[morituri]

I agree it is a sick perversion, but that's all it is. To lay it out as a symbol of our society going downhill is a bit of a stretch though. It may be increasing, but increasing from a tiny minority to a tiny minority +. The one or two forums I went on after reading your post appeared to be more of a "Penthouse Forum" type of format than a true "here's what's going on in my life" forum.

Someone hit it a little earlier. There have been quite a few threads lately that indicate women are really trying to catch up in the infidelity department. The GNO's, Bachelorette parties, acting single. Basically "It's my turn" reasoning for a little extramarital action. I would say that's what is causing the increase more than anything.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

It's ludicrous to believe that this tiny minority of pervs are a societal force to be reckon with.

We're REALLY in trouble if this is being caused by women, after 5,000 years of civilization, are finally figuring out they've held the power all along. If that's happening, we men are screwed.

Screwed? Hardly. Men or women can only have power either two ways: by force or seduction. The former is too messy and the results are mixed at best. The latter is much more effective but its effectiveness last until the seduced no longer experience pleasure and take back the power they gave them.

I will say this though, the day men start losing their sexual desire for women because of environmental toxins, will be the day Humanity's days are numbered. Low sperm count is already a fact in many industrialized nations and low testosterone levels are following. We are swimming in a sea of estrogen - man boobs anyone?

 

[fhg1893]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

It's ludicrous to believe that this tiny minority of pervs are a societal force to be reckon with.

Well, I don't have any statistics, and I think that getting them would be difficult. But your attempt to minimalize the problem out of existence seems to reflect deliberate ignorance.

But the problem as you characterize it isn't that a minority of people are shaping the culture. For one, they aren't. But as an indicator of our culture's overall health, this is a worrisome trend. You've started thinking that I'm that cuckolding is going to somehow infect everyone. Not so. This trend could be an indicator of cultural health. This isn't directing the culture, it's the pustule that shows up on the skin indicating that the patient is terminally ill.

Screwed? Hardly. Men or women can only have power either two ways: by force or seduction. The former is too messy and the results are mixed at best.

Force isn't going away any time soon. In fact, it's being used more and more to settle disputes.

I will say this though, the day men start losing their sexual desire for women because of environmental toxins, will be the day Humanity's days are numbered. Low sperm count is already a fact in many industrialized nations and low testosterone levels are following. We are swimming in a sea of estrogen - man boobs anyone?

Toxins are nothing compared to those who go upon two legs.

There are currently some 750 "zones of cultural sensitivity" in France. These areas are places where French police do not enter, because they're afraid of a violent backlash if they try to enforce French laws, on French soil. In other words, the French police need to "man up" and do their jobs, and the politcal will needs to back them to the hilt. That this will has so far been lacking could be taken as an indicator of France's cultural health.

Now my question is, in the clash of cultures, because we are in a clash of cultures, males pushing their wives to seek out and have intercourse with other men because they feel inadequate as males is troubling. Did these feelings occur on their own, or is there something in the culture planting these feelings? I suspect that there is. I suspect that the culture, rather than telling these males to "man up" and "be all that you can be," "aim high" "become an alpha," the culture is telling these males that they are fundamentally flawed, and they've completely bought into it. They're in full denial about their own worth and potential, and when the barbarians decided that they've had enough of our western decadence, what shall we do with a growing population of males that have been told repeatedly and in no uncertain terms that they're worthless? What happens when the men, who have historically risked life, and limb to build and defend their homes and families decide to hide behind their dominant wives, offering them to the clearly superior alpha-male barbarians? What happens to ideas of democracy, the presumption of innocence in a culture like that?

I'm pretty damned sure that those ideas, along with everything else that oh, America is supposed to stand for, are going to get raped along with the wives of cowardly cuckold men, and we'll have no one to blame but ourselves, because in the critical moments, we didn't smell the danger.

 

[Conrad]

The current birthrates in Italy, Spain, Japan, and Russia, won't support the population.

What this means is that in 20-25 years, there will be "half" the number of Italians in Italy, Spaniards in Spain, and Russians in Russia.

Therefore, something called "Italy" will still be on the map, but it won't look anything like what we currently call "Italy".

 

[Runs like Dog]

The current birthrates in Italy, Spain, Japan, and Russia, won't support the population.

What this means is that in 20-25 years, there will be "half" the number of Italians in Italy, Spaniards in Spain, and Russians in Russia.

