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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
been reading this site Why Men are not eager to get Married Today

and one of the comments just makes me depressed:(

The following is a true story and a possible
outcome for those young men who father children in a Western Nation. Rather
than “don’t marry,” the author is advocating “don’t marry, and don’t father.” Those
who do are one female whim away from emotional ruin and slavery. I found this on another website.



The man who wrote the article is now in his
mid forties. If you want to offer some solutions or help to him, please do so.



A life not worth
living

It has been
seven years since my wife move 500 miles away with my almost three year old son
one day when I was at work; and my 500 mile trips to try to reconcile our
family eventually proved futile.



Our marriage lasted almost ten years. We waited seven years
to have our first child. Our son was completely planned, welcomed and cherished.
I was a doting and loving father and I spent every day and weekend with my son.

After the divorce, the courts allowed me to see my son three
weekends per month from 10:00 AM to 6:00 PM. That is only 6.66% of the total
time available in the month. I was allowed one phone call per week. The courts
allowed his mother to keep him 500 miles away; I had to travel 500 miles to see
him. I was ordered to pay his mother $1500 per month. No consideration was
taken for my travel expenses.

Most importantly, no consideration was given for
my son’s rights to have his father in his life the same amount of time as
before. Not three weekends per month only in the daytime, but every day and
night and weekend. I was a very affectionate, loving and responsible father and
absolutely doted over my son. I was stripped of my fathership and made a
visitor in his life. He was stripped of his father.

Within two months my son behaved like a stranger to me.
Within four months he was actively hostile towards me. After traveling 500
miles to see him, his mother would not show up with him. His mother was
alienating him from me.

Within seven months I lost my job. After being a victim of a
terrible wife and a corrupt court system, I realized the situation was
hopeless; I walked away.

Even though she destroyed most of the relationship between
my son and I, I am the one being blamed for abandonment.

I thought I could begin a new life; but seven years later
the pain remains. My pain over missing my son; the pain over how my son must feel;
the pain over the disadvantages that my son has. Pain over a career that has
been trashed. Pain over huge child support debts that can never be repaid. Pain
over a life where I will never be able to have any sort of financial security
or retirement. Pain over the fact that I will never know my grandchildren. Pain
over excruciating loneliness.

The worst times are weekends and holidays. Weekends and
holidays were mine and my son’s best times together. When I see fathers with
sons I feel an overwhelming sadness: a sadness of what has been lost; what is
not; and what could have been.

Also I am permanently changed. No amount of therapy,
psychotropic drugs, or a new woman and child can remove the hollowness inside
me. I notice the effect when I am around people. I used to be happy and
fulfilled; now I am empty and depressed, and people notice it and they don’t
want to be around me. It is impossible for me to smile and I get no pleasure
from anything; not even eating. I have no present and no future.

Am I a loser?

I was an example of someone who raised themselves from
nothing to something though hard work. I put myself through college; earned a
scholarship, and worked many crappy jobs before I finally landed a good one.
Through thrift, I managed to save a tidy nest egg. I never had any problems
with the law. But because my wife became unhappily married, I have been
criminalized, even though I tried to keep the marriage together.

Now I don’t have a car, I don’t have a drivers license, I
don’t have a girl friend, and I live in a small and ****ty room. I earn a fifth
of what I earned before. I have a very difficult time holding a job because of
depression.

I am a Christian; so I am afraid of committing suicide.
Nevertheless, I often research suicide to see if there is some justification
for it; some way to do it, without going to hell. I want out of my life; I
would not want to wish my life on my worst enemy. It is a life that is not
worth living.

I pray every day for some guidance and purpose of what I am
supposed to do; I don’t get any answers.

Where did I go wrong? Was it the wrong choice of a woman?

My wife was very religious and a virgin when we
met. She never smoked a cigarette or drank alcohol in her life. She was the
most family-oriented person I had ever met. I would never have thought she
would have chosen divorce. And if she chose divorce, I would have thought she
would have wanted a father in her son’s life. But she changed. Why did she
change? I don’t know but I think because of cultural influences.

Why do I write this? For pity?

No. I write this to give young men an idea of what they are
facing when they father children in the USA or any other country that imitates
the American court system. When the divorce happens, and it is more likely to
happen then not, you will be destroyed emotionally and financially. Your
children will suffer. The more responsible, the more loving, the more
family-oriented you are, the more you will be destroyed.

Marriage and family is sacred and the greatest gift a man
can have. Unfortunately, in the USA, marriage and family have been perverted
beyond repair.

