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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,
I am not sure whether I am in the correct section of this community; if this needs to be moved to another location, my apologies and please advise.
Anyway, a friend recommended this site to me.
Here is the shortest version of my story…
My wife (34) and I (40M) have been married for almost three years, together for five. We have no children. I recall—both with great fondness, but also with huge sadness—the first year and a half together. We could barely keep our hands off each other; our sex life was plentiful and varied. However, you can chart the slow but steady demise of our intimacy from the point I proposed to her.
The problem … well, I suppose there are two … so, the problems are: a) that it took me a long time to fully grasp that we were heading progressively to a ‘dead bedroom’, and b) when I did realize that I was in a DB, I certainly could have handled it better.
If that were the end of the story, I would just remain in DB communities for support. However, I now have reason to suspect that my wife is being unfaithful. I suppose what I am looking for is advice on how to uncover this discreetly and then, if the worst is imaginable, how to deal with the fallout.
 

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First, check her phone (or if you can't get those, phone records). Look for who she is calling (call logs). See if there is anyone/number you don't recognize that she is calling/texting a lot. IF so, JUST BECAUSE it is a woman's name in her contacts does NOT mean it's a woman.

Many here will suggest you get a VAR (Voice Activated Recorder) to be placed in her car or areas where you know she goes in the house to talk on the phone (to catch any phone conversations she has where she "thinks" she is alone -- this CANNOT be used for any legal proceeding -- it is JUST so that you can try to find out what is going on).

Look at her credit card/bank statements if you can -- see if there are any unusual expenditures....

WHY do you think she is being unfaithful? What clues/gut feelings are you having? Have you SPOKEN to her and asked why the dropoff in sex, touch, interactions, etc.? Why no intimacy? TALK with her (DO NOT accuse her)

IF REALLY in doubt, hire a PI -- they can usually get info pretty quick.
 

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Hi,
I am not sure whether I am in the correct section of this community; if this needs to be moved to another location, my apologies and please advise.
Anyway, a friend recommended this site to me.
Here is the shortest version of my story…
My wife (34) and I (40M) have been married for almost three years, together for five. We have no children. I recall—both with great fondness, but also with huge sadness—the first year and a half together. We could barely keep our hands off each other; our sex life was plentiful and varied. However, you can chart the slow but steady demise of our intimacy from the point I proposed to her.
The problem … well, I suppose there are two … so, the problems are: a) that it took me a long time to fully grasp that we were heading progressively to a ‘dead bedroom’, and b) when I did realize that I was in a DB, I certainly could have handled it better.
If that were the end of the story, I would just remain in DB communities for support. However, I now have reason to suspect that my wife is being unfaithful. I suppose what I am looking for is advice on how to uncover this discreetly and then, if the worst is imaginable, how to deal with the fallout.
What has she done that makes you suspect she has been unfaithful? You haven't given much of a clue here except lack of sex. That has other causes.

Can you give detail about your sex life? Like how often, does she orgasm, how do you initiate, how does she reject. You allude to not handling it well. What have you done about it so far and how did she react? Have you discussed it with her in any productive way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi jlg and BDNY,

Thanks for your quick responses.

JLG: those are all great pieces of advice—thanks. I will probably start with the phone records.
I suppose I should elaborate a little.

The DB was so incremental as to be difficult to notice: from several times a day at the outset, to a few times a week before marriage, to weekends, in the first year of marriage, and so on. Part of the unclarity around it was that in that the first year of marriage (summer 2020 – summer 2021), my work was just crazy and weeknight sex was not very realistic. But by summer of 2021, I had received a promotion; my schedule was so much better; and I was looking forward to a return to old (happy) ways.

However, things only declined from there. I spent the next 4-6 months becoming increasingly saddened by it, and I didn’t handle it so well. I tried to have discussions with my wife about it, and I felt I was fair: I wasn’t accusatory or confrontational. I looked at it as a problem we could, and should, resolve together. And to her credit, some of those initial discussions led to upswings, but after a few good weeks / a month or so, things would revert to the DB. It has felt like it is becoming an increasingly vicious cycle: the more I raise it, the more confrontational our relationship becomes; the less I raise it, the deeper we sink into a dead bedroom.

