Talk About Marriage banner

121 - 140 of 154 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,534 Posts
From the information I have gleaned from OP, this is what I have come up with.

OP's wife:
-Was promiscuous prior to marriage, having had sex with several partners;
-Had a long term sexual relationship with a prior BF that she failed to disclose to her husband;
-Did not share the same morals and values as her husband, but pretended she did;
-Defrauded him and tricked him into a marriage under false pretenses;
-Hid her deception and lies for eleven years;
-Demonstrated her loose boundaries by having an extended phone conversation with the same ex-boyfriend who knew her sexually before the OP;
- Only came clean about her premarital sexual activities when she was backed intop a corner by OP;
-Demonstrates her lack of remorse by getting upset when OP triggers and brings up her many crimes against him and the marriage, wishing he would just drop it;
-Despite her lack of boundaries, there is no evidence she has ever cheated on him during the marriage.

OP:
-Allowed his wife to continue with the marriage with little or no consequencs for her lying and deception;
-For the past 19 years has rug-swept the issue and let her offenses slide for the sake of preserving the marriage and the status quo;
-Idolizes his wife and keeps her up on a pedestal as a wonderful wife, mother and partner.
-He loves her, that much is clear.

So what can we infer from all this? Hmm?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,534 Posts
I really think it is a sexual violation, because she had sex with him under false pretenses, essentially without his true consent. If he knew the truth it is doubtful he would have married her and made her his first. Even so it would be his choice, he didn't get that choice. Frankly a big part of the bases for his commitment to the marriage was made without his true consent. Saying to this guy, he needs to get over it is not really understanding the magnitude of the betrayal.
That is a great point, and an angle I had never thought of.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,474 Posts
"Get over it" can mean many things, from "get out" to "forgive".

I say he needs to get over it. It doesn't matter by what avenue he does it. He doesn't have to stay married. He doesn't have to do anything, if he would like to continue to be tortured by this problem for the rest of his life. None of us can tell him what he should value, but just about everyone can agree that the current situation is untenable for a mentally healthy spouse.

I have no interest in focusing hard on the blame part of the equation here because it doesn't solve anything. It doesn't fix his problem. It doesn't un-ring the bell. It is too backward looking for someone who seems to have that ability in spades.


Don't discount the trauma that this causes though. Which is why saying get over it, in the context of "well enough time has passed and this should not bother you anymore" is in my mind not understanding the true nature of what a violation this is.

It's no surprise he struggles with this and trust issues.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,261 Posts
Basically, OP has a wife that lied to him before marriage. She married him and kept her secret all these years. Apparently she has been a good wife for these 30 years (but remember he can be fooled and lied to by her quite easily). Her ex-boyfriend calls her and she speaks with him quite brazenly for 45 minutes. OP then gets the truth from her (30 years on when she probably feels quite safe in letting him now know the truth). Her explanation is something feeble like she was so into his beliefs that she wanted to be like him - so she lied BUT did change her beliefs!

And we ... are making excuses for her behaviour - blaming society, the church, her age at the time etc etc and trying to tell the OP to forget about it since she has been "good" for 30 years.

And what he has come here for is advice on how to cope with the pain he is feeling after being told the truth. It is clear that he has not chosen to divorce her - he found out some time ago but is still feeling the pain which is why he thinks its retroactive jealousy.

They both need advice on this - OP needs advice on how to deal with the pain while his wife needs advice on how to help him heal with this pain - starting with NOT talking to her ex lover for 45 minutes and then, to make matters worse, not understanding why he is hurt by this!

Lets not try and confuse matters by talking about whether sex before marriage is acceptable or not or any other excuses.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bandit.45 and Rob_1

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,760 Posts
Don't discount the trauma that this causes though. Which is why saying get over it, in the context of "well enough time has passed and this should not bother you anymore" is in my mind not understanding the true nature of what a violation this is.

It's no surprise he struggles with this and trust issues.
What makes resolution especially difficult is that she might have been traumatized by her past, wanting to escape it, and had, from HER perspective, successfully done so. Now the husband is traumatized for obvious reasons, and the wife's apparent lack of empathy for how he feels requires that she revisit something she doesn't want to revisit.

