Talk About Marriage banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 53 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone,

I'm new to this forum. I've been reading on hear for the past two days now, and it's been helpful thus far.

Here's my story so far.

First is the back story. Been married to my wife for almost 14 years now. We've had our share of ups and downs in our relationship. I've done my share of damage to it by lying about stupid things, for example... We both used to smoke, but when my wife got pregnant with our daughter she was able to quit cold turkey and never look back. I on the other hand had a lot of difficulty quitting. Instead of seeking help I made a horrible choice and lied about quitting while sneaking cigarettes. I was caught and lied about it to her face (another bad choice on my part). My bad choices continued as I did this same thing several more times. I know that each time I did it I caused severe damage to the trust that my wife had in me. However, I am now smoke free and have been so for almost 3 years now.

This is pretty much the extent of my wrongdoing. I can freely and honestly say that I have NEVER cheated on my wife as I take my marriage vows very seriously, and I love her to the utmost.

My wife on the other..... Approximately 2 years ago I caught my wife in an EA that was on the verge of becoming a PA. In all honesty it may have already become a PA but I never saw any real proof of that. I have done my best to forgive my wife for her infidelity. (Of note is that upon first discovering it and confronting her with it we ended up in a False R, and she went underground with it, but I discovered it again and confronted her and we moved on from there).

However, I am now, approximately 2 years later, faced with this situation again. I confronted my wife 2 days ago. Again she did the denial dance until I showed her evidence that she couldn't explain away. (Text with one of her girlfriends where she was discussing how she was seeing someone else behind my back).

At this point I was angry, emotional, shouting, basically doing everything wrong, but as any of you who have been through this yourselves know it is extremely difficult to maintain a level head after you've been hurt like this.

Anyway, I have been reading lots on here and I began to really listen and follow advice. I have done a lot of introspection and have come to the conclusion that I am a good person, an excellent father, and a loyal and devoted husband. I am worth more than the way I've been treated. That being said it is still very difficult for me to play the part of confident Alpha male as I am and have always been "Mr. Nice Guy".

However, even with my "Nice Guy" tendencies I did manage to realize that I don't have to live in Limbo anymore. So I confronted my wife about all of this again. This time I was able to maintain a calm and level head, and I expressed to her that I am not going to be treated this way and that I have had enough. I explained to her that I wanted out of the marriage. She began the verbal attacks and the yelling and all of that. meanwhile I remained calm and in control of myself, even though I was a mess internally.

Later that evening she said that maybe we could work things out. Now, because I love my wife and I'm a softie it was very hard to prevent myself from grabbing her and holding her and telling her that everything would be all right, but I was able to maintain my control. I told her point blank that if that is really what she wanted then she would need to do everything in her power to rebuild the trust that she destroyed. I told her that she would have to have NC with the OM and that she would have to be completely transparent. I made it clear that it was her decision on whether or not she was willing to do that I could care less which route she chose.

Finally, before I was about to go to bed, she came to me crying up a storm, saying that she really does want to fix things. She sets her computer down on the coffee table and says that she is going NC with the OM and that she is giving me all her accounts and passwords and full access to her phone, etc.

Before I continue on, here's a side note. The day that I confronted my WW and told her that I am finished with this, I exposed the EA to my parents, siblings, her mother and sister, and the OMW. If I knew how/where to contact the OMs workplace, I would expose it to them as well. I'm sure that would make his life very uncomfortable if not extremely difficult as he is currently working as a government contractor with high level security clearance and from personal experience I can attest that jobs of that nature/level do not look kindly on any blemish upon your moral character.

Anyway, back to the main points. I am having a very difficult time with all of this at this point, once again due to how much I love my wife and my natural tendency to give in to her. It's almost textbook some of the things she is saying to me about the transparency that she is supposed to be giving me. Example: "I'm not saying I'm gonna change out my passwords and lock you out, but I don't have to feel good not having privacy." Also, I have not put any keylogger type programs/devices on her computer so I do not know if she has really given me ALL of her accounts. It is always possible that she has other secret accounts that she can use for communication. Additionally, she could always delete texts or FB msgs, emails before I've ever had a chance to log in and see them, so she could easily cover her tracks that way.