As for infidelity, I finally worked up the courage to tell my best friend (of 35 years) about this. At first, I was so ashamed to be in this problem, but he was great. And then when we had a catch-up at New Year’s, he sort of casually floated the idea of possible infidelity to explain the DB.

That blindsided me, as I just never would have figured her as in any way capable of infidelity—physical or emotional. I started just Googling ‘signs your spouse is unfaithful’, etc, and the more I read, the more concerned I became. She ticks a lot of boxes: hiding phone, smiling at texts, closing apps when I suddenly come in the room, some long radio silences when I travel on business, and of course the massive drop-off in sex. And when we do have sex, it is just becoming increasingly sad: honestly, in the last year, it feels like she doesn’t even enjoy it. I mean, she comes every time, I make sure of that. But once she has come, she all but says, ‘Hurry up and finish, for Pete's sake’. And where it used to be varied and adventurous, it is not that way any longer.

I feel quite paralyzed.
 

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Hi jlg and BDNY,

Thanks for your quick responses.

JLG: those are all great pieces of advice—thanks. I will probably start with the phone records.
I suppose I should elaborate a little.

The DB was so incremental as to be difficult to notice: from several times a day at the outset, to a few times a week before marriage, to weekends, in the first year of marriage, and so on. Part of the unclarity around it was that in that the first year of marriage (summer 2020 – summer 2021), my work was just crazy and weeknight sex was not very realistic. But by summer of 2021, I had received a promotion; my schedule was so much better; and I was looking forward to a return to old (happy) ways.

However, things only declined from there. I spent the next 4-6 months becoming increasingly saddened by it, and I didn’t handle it so well. I tried to have discussions with my wife about it, and I felt I was fair: I wasn’t accusatory or confrontational. I looked at it as a problem we could, and should, resolve together. And to her credit, some of those initial discussions led to upswings, but after a few good weeks / a month or so, things would revert to the DB. It has felt like it is becoming an increasingly vicious cycle: the more I raise it, the more confrontational our relationship becomes; the less I raise it, the deeper we sink into a dead bedroom.

As for infidelity, I finally worked up the courage to tell my best friend (of 35 years) about this. At first, I was so ashamed to be in this problem, but he was great. And then when we had a catch-up at New Year’s, he sort of casually floated the idea of possible infidelity to explain the DB.

That blindsided me, as I just never would have figured her as in any way capable of infidelity—physical or emotional. I started just Googling ‘signs your spouse is unfaithful’, etc, and the more I read, the more concerned I became. She ticks a lot of boxes: hiding phone, smiling at texts, closing apps when I suddenly come in the room, some long radio silences when I travel on business, and of course the massive drop-off in sex. And when we do have sex, it is just becoming increasingly sad: honestly, in the last year, it feels like she doesn’t even enjoy it. I mean, she comes every time, I make sure of that. But once she has come, she all but says, ‘Hurry up and finish, for Pete's sake’. And where it used to be varied and adventurous, it is not that way any longer.

I feel quite paralyzed.
The slow decline in sex is not the typical sign of infidelity. The other things you mention about her behavior with her phone is more of a concern.

Do you have open access to each other's phones, know each others pin to get into them? If not, why? There should be complete transparency. Definitely take a look at phone records to see if there are numbers that stand out in frequency and maybe timing of when you aren't home.

Sad fact is this could also be a loss of attraction and desire for you. That can be difficult to get back. Have you read Married Man's Sex Life Primer by Athol Kay? Or No More Mr Nice Guy. They are worth a reas. It is all about being the best you that you can be.
 

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If you use an Apple phone buy one of the Apple tags and put it link it to your phone and then put it in her car...or purse

If all else fails hire a PI....but also look to.see if she shower coming right home then heck her clothes.
 

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Phone records like other have said I will add a really cheap option especially with your current DB is Checkmate. It's a test kit with like 8 individual test to check her underwear after a trip or way or any time your suspicious and the kits are like $50 on Amazon or Walmart.com
 

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Hi jlg and BDNY,

Thanks for your quick responses.

JLG: those are all great pieces of advice—thanks. I will probably start with the phone records.
I suppose I should elaborate a little.

