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So important, in fact, that I take it so seriously that I would never again wait for marriage, as I did the first time, to discover if we were sexually compatible.
Yet we see here countless times people from marriages where there are long term and serious sexual problems and they almost all lived together for some time before they married. You cant gurantee anything by having sex before you marry.
A lady I know said to me when my now husband and I were dating that we should live together first to see if we were compatable. She isnt a Christisn BTW. I said no thats not happening, I knew we were compatable.
Sex for those who wait is the sealing of the marriage covenant. Its very important.
 

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I would definitely do a background check before getting in too deep with anybody. I get that it's not completely comparable, but I think even the OP knows that and being this focused on that isn't healthy just by the wording of his title. I mean, sounds like she may be having to cope with him having OCD and that certainly isn't any walk in the park.

It's not like she cheated on him. He needs to get past it and forgive her and if he's got OCD he needs to treat it.
 

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being a virgin means not having PIV sex.

i assume the OP was open to kissing and heavy petting.

i could wait for marriage to get PIV. however a dating a woman that
was not enthusiastic to kiss and pet would be a red flag that could
not be ignored.

we are left to guess about the OP and his wife's position what it means
to wait till marriage for sex.
 

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OP, it appears that your goal is to get past this and have a happy marriage with your wife and a genuine connection that isn't overshadowed by negative feelings (which you labelled jealousy, but include betrayal, grief and so I'll just say they are 'negative'). You also appear to be looking for people to tell you what your wife can do to help you get past it. I feel like you definitely had a right to those negative feelings, and it seems your wife does too and feels tremendous guilt and pain about causing those feelings. The thing is that you need to start accepting the responsibility for your own personal growth to get past them now. You have been stuck in those feelings for decades. Maybe it's time to get out of your own head. IMO, it's time you worked on you. Maybe the study of existentialism might be helpful.

On the note that you do not appear to take responsibility for your life, you choose to ask people not to talk to you about the requirement you had of being a virgin before marriage. I see nothing wrong with that. I see though that you haven't taken responsibility for leading your partner to feel that she could not be her authentic self with you, and so she lied (not making excuses for her, she has to take responsibility for her own choices as well). I feel like you should be admired for living authentically to your values and what you felt could help you be a better human being (I assume), but not for imposing this on the people around you. In your attempt to impose your choices on another, you have stripped that individual of the freedom to be accepted without judgement (and still is not accepted without judgement). All those years that person did not feel free to be her authentic self with you was due to your own choices, and I don't think you've accepted responsibility for that.
 

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OP, it appears that your goal is to get past this and have a happy marriage with your wife and a genuine connection that isn't overshadowed by negative feelings (which you labelled jealousy, but include betrayal, grief and so I'll just say they are 'negative'). You also appear to be looking for people to tell you what your wife can do to help you get past it. I feel like you definitely had a right to those negative feelings, and it seems your wife does too and feels tremendous guilt and pain about causing those feelings. The thing is that you need to start accepting the responsibility for your own personal growth to get past them now. You have been stuck in those feelings for decades. Maybe it's time to get out of your own head. IMO, it's time you worked on you. Maybe the study of existentialism might be helpful.

On the note that you do not appear to take responsibility for your life, you choose to ask people not to talk to you about the requirement you had of being a virgin before marriage. I see nothing wrong with that. I see though that you haven't taken responsibility for leading your partner to feel that she could not be her authentic self with you, and so she lied (not making excuses for her, she has to take responsibility for her own choices as well). I feel like you should be admired for living authentically to your values and what you felt could help you be a better human being (I assume), but not for imposing this on the people around you. In your attempt to impose your choices on another, you have stripped that individual of the freedom to be accepted without judgement (and still is not accepted without judgement). All those years that person did not feel free to be her authentic self with you was due to your own choices, and I don't think you've accepted responsibility for that.
Am I reading this right are you actually saying it's his fault that she lied? Really?