Therefore, something called "Italy" will still be on the map, but it won't look anything like what we currently call "Italy".

Of course it will still be there. It will be filled with ex North Africans, its language will be Italian and Arabic and the Catholic church will share mind space with Islam. Italian is a semi-official language in Libya, has been since the 1920's.

Russia is a unique problem, since the fall of the 3CP the life expectancy has crashed. A Russian man's life expectancy in Russia today is 57 or 58. This is a result of a resurgence of old diseases, a collapse of infrastructure and alcoholism.

 

[Runs like Dog]

Another aspect of Italy is that men often, very often, live with their mom's well into their mid-30's. They're not getting married or even having long term monogamous relationships that involve children.

 

[Conrad]

Another aspect of Italy is that men often, very often, live with their mom's well into their mid-30's. They're not getting married or even having long term monogamous relationships that involve children.

Yet, other men don't seem nearly so inhibited about becoming fathers. Their children will inherit that land.

And, it will happen sooner than many realize.

 

[Runs like Dog]

A more pressing issue for them is they are running out of people to work to pay for the lavish social welfare benefits of their elders. The recent firestorm in Greece goes directly back to the fact that nearly 1/3rd of the entire workforce is a civil servant and they are guaranteed 80% pensions at age 53.

5 years ago or so, Italy raised their retirement age to 57 or 59 and there were mass demonstrations.

France has a legally mandated 37.5 hr work week with almost 2 months off per year. Which is fine as long as you collect socialist level taxes, which they do - in the realm of 60% and more. But they too are running out of workforce to do that.

Spain has a nearly permanent structural unemployment rate of 21.9%. There's no one left to work. And because of their social benefits there's a lot more to do with all that free time than have sex and make more Spaniards.

 

[Conrad]

The real fallacy is they thought they could import the labor from the middle east to support the lavish welfare state.

Sadly, the joke is on them.

I hear much consternation about Iran developing nuclear arms. I'm a bit more concerned about the arsenal of the Islamic Republic of France.

 

[fhg1893]

Indeed, in Quebec, the government has started to subsidize fertility treatments for infertile couples because their population is in decline, plus, they really don't like immigrants.

At least we're starting to talk culture.

So, what I'm seeing is a culture that is poisonous to men. Masculinity is considered passé, and primitive. Yet, we've hardly outgrown the need for a positivist masculinity; we need it now more than ever. And all of these submissive sorts of males are a huge step back for us.

 

[Conrad]

Indeed, in Quebec, the government has started to subsidize fertility treatments for infertile couples because their population is in decline, plus, they really don't like immigrants.

At least we're starting to talk culture.

So, what I'm seeing is a culture that is poisonous to men. Masculinity is considered passé, and primitive. Yet, we've hardly outgrown the need for a positivist masculinity; we need it now more than ever. And all of these submissive sorts of males are a huge step back for us.

On a related note, we've got a guy in another thread who is hoping his wife will "step back up" to 1x/month.

 

[Jellybeans]

I don't think it's a "nice man" thinig. I think some people genuinely get off on seeing their wife with another man.

If they don't and they tolerate it and are upset, then they have no one to blame but themself. Allowing/wanting your partner to sleep with someone in front of you is NOT the same as getting cheated on behind your back.

 

[Conrad]

I don't think it's a "nice man" thinig. I think some people genuinely get off on seeing their wife with another man.

If they don't and they tolerate it and are upset, then they have no one to blame but themself. Allowing/wanting your partner to sleep with someone in front of you is NOT the same as getting cheated on behind your back.

I know people who have done it.

I know people that have gotten upset when they saw it.

It always felt to me like opening a door to a dark room.

 

[fhg1893]

On a related note, we've got a guy in another thread who is hoping his wife will "step back up" to 1x/month.

When do we start advising people to pull the plug? My wife has told me that she considers it a marital duty to put out. She doesn't put a number on it, but I get the sense that we're talking about 2-3 times per month, minimum.

We'd make exceptions for exceptional circumstances of course.

Is it a marital duty to have sex at least a few times a month?

Further, what do you say to a male who's so debased himself that nobody takes him seriously anymore? It's like marital vows don't mean anything anymore. I swore to be exclusive to my wife, and to break that should be treated as terminating and discharging the whole contract. I want to say, "Guy, if your partner is running around and denying you sex, then it's time to GTFO." In other words, MAN THE F*&K UP! Any self-respecting man should, and probably would. But these cucks...? They ASKING in some cases to get screwed by their wive's lovers, litterally and figuratively!