The DB was so incremental as to be difficult to notice: from several times a day at the outset, to a few times a week before marriage, to weekends, in the first year of marriage, and so on. Part of the unclarity around it was that in that the first year of marriage (summer 2020 – summer 2021), my work was just crazy and weeknight sex was not very realistic. But by summer of 2021, I had received a promotion; my schedule was so much better; and I was looking forward to a return to old (happy) ways.

However, things only declined from there. I spent the next 4-6 months becoming increasingly saddened by it, and I didn’t handle it so well. I tried to have discussions with my wife about it, and I felt I was fair: I wasn’t accusatory or confrontational. I looked at it as a problem we could, and should, resolve together. And to her credit, some of those initial discussions led to upswings, but after a few good weeks / a month or so, things would revert to the DB. It has felt like it is becoming an increasingly vicious cycle: the more I raise it, the more confrontational our relationship becomes; the less I raise it, the deeper we sink into a dead bedroom.

As for infidelity, I finally worked up the courage to tell my best friend (of 35 years) about this. At first, I was so ashamed to be in this problem, but he was great. And then when we had a catch-up at New Year’s, he sort of casually floated the idea of possible infidelity to explain the DB.

That blindsided me, as I just never would have figured her as in any way capable of infidelity—physical or emotional. I started just Googling ‘signs your spouse is unfaithful’, etc, and the more I read, the more concerned I became. She ticks a lot of boxes: hiding phone, smiling at texts, closing apps when I suddenly come in the room, some long radio silences when I travel on business, and of course the massive drop-off in sex. And when we do have sex, it is just becoming increasingly sad: honestly, in the last year, it feels like she doesn’t even enjoy it. I mean, she comes every time, I make sure of that. But once she has come, she all but says, ‘Hurry up and finish, for Pete's sake’. And where it used to be varied and adventurous, it is not that way any longer.

I feel quite paralyzed.
Oh boy. I’m not saying she’s cheating, but when you have more red flags than an Ivan Drago fight in Moscow, that’s not good. Has she mentioned anybody that peeks your interest? An old BF, somebody from work?
 

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Check the evidence-gathering thread in my sig line.
 

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I'm guessing she 'dazzled' you with sex in the beginning to get the ring. You yourself said that the sex started declining once you proposed to her. It ain't rocket science.

Did she eat any wedding cake at your wedding? Wedding cake has been known to completely squash a woman's sex drive. 😁

However, this latest behavior SCREAMS "affair" - hiding the phone from you, not being available when she's away, closing down apps when you walk into the room, etc. etc. That's pretty classic stuff. You need to SERIOUSLY start digging - but don't give her a head's up that you're suspicious!!!! Don't start questioning her or demanding answers about anything - you'll just be shooting yourself RIGHT in the foot because when a cheater knows you're suspicious, they just take their monkey business deeper underground and it makes YOUR job that much harder. So don't be foolish and make this any harder than it already is - got it?
 

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Hi jlg and BDNY,

Thanks for your quick responses.

JLG: those are all great pieces of advice—thanks. I will probably start with the phone records.
I suppose I should elaborate a little.

The DB was so incremental as to be difficult to notice: from several times a day at the outset, to a few times a week before marriage, to weekends, in the first year of marriage, and so on. Part of the unclarity around it was that in that the first year of marriage (summer 2020 – summer 2021), my work was just crazy and weeknight sex was not very realistic. But by summer of 2021, I had received a promotion; my schedule was so much better; and I was looking forward to a return to old (happy) ways.

However, things only declined from there. I spent the next 4-6 months becoming increasingly saddened by it, and I didn’t handle it so well. I tried to have discussions with my wife about it, and I felt I was fair: I wasn’t accusatory or confrontational. I looked at it as a problem we could, and should, resolve together. And to her credit, some of those initial discussions led to upswings, but after a few good weeks / a month or so, things would revert to the DB. It has felt like it is becoming an increasingly vicious cycle: the more I raise it, the more confrontational our relationship becomes; the less I raise it, the deeper we sink into a dead bedroom.

As for infidelity, I finally worked up the courage to tell my best friend (of 35 years) about this. At first, I was so ashamed to be in this problem, but he was great. And then when we had a catch-up at New Year’s, he sort of casually floated the idea of possible infidelity to explain the DB.

