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Discussion Starter · #21 · (Edited)
So, despite the DSM-V being citised for 'diagnostic inflation', having
included Skin-Picking Disorder, Binge Eating Disorder, Disruptive Mood Dysregulation Disorder and Hoarding Disorder, it has, yet again, rejected inclusion of Hypersexual Disorder and sex and porn addiction in general.

"A proposal of sex addiction was submitted to the Addictive Disorder workgroup, where it was rejected, on the grounds of having no scientific basis. " - Psychology Today

When are we going to admit to ourselves that these 'disorders' don't exist and are just an excuse for lack of self-control and a way for Big Pharma and 'Sex Addiction' specialists to make money?

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/women-who-stray/201212/sex-addiction-rejected-yet-again-apa
 

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I don't believe its an addiction. But for me, I know MY own behavior and love for it, has destroyed a lot of my relationships.
And that is the bottom line. Whether people believe its an addiction or not, if its a behavior that is destroying a relationship, then it needs to be dealt with.
 
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When are we going to admit to ourselves that these 'disorders' don't exist and are just an excuse for lack of self-control and a way for Big Pharma and 'Sex Addiction' specialists to make money?
Plus the crowd that views porn as an infringement on using sex as a weapon of power.

It is an "addiction" if the desire is targeted to anyone/anything but you. When you can direct it towards yourself it isn't an addiction.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
And that is the bottom line. Whether people believe its an addiction or not, if its a behavior that is destroying a relationship, then it needs to be dealt with.
That is exactly why 'porn addiction' is such a bad idea. Blaming the porn instead of dealing with the real issues will only prolong the unhappiness. Treating the symptom and ignoring the cause is a terrible mistake.
 

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That is exactly why 'porn addiction' is such a bad idea. Blaming the porn instead of dealing with the real issues will only prolong the unhappiness. Treating the symptom and ignoring the cause is a terrible mistake.
:iagree:

I agree and there fore porn shouldn't be blamed, but the person should be for their choices, and lack of self control. Now if this is an occassional thing its one thing, but I'm meaning someone who does this a lot,and if someones poor behavior and lack of self control is an all the time thing, and they just can't control their urge, then it needs to be addressed.

So maybe these porn threads shouldn't be titled things like, "Porn has ruined my life", but more along the lines of, "My spouses behavior has ruined my life."
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
:iagree:

I agree and there fore porn shouldn't be blamed, but the person should be for their choices, and lack of self control. Now if this is an occassional thing its one thing, but I'm meaning someone who does this a lot,and if someones poor behavior and lack of self control is an all the time thing, and they just can't control their urge, then it needs to be addressed.

So maybe these porn threads shouldn't be titled things like, "Porn has ruined my life", but more along the lines of, "My spouses behavior has ruined my life."
Exactly.

By saying 'I have porn addiction' or like Tiger Woods 'I have sex addiction' everybody gets off lightly. Poor Tiger has 'sex addiction' it's an illness, it's not his fault.

The reason this fallacy is so appealing is that it takes blame away from the perpetrator, helps his/her spouse to save face and some therapists get to make a lot of money. Everybody wins! Except the behavioural/relationship issues are still there, untouched.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Johnny, you have some good points on this. I was wondering do you feel the same about say, people with alcohol/drug "addictions?" Do you also believe its a disease?
I think that substance dependancy is well proven. In fact I believe there is a genetic component, at least to alcohol addiction. The negative health effects of excess consumption are clear. This goes some way to justifying the 'disease' label.
 

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Everything starts out as a thought. So I often wonder if people with "diseased" minds if their thought process is what makes them choose, to drink, to take drugs, to watch porn all the time etc etc.

My first wife was a hardcore drug addict,and I can tell you I do believe she had a diseased mind, her thought process on things were really messed up. I'm not just meaning while on drugs either, but her logic and thought process seemed kind off to me before drugs ever entered the picture. I think once on drugs, it just made the thought process worse. I'm assuming it can be the same for porn. And yes, I'm meaning those whose porn watching outweigh that of a healthy loving relationship.
 