I don't want to put words in your mouth but is sure sounds like you are saying he is responsible for creating the conditions where she lied. Please tell me I am wrong, if not this is the same logic that blames the women who is raped for wearing the short skirt. Gross.
 

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Am I reading this right are you actually saying it's his fault that she lied? Really?

I don't want to put words in your mouth but is sure sounds like you are saying he is responsible for creating the conditions where she lied. Please tell me I am wrong, if not this is the same logic that blames the women who is raped for wearing the short skirt. Gross.
No, I'm saying he is not taking responsibility for the choices he has made in life, which were to impose his values on another human being. We can accept people have their own path and decide to be with that person based on who they are (which is created through their life experiences, and he chose her and whether he likes it or not, who she is was made up of all her life experiences, regardless of which ones he knew about and which ones he didn't), or we can decide that their path must have followed a certain route, thinking that that route is the only way to have become a person they would value. He decided he loved the person she was, thinking it was due to the route he had decided she must take to be that person, instead of realising he loved the person she was, and that person was who she was due to having taken a route he decided wasn't acceptable. She is still the same person.

I guess this may be losing something in translation, and I probably can't help some of that as I have no control over how other's perceive their world. We all have to accept responsibility for our own lives and if we feel it's always happening to us, we will feel powerless to achieve what we want to achieve.
 

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Most people just see her lie and think she's a horrible person. I see there might be a bit more to it than that.

Her life experiences led her to want to be valued as a person first. I think it was important to her not to be treated as a sexual object. I think she felt she found that because her partner told her his values and they seemed to align with how she wanted to experience life, as a woman loved for her inner self, committed to and accepted first and foremost as a person. Then as she experienced his judgement for the path she had taken in her life to get to the person she was, she feared rejection, thinking that she would lose this person who valued her inner self if he knew about her path. He would judge her based on her sexual experiences and reject her. Ultimately she chose to lie instead of face that rejection, not realising that in rejecting her because of her having had sex in the past, he would've been treating her as a sexual object, just like all the other men in her past.

She should've been brave and told the truth, and if he so rejected her, realised that he did not value her as a person first and foremost. There would've been many men who had the values she was looking for who would not have judged and rejected her for her path. Now she is living every day with guilt and shame, judged for her past and for lying. Never to feel completely accepted and loved. To me, she has definitely paid the price for not having the courage to stand up for herself and believe that she had deserved to be loved regardless of which path she took to become the person she is.
 

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No, I'm saying he is not taking responsibility for the choices he has made in life, which were to impose his values on another human being. We can accept people have their own path and decide to be with that person based on who they are (which is created through their life experiences, and he chose her and whether he likes it or not, who she is was made up of all her life experiences, regardless of which ones he knew about and which ones he didn't), or we can decide that their path must have followed a certain route, thinking that that route is the only way to have become a person they would value. He decided he loved the person she was, thinking it was due to the route he had decided she must take to be that person, instead of realising he loved the person she was, and that person was who she was due to having taken a route he decided wasn't acceptable. She is still the same person.

I guess this may be losing something in translation, and I probably can't help some of that as I have no control over how other's perceive their world. We all have to accept responsibility for our own lives and if we feel it's always happening to us, we will feel powerless to achieve what we want to achieve.
He didn't impose anything, he presented his values and she lied to make him believe she had the same ones.

"Here are my values if you want to be with me" = passive voice (she could have easily said no we don't align)
"Lie to line up with those values" = assertive, the lie means she took control and had ownership if this part of the relationship. The lie itself the assertive action.

He didn't love the women she was he loved the women she pretended to be, now maybe he loves the women now but she presented a false picture of herself.

So following your logic there is no such thing as money fraud because people are just choosing to give money to the thieves.
 

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Most people just see her lie and think she's a horrible person. I see there might be a bit more to it than that.