Whatever that is, it's not a marriage...

 

[fhg1893]

I don't think it's a "nice man" thinig. I think some people genuinely get off on seeing their wife with another man.

Most in the **** lifestyle certainly do "enjoy" their wives with other men. But they themselves don't have the stones to go out and be with other women. If infidelity is going to be the norm, so to speak, then shouldn't it cut both ways?

 

[Jellybeans]

It always felt to me like opening a door to a dark room.

I totally agree.

Is it a marital duty to have sex at least a few times a month?

That is entirely up to the married couple to decide what works best for them.

Most in the **** lifestyle certainly do "enjoy" their wives with other men. But they themselves don't have the stones to go out and be with other women.

Then that is their issue to deal with.

 

[fhg1893]

That is entirely up to the married couple to decide what works best for them.

You'd think so, and I should hope so, but I'm not so sure. If marriage is considered a legal contract which the courts are not shy about enforcing upon dissolution, then what are the obligations of that contract?

From that perspective it seems that we have either to redifine legal marriage to mean a contractual arrangement, or we should get rid of the legal side of marriage. If two people want to get together and be married, then that's their perogative, but there should be no state intervention allowed if they get a divorce.

Then that is their issue to deal with.

If we've poisoned masculinity and manhood, then it's actually our issue to deal with.

 

[Jellybeans]

I totally disagree with both of your statements.

If marriage is considered a legal contract which the courts are not shy about enforcing upon dissolution, then what are the obligations of that contract?

No court or government should be able to stipulate how many times a couple f-cks.

It's frightening to me that anyone would want a governent dictating legally how many times a married couple has sex.

If we've poisoned masculinity and manhood, then it's actually our issue to deal with.

Who is "we?" It's a personal choice if couples choose to engage in swinging or if someone allows/chooses to or tolerate their wife having sex with another man. That doesn't affect anyone's life but that couples'. And it is something 100% between that couple.

Not everyone wants/agrees to the same things. As long as it doesn't affect my personal life and isn't harming other people, I don't really don't care what other people find acceptable in their relationship or sex life.

 

[Trenton]

Taken in hand relationship in reverse as the woman has all the power. I think both are a manifestation of some hidden psych issues.

 

[fhg1893]

I totally disagree with both of your statements.

And you've also failed to consider the latter option in my solution.

No court or government should be able to stipulate how many times a couple f-cks.

It's frightening to me that anyone would want a governent dictating legally how many times a married couple has sex.

It's still being done after a fashion. Catholics can obtain an annulment for a marriage which has not been consumated. If this frightens you then the desired solution would be to remove legal recognition and obligation from marriage, or, to explicitly dictate all terms of a marriage agreement by way of legal contract.

I'm not sure how I feel about either option.

Who is "we?" It's a personal choice if couples choose to engage in swinging or if someone allows/chooses to or tolerate their wife having sex with another man. That doesn't affect anyone's life but that couples'. And it is something 100% between that couple.

Not everyone wants/agrees to the same things. As long as it doesn't affect my personal life and isn't harming other people, I don't really don't care what other people find acceptable in their relationship or sex life.

My libertarian political leanings are inclined to agrees. But we don't live in a libertarian culture. And culture is very much our responsibility. I believe that culture has created a substantial group of submissive men who because of their lack of manly qualities have become a concern explicitly due to their lack of back-bone. I believe that they've become submissive because they've internalized messages concerning their inferiority and worthlessness as human beings, specifically male human beings.

If I'm correct, then it is very much our responsibility. If we do cure the poisonining of masculinity, then, and only then, do I believe that you are correct.

 

[Jellybeans]

And you've also failed to consider the latter option in my solution.

No. I have not. I just don't agree with it.

If this frightens you then the desired solution would be to remove legal recognition and obligation from marriage, or, to explicitly dictate all terms of a marriage agreement by way of legal contract.

Nope. I don't believe I have any right to remove legal recogition of anyone's relationship. If people want to get married, they should have that right. If they don't want to get married, then they shouldn't. Not up to me. Not my problem. Not my business. And that goes along what one couple finds acceptable in their bedroom.

If a man chooses to be a "cuckold" willingly and of his own volition, that is 100% his choice. Nobody "makes" anyone anything.

I feel the same way about if a woman were to accept that in her relationship. 100% her choice. Has zero bearing on my life.