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Kettle,

1) You need to break into that phone. Much of what you need to know is in it.

2) That credit card, clearly the monthly bills are either online or going to her job. If online is she using a computer at home? If so install spyware. Run a credit check on her. You have her SS number on your tax returns. That will tell you what she is listing as a home address, like the hospital. You might find other debt she is creating behind your back. Myself, I would figure a way to to get a list of all the charges going back as far as you 2 were married.

3) VAR in the car along with a GPS.

4) Any friends at her work who can report on what she is doing?

Sorry you are here and hate to advise this but your posts have too many red flags to ignore. You have caught her in at least one glaring lie and there are probably more. Blurting out CUTE BIG GUY is too much. Right in front of your child.

Stop wasting time and just do it.

All this advice just seems counterproductive. What is the point really of all of this? This is why I tend to stay out of the infidelity forums. If you have to get a VAR, take your spouses phone, check all your bills, use a GPS tracker, spy through friends... All this advice that regularly comes up that people put weeks of effort into, the marriage is already toast. It's OVER!

Yeah you may be legally married on paper, but that is no kind of marriage. Just walk away sir. What is the point in torturing yourself going through all of this?

I don't mean to single out your advice btw Broken. I'm just using it as an example of what I see given all the time over here.

Do people really think that once you go down this path of spygate on your spouse that the marriage is salvageable at all? You are just prolonging the inevitable IMO. Just get out as quickly and painlessly as possible. Doing all this crap! What happens when you find dirt? You blow up and act stupid? Increase the chances of a knock down drag out divorce battle 10 fold?

Just go file, hand her the papers yourself, and say its just not working but you want to be fair in the split and will work as hard as you can towards being a good co-parent for your daughter and you hope she will do the same.
 

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All this advice just seems counterproductive. What is the point really of all of this? This is why I tend to stay out of the infidelity forums. If you have to get a VAR, take your spouses phone, check all your bills, use a GPS tracker, spy through friends... All this advice that regularly comes up that people put weeks of effort into, the marriage is already toast. It's OVER!

Yeah you may be legally married on paper, but that is no kind of marriage. Just walk away sir. What is the point in torturing yourself going through all of this?

I don't mean to single out your advice btw Broken. I'm just using it as an example of what I see given all the time over here.

Do people really think that once you go down this path of spygate on your spouse that the marriage is salvageable at all? You are just prolonging the inevitable IMO. Just get out as quickly and painlessly as possible. Doing all this crap! What happens when you find dirt? You blow up and act stupid? Increase the chances of a knock down drag out divorce battle 10 fold?

Just go file, hand her the papers yourself, and say its just not working but you want to be fair in the split and will work as hard as you can towards being a good co-parent for your daughter and you hope she will do the same.
He still loves her, they have a young child together and he deserves to know the truth.
 

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All this advice just seems counterproductive. What is the point really of all of this? This is why I tend to stay out of the infidelity forums. If you have to get a VAR, take your spouses phone, check all your bills, use a GPS tracker, spy through friends... All this advice that regularly comes up that people put weeks of effort into, the marriage is already toast. It's OVER!
Some of this advice applies, and is offered knowing full well the marriage is over.

There are still many variables in working out a divorce.

The right information can and often is leveraged for some specific outcome.

This is more like business negotiations than relationship counseling, where knowing your clients and your competition makes a difference.

Maybe check out some of @Taxman 's posts for quick reading.
 

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He still loves her, they have a young child together and he deserves to know the truth.
The truth about what exactly? I guess if he lives in a fault state, sure. If her infidelity will play no difference whatsoever in the eyes of the law, I would say just make the move to get the hell out asap with as little pain as possible.

The risks outweigh the potential rewards in most cases. So no, I don't really understand the need for further truths beyond the only truth that really matters, which is the marriage is over. Time to just get out and get on with your life. Rip the bandaid off and move along down the road.
 

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The truth about what exactly? I guess if he lives in a fault state, sure. If her infidelity will play no difference whatsoever in the eyes of the law, I would say just make the move to get the hell out asap with as little pain as possible.