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Would you call viewing porn morning, noon and night everyday an addiction? My husband views it when he wakes up for about a half an hour, views it at work on his phone (I can tell by the data he uses) for about a half hour and then in the evenings when I am doing the dishes in another room or walking the dog - that's about another hour. This is usually everyday. He sneaks it and quickly clicks off when I enter the room. He has an e-mail address where he posts his links to Tumblr and other porn sites for easy access. I am sure his bookmarks are stored waaay down deep inside his computer. Would that be an addiction? He is hurting me. I find it disrespectful to me as his wife.
 

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I forgot to add that he gets home from work 3 hours and 45 minutes before I do. So he is also viewing during those hours. Sometimes I walk in the door to find his face flushed from viagra.
 

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Addiction is mostly about maladaptive behavior especially when chimical drugs are not involved. To say someone is not addicted because there is no chemical change in the brain is misleading IMO. A person who cannot physically control an activity eventhough it's hurting those around them is an addict. The only major difference is that the brain is not chemically dependant on the stimuli. The person is addicted to the behavior for whatever reason. It can be any behavior really.
 

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Firstly, any addiction can be detrimental to your health. Chocolate, coconut, tanning, food, etc...

Secondly, the problem with porn is not the porn itself, and how it objectifies women (unlike many feminists would have you think). The problem, is that it creates a false reality, that, most confused men, would honestly prefer to be true. Anyways, with the rise of feminism after WW2, (equal rights yadayada), what happened is romanticism declined as those feminists recreated the image of what a "real man" is. The rise of equal rights to women inadvertently lowered the self-esteem in men.

Porn has always been around, but when it became digital, it boosted the decline of romanticism, by giving men (yes porn was created by and for men), an alternative to sex. Men became lazy. The key thing to remember is that masturbation is not actually bad, despite what many claim. If you read the kama sutra books or any east indian texts about sex, you will see it as something magical, divine. Anyone can masterbate with their imagination. The problem with porn is that it takes away that imagination and replaces it with an illusion. The rise of the porn industry is nothing but a reflection of the selfishness of men. when 3D porn comes out, it will pave the way to concepts, such as what we saw on the original Total Recall. Robot *****s. Yeah.

Thirdly, the "real" scary thing though, is that porn is nothing but a distraction. If you take a look at hollywood and the general media, they create this very same illusion but subliminally (skinny women, what constitutes sexy, etc...)

Apparently there are or soon will soon have over a billion porn sites on the internet. That's a lot of filth.

Lastly, my wife has clearly stated, for the record, in times of need, she would much rather I get off to a screen then cheat with another. Makes sense to me. Masturbating to porn is not cheating, imo. That's silly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Addiction is mostly about maladaptive behavior especially when chimical drugs are not involved. To say someone is not addicted because there is no chemical change in the brain is misleading IMO.
I didn't say that it is not an addiction because there is 'no chemical change in the brain' there are chemical changes in the brain with everything we do, from smiling, laughing, eating and thinking about what you are going to do next weekend. My point was this is not proof of addiction.
A person who cannot physically control an activity eventhough it's hurting those around them is an addict. The only major difference is that the brain is not chemically dependant on the stimuli. The person is addicted to the behavior for whatever reason. It can be any behavior really.
So a person who can't stop himself hitting his wife is a 'Gender Violence Addict'. That is silly. The definition of addiction does not involve whether or not someone is being hurt by the activity.

The APA defines addiction as: "a condition in which the body must have a drug to avoid physical and psychological withdrawal symptoms."