For young men, the worst thing you could do is to have
children in the USA. For parents of boys, the worst thing you could do is to
pressure your sons into having children in the USA. Don’t think it cannot
happen to you or your sons.

Is there a solution? Yes.

Emigration. Make your
money in the states and emigrate out when you are financially able. Then marry
and have children in a family-friendly nation and a nation with fairer divorce
laws. This is a solution that won’t completely remove the risk of divorce; but
will reduce it.

As a man in the USA you have nothing to look forward to.
Only the ignorant or the masochistic would think of fathering children there.
In the USA fathers are like tightrope walkers without netting. Don’t do it.

You have been warned by someone wandering in hell who lives
a life not worth living.

Information and
statistics:

Half of all American
marriages end in divorce.



Divorce is
initiated by the woman in 75% of all cases.



Presumption
of guilt is on the man. If the woman makes any type of emotional or physical abuse
claim, the man will be removed from his home and children.



Nine out of ten times the children are given to the woman,
no matter how good the man is.

If you fall behind in child support $2500, your passport is
denied.

If you fall behind in child support $2500, you drivers
license is revoked.

If you are behind on child support payments, you can go to
jail.

If you have a history of falling behind on payments, you can
be placed in prison.

Because you are in jail does not mean child support payments
stop; on the contrary, child support payments continue and arrears continue to
build.

In many states, interest is added to arrears at the rate of
10 percent per year.

There is no statute of limitations for child support payments.

If you lose your job and get a lesser paying job, the child
support agencies will do their best to try to keep the payments the same.

Non-custodial parents (men) are around three times as likely
to commit suicide then the rest of the male population, and in the USA the general
male population is around five times more likely to commit suicide then females.

Men are not entitled to a lawyer in a failure to pay child
support court hearing.

On any given day, 50,000 men are in jail or prison for child
support arrears.

Employers frown on wage garnishment; it is more work for
them and they are less likely to hire a divorced man and more likely to exploit
one because they know he is desperate.

As your children are stripped away from you and the
relationship severed, you will be accused of abandoning your children.

States get
matching funds from the federal government for every support order they issue;
therefore there is a built-in economic incentive against family reconciliation
and against shared custody and an economic incentive for divorce and sole
physical custody.



If you have arrears, a child support lien will be placed on
your credit report which comes up on background checks rendering you much less
employable.

Any type of depression or despondency is used against the
man to further remove him from his children, causing yet more depression and despondency.

Ever wonder why there are so many homeless men? Do your own
street interviews. Ask random homeless men if they ever went through a divorce
or the child support system.

A man with children in the USA is like a tightrope walker
without netting: the risk-reward profile is life or death.

Man
sentenced to 20 years in prison for failure to pay child support.

link:GlennSacks.com » Blog Archive

this is like a nightmare no wonder people has becoming resentful of marriage since it can use it for screwing each other spouse (men were screwed mostly) mentally, physically and financially. No one should deserve a divorce like this (even though i advocate divorce if its abusive, out of love, etc)

p.s i m not sure am i posting this in the right section if so please move it to the right place
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
also i heard there is a economic reason why men tends to lose during divorce proceedings, due to that fact that most single mums will need welfare from the government. In-order for the government to pay less welfare the court system will demand the husband to pay a huge payment as child support so that the government will not bear the responsibility of paying welfare. (sounds a good use of fiscal policy but at the cost of suffering)

oops i can edit my first post!? ah nuts
 

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That is just too sad. And the bitterness has manifested into depression. And the depression into despair. There can only be one solution in such a situation: that is to pray, seek forgiveness and move on. As painful as it is, there is no discourse for the down and out. The fear of such things happening will lead the men to teach the boys to avoid getting married. And the stats are much the same (for divorce rates) the world over.
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Though the story sounds sad and I feel bad for the guy, I believe it is probably a bit sensationalized and exaggerated, and you hear nothing of the mother's plight...just his side. Maybe he was a good father but beat the living crap out of her. Who knows? Maybe he threatened her life? Maybe she was escaping? I admit the laws are unfair for men in divorce settlements. Hopefully with equality and changing of times the system will make it more fair for men.
 

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"Those (men) who do (marry) are one female whim away from emotional ruin and (financial) slavery."

This.

While there are definitely better articles out there which articulate men's issues in a more balanced way, most people do not realize how unfair family law has become to men. The end result is that while women find security in marriage, men find great insecurity.

Marriage laws no longer protect men, period. No Fault divorce, the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA), and Equitable Distribution Statutes are laws that harm men, dis-incentivize marriage for men, and therefore harm women too.

