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Here's a just-released study which which found these drugs increased the negative outcomes without conferring any benefits. About 15000 received the drugs and about 80000 were in the control group:

Hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine with or without a macrolide for treatment of COVID-19: a multinational registry analysis

In this large multinational real-world analysis, we did not observe any benefit of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine (when used alone or in combination with a macrolide) on in-hospital outcomes, when initiated early after diagnosis of COVID-19. Each of the drug regimens of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine alone or in combination with a macrolide was associated with an increased hazard for clinically significant occurrence of ventricular arrhythmias and increased risk of in-hospital death with COVID-19.
If these drugs had significant benefits, then it may be worth taking the chance with the negative side effects. But if there's not a demonstrable benefit, it doesn't seem worth taking it.
 

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No much else to say to someone who always knows better than any other source, just 'cause.

If you want to validate the data in the Times on mortality in the NYC area, knock yourself out. It's all public record. Or just sit back and disparage the messenger. But then, we get to appropriately ignore you on the basis of intellectual laziness.
Do you blindly believe everything you read in NYT or any other media outlet? Didn't think so. Do you have the time and energy to verify the data behind every story? Didn't think so. Do you run around in a panic from such a story you haven't verified yourself? I don't. Does it mean I am saying the story is false? No. It simply means I am not going to jump to the conclusion that I should be in a panic that the apocalypse is here.
 

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I understand not "believing" the news outlets in the US, but what about the news from other places in the world??

What about other countries that are or were using refrigerated trucks outside their hospitals? Were they lying too? What about the overwhelmed medical system in other places? What about the army trucks moving cofins in Italy? Is every country lying about the severity of this virus? Italy and Spain were lying about their number of cases and deaths? Those countries have their own flu season and others don't even have a flu season! So what the heck happened in those places then??

I don't understand....
Do you have data showing that those trucks in other countries is grossly unusual? Do you know the specific circumstances of those trucks? That is, did they handle the bodies any differently in those places than prior to Covid? Are they holding bodies at those locations for some specific reason?

What if mortuaries are unable or unwilling to take bodies? What if the government is requiring hospitals or government morgues to hold onto bodies rather than ship them to mortuaries? What if many relatives of the dead have asked to have the bodies held for ceremonies later when restrictions are lifted (so that they can attend the funerals)?

We have zero data other than some pictures. And, no, I don't trust foreign press to be any more honest than the US press.
 

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None of this has bupkus to do with the numbers in the article, which NYT attributes to :
"Source: New York Times analysis of data from the National Center for Health Statistics, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; NYC Department of Health and Mental Hygiene."

The article doesn't mention the metro area once, only NYC. This is a red herring of your making.

They've made it easy for you:
"Source: New York Times analysis of data from the National Center for Health Statistics, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; NYC Department of Health and Mental Hygiene.
Explain how an emprical observation of a 6X increase is "questionable". You seem to be assuming the only possible increase could be due to the official covid death count; the article explicitly states excess deaths exceed the official covid death count. Elsewhere I've seen for a similar period, the # of people dying at home had increased %483 in NYC.

Now this I believe!
Bully for you if you went and verified all that data from the source (CDC). As I said I don't have the time nor the inclination to do so. If you have verified all that data and have come to the conclusion we should all panic due to trucks full of dead bodies, great, go panic!

You do realize the purpose of those pictures and stories is to create the very sensational image of dead bodies.
 

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Bully for you if you went and verified all that data from the source (CDC). As I said I don't have the time nor the inclination to do so. If you have verified all that data and have come to the conclusion we should all panic due to trucks full of dead bodies, great, go panic!
You're the one who seemed upset about the media lying to you and disputed their conclusions, but it appears you're more interested in accusing and running than you are in the truth.
You do realize the purpose of those pictures and stories is to create the very sensational image of dead bodies.
You do realize putting "you do realize" in front of an unsubstantiated claim is still an unsubstantiated claim?
 

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Do you have data showing that those trucks in other countries is grossly unusual? Do you know the specific circumstances of those trucks? That is, did they handle the bodies any differently in those places than prior to Covid? Are they holding bodies at those locations for some specific reason?