That's the "nicest" scenario possible, in my opinion. Unfortunately, I don't think she gets off that easily (by taking into account her own trauma), for a couple of reasons. First, that phone call. It's like, you just pick up where you left off, how are things, to someone that, far as your husband knows, didn't exist? Second, she was living with that ex for how long? 7 years I think? You've really got to play the Saint card to get someone to believe, even if both are religious, that sex wasn't a part of the relationship.

What. Was. She. Thinking.

100% totally selfish, looking after herself, scared that, if she told him the truth, he'd leave. Isn't that the absolute worst way to start a relationship? Knowing that, if your partner knew the truth, it wouldn't work out?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,694 Posts
OP, One quick question ---- the "first" BF that she spent 45 minutes talking -- is she STILL in contact with him (or any of her former partners)? Do you have access to her email/phone/social media to see if she is really as trustworthy as you thought?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
544 Posts
Nothing here even remotely suggests this woman was "traumatized" by her sexual past. I think you are projecting issues here.
Per the OP's dilemma, I think her being traumatized or not is pretty moot. It doesn't excuse being lied to and being tricked into this marriage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
544 Posts
PS OP

Virginity.
Were you saving yourself for marriage and were you wanting to marry a virgin, as in that was part of your screening process?
Were you just a late developer and shy and you were a virgin against your will sort of and you weren't trying to marry a virgin but thought she was one and just though it was a nice little bonus that she was one too?
I'm trying to gauge how important this was to you when dating and if it was an actual deal breaker and a goal you were after at the time.
If she told you the truth up front...that she has had sex already with other men what do you think the response would have been?
Would you have married her anyway or do you think you would have broken it off and moved on?
Once again, I'm trying to gauge what your view and sex, intimacy and marriage was at that time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
451 Posts
Thank you, Divinely Favored -- What you said is an absolutely perfect description of what I'm feeling. I couldn't have said it better myself!

By now, my wife is sick and tired of discussing this. Each time we discuss it, it's very painful to her, seeing the degree to which she has hurt me. In a recent discussion, she described herself as feeling helpless and hopeless when it comes to helping me get through this.

As painful as it is for her to be a part of helping me get through this, I would like her to be immersed in this right along with me, as I feel as though I'm in this alone because the topic is difficult for her to deal with. I need her to support me, but I don't know exactly what that might entail.

A FAVOR TO ASK OF YOU: If you were in my wife's position, what would you do (be specific) that might be a good means of helping me and supporting me through this ordeal?
Frankly brother, I think you need to return to being a positive, strong man and never discuss, ponder, and especially NOT harass your wife over this again. She lied but per your words has been an incredible wife and mother.

Although, you SHOULD get angry and confront your wife if she ever dares talk at length with an old boyfriend (unless you’re next to her at a high school reunion or something). I think it’s very fair to be angry about that.

I know lots of GOOD women who in youth sort of fell into sexual relationships... maybe you don’t know this but young men can be relentless, pressuring, and (evil) bastards. Just because it was easy for you, doesn’t mean it is for beautiful young women. I mean, it’s a slippery slope for young women and every dude out there was pushing..

If she’s as good a catch as you say- take this to prayer and leave it with our Lord and move on and NEVER ponder or discuss it again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,029 Posts
My question is this: Do any of you suffer from retroactive jealousy?
I don't think badly of her for having a sexual past. But her LIES and her purposeful FRAUD in pretending to be a virgin in order to be married to you are a huge issue.

Your question should REALLY be, 'has anyone else swallowed their pride and chosen to stay married to a bald-faced LIAR who conned them into marriage by lying about her sexual past?"

THAT'S really the question you should be asking instead of trying to figure out how to accept it and roll over like a good dog.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,892 Posts
I don't think badly of her for having a sexual past. But her LIES and her purposeful FRAUD in pretending to be a virgin in order to be married to you are a huge issue.

Your question should REALLY be, 'has anyone else swallowed their pride and chosen to stay married to a bald-faced LIAR who conned them into marriage by lying about her sexual past?"

THAT'S really the question you should be asking instead of trying to figure out how to accept it and roll over like a good dog.
That's pretty much the issue, not the sexual past.

