxed. My apartment in Europe gets taxed (rent inc) there, not here. And I have to file a copy of my 1040 with my birth country's taxes.
My point, which you seem to have missed, is that Americans living anywhere in the world are subject to US tax laws, which is true of almost no other nationality. One effect of this is tremendously complex tax returns. Another is that it is increasingly difficult for them to even open a bank account in most other countries, as banks in other countries don't want the hassle of dealing with the IRS, which they can avoid if they can certify that none of their customers are US subjects.
 

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Um, lets think about that for a second? Did or did not: the IRS target conservative groups at a much more frequent basis than liberal groups (those looking for tax exempt status?)

Who tells the IRS what to do? Um, the POTUS, who is staunchly opposed to Trump.

The IRS also tends to audit the very rich, because if they catch an error on them, versus Joe 6 pack, they will bring in a ton more $.

I can easily come up with a few other reasons, but these are enough.

BTW - there is some due process even in taxes. An audit or investigation still means squat, until proven guilty.
You really don't get anything resembling due process.

1. You have to prove that you don't owe whatever they claim, so you don't have the presumption of innocence.
2. Although they can't throw you in jail without a trial, if you do want a real trial with a non-IRS judge rather than an IRS administrator, you have to pay whatever they demand first and then sue them to get it back, which is a violation of the 5th Amendment.
3. They also can use your own testimony on the tax return against you, which is why they make the absurd claim that tax returns are filed "voluntarily" so that they can pretend that they don't violate the 5th Amendment.

So (at least) the 5th Amendment doesn't apply, which makes the notion of "due process" inapplicable.
 

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My point, which you seem to have missed, is that Americans living anywhere in the world are subject to US tax laws, which is true of almost no other nationality. One effect of this is tremendously complex tax returns. Another is that it is increasingly difficult for them to even open a bank account in most other countries, as banks in other countries don't want the hassle of dealing with the IRS, which they can avoid if they can certify that none of their customers are US subjects.
I showed you that the USA is not the only country that works this way...

My birth country requires me to submit a copy of my USA 1040, and were it not for tax treaties, I could be subject to double taxation.

And to be frank, the USA tax system is not quite the monster it's made out to be for individuals. If you're trying to claim your home office or cat as a deduction... Harder :). TurboTax takes me a couple hours a year max...

I do have a bank account back there, btw. Do you file foreign returns? I do.
 

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I showed you that the USA is not the only country that works this way...

My birth country requires me to submit a copy of my USA 1040, and were it not for tax treaties, I could be subject to double taxation.

And to be frank, the USA tax system is not quite the monster it's made out to be for individuals. If you're trying to claim your home office or cat as a deduction... Harder :). TurboTax takes me a couple hours a year max...

I do have a bank account back there, btw. Do you file foreign returns? I do.
If you lived in a country with no income tax, would you still have to file in your home country if you had no income or assets in your home country?

You would if you were a US citizen.
 

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I would, and thanks to foreign income exclusion provisions I would not have to pay US tax in most cases...

Most expats maintain some tax basis in the USA like Investments, property, accounts...
 

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You really don't get anything resembling due process.

1. You have to prove that you don't owe whatever they claim, so you don't have the presumption of innocence.
2. Although they can't throw you in jail without a trial, if you do want a real trial with a non-IRS judge rather than an IRS administrator, you have to pay whatever they demand first and then sue them to get it back, which is a violation of the 5th Amendment.
3. They also can use your own testimony on the tax return against you, which is why they make the absurd claim that tax returns are filed "voluntarily" so that they can pretend that they don't violate the 5th Amendment.

So (at least) the 5th Amendment doesn't apply, which makes the notion of "due process" inapplicable.
while true, when you get audited, you are not guilty, just under investigation. That was the point, Trump is not guilty because he is being audited, he is being audited, because he is rich and not of the party in power. Also, in most cases, you are not fined or taxed more by the audit (which goes out the window if you are indeed hiding income or exaggerating expenses.) And you do have legal recourse to sue the IRS....

I do think that the IRS should have to take you to court to get to your money, unless you 'admit to the crime'. I haven't followed any of these rulings that closely, but my guess is a lot of the time the person in jeopardy would cave and agree....
 

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Breaking news! This just in:

The Trump campaign has just changed its official moniker from "Make America Great Again" to "Just Grab Them By The Pu**y In The Locker Room!"

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You wouldn't NEED to renounce your citizenship from any other country other than the US (and one other tiny one, Eritrea I think(?),) because aside from those two exceptions (and a few other very unusual cases such as French citizens having to pay French taxes if they live in Monaco), people pay taxes only to the countries they live in, not based on their citizenship.



This makes US citizenship an almost uniquely expensive proposition.


You are something.

If you're a US citizen or permanent resident then you are obligated to file US taxes with the IRS each year no matter where you live. Your tax obligation depends on the treaties.

You may also be required to make an additional filing for assets held in foreign banks.
 

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You are something.

If you're a US citizen or permanent resident then you are obligated to file US taxes with the IRS each year no matter where you live. Your tax obligation depends on the treaties.

You may also be required to make an additional filing for assets held in foreign banks.
Yes, that's what I said. Do you think you are disagreeing with me?
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Tech, there's so much bureaucracy in being an expat that one more form won't kill anyone...

It's part of the adventure :)
 

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Breaking news! This just in:

The Trump campaign has just changed its official moniker from "Make America Great Again" to "Just Grab Them By The Pu**y In The Locker Room!"

Posted via Mobile Device


C'mon Arb...

If the 2 previously failed marriages, the lifelong search for a hotter younger wife and his stints on The Apprentice and other reality shows didn't show you who Trump was, then you weren't paying attention.
 

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Sooooooo...

How about the taxes as percentage of GDP chart?
I believe US is 31st highest (or 4th lowest) taxes as % of GDP in the OECD. Very low taxes compared to other wealthy countries. But people here don't feel that way. I believe we could balance the budget and still not be in the top 10 of taxes as % of GDP if politicians would be honest. Not that I expect them to be. Voters don't want politicians who tell them the truth. Voters want politicians who tell voters what they want to hear even if the match doesn't add up. Voters want to hear that we can have lower tax rates and not touch Medicare, Social Security, or national defense. Sorry, that is voodoo math (same as voodoo economics, as George H.W. Bush correctly described it - wow do I respect him more and more as time goes on).
 

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G H W Bush is by far my most admired President going back many decades... People fixate on federal income tax and forget how private enterprise or state - local government screws us over on a daily basis....
 
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