That blindsided me, as I just never would have figured her as in any way capable of infidelity—physical or emotional. I started just Googling ‘signs your spouse is unfaithful’, etc, and the more I read, the more concerned I became. She ticks a lot of boxes: hiding phone, smiling at texts, closing apps when I suddenly come in the room, some long radio silences when I travel on business, and of course the massive drop-off in sex. And when we do have sex, it is just becoming increasingly sad: honestly, in the last year, it feels like she doesn’t even enjoy it. I mean, she comes every time, I make sure of that. But once she has come, she all but says, ‘Hurry up and finish, for Pete's sake’. And where it used to be varied and adventurous, it is not that way any longer.

I feel quite paralyzed.
1. sorry you’re here.

2. Do you have the strength and capacity to take control of your situation and your relationship? Are you willing to place your dignity and self-respect above keeping a ****ty marriage?

That’s a serious and very important question. Because if you’re not willing and able to take bold action, and operate confidently and unapologetically on your terms, regardless of what she thinks about it or how she reacts, and walk away from your marriage if need be, nothing will help you and you will only fail slowly and endure far more misery.
In which case you may as well just stick your head back in the sand and forget the whole thing.

The only effective way forward is to stand up, take control of your situation and start setting immediate, non-negotiable boundaries and expectations - for your marriage, your wife, and for YOU. It sounds like you’ve been far too passive for far too long in your marriage, which has probably been an enabling factor in your current situation.

For the potential infidelity:
You can either take the covert path or the overt path. If you take the covert approach, just make sure you don’t use it as a way to procrastinate and kick the can down the road because you’re too passive and weak to actually do some thing about it.
The covert approach would be to keep your mouth shut and start investigating. There’s a “standard evidence post” around somewhere on this site that’ll offer some good guidance on how to get started.
The point of this approach is to gather enough evidence to know that something inappropriate is going on. It’s not about developing courtroom level proof.
The overt approach, is simply to recognize that there’s enough suspicious behavior to confront your wife and set immediate and non-negotiable boundaries.
For this approach, you actually have to be strong and committed, and willing to walk away if she fails to meet your requirements. Everything you need to know is probably on her phone. So take her phone and look through it. It’s not up to her, it’s a requirement of your continued commitment. Hopefully you already have access to her phone (you have an open phone policy right?), so you simply take it and look through it, and she doesn’t get a vote (well she does, but if she chooses not to comply, then her vote is to end the marriage). If she’s changed her password so that you can’t get into it, that probably tells you all you need to know. But you can take the phone and ask her for her password. If she refuses to provide it, you have your answer.

Dealing with your dead bedroom:
Assuming you’ve ruled out infidelity at this point, you still have a massive problem in your marriage - which has a high likelihood of turning into infidelity if it hasn’t yet.
If you want your dead bedroom situation to improve, you also need to be willing to stand up and take control of your situation. Stop being passive and start leading your wife in your marriage. Women respect strength and leadership, they despise weakness. I’m not suggesting that you’ve been weak (maybe you have, maybe you haven’t) but you certainly seem to be passive and resigned to the fate of a sad passionless marriage. You are in control of your situation and you can change it if you choose to.

The first thing you need to do is make a decision as to whether or not you will passively accept a sad, passionless, unfulfilling marriage or not. You need to decide whether you’re just looking for martyrdom and validation for your misery, or if you actually want to improve your life. Because a crappy marriage is a crappy life.

You are responsible for being the leader in your marriage. That means setting the tone of your interactions and relationship, as well as being attractive and not being unattractive as a man and a husband. Tell your wife what you expect out of your relationship together and then start behaving as such. Be playful, be flirtatious, tease her with a smile. Don’t expect her to respond right away, consider it practice.

Start doing things that make you more attractive, and stop doing things that make you unattractive. If you’ve gotten out of shape, start working out and get in better shape. Be more flirty and charming and fun. Show more confidence and leadership. Recognize it you’re acting whiny, needy, etc. and stop doing it. Above all, this is for you, not for her. If she asks what’s going on with you, just tell her I’m not willing to have a non-passionate, roommate marriage so we’re going to start changing that now. I realized I haven’t been leading in this and I’ve decided to change that as well. Start being affectionate and initiating physically but don’t act butthurt when she declines. Be consistent and don’t neglect any of this, give it 6 months. If she doesn’t start responding at that point, you need to clearly tell her that you won’t settle for a platonic roommate marriage (***** begrudging duty sex) and if that is all she is willing/ capable of, then it’s time to divorce. And you need to be serious, this can’t be a bluff.