Her life experiences led her to want to be valued as a person first. I think it was important to her not to be treated as a sexual object. I think she felt she found that because her partner told her his values and they seemed to align with how she wanted to experience life, as a woman loved for her inner self, committed to and accepted first and foremost as a person. Then as she experienced his judgement for the path she had taken in her life to get to the person she was, she feared rejection, thinking that she would lose this person who valued her inner self if he knew about her path. He would judge her based on her sexual experiences and reject her. Ultimately she chose to lie instead of face that rejection, not realising that in rejecting her because of her having had sex in the past, he would've been treating her as a sexual object, just like all the other men in her past.

She should've been brave and told the truth, and if he so rejected her, realised that he did not value her as a person first and foremost. There would've been many men who had the values she was looking for who would not have judged and rejected her for her path. Now she is living every day with guilt and shame, judged for her past and for lying. Never to feel completely accepted and loved. To me, she has definitely paid the price for not having the courage to stand up for herself and believe that she had deserved to be loved regardless of which path she took to become the person she is.
Your missing one crucial part. Her values didn't align exactly because he valued honesty and authenticity she really didn't at least not enough to tell him the truth.

Why do you see his desire to marry someone who feels the same way about sex as he did, as judgment? It's a preference, he never once said everyone has to agree. All he said if if you want to be married with me our values have to align. I have to be honest I feel like a lot of push back on this issue is that people don't like the idea that there are people who have different values then they have about sex.

Let me ask you this, lets say a strong third wave feminist American women meets a guy and he seems great, a gentleman. He has a good job, good with kids. They talk about politics but he says he is really not that interested, but he believes everyone should have the right to get ahead what not. She doesn't press it because everything else is really good. They get married and have a great relationship, until one day they get to talking about politics and she finds out that he is died in the wool conservative. So much so that he didn't vote for Obama and he actually voted for Trump. Is she judging him if she has a problem with that? Or should she just "value him as a person first and foremost?" After all approximately half the people who voted in the last election voted for Trump. If his politics is too much for her is she imposing her values on him?

The truth is OP didn't judge her at all, he had a lifestyle preference like any other. It's only because this is about sex that all of the sudden people start with idea he is judging her. If you make it about politics then it's much easier to understands. Everyone has a right to have preferences about the kinds of experiences that they want in life and in their marriage especially. And no one should judge THEM for that. Some people want to marry people who are atheist, some people are a part of their religion. Some politically left wing some right. And YES some people want their one and only sexual experience to be with their spouse. No one should put nefarious motives behind that or judge them for that.

Finally this man didn't reject her, I mean you are even saying he didn't love her, where are you getting that, he suffered with a great loss but continued to love and be married to her for 20 years. Rejecting her would have been divorcing her.
 
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He didn't impose anything, he presented his values and she lied to make him believe she had the same ones.

"Here are my values if you want to be with me" = passive voice (she could have easily said no we don't align)
"Lie to line up with those values" = assertive, the lie means she took control and had ownership if this part of the relationship. The lie itself the assertive action.

He didn't love the women she was he loved the women she pretended to be, now maybe he loves the women now but she presented a false picture of herself.

So following your logic there is no such thing as money fraud because people are just choosing to give money to the thieves.
I guess we don't really know how either of them acted or perceived the actions of the other. I'm guessing she perceived judgement of others for having a sexual relationship out of wedlock so didn't admit to her own, but there's no way to know.

I would think that in him expressing his values, she took from it what was congruent with her own values and how she wanted to be treated. Regardless of her experiences, she still had the same values, and was still the same person, as he hasn't stated she's a different person to the one he believed except for the fact that she lied about her experiences of sex. He hasn't said she's cheated or done other things that aren't consistent with the person she first portrayed herself to be. I don't believe that a person who has experienced sex cannot have the same values about sex and commitment as someone who has refused sex.
 

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Your missing one crucial part. Her values didn't align exactly because he valued honesty and authenticity she really didn't at least not enough to tell him the truth.