Porn does not fall into this definition.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Would you call viewing porn morning, noon and night everyday an addiction? My husband views it when he wakes up for about a half an hour, views it at work on his phone (I can tell by the data he uses) for about a half hour and then in the evenings when I am doing the dishes in another room or walking the dog - that's about another hour. This is usually everyday. He sneaks it and quickly clicks off when I enter the room. He has an e-mail address where he posts his links to Tumblr and other porn sites for easy access. I am sure his bookmarks are stored waaay down deep inside his computer. Would that be an addiction? He is hurting me. I find it disrespectful to me as his wife.
Your husband has behavioural issues and may have some sort of compulsive disorder, of which his excessive porn use is a symptom. He needs help, but labelling him a 'porn addict' will mean that the help will be focussed on his porn use, not the real issue.
 
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Now to note before the comments below - I've never seen "Your Brain on Porn" and porn isn't an issue in my marriage because if by some miracle my H uses porn (overcoming his very strict religious upbringing), he's amazingly discrete about it (I've never seen any, I've never "caught" him) so - these comments are gleaned from an outsider perspective.

I might suggest it could be an impulse control disorder.

Impulse control disorder or ICD is a class of psychiatric disorders characterized by impulsivity – failure to resist a temptation, urge or impulse that may harm oneself or others.
If you do something repeatedly despite the potential or real harm to yourself and others, its a problem. Are all people who enjoy more porn than their spouse agrees with "addicts", well, no. Not by any means. And yes, in most cases the issue is the couple in question needing to agree on boundaries - and in many cases, no the porn itself isn't the issue - but behavior and feelings that need to be worked out, potentially with professional third-party arbitration (AKA marriage counseling.)

But what about the following scenarios in which case we substitute "porn use" for obsessive gambling scenarios, :

- You are living hand-to-mouth because of how much you are spending on porn
- You are constantly risking getting (or actually have been) fired from work by accessing porn at inappropriate times
- You are tired during the day, and it is affecting your performance at work because you stay up at all hours of the night looking at porn, yet can't stop.
- You pass up on social situations and often arrange your schedule so you can make sure to have enough porn time
- You are distracted during what should be enjoyable activities (outings with the kids, dates with the wife, golf) because you are agitated and can't get back to the porn
- You resent others (including your spouse or family) from infringing on your porn use time, and might become violent, angry, or belligerent as a result
- If there was a prolonged power outage (or a natural disaster) would your primary concern be safety or shelter for yourself and loved ones or - what am I going to do about my porn?

Whether or not that's an addiction, an impulse control problem, or whatever you want to label it - the situations above have gone above and beyond a martial issue with sex. It's beginning to negatively impact your day to day life and its beginning to affect other people (particularly if its making you violent.)
It's a problem that needs to be addressed with intervention, potentially of the professional kind. And while yes, very much so there might be deeper underlying causes to what's fueling the issue, those other problems may or may not in and of themselves have a clinical diagnosis.

So - I'm not going to debate if labeling it as an addition let's people "get off easy" (which the irony of that statement in relation to porn isn't lost on me, btw :rofl:). But - if its a recognized disorder, it might mean some people with a legitimate problem that needs professional intervention might be able to better access that help because insurance will cover it and if its something that primary care doctors are more on the look out for.

And yes - the above is an extreme example. But - the examples that end up with you getting a clinical diagnosis are the extreme examples. Wanting a clean kitchen doesn't label you with OCD. Staying up for three days straight clean or not eating because you are scared to make the kitchen dirty does. Likewise, using porn doesn't make you an addict or give you a "porn impulse issue" - but when you start replacing meaningful interactions with other people, when it starts to make you violent, or it starts to affect your employ-ability - it's an issue.
Regardless of whether or not its chemically affecting your brain.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Now to note before the comments below - I've never seen "Your Brain on Porn" and porn isn't an issue in my marriage because if by some miracle my H uses porn (overcoming his very strict religious upbringing), he's amazingly discrete about it (I've never seen any, I've never "caught" him) so - these comments are gleaned from an outsider perspective.

I might suggest it could be an impulse control disorder.