The risks outweigh the potential rewards in most cases. So no, I don't really understand the need for further truths beyond the only truth that really matters, which is the marriage is over. Time to just get out and get on with your life. Rip the bandaid off and move along down the road.
The truth if his marriage was one big lie. For many people not knowing eats at them for years and can be the cause of lasting emotional damage that they carry a long time - affecting future relationships and even teh relationship with their children . They play back scenarios over and over and wonder. It eats at them like a cancer.

Dude, what might work for you and some people does not necessarily work for everyone else. I do agree, some people see the flags, call it in and walk away happy. But not everyone.
 

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Passwords that keep spouses off are a huge red flag. I can look on my wife's phone, computer, and check her credit cards if I want to do so. And I'm just as open to her. I can see her electronic trail, and she can see mine.
 

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That is good advice for the most part. I am working on finding out more about this guy. Currently I do not even know his name. I am hoping VAR will tell me more.

As for the marriage I am definitely mixed. If anybody else I would tell them to get out. I just look at my little girl and I am sure she would be crushed if her mom and I were divorced. I have two cousins who are still married only because of the kids. One said to me a while ago I never thought I would stay in a bad marriage for the sake of the children, and now here I am he said.
Staying in a marriage for the sake of the kids does not really help the kids. The children will learn that their parents' dysfunctional marriage is all that they can expect when they are grown and married, or in a relationship. Is that really what you want your children to learn?
 

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Discussion Starter #89
Some of this advice applies, and is offered knowing full well the marriage is over.

There are still many variables in working out a divorce.

The right information can and often is leveraged for some specific outcome.

This is more like business negotiations than relationship counseling, where knowing your clients and your competition makes a difference.

Maybe check out some of @Taxman 's posts for quick reading.
I will get screwed over in this divorce. My wife comes from a family of lawyers. One of whom is a top divorce attorney in the state. She siblings and relatives who work for one of the top 100 law firms in the country. One has argued two cases before the state supreme court and won.

The truth about what exactly? I guess if he lives in a fault state, sure. If her infidelity will play no difference whatsoever in the eyes of the law, I would say just make the move to get the hell out asap with as little pain as possible.

The risks outweigh the potential rewards in most cases. So no, I don't really understand the need for further truths beyond the only truth that really matters, which is the marriage is over. Time to just get out and get on with your life. Rip the bandaid off and move along down the road.
In the OPs post he specifically said he needs to know. I am replying to what he posts. If he posted he was ready to walk away then I would reply to that.
You are correct I know that in my brain.

The truth if his marriage was one big lie. For many people not knowing eats at them for years and can be the cause of lasting emotional damage that they carry a long time - affecting future relationships and even teh relationship with their children . They play back scenarios over and over and wonder. It eats at them like a cancer.

Dude, what might work for you and some people does not necessarily work for everyone else. I do agree, some people see the flags, call it in and walk away happy. But not everyone.
Yup one big lie is true. I want to make sure I am 100% right or as close to that before I accuse her of anything here.

Passwords that keep spouses off are a huge red flag. I can look on my wife's phone, computer, and check her credit cards if I want to do so. And I'm just as open to her. I can see her electronic trail, and she can see mine.
I could probably just ask to look at my wifes phone. She lets me use it to call my phone if it I lose and cannot find it.
 

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If she ****s around I will do the same to her, and I wont use a condom either.
I think I am to afraid to move on at the moment.
You're just proof of what I always say - most men will stay in a miserable marriage as long as they can, and use all kinds of ridiculous excuses to do so because they're too damned afraid to go out in the world and fend for themselves. And that's why women initiate 75% of divorces in the US. You're the reason WHY.

Not surprised that you're clinging like grim death to this slow-motion train wreck of a marriage.

But the childish nonsense about cheating and not using a condom sounds like something an 18 year old teenager would say. Your marriage sucks but you don't have to be a tool and possibly pick up an STD to spread around or worse yet, knock up some woman you pick up off Craigslist or meet in a bar because of it. Jesus.

If you want to stay in a sham of a marriage, that's your business. But you're expecting her to act like someone whose IN a real marriage when she's not.