You have to be willing to lose your marriage if you want any hope of reestablishing a romantic, sexual, fulfilling marriage.

She may come around, or she may not. But after 6 months of the above, you’ll be in a much better position either way.
 

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At this point, whether there's infidelity or is just the old bait and switch for the sex you should already be looking for a divorce lawyer to find out where you legally stand if divorce is the answer.

You must take this step to be prepared. Women in general are always way ahead of the man when it comes to divorce. By the time men try to react the woman already was a few miles ahead. If there's infidelity in your case, you need to be prepared and ready to dump her without hesitation; otherwise you get what ask for.
 

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Hi,
I am not sure whether I am in the correct section of this community; if this needs to be moved to another location, my apologies and please advise.
Anyway, a friend recommended this site to me.
Here is the shortest version of my story…
My wife (34) and I (40M) have been married for almost three years, together for five. We have no children. I recall—both with great fondness, but also with huge sadness—the first year and a half together. We could barely keep our hands off each other; our sex life was plentiful and varied. However, you can chart the slow but steady demise of our intimacy from the point I proposed to her.
The problem … well, I suppose there are two … so, the problems are: a) that it took me a long time to fully grasp that we were heading progressively to a ‘dead bedroom’, and b) when I did realize that I was in a DB, I certainly could have handled it better.
If that were the end of the story, I would just remain in DB communities for support. However, I now have reason to suspect that my wife is being unfaithful. I suppose what I am looking for is advice on how to uncover this discreetly and then, if the worst is imaginable, how to deal with the fallout.
Always trust your gut feeling and what to do for peace of mind:
To follow your wife`s activities it is extremely easy to be your own detective and most of it can be done at home on the computer from the comfort of your own armchair.
I guarantee that she will have either a facebook account, instigram or have profiles on other social networking sites or on multiple networking websites perhaps even ads on dating sites.

What you need:
Her email addresses
Mobile phone numbers
Any nicknames she uses
Actual Name
Residential address.
A clear facial photo.

First try typing in either her real name, nickname, phone numbers or emailing addresses into facebook in order to find her facebook account if you don`t have it. Check out her past and present activities on there including and most importantly, check out her friends list to see the type of people she is associating with.
Next type any of the information you already have about her including what I have listed above into various search engines, especially Google and see if she is mentioned in any of the lists that appear. Also do a Google image search. I bet my bottom dollar that this will yield in results. You will be amazed what results this will have just by only typing in an email address or mobile phone number.
Next go into a website called Pimeyes. It works by face recognition. The first 3 searches are free. You get 3 free searches every 24 hours. Upload a clear face photo of your wife and then click search. If she has any photos of her online the search will show them.
There are various free people, social networking search engines and image comparison searches also available online. If you discover photos of her online, download the photos onto your hard drive and do a Google and TinEye image search to see where else she has uploaded her photos she may be using on her profiles.
At one time a close friend asked me to conduct an online search on his girlfriend and within only 5 minutes I knew more about this person than my friend had known since the 2 years he was dating her. It transpired that this girl had a string of guys on the go.. It was all there in plain view.

My recommended above methods should be the first line of search and the hiring of a private detective that I have no doubts won`t be cheap could be considered as a last resort.
Also worth trying, is to get a friend or you follow her when she goes out and if getting a chance to unexpectedly turn up wherever she is and also if possible take a look at her cell phone to see who she`s communicating with.

One major point in all this, is that at all times you must act cool, as if suspecting nothing and the online searches must be discrete and the person unaware that these searches are taking place. Otherwise if she gets even a hint that her activities are under scrutiny, she will quickly make her profiles private or change her user names and other details so that it becomes extremely difficult to track her online.

If you find evidence that she is cheating, grab the evidence that can be used if this comes to a divorce.
Hopefully this leads to nothing, except to help give peace of mind.
Think about it.
 

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What kind of marriage is it if you need to spy on your wife? And if nothing is uncovered how would your wife feel? If I find out my wife hired a PI to spy on my under any pretext it would immediately kill our marriage. a marriage is based on trust. If there is no trust there is no marriage.

