[itzachicken]

The hubs and I had a meltdown last night in front of his brother and his gf. It was all really stupid. I talked about taking a trip and getting a bottle of wine. Which lead him to some stupid incident where I poured out and 18 pack of beer. Well not really stupid at, all at the time I gave him my last 10 bucks to buy me tampons he bought beer. After I poured out the 18 pack he went and bought a 30 pack just to get even. But that was old **** so I let it go.
I started washing dishes and he brought up a comment I made to one of his friends about how he's gotta pack his stuff cause the brother was coming back to town. The friend was dating one of my friends and she had a major crush on the hubs brother. I had been rude to the guy because she spent the whole day before complaining about how he didn't pay for anything and wouldn't have sex with her. It was rude and not necessary the right thing to do but I have apologized she has not forgiven me but continues to talk to the hubs and has since broke up with the guy in question. The past is the past and I cannot change it so why even bring it up? It was stupid I felt like he was trying to create problems with his brother and his gf.

All and all it took a perfectly normal evening and made it totally award and uncomfortable and lead to a lot of crying and venting to his brothers gf. She basically said her and his brother think its time to call it quits. This morning I told him how I'm done, that this hate-rid and resentment is killing our relationship and I don't believe things will ever change. I've begun to fill out paperwork to separate and establish custody of our children. He texts me and says he wants to desperately work things out. He says lets start over completely and let things go.
I don't believe it will work without therapy but he just wants to move forward. I asked him to stop drinking and I would like him to smoke a lot less pot. I've always used those things to justify his rude and abusive behavior. I think that in hoping things will work that it makes me clinically insane. Thoughts?

 

[SlowlyGettingWiser]

Sorry, chicken, but I am so CONFUSED by your 1st paragraph.

You and hubby had big fight last night in front of BIL & BIL's girlfriend.

You mentioned something about a trip and hubby brought up an OLD fight about tampons/beer incident, yes?

You washed dishes and hubby brought up a recent fight you had with one of your gf's. YOUR gf likes BIL and was ragging on her then-current bf (now ex-bf) and you feel hubby brought this up to start a fight between you and hubby; or maybe he brought it up to start a fight between you and BIL's gf by making her jealous about YOUR gf who likes BIL; or maybe he brought it up to start a fight between you and BIL; or maybe he brought it up to start a fight in general because hubby was being a d1ck, yes?

You spent the rest of the night crying/venting to BIL's gf about hubby and SHE SAID that BIL & she believe you and hubby need to split up permanently, yes?

NOW that you're fed-up and ready to move on WITHOUT HIS AZZ, NOW hubby is all "sorry" and wanting to change, yes?

Hubby drinks too much and smokes too much pot, in your opinion, yes?

Given ALL THAT (IF I got it right), you want to know if 'hoping things will work' with hubby makes you clinically insane, yes?

NO! Considering you have children with hubby, I don't think it makes you insane, just UNREALISTIC. I think that a very wise person on TAM put it best when s/he stated "Hope is NOT a plan." You've been 'hoping' for years and it hasn't produced jack-squat! Time to do something more.

If you've been allowing the excessive drinking and pot-smoking (in front of the kids? how old are they? do they KNOW/suspect he smokes...I mean it IS illegal where you live, isn't it?) to go on for years EVEN THOUGH YOU'VE 'ASKED' him to quit, then why should he respect your wishes now?

Put your foot down. DEMAND that hubby stop smoking pot AND stop drinking to excess beginning TODAY. If he is unwilling to get help and stop it NOW, right now, today, then tell him you're done. Talk is worthless; action is everything. Get tough and make him man up OR move on.

 

[itzachicken]

It's all really stupid and confusing. Yes you hit the nail nail on the head. The kids are young 2yr and 3 mo. Says he doesn't do it around the kids but 2 year old showed me his stash and told me daddy burns plants. I asked him to stop drinking and he told me to eff off told him not to smoke out around kids and he denies he does. Told me I have mental problems. I asked for therapy he says he doesn't have mental problems its all me. He showed me where I stand.
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[MrK]

If he is unwilling to get help and stop it NOW, right now, today, then tell him you're done. Talk is worthless; action is everything. Get tough and make him man up OR move on.

Yes, abusers have a clue. that's why they cry and apologize after bad episodes. Then you take them back and nothing changes.

That above quote is partially correct. He either gets help or you "tell him" you're done. "Telling him" is more worthless talk. You set out some boundaries. Once he crosses one, SCARE THE S.H.I.T out of him. Walk out the door with your kids and make sure he knows it's over. And make sure he knows it's HIS FAULT. And it's go to go on for a LONG TIME. He needs to see that his life just crashed because of his behavior and it will NEVER come back.

I was an abuser and I knew it. But there were never any negative consequences. Believe it or not, my wife pulled away from me and I DIDN'T KNOW WHY. After a year of trying to win back the love of my life who I knew drifted away (they never tell you), I finally dragged it out of her that it was my fault. It KILLED me. Abusers don't change? I changed ON THE SPOT. I have not said ONE mean thing to her since (2 years). I have not had a scary temper tantrum since. Thank god my kids didn't give up on me. My wife did, and she's now gone for good. If she took steps to help me instead of giving up, it could be different now.

Yes, you can change him. But you have to rip his life apart to do it. There will be some short term collateral damage to your family, but you can all be stronger in the long run.