If you do something repeatedly despite the potential or real harm to yourself and others, its a problem. Are all people who enjoy more porn than their spouse agrees with "addicts", well, no. Not by any means. And yes, in most cases the issue is the couple in question needing to agree on boundaries - and in many cases, no the porn itself isn't the issue - but behavior and feelings that need to be worked out, potentially with professional third-party arbitration (AKA marriage counseling.)

But what about the following scenarios in which case we substitute "porn use" for obsessive gambling scenarios, :

- You are living hand-to-mouth because of how much you are spending on porn
- You are constantly risking getting (or actually have been) fired from work by accessing porn at inappropriate times
- You are tired during the day, and it is affecting your performance at work because you stay up at all hours of the night looking at porn, yet can't stop.
- You pass up on social situations and often arrange your schedule so you can make sure to have enough porn time
- You are distracted during what should be enjoyable activities (outings with the kids, dates with the wife, golf) because you are agitated and can't get back to the porn
- You resent others (including your spouse or family) from infringing on your porn use time, and might become violent, angry, or belligerent as a result
- If there was a prolonged power outage (or a natural disaster) would your primary concern be safety or shelter for yourself and loved ones or - what am I going to do about my porn?

Whether or not that's an addiction, an impulse control problem, or whatever you want to label it - the situations above have gone above and beyond a martial issue with sex. It's beginning to negatively impact your day to day life and its beginning to affect other people (particularly if its making you violent.)
It's a problem that needs to be addressed with intervention, potentially of the professional kind. And while yes, very much so there might be deeper underlying causes to what's fueling the issue, those other problems may or may not in and of themselves have a clinical diagnosis.

So - I'm not going to debate if labeling it as an addition let's people "get off easy" (which the irony of that statement in relation to porn isn't lost on me, btw :rofl:). But - if its a recognized disorder, it might mean some people with a legitimate problem that needs professional intervention might be able to better access that help because insurance will cover it and if its something that primary care doctors are more on the look out for.

And yes - the above is an extreme example. But - the examples that end up with you getting a clinical diagnosis are the extreme examples. Wanting a clean kitchen doesn't label you with OCD. Staying up for three days straight clean or not eating because you are scared to make the kitchen dirty does. Likewise, using porn doesn't make you an addict or give you a "porn impulse issue" - but when you start replacing meaningful interactions with other people, when it starts to make you violent, or it starts to affect your employ-ability - it's an issue.
Regardless of whether or not its chemically affecting your brain.
Your balanced and mature post is out of place on a TAM porn discussion. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Very good post.
 

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Would you call viewing porn morning, noon and night everyday an addiction? My husband views it when he wakes up for about a half an hour, views it at work on his phone (I can tell by the data he uses) for about a half hour and then in the evenings when I am doing the dishes in another room or walking the dog - that's about another hour. This is usually everyday. He sneaks it and quickly clicks off when I enter the room. He has an e-mail address where he posts his links to Tumblr and other porn sites for easy access. I am sure his bookmarks are stored waaay down deep inside his computer. Would that be an addiction? He is hurting me. I find it disrespectful to me as his wife.
Average television use is almost five hours a day. Is that an addiction?

A lot of spouses feel they are neglected by television too, and that it is disrespectful to them.

Porn use can be a problem in marriage. So can television use. Or any number of things. "Addiction" gains currency with porn use but not television use for non-scientific reasons.
 

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Your husband has behavioural issues and may have some sort of compulsive disorder, of which his excessive porn use is a symptom. He needs help, but labelling him a 'porn addict' will mean that the help will be focussed on his porn use, not the real issue.
Actually the latest science on dealing with porn is addressing the behavioral side of it.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that labeling someone a porn addict means that the focus will not be on the real issue.

In general I find that your overall critique of yourbrainonporn.com is excluding the other studies, research, and anecdotal evidences that agree with yourbrainonporn.
 
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