I do, however, have one very good source of information that right now is going to help in solving my dilema. On our cellphone bill website I am able to log into our account. From there I can see all of the calls she has made and received, including the dates/times/length of call/phone number called/etc. This is one of the reasons I was able to catch her. I can also see the number of text msgs that she has sent/received during the billing period, and all of these things update regularly. Basically, if I called her right now and spoke to her for a couple minutes and sent her a text right now, then within about 15 to 20 minutes, those things would show up on our cellphone account.

Now here's my current plan. I have already spoken with a lawyer to get my ducks in a row in case things look like they may go south. Last night, prior to going to bed, I verified the current status of her phone calls/texts. She had no calls that were of note and she had exactly 800 texts during this current billing cycle. This morning at work, at around 10:30am I checked it again. Just prior to that my wife and I had texted back and forth a total of 5 times. She sent me 3 texts and I sent her 2. Therefore, this will show up on in the online account as 5 text msgs to/from her phone. So she should have had a total of 805 when I looked at it. Her total was 856. Now this is not in itself damning evidence as these texts may all be innocent one between her and her mother or a friend. But here is where a little thinking comes in.

I will be leaving work in about 45 minutes to head for home. Before I leave I'm going to check the account one last time to get the current number. Upon arriving at home I am going to look at her phone to see how many text msgs she has on it that are between the time I looked on the account last night when there were only 800, and the time I look before I head home. For arguments sake lets say that the number stays at 856, and I know that 5 of them are between her and I. that leaves 51 text msgs unnaccounted for. When I look at her phone, if I don't find 51 text msgs still on her phone during the previously mentioned time frame, then I will know that she has been deleting text msgs so that I cannot see them.

If that is the case my next move will be to play along like nothing is wrong, and on Monday morning I will then be contacting my lawyer to set things in motion. I do know somewhat how to read my wife and based on the things that I've seen thus far, she is still reeling some from the hit of exposure that occurred when I confronted her. From what my lawyer has said, if I said "lets go" on Monday, he and I will sit down and draft up an agreement for division of assets/custody/etc, that is favorable for both parties, but ensures that I don't get screwed in anyway shape or form. Once that is ready I will hit her with it, along with any further evidence of her lying that I am able to dig up, and she will most likely sign it right then and there.

If she doesn't then my lawyer says we can be ready to file right then, because the first to file typically has an advantage.

Now if she is truly repentant and wants a True R, then she won't have deleted any texts, etc. If she is deceiving me yet again, then it is better to move on with my life.

Please feel free to post any advice you may have or ask any questions about things as I am an open book and want to share my experience with others and continue myself to learn from the experience of those who have gone before me.

Thank you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
593 Posts
Well, very....difficult to understand.

Now, the text could be to her friends, family, etc. to explain some things possibly that she couldn't do over the phone. My wife would call me when I was out of the house (BH like you) and leave voice mails. Couldn't understand a word she said.

But, I will tell you right now, I think your marriage is circling the drain.

She has cheated twice now.

I will tell you this:
Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
Fool me three time, why the #%& can't I leave you!?!

Now, you need to start verifying everything, and I think you did a good job. But I wonder if she has another fake email adress setup to talk with the OM. Because I am willing to bet she is. So get a key logger, and I would suggest figuring it all out.

Next, expose the affair to the OM's wife, girlfriend, parents, work, anywhere! Ruin his life!!! Because I love karma. Until it decides to hurt me....

Now, why did you lie about your smoking? I wonder if she possibly felt resentful you couldn't tell her about it. Then again, gives her zero right to cheat on you.