You can't suck and blow at the same time.
 

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Discussion Starter #91
You're just proof of what I always say - most men will stay in a miserable marriage as long as they can, and use all kinds of ridiculous excuses to do so because they're too damned afraid to go out in the world and fend for themselves. And that's why women initiate 75% of divorces in the US. You're the reason WHY.

Not surprised that you're clinging like grim death to this slow-motion train wreck of a marriage.

But the childish nonsense about cheating and not using a condom sounds like something an 18 year old teenager would say. Your marriage sucks but you don't have to be a tool and possibly pick up an STD to spread around or worse yet, knock up some woman you pick up off Craigslist or meet in a bar because of it. Jesus.

If you want to stay in a sham of a marriage, that's your business. But you're expecting her to act like someone whose IN a real marriage when she's not.

You can't suck and blow at the same time.
1. Despite what I said I highly doubt I would cheat on her out of revenge. If I did I wouldn't use a condom I have hardly ever used them. I was just angry when I wrote that comment.

2. Men cheat because they can't keep their dik in their pants. Women cheat because they cant keep the legs closed. Now in both cases they come up with all kinds of BS excuses to jusfity the choices they have made. It does not matter how alpha the man is (I have two relatives one a top lawyer and the other an international sports team coach. Both at the top of their respective fields and their wives cheated on them with lesser males. Likewise a woman could be a super model and a man will still cheat using some lame ass excuse.

3.No, I want her to tell me. I told her if you ever meet somebody else, just tell me is all I ask. She flew off the handle when I said that to her. What am most angry at hear is the possible deception. I used to date an EX hooker years ago. Turned out she was the most honest woman I have ever had a relationship with. She would tell me everything. Sometimes it hurt but at least I knew.
Here I don't know what is going on.

4. She does not have to act like she is in a real marriage. We could come to some other arrangement or divorce. I just want to know the hell is going on.
 

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All this advice just seems counterproductive. What is the point really of all of this? This is why I tend to stay out of the infidelity forums. If you have to get a VAR, take your spouses phone, check all your bills, use a GPS tracker, spy through friends... All this advice that regularly comes up that people put weeks of effort into, the marriage is already toast. It's OVER!
When your marriage is suffering from a hundred cuts and none of them are sufficient enough to properly put it to death, a final death blow is needed.

A final shot, the smoking gun as witness.

If Kettle can prove infidelity decisively, he can die and be reborn.

He presently remains in bleak, cold, barren Siberia.

Prove infidelity.

VAR, VAR, VAR......Dive, Dive, Dive....Dig.


Get the proof to finish this dime store novel.

Find the guilty straw.Lay it atop the red flag heap.

Break your splay-legged marital-camels back.



TT-1
 

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I will get screwed over in this divorce. My wife comes from a family of lawyers. One of whom is a top divorce attorney in the state. She siblings and relatives who work for one of the top 100 law firms in the country. One has argued two cases before the state supreme court and won. .
All the more reason to have your ducks in a row and not make any mistakes.

Except for leveraging information for a specific outcome, or controlling the narrative or spin for reputation sake, say for professional viability for example, a lot of it is divorce by the numbers.

Consulting a good tough lawyer as soon as you know action is on the horizon is paramount.

Any lawyers you have a consult with will be off limits to her but you cant take that too far.

Who knows how honorable and confidential any of them are. Did I really just write that?

Pardon me for asking if you have answered already. Of the two of you who earns more.

Does she work 12 hour shifts, and how many days a week?
 

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3.No, I want her to tell me. I told her if you ever meet somebody else, just tell me is all I ask. She flew off the handle when I said that to her. What am most angry at hear is the possible deception. I used to date an EX hooker years ago. Turned out she was the most honest woman I have ever had a relationship with. She would tell me everything. Sometimes it hurt but at least I knew.
Here I don't know what is going on.

4. She does not have to act like she is in a real marriage. We could come to some other arrangement or divorce. I just want to know the hell is going on.
See, this is what I have been saying. Primarily because of your ambivalence. I would feel the same under the circumstances.