Now, couched more kindly, OP must decide to accept the rocky beginning and move on, or it's a breaking up offense.

One thing will expand troubles throughout the relationship which is to keep dwelling and bringing it up daily as a club to wield.

That will break things up in the long run, anyway.

Choose!

Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,534 Posts
OP said that one of the reasons he fell in love with her and wanted to marry her was because she purported to be a virgin. She made him believe they shared the same values. So the lying and deception goes way back to the very roots of their relationship. She was lying to him far longer than the eleven years of their marriage. Had he known she was not a virgin, she probably would not have gotten a second date with him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,534 Posts
That's pretty much the issue, not the sexual past.

Now, couched more kindly, OP must decide to accept the rocky beginning and move on, or it's a breaking up offense.

One thing will expand troubles throughout the relationship which is to keep dwelling and bringing it up daily as a club to wield.

That will break things up in the long run, anyway.

Choose!

Good luck.
I agree. He blew his chance to get out of the marriage cleanly 19 years ago when he first learned the truth. He needs to sh*t or get off the pot and leave her alone about it. He chose to stay with her, and now he needs to accept the emotional ramifications of that choice and get help to learn how to deal with the resentment. The ball has been in his court for two decades and he's just standing there dribbling.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,760 Posts
OP said that one of the reasons he fell in love with her and wanted to marry her was because she purported to be a virgin. She made him believe they shared the same values. So the lying and deception goes way back to the very roots of their relationship. She was lying to him far longer than the eleven years of their marriage. Had he known she was not a virgin, she probably would not have gotten a second date with him.
This is not yet clear; I don't recall OP saying he wouldn't marry her had she said up front she'd had sex previously with other guys. The lying and deception are clear, but it's not clear that he would have left when told that they shared the same values "now" (when they met) but that she'd had a different past. Look, some guys are "fixers" and maybe he would have seen that as a way to help her? Lots of different ways the scenario could have played out.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,379 Posts
I also would like to know if the OP was shy and sexually insecure and whether he would have been too fearful to have sex with her if he knew she had had sex with someone else. but the original poster doesn't seem to have returned to the thread to answer the questions whether this is religious base or something else.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
I understand your feelings. I would feel betrayed. She lied to you in order to get married, because you would not have been interested otherwise (and she already had at least 3 failed relationships that lasted years and included sex and the guys didn't marry her). I would feel VERY betrayed if I found out my spouse lied about their sexual history, and I'd have a hard time believing other things.

That said, at this point, I would look at this: Has she lied about other things? How did she respond to her ex calling her to reunite at the reunion? Is your marriage and life happy now with her, and is she trustworthy?

Because of cultural clashes, there is a big dilemma for many women who grow up being taught to enjoy life and do what they want sexually, and then discovering that some men don't want to marry women with a bigger sexual history than he has, and a lot of men who will sleep with her for years with no intention of marrying her. Lots of women don't care or want get married, and lots of men don't have this restriction, but a lot do (despite feminism and equality and whatnot), and if she was tired of dating men and sleeping with them for years and it ending in nothing, and then met you but knew she would lose you if you found out she wasn't a virgin, and she wanted to get married (I'm guessing by the timelines she was in her 30s when you met?), she felt it was ok to lie. She couldn't undo her past, so lied instead. I would feel betrayed, but other people think it's no one's business, so I guess it depends on if you think it was your business since you hadn't met yet, if it was important to you that you BOTH are virgins, if she has since not been a good wife or betrayed you or kept in touch with those guys, etc. I probably would have considered ending the marriage at the point I found out if we didn't have kids yet, because I'd feel we got married under false pretense. If we had kids, I probably would have waited until they were all off to college and then decided, based on how he was since then (a good husband and no other issues would make me for forgiving). Now at 30 years, I guess you have to decide how you want to live the rest of your life, and if you want her to be part of it.

PS I think it's really admirable that you waited :) I think it definitely reduces feelings of jealousy if there is symmetry between both partners in terms of experience, and I would not have wanted to marry someone who went through women like water, but rather took his relationships more seriously.

PPS I also don't want to get into an argument with anyone else, I'm just responding to the OP.
 
121 - 140 of 154 Posts
Top