Now, pull a 180!
Means, you don't talk with her, you don't call her, you don't text her, she has to initiate all conversations/calls/texts, everything. It means ZERO affection. ZERO deep conversations. ZERO anything! You need to pull away from her. Because I think you are going to get hurt again. And if you think I am jaded because I am BH, well, I am reconciling. So I am a realist.

And you better start making more demands. Like, where did she meet the OM? Her job? Time for a career change.

But honestly, until you know what you want, we can only give you so much advice.

But if she didn't delete the text, we can help you out.

If she did, well, we got several people that can help you out.

BTW, if you can afford it, I have a sneaky suspusion that she'll try to take you to the cleaners. So what you want to do, is meet with all the high powered divorce lawyers in the area, that way if she does try to, she can't get a shark lawyer that will take you down. She'll have to settle for a lesser one, while you got a good one.

But hopefully it doesn't come to that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,003 Posts
What if her 51 messages were between her and a friend who she was talking to about relationship issues? Would she delete those? I know I would. I delete almost all of my messages except the ones I want to keep for whatever reason just because I dont like my phone all cluttered up.

What Im saying is that its hard to know whether she is talking to someone she shouldnt be just by you checking the number of texts. I dont know what carrier you have but you can go to the carrier and ask for a list of the numbers that texts were sent to and where they came from. It takes a couple of weeks but if you are on the account you just fill out the paperwork and they will send it to you.

Might be something to think about rather then assume that she is texting OM.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,715 Posts
What if, because of exposure she's contacted the OM to 'sign-off'? Of if he's contacted her to see if the damage is irreparable?

If so, that wouldn't account for 50+ texts. But then again, it could be questions/comments from the people you've exposed. Don't jump to conclusions too quickly.

I have to hand it to you. You've taken good steps so far.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,906 Posts
There's any number of ways your wife can communicate with the OM using her smartphone. There's specific texting apps like Textnow, or game apps like words with friends that support chatting. I'm just saying to to feel any confidence just because you can verify the number of text messages.

She could also have a cheap burner phone that you know nothing about.

C
Posted via Mobile Device
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,625 Posts
What if her 51 messages were between her and a friend who she was talking to about relationship issues? Would she delete those? I know I would. I delete almost all of my messages except the ones I want to keep for whatever reason just because I dont like my phone all cluttered up.

What Im saying is that its hard to know whether she is talking to someone she shouldnt be just by you checking the number of texts. I dont know what carrier you have but you can go to the carrier and ask for a list of the numbers that texts were sent to and where they came from. It takes a couple of weeks but if you are on the account you just fill out the paperwork and they will send it to you.

Might be something to think about rather then assume that she is texting OM.
Except if his conditions are full transparency, then her right to delete texts would be null and void. She needs to show him everything so that he can eventually learn to trust her again.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,403 Posts
I think you have an utterly reasonable plan and I support you in sticking with it.

Complete transparency means not only do I "let you" have my passwords and whatnot, but also that I do not hide things from you, and clearly she is still trying to hide something.... just not sure what.

I think you are on the right track. Either she can innocently show and reveal to you what happened, or file. You are being 100% reasonable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,625 Posts
I would definitely key log her

also don't forget about the possibility of her having a burner phone
I'm going to play devil's advocate here and state my thoughts. I'm not experienced with dealing with infidelity, but I'm experienced in being married. In almost every case it seems like a spouse can detect infidelity in its early stages. IMHO, it seems clear that no cheating spouse can maintain a facade consistently, and there are always "tells" that can show infidelity taking place. Becoming a clandestine operative makes sense if you live in a state here documenting infidelity can aid your divorce case. However, in no-fault states, it seems like an extra step that has minimal upside based on the amount of time needed to gather enough evidence to satisfy your need to know. It seems like many people will run their stings and will actually give the spouse enough rope to cheat for 2 or 3 extra months that they cannot get back. It doesn't make sense to me.