I almost never advocate having a heart to heart with a cheater because (one they have no heart), and it only serves to warn them, and they then take it more underground and become more careful.

But I kind of feel like after some evidence gathering necessitated because of the imminent likely physical escalation, that at some point you really should tell her how you feel, and your concerns about this guy in a vulnerable and honest way.

Offer her that if this is inevitable, than she can do it in as honest and as honorable a way as possible and hurt you the less.

You dont have to tell her at the time that this door swings both ways and/or assures a divorce.

You can't predict how you will feel or make any promises.

At least you could gauge her reaction this way. Does she dismiss it, or does she make a few inquiries, i.e. "so you would be ok with that", "do you think you could handle that", etc?

You can call her on it later if it is useful and necessary.

Although if she was very dismissive or flies off the handle, I might put her in a no win situation assuming my gut is true and say, "I am sorry to see that you are choosing the path of dishonesty and betrayal.", and then dismiss her protestations.

I would then have her served and ever refuse to discuss it if it got to that point.
 

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This may have been said already, but your wife may be trying to get your attention and make you jealous. An effort to breath life into the dying marriage.

Seems to me instead of giving up you should both be learning what each other's needs are and meeting them. Spending time together doing exciting things. Romancing the stone and what not.
Read marriage books and take action to fix this. Be a problem-solver not an avoider and quitter.
 

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I will get screwed over in this divorce. My wife comes from a family of lawyers. One of whom is a top divorce attorney in the state. She siblings and relatives who work for one of the top 100 law firms in the country. One has argued two cases before the state supreme court and won.

@VermiciousKnid, would retaining another lawyer at the same firm prevent this relative from representing the ww?
 

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1.Helicopter guy is not a pilot. He is a paramedic in the back of the medical evacuation chopper. Now I also looked at the company website and it states they can give "ride alongs" to emergency room personnel which my wife is as she is a nurse at the hospital.

2. Discovered wife had an extra 5000 dollars of credit card debt she tried to keep from me. Some from before we were married and some just after.

3. 2-3 weeks ago I found a credit card when I was going to buy stuff for our camping trip. Wife said grab it out of my purse. I pulled out the "wrong" one. She looked startled and said of that is an old before we were married and does not work. So, 3 minutes ago I tried it online hoping it would not work. Surprise, surprise it worked! Card is still active despite the lie she told me.


4. A couple of days after she blurted out about "cute big guy" and about an hour after we had sex she said hugged me and said "your the only one for me." Maybe nothing but I though unusual considering the comment a couple of days earlier.
1) Ride alongs are fine. The problem is he is using it to get to your wife.

2) Big huge red flag. The fact she would hide something like this is not just a lie but an indication of her basic roadmap for your marriage. In her mind it is ok to lie to you when she doesn't want you to know something. In this case it is something which may have been a deal-breaker for you. She is ok with manipulating you via lies to get what she wants even when she knows you would oppose it. This is financial infidelity as well as basic dishonesty (which violates her vows and is thus an infidelity).

3) Her financial infidelity continues, as she keeps this previous account going so that she can spend without your knowledge. She is lying to you by hiding it. And, she is obligating your labors to pay off the debt which she is accruing.

4) Yup, as others have said she is love bombing you. She is manipulating you with sex. This woman is in no way trustworthy, loyal, or loving.
 

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No going to be easy to get phone as she has it with her most of the time. Also a very light sleeper.
My WS was the same. I will tell you how I found out about her affiar.

I was not really suspecting a PA. I was too sure that she would NEVER do that while married. I was 100% sure.

Then I had an infection and I was on medication for which drinking even a tiny bit of alcohol would cause a severe reaction. At that time, we both were in the habit of drinking before bed. Sometimes a lot. I had to stop but of course she kept drinking.

One of these nights, I hear her phone buzzing. I see it is a text from her AP. At the time I thought it was an EA and she been letting me monitor her phone to confirm that it was an EA. I'm sure now the AP and WS had a system worked out where they would only say incriminating things when WS could delete them before I could find them. So this time though, she had passed out drunk while still texting the AP. I would have been as well except for the medication.