Why not to talk to your wife and ask her directly if she still loves you and if she is having or had an affair. Ask her why sex and intimacy stopped and you simply cannot have a DB marriage. Ask her straight who she is calling, why she has her phone locked.
 

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You are getting good advice and direction on how to look for a smoking gun.

The one thing I would add at this point is do NOT just come out and ask her if she is involved with someone else. If you do that she will just say no and then she will take the affair deeper underground and put more effort into covering her tracks.

You need to act as if all is well and that there isn't anything out of the ordinary at all. You want her guard to be down as much as possible.
 

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What kind of marriage is it if you need to spy on your wife? And if nothing is uncovered how would your wife feel? If I find out my wife hired a PI to spy on my under any pretext it would immediately kill our marriage. a marriage is based on trust. If there is no trust there is no marriage.

Why not to talk to your wife and ask her directly if she still loves you and if she is having or had an affair. Ask her why sex and intimacy stopped and you simply cannot have a DB marriage. Ask her straight who she is calling, why she has her phone locked.
The reason not to just ask is that she will simply lie or say that the AP is "just a friend" and then they will take their affair deeper underground and will cover her tracks even more.

The reason that the affair needs to be uncovered is that most affairs need the marriage intact in order to continue. Most WW's want BOTH the marriage with it's security and support and domestic trangquility as well as the rush and hot monkey sex of the affair. Most WWs realize the OM is not relationship/marriage material and most are not actually wanting to leave the marriage for the OM.... they want to have both at the same time.

Most OM also do not want the WW full time and just want the sex while the BH pays her bills and changes her flat tires in the rain etc. The OM wants the BH to take care of those things so she won't be asking him to do it.

So both the WW and the OM are motivated to keep their little secret and to maintain the status quo so they are motivated to lie and continue to cover up the affair as long as possible.

Just asking if she is involved elsewhere will only lead to her lying and keeping the affair a better kept secret and will continue the downward spiral of their marital sexlife indefinately.

By going undercover and discovering the existence of the affair sooner will allow the OP to take definitive action sooner and be able to get on with his life earlier rather than continuing to be manipulated and wallowing in limbo indefinitely.
 

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What kind of marriage is it if you need to spy on your wife? And if nothing is uncovered how would your wife feel? If I find out my wife hired a PI to spy on my under any pretext it would immediately kill our marriage. a marriage is based on trust. If there is no trust there is no marriage.

Why not to talk to your wife and ask her directly if she still loves you and if she is having or had an affair. Ask her why sex and intimacy stopped and you simply cannot have a DB marriage. Ask her straight who she is calling, why she has her phone locked.
Never do this. If your wife is cheating, she will lie and it then becomes way harder to uncover anything.
Fastest, most reliable method is to hire a PI.
 

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Never do this. If your wife is cheating, she will lie and it then becomes way harder to uncover anything.
Fastest, most reliable method is to hire a PI.
What's the ultimate goal? To gather forensic evidence for divorce proceedings. Or to save a marriage. You realize that the moment you undermine the trust and by hiring PI or spying on your spouse you undermine the trust you effectively signing off on your marriage.
 

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What's the ultimate goal? To gather forensic evidence for divorce proceedings. Or to save a marriage. You realize that the moment you undermine the trust and by hiring PI or spying on your spouse you undermine the trust you effectively signing off on your marriage.
If she is cheating, the loss of trust is squarely on her.

He has probable cause for further investigation here due to her drastic change in behavior as well as her suspicious behavior, that is on her.

As far as evidence for divorce vs saving the marriage - they are both one and the same. To make an informed decision on whether to divorce or work on the marriage, he must find out what is going on within the marriage. In order to fix the marriage, he has to find out what is wrong with it. And in order to divorce, he needs to know the depth of the dysfunction. Either way, he needs to know the reality of what is going on within the marriage.

Your position is nonsensical. She is the one undermining the trust by closing him out marital intimacy while at the same time engaging in highly suspicious activity. At this point he would be derelict and irresponsible by not looking into what is taking place here.

He cannot simply ask her because she has great motive to lie and cover up which will simply prolong the dysfunction and downward spiral of their relationship.
 
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