 

[Jellybeans]

Yes, you can change him.

Nope. Nobody can "change" anyone. It has to come from within.

The onus of is bad behavior is on HIM. He needs to own it and acknowledge it and make a plan to stop the behavior. She cannot do it for him or "change" him.

Most abusers do NOT change. They get worse over time. That is a fact. The reason for that is that they do not CARE enough to stop the abusive behavior. They have a "I am going to do whatever I want and too bad if you don't like it" attitude.

Yes, abusers absolutely have a clue and know FULL WELL what they are doing is fvckd up and wrong. They simply do not care enough to stop it 9 out of 10 times.

OP, get this book. It explains it all perfectly. You can get it at you rlocal library for free:

Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men: Lundy Bancroft: 9780425191651: Amazon.com: Books



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[MrK]

Nope. Nobody can "change" anyone. It has to come from within.

The onus of is bad behavior is on HIM. He needs to own it and acknowledge it and make a plan to stop the behavior. She cannot do it for him or "change" him.

Hold on a second. She's getting advice from a reformed abuser here, and I don't want her to discount it over a misunderstanding.

My transformation came when I got kicked in the gut with the understanding that all I had lost was my fault. All of the lives that I'd ruined. What I did to her. What I did to US. What I did to my FAMILY!.

My wife did not make me change. I changed because I needed to start crawling back up from rock bottom. And the first things I did, the moment I recovered from that blow to the gut, was cut out the behaviors that were most responsible for getting me there. I did that IMMEDIATELY.

Have I slipped up? A little. And if you want to use that as a "see, they never REALLY change" excuse to cut and run, fine. It's probably the best bet anyhow. But if you want to HELP change him, all you can do is give him the motivation to change. Show him what it means to NOT change. Show him what he's lost. REALLY make him think it's gone.

I don't know how you know when he's hit that critical rock bottom point. But if he still thinks he can get everything back, he's not there yet.

 

[Jellybeans]

My wife did not make me change. I changed because I needed to start crawling back up from rock bottom. And the first things I did, the moment I recovered from that blow to the gut, was cut out the behaviors that were most responsible for getting me there. I did that IMMEDIATELY.

Thank you. You just proved my point. She cannot change him. He has to do it on his own.

And I commend you for getting help and stopping the bad behavior, MrK. It takes a big person to own being an abuser and it's not something that happens often. Keep it up



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[itzachicken]

Thanks guys! He was better last night. Is there a way to make him realize we don't fight as as bad or as often when he's not drinking? He wants praise for cutting down from an 18 pack a night to 6 to 8 a night with binges about once a week. I truly believe the alcoholism has created a lot of our problems by creating communication issues. BIL and SIL are the only people who will come around us because of his drinking and even they are starting to say they don't want to be around.

 

[Prodigal]

Is there a way to make him realize we don't fight as as bad or as often when he's not drinking? He wants praise for cutting down from an 18 pack a night to 6 to 8 a night with binges about once a week.

He's still an active alcoholic. It is a progressive disease. So he cut back; so what? He'll slowly escalate back up to the amount he was drinking before, but he'll try to hide it from you. Alkies have this wonderful mindset of denial. They believe, sometimes their entire lives, that they can drink like "normies" and control their drinking. The opposite is true: the drinking controls them.

The three C's: you cannot control his drinking, you cannot cure his drinking, you did not cause his drinking. Thus, you cannot make him realize anything. It's sad, but true.

I truly believe the alcoholism has created a lot of our problems by creating communication issues.

I was somewhat surprised that nobody mentioned his drinking and pot smoking as being a factor. Sure, there are plenty of abusers who aren't drinking or doping; they're just abusers. But I've never known an addict who didn't have abusive behaviors towards others. It's always someone else's fault; if everyone would just give them space, money, time, etc., things would be fine; they have "special" problems so they need to drink and/or drug in order to relax.

Forget giving hubs kudos for cutting back. He needs to be in a recovery program, and it doesn't sound like he has any inclination to look into that. After all, he can "control" his drinking.

So now he only goes on a bender once a week. How do you feel about that?

 

[itzachicken]

those are the worst nights...I generally pretend to be asleep by 8 or 9 just to avoid talking to him; all his time before that is spending time on the phone with his buddies which aggravates me. I know its just his friends I check the phone records...I've got some serious trust issues with him. If I do stay up he just wants to have ****ty sex that either last so long I loose interest or he cums so quick I can't get into it. We end up fighting over something stupid that doesn't really matter. I finally go to bed and find him passed out on the couch beer still in hand at 1 or 2 in the morning. I spend the following day thinking about how much I hate the booze and how it was so easy for me to stop for the kids and wonder why he doesn't do it too. When we meet I would drink 3 fifths a week but it hindered my ability to function so I drink on rare occasions now and only drink one or two when I do.

 

[Prodigal]

We end up fighting over something stupid that doesn't really matter.

Quit engaging in the fights. It solves nothing and serves no constructive purpose. If he starts trying to create some "drama" ignore him. He will probably escalate, or he'll just give up and go drink/smoke more until he passes out.

I spend the following day thinking about how much I hate the booze and how it was so easy for me to stop for the kids and wonder why he doesn't do it too.

You're not addicted; he is. That's the difference. Ever considered going to an open A.A. meeting or Al-Anon? Knowledge is power.