My thoughts are that it makes more sense to continue watching her like a hawk and checking her electronic communication devices and accounts. However, when a spouse who is supposed to be in recovery with you starts to put up more red flags like changing passwords, unaccounted for time or basically not making the BS their #1 concern - It would instantly tell me that something is off, that the WS is not fully into R and that the BS simply needs to pull the trigger.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,715 Posts
I guess I'm an old fart but I can't imagine sending 50 plus texts in a day, not to any one person, and not even if you add up all my friends together. Not 50 plus emails, or 50 plus phone calls either.
.
LOL guess I'm an old fart too!
We're having bad weather today and my son's been texting me "all day" so after reading your post I counted our texts (plus two automatic severe flooding texts) and totaled 10. !!!

So much for 'texting all day!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,485 Posts
Well done, but don't yield after you drop the hammer. Stick to the plan. You know what "seeing" means in the context of "I'm seeing another man" right?

Keep shedding your "Nice Guy" persona. You don't want it around when you get out of this relationship and you become available. Even though this one is probably not going to make it, read MMSL just to get the general idea. It will be invaluable, even in future casual relationships as well as you next, and hopefully successful, marriage.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,485 Posts
Hmmm - sounds to me you should be on the considering divorce or divorcing thread. It's really amazing to me how quickly so many on this forum say divorce, attorney, etc. I just shake my head all the time. Yes, of course, STD testing is the right thing to do. Yes, of course, a quick meeting with an attorney is good. But to say, if she doesn't do this right now it's a go with my attorney is just beyond what coping with infidelity is about, in my opinion.

Why was counseling never considered? Have you done extensive counseling? So quick to do this divorce thing after being so happy one moment, etc. just shows that you really must never have been that happy to have a chance again anyway. So good luck with the divorce and the new posting on divorce thread - not the coping with infidelity thread.

So I know I sound harsh, but I am doing the work --- the coping with infidelity work - I am going to counseling, my WH is going to therapy, we are going to groups. Now, don't get me wrong - in a year I may be on the divorce thread, but until then, I am at least doing the work. I just don't see too much work going on with this thread... Good luck. You asked for advice, after all.
While there are some similarities of behavior of men and women involved in covering up illicit sexual affairs, i.e. burner phones, gaslighting, crotch shaving, etc, the path to recovery, which may or may not be reconciliation, is somewhat divergent for men and women. Anything less than a hardassed approach to an adulterous wife is usually seen by her as a sign of BH weakness at best or, at worse, tacit acceptance of wittol status.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
9,914 Posts
You should visit doccool dot com and read about cheating wives and games they play upon discovery, because while I commend you for dealing with this directly, you are playing the game at a simple level, while your wife is experienced at hiding it and taking it underground.

And now, I don't believe it was only an EA. the message you cite shows it is clearly an ongoing PA
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
9,914 Posts
You should visit doccool dot com and read about cheating wives and games they play upon discovery, because while I commend you for dealing with this directly, you are playing the game at a simple level, while your wife is experienced at hiding it and taking it underground.

And now, I don't believe it was only an EA. the message you cite shows it is clearly an ongoing PA
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
918 Posts
Not sure if it's the same in USA, but in the UK a long text counts as several texts and on the bill it might show up as, say, 5 texts to one number when in fact it appears as one text to the sender/receiver.

This means that the one text to you may appear as 2 or more texts on a bill so simply totting up the number of texts can be very misleading.

You might already know this, but I didn't when I started checking on my WW.

Of course, it all depends on how your bill is broken down and so on but I thought I'd mention it just in case.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,273 Posts
"(Text with one of her girlfriends where she was discussing how she was seeing someone else behind my back)."

That's so far into being unacceptable that I wouldn't even fool with the texts at this point. But you're in the right frame of mind, so, 'keep calm and carry on'.

Note to Boogie: Someone can be in a divorce and still need support coping with the infidelity they were subjected to.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Badblood
1 - 20 of 53 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top