So I saw it. A series of texts discussing that she was pregnant and that it was possible that it was the AP's child. Ugh.

Moral of the story, get your W drunk and stay sober, then check out her phone.
 

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Discussion Starter #99
When your marriage is suffering from a hundred cuts and none of them are sufficient enough to properly put it to death, a final death blow is needed.

A final shot, the smoking gun as witness.

If Kettle can prove infidelity decisively, he can die and be reborn.

He presently remains in bleak, cold, barren Siberia.

Prove infidelity.

VAR, VAR, VAR......Dive, Dive, Dive....Dig.


Get the proof to finish this dime store novel.

Find the guilty straw.Lay it atop the red flag heap.

Break your splay-legged marital-camels back.



TT-1
Yes, I want validation here to move on. I know she is lying about the finances.


All the more reason to have your ducks in a row and not make any mistakes.

Except for leveraging information for a specific outcome, or controlling the narrative or spin for reputation sake, say for professional viability for example, a lot of it is divorce by the numbers.

Consulting a good tough lawyer as soon as you know action is on the horizon is paramount.

Any lawyers you have a consult with will be off limits to her but you cant take that too far.

Who knows honorable and confidential any of them are. Did I really just write that?

Pardon me for asking if you have answered already. Of the two of you who earns more.

Does she work 12 hour shifts, and how many days a week?
We earn around the same. She works 3 12 hour shifts on average.


See, this is what I have been saying. Primarily because of your ambivalence. I would feel the same under the circumstances.

I almost never advocate having a heart to heart with a cheater because (one they have no heart), and it only serves to warn them, and they then take it more underground and become more careful.

But I kind of feel like after some evidence gathering necessitated because of the imminent likely physical escalation, that at some point you really should tell her how you feel, and your concerns about this guy in a vulnerable and honest way.

Offer her that if this is inevitable, than she can do it in as honest and as honorable a way as possible and hurt you the less.

You dont have to tell her at the time that this door swings both ways and/or assures a divorce.

You can't predict how you will feel or make any promises.

At least you could gauge her reaction this way. Does she dismiss it, or does she make a few inquiries, i.e. "so you would be ok with that", "do you think you could handle that", etc?

You can call her on it later if it is useful and necessary.

Although if she was very dismissive or flies off the handle, I might put her in a no win situation assuming my gut is true and say, "I am sorry to see that you are choosing the path of dishonesty and betrayal.", and then dismiss her protestations.

I would then have her served and ever refuse to discuss it if it got to that point.
I would probably wait till I get more evidence before I bring it up to her. If I have no evidence she will totally fly off the handle I sure of that.


This may have been said already, but your wife may be trying to get your attention and make you jealous. An effort to breath life into the dying marriage.

Seems to me instead of giving up you should both be learning what each other's needs are and meeting them. Spending time together doing exciting things. Romancing the stone and what not.
Read marriage books and take action to fix this. Be a problem-solver not an avoider and quitter.
I have wondered about this. She just bought No More Mr Nice Guy. Don't know if she will read it or not.

@VermiciousKnid, would retaining another lawyer at the same firm prevent this relative from representing the ww?
Good question. Although there is no way I could afford a lawyer from this firm. These lawyers at this firm are making 500k per year.
 

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Kettle,
2) That credit card, clearly the monthly bills are either online or going to her job. If online is she using a computer at home? If so install spyware. Run a credit check on her. You have her SS number on your tax returns. That will tell you what she is listing as a home address, like the hospital. You might find other debt she is creating behind your back. Myself, I would figure a way to to get a list of all the charges going back as far as you 2 were married.
Two specific comments about the credit card. First, get all the back records because it may show she has been cheating. What has she purchased and where? Sexy underwear never seen at home? Hotel rooms? Second, run a credit report on her. The credit bureaus give a free report. You will need her SS #, and you may be asked multiple choice questions like which address or which car loan did she have in the last 5 years. Strictly speaking it may not be legal for you to pull her report, idk. As a spouse maybe? Anyhow, it is what I would do. Other debt or other bank accounts may show up.
 
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