What if mortuaries are unable or unwilling to take bodies? What if the government is requiring hospitals or government morgues to hold onto bodies rather than ship them to mortuaries? What if many relatives of the dead have asked to have the bodies held for ceremonies later when restrictions are lifted (so that they can attend the funerals)?

We have zero data other than some pictures. And, no, I don't trust foreign press to be any more honest than the US press.
Anyone can speculate on the reason for the reefer trucks, you haven't provided any evidence though. OTOH, there is public data about skyrocketing deaths due to a widely observed disease.
 

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Well, it appears that the Qlik links don't work, so there is the data, mine it yourself, there are 220 AERs reported for hydroxychloroquine with the outcome of 'died'. If you expand it to include other drug names for those drugs, you get up to almost 1000 with outcome of 'died' connected to the AER.
 

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Do you have data showing that those trucks in other countries is grossly unusual? Do you know the specific circumstances of those trucks? That is, did they handle the bodies any differently in those places than prior to Covid? Are they holding bodies at those locations for some specific reason?

What if mortuaries are unable or unwilling to take bodies? What if the government is requiring hospitals or government morgues to hold onto bodies rather than ship them to mortuaries? What if many relatives of the dead have asked to have the bodies held for ceremonies later when restrictions are lifted (so that they can attend the funerals)?

We have zero data other than some pictures. And, no, I don't trust foreign press to be any more honest than the US press.
I cannot speak for Italy (even though I have good friends living there and saw what was happening) but I know what was happening in Ecuador for sure since almost my whole family lives there.

I moved to the US when I was 23 and I was a volunteer at some public hospitals while going to college. I lived through the measles crisis while living there. That was nothing compared to what they are going through right now. No one has ever seen a refrigerated truck storing dead bodies outside a hospital before. The health and financial crisis down there is real, no need to have the press reporting when entire families we knew were sick and dying. Family members digging through dead bodies in the morgues to find their own. The press wasn't invited to the morgues btw.

You keep saying what if? But the reality is there wasn't a what if? Everyone was scrambling to figure out how to contain the virus and stop overwhelming the medical system, the morgues, the funerals, the cemeteries. They moved bodies in carton boxes because they ran out of cofins. There wasn't a conspiracy going on down there. It was an apocalypse.

Believe what you want to believe but I know what happened. I know what's going on right now and it's not pretty.
 

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Do you have data showing that those trucks in other countries is grossly unusual? Do you know the specific circumstances of those trucks? That is, did they handle the bodies any differently in those places than prior to Covid? Are they holding bodies at those locations for some specific reason?

What if mortuaries are unable or unwilling to take bodies? What if the government is requiring hospitals or government morgues to hold onto bodies rather than ship them to mortuaries? What if many relatives of the dead have asked to have the bodies held for ceremonies later when restrictions are lifted (so that they can attend the funerals)?

We have zero data other than some pictures. And, no, I don't trust foreign press to be any more honest than the US press.
Even if the press is in a conspiracy, there have been many social media posts directly from front-line medical workers saying exactly the same thing. I just watched a Frontline documentary about Cremona, Italy where the doctors where saying the same thing. If it was fake, it would be trivial for Cremona doctors to say it was a big scam.
 

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Moderator Note:

I created a new thread under Politics Politics and Covid19 to discuss the politics involving Covid - 19.

For those of you whose posts I moved....I apologize for any confusion. It's the first time I tried that feature and it took a bit to figure it out.
 

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Taking an objective point of view, it will be interesting to see what comes from the Oxford study on Hydroxychloroquine. I look forward to the peer-reviewed published transcript.

However, I would caution anyone wanting to use Hydroxychloroquine as a prophylactic against SARS-CoV-2 until we have more information. This based on what we know right now.
 

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Well, it appears that the Qlik links don't work, so there is the data, mine it yourself, there are 220 AERs reported for hydroxychloroquine with the outcome of 'died'. If you expand it to include other drug names for those drugs, you get up to almost 1000 with outcome of 'died' connected to the AER.
Is that for the year? Related to covid?
 
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