Why do you see his desire to marry someone who feels the same way about sex as he did, as judgment? It's a preference, he never once said everyone has to agree. All he said if if you want to be married with me our values have to align. I have to be honest I feel like a lot of push back on this issue is that people don't like the idea that there are people who have different values then they have about sex.

Let me ask you this, lets say a strong third wave feminist American women meets a guy and he seems great, a gentleman. He has a good job, good with kids. They talk about politics but he says he is really not that interested, but he believes everyone should have the right to get ahead what not. She doesn't press it because everything else is really good. They get married and have a great relationship, until one day they get to talking about politics and she finds out that he is died in the wool conservative. So much so that he didn't vote for Obama and he actually voted for Trump. Is she judging him if she has a problem with that? Or should she just "value him as a person first and foremost?" After all approximately half the people who voted in the last election voted for Trump. If his politics is too much for her is she imposing her values on him?

The truth is OP didn't judge her at all, he had a lifestyle preference like any other. It's only because this is about sex that all of the sudden people start with idea he is judging her. If you make it about politics then it's much easier to understands. Everyone has a right to have preferences about the kinds of experiences that they want in life and in their marriage especially. And no one should judge THEM for that. Some people want to marry people who are atheist, some people are a part of their religion. Some politically left wing some right. And YES some people want their one and only sexual experience to be with their spouse. No one should put nefarious motives behind that or judge them for that.

Finally this man didn't reject her, I mean you are even saying he didn't love her, where are you getting that, he suffered with a great loss but continued to love and be married to her for 20 years. Rejecting her would have been divorcing her.
You say he hasn't rejected her, but how has he accepted her? Simply being present doesn't count imo.

As for the values, it's not about his values, which she accepted and agreed with and aren't in question, it was his judgement of her past experiences which I feel aren't true to the core of the values he espouses. I don't see how you can on one hand say that you feel it's important for you to commit to a person before you have sex with them without having some fundamental reason behind that statement. What are the real values behind it that the person is trying to live by? Because if it's all about sex itself, that seems to be opposite to the whole point of not having sex...
 

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Ford/Chevy??? Its more like a young woman marrying the man she loved and her religious views are that you can not have been married prior. He stated it was a new experience for him and 10 yrs later she finds out he is actually 3x divorced because one of his ex-wives called up for a 45 min chat to catch up. It was only new with her. But he really loved her so he lied as he really wanted to be married to wife #4.
Or for her to find out he was in a long term homosexual relationship before her ant the guy calling was not just one of his ol friends from HS.
 

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What are the real values behind it that the person is trying to live by? Because if it's all about sex itself, that seems to be opposite to the whole point of not having sex...
The "whole point" has two tenets.

1) by remaining a virgin until marriage, a person proves him/herself able to remain faithful to the marriage. Being married by the OP's standards is somewhat like finding out your doctor never went to medical school.

2) it is indeed about sex. People who have no sexual experience are compared quite unfavorably by their experienced spouses to past sexual partners. It creates a very unfair environment in which it is quite difficult to pursue mutual fulfillment.

If I were the OP, I would be very much affected by the way his wife chose to hide her true status from him, therefore disallowing him the choice he wished to make for his life. From that point forward, any rejection I felt from my wife would create feelings of inadequacy in me.
 

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The "whole point" has two tenets.

1) by remaining a virgin until marriage, a person proves him/herself able to remain faithful to the marriage. Being married by the OP's standards is somewhat like finding out your doctor never went to medical school.

2) it is indeed about sex. People who have no sexual experience are compared quite unfavorably by their experienced spouses to past sexual partners. It creates a very unfair environment in which it is quite difficult to pursue mutual fulfillment.

If I were the OP, I would be very much affected by the way his wife chose to hide her true status from him, therefore disallowing him the choice he wished to make for his life. From that point forward, any rejection I felt from my wife would create feelings of inadequacy in me.
[/QUOTE



Past studies have shown that women with more partners are less satisfied with their current partner in areas. The fact there are these memories of the guys that knew how to push her buttons that current spouse is not able to do. Those memories are very much there for her past partners.

I understand the want to be ones first, as i waited till Sr in college, hoping to find the right one. I turned down many opportunities. Had the talk with HS sweethart and she said same, she broke up with me before prom and later found out she had lied.
I see another reason why it would feel like being cheated on, she may think about something the other guys were good at during sex with hubby. So in a sence the other men have invaded the marriage sanctity.

In the past my wife in a discussion about sex brought up sex while stoned with a fond recollection about it being more intense, i had to respond by saying i wouldn't know. Now i know she has a fond sexual memory with her ex that i can not replace with our own because i work in law enforcement.

Just like i have a memory with a past girl than i wish i could replace with one from my wife but it is not her thing.
 

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I believe he said she saw that he was different then any other guy she dated. The difference being he wanted to wait. She knew that he wanted the same and lied about her past. He wasn’t judging her, she judged herself and decided to lie about her past because she didn’t want to lose him. She took something from him that he could never get back. Finding someone wanting like he was.

For those that said he fell in love with her because of all of her life experiences, ********. He fell in love with a lie, she hid the fact that she slept with others before hand. She turned herself into a different person so she wouldn’t lose him.
 

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You say he hasn't rejected her, but how has he accepted her? Simply being present doesn't count imo.

As for the values, it's not about his values, which she accepted and agreed with and aren't in question, it was his judgement of her past experiences which I feel aren't true to the core of the values he espouses. I don't see how you can on one hand say that you feel it's important for you to commit to a person before you have sex with them without having some fundamental reason behind that statement. What are the real values behind it that the person is trying to live by? Because if it's all about sex itself, that seems to be opposite to the whole point of not having sex...
Well assuming he did this for religious reasons then his value is that sex is a sacred act that is sanctified by God very much like the marriage itself, actually they go hand in hand. So this is not just (I don't want to compete with her memories). Now it can also be I want it to be special, and unique to just us, like a special trip that you might go to, or a restaurant. To people like this, sex is a precious and deeply personal inmate act, it is not something to be shared with anyone else, which is why they sacrifice and do not partake in what could be a pleasurable experience with others, but wait until they are married.

Besides that in this marriage their sexual experience is very much unbalanced now. No for most people that is a common issue in marriage, and it does cause problems. Granting I think if that is the case you have to accept it and let it go. Normally you have an idea about this before you marry, or if you don't ask it's a little late after you marry. But in this case he purposely tried to marry someone where there would be that balance, and she defrauded him.

I think if you don't feel this way about sex, if it's just something you do like any other activity then it's hard to understand this. But the betrayal is a lot closer to finding out that the person you married and said they wanted children really doesn't and just said that to marry you, with one clear difference. You can always remarry. He will never get the chance to have the unique intimacy of being his and his wife's one and only, and he put a lot of time and effort to have just that.

Now I agree he needs to move on if he is going to stay married to her or even if he isn't. But there is no way this is not going to be a point of pain for him. It is a deeply personal loss, that she caused. I really think it is a sexual violation, because she had sex with him under false pretenses, essentially without his true consent. If he knew the truth it is doubtful he would have married her and made her his first. Even so it would be his choice, he didn't get that choice. Frankly a big part of the bases for his commitment to the marriage was made without his true consent. Saying to this guy, he needs to get over it is not really understanding the magnitude of the betrayal.
 

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being a virgin means not having PIV sex.

i assume the OP was open to kissing and heavy petting.

i could wait for marriage to get PIV. however a dating a woman that
was not enthusiastic to kiss and pet would be a red flag that could
not be ignored.

we are left to guess about the OP and his wife's position what it means
to wait till marriage for sex.
We dont know what he did or didnt do before marriage. Some dont do anything sexual because of the temptation to go further.
.
 

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Well assuming he did this for religious reasons then his value is that sex is a sacred act that is sanctified by God very much like the marriage itself, actually they go hand in hand. So this is not just (I don't want to compete with her memories). Now it can also be I want it to be special, and unique to just us, like a special trip that you might go to, or a restaurant. To people like this, sex is a precious and deeply personal inmate act, it is not something to be shared with anyone else, which is why they sacrifice and do not partake in what could be a pleasurable experience with others, but wait until they are married.

Besides that in this marriage their sexual experience is very much unbalanced now. No for most people that is a common issue in marriage, and it does cause problems. Granting I think if that is the case you have to accept it and let it go. Normally you have an idea about this before you marry, or if you don't ask it's a little late after you marry. But in this case he purposely tried to marry someone where there would be that balance, and she defrauded him.

I think if you don't feel this way about sex, if it's just something you do like any other activity then it's hard to understand this. But the betrayal is a lot closer to finding out that the person you married and said they wanted children really doesn't and just said that to marry you, with one clear difference. You can always remarry. He will never get the chance to have the unique intimacy of being his and his wife's one and only, and he put a lot of time and effort to have just that.

Now I agree he needs to move on if he is going to stay married to her or even if he isn't. But there is no way this is not going to be a point of pain for him. It is a deeply personal loss, that she caused. I really think it is a sexual violation, because she had sex with him under false pretenses, essentially without his true consent. If he knew the truth it is doubtful he would have married her and made her his first. Even so it would be his choice, he didn't get that choice. Frankly a big part of the bases for his commitment to the marriage was made without his true consent. Saying to this guy, he needs to get over it is not really understanding the magnitude of the betrayal.
Very well and clearly explained
 

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Most people just see her lie and think she's a horrible person. I see there might be a bit more to it than that.

Her life experiences led her to want to be valued as a person first. I think it was important to her not to be treated as a sexual object. I think she felt she found that because her partner told her his values and they seemed to align with how she wanted to experience life, as a woman loved for her inner self, committed to and accepted first and foremost as a person. Then as she experienced his judgement for the path she had taken in her life to get to the person she was, she feared rejection, thinking that she would lose this person who valued her inner self if he knew about her path. He would judge her based on her sexual experiences and reject her. Ultimately she chose to lie instead of face that rejection, not realising that in rejecting her because of her having had sex in the past, he would've been treating her as a sexual object, just like all the other men in her past.

She should've been brave and told the truth, and if he so rejected her, realised that he did not value her as a person first and foremost. There would've been many men who had the values she was looking for who would not have judged and rejected her for her path. Now she is living every day with guilt and shame, judged for her past and for lying. Never to feel completely accepted and loved. To me, she has definitely paid the price for not having the courage to stand up for herself and believe that she had deserved to be loved regardless of which path she took to become the person she is.
No one has said she is a horrible person at all, but she did marry a man under false pretenses and lied about something that for him and many others was and is very important.
I think you are desperately trying to find another reason behind what she did, but the fact is she lied and deceived him for many years, knowing that he had waited himself and wanted to marry someone who saw sex in the same way he did. The whole marriage was based on lies and deception. I can perfectly well understand his struggle. For me, the lying and deception would make me question the whole marriage and I would sturuggle to trust them.
Maybe if she had owned up in the first year or so after the marriage things would be different, but if that ex hadnt phoned up, she would still be deceiving him now. I have no idea how she could have lied for so long, I could never keep something like that from my husband.
 

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"Get over it" can mean many things, from "get out" to "forgive".

I say he needs to get over it. It doesn't matter by what avenue he does it. He doesn't have to stay married. He doesn't have to do anything, if he would like to continue to be tortured by this problem for the rest of his life. None of us can tell him what he should value, but just about everyone can agree that the current situation is untenable for a mentally healthy spouse.

I have no interest in focusing hard on the blame part of the equation here because it doesn't solve anything. It doesn't fix his problem. It doesn't un-ring the bell. It is too backward looking for someone who seems to have that ability in spades.

 
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