Under these laws, a western women has the legal right to cheat on her husband and leave him (No Fault Divorce), accuse him of violence and have him thrown in jail without evidence (VAWA), take his children, and take half of everything he ever worked for even if she never worked to earn those assets (equitable distribution statutes). It's true when the OP claims that in marriage, men are one female whim away from emotional ruin and financial slavery.

You can thank feminist lobbying for the passage of those laws which make divorce easy, hurt good men and fathers, dis-incentivize marriage, and hastened the break down of our families.

Mens rights are a legitimate issue, and women would benefit from understanding men's perspectives on the risks of marriage especially given the laws above. If we as a society wish to see the strengthening of our marriages and families then the legitimate issues of men and fathers needs to be addressed as seriously as women's issues.
 

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Op although I can understand a lot of what you are saying in 1994 I went thru a female filled divorce
And custody battle in the end after spending close to 50k I was awarded my 3 year old daughter
And I raised her she is now 21 going to school and has adjusted wonderfully I feel that yr legal
Counsel wasn't that good as men are awarded custody every day although it wasn't fun fighting against myself as she used the court awarded 1500.00 per month to pay for her atty so I felt that I was fighting myself and financing
Both sides I am sorry for your experience however one can either succumb to circumstances or fight the good fight
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Though the story sounds sad and I feel bad for the guy, I believe it is probably a bit sensationalized and exaggerated, and you hear nothing of the mother's plight...just his side. Maybe he was a good father but beat the living crap out of her. Who knows? Maybe he threatened her life? Maybe she was escaping? I admit the laws are unfair for men in divorce settlements. Hopefully with equality and changing of times the system will make it more fair for men.
Sensationalized, probably. True, more than likely. Granted this is only half of the story, I am sure the mother has another story and the truth will be somewhere in-between. Even with this response, it can be seen that the presumption of guilt is on the men.

As a male in my state, one call from a wife/girlfriend to the police and you will have officers at your door to escort you to jail. No evidence, no questions, no jury, just a free trip to the pokey for two days. Then you have to fight the DV charge in court. If the DV charge gets on your record, you are screwed. It will show up on every background check and you will be in-eligible for any kind of security clearance. What a fair system, right?

The portions about the court system and the federal funding are very true. There is no jury in Family Court, only a judge, many are of whom mother biased. The system is a hold over from the days where many women were homemakers and did not make or have a lot of money. Now days, it is not uncommen for women to make just as much as men, work just as much, and be just as abusive as men. It does not help that states get federal funds matching for every case of CS they successfully issue. What incentive is it for states to change the system when they get money from the federal gov't?

The presumption should be 50/50 custody, equitable distribution of assets, time limit and cap on alimony, and CS based on income. This should go both ways, men & women held to the same standard. We both equally helped to make a child and should both be responsible for the raising of said child.

The sad story like this of men being stripped of thier children is forgetten because they must be "deadbeats". The question is, how did they get into this position, not why are they behind on their CS? The divorce system is a cruel place.

I would have to agree with his agrument, the US and western countries with similar legal systems are not the place to have children as a man. You can be a good person, provider, parent, and partner, yet if the marriage falls apart, you can lose everything.
 

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Unfortunately, he gave up. I don't know what his resources were/are, and he is one of the reasons I wanted to get into law (didn't - thought about going back to school) was to work for groups like the Family Law Center.

I am VERY lucky to have a family who had the means when I didn't and I refused to give up and I fought, and fought HARD.

My ex was alienating my daughter - he was to have a week of vacation with her but refused to bring her back and it took over a month. In that short amount of time she hated me, did not ever want to see me again and certainly didn't want to come live with me.

I researched everything I could find on alienation and reached out for help everywhere I could find it. AND I was fortunate to have a judge who knew what it was, even though in the US it isn't always recognized by the courts because a diagnosis code for Parental Alienation Syndrome had not been created.

After a month she came back to me by the force of the courts once it was determined I was 'safe' and a court hearing scheduled for nearly a year later. During that year I followed the advice of books and articles to reach into the girl I knew and reconnect with her. I reached out to United Family Services who directed me to Council for Children's Rights. I petitioned the courts for a Guardian ad Litem and a Psychological Evaluation.

Since I divorced I have spent well over $65,000 fighting for my daughter - just to KEEP her, not to take her away from her Dad. That last round took $10K of my own savings and when that was exhausted I borrowed the rest from my parents as each bill came in I humbly asked for more. Once the psychologist's report was released 2 weeks prior to court, he settled and agreed to pay $20,000 of my legal expenses.

So for 6 years (2 have passed) he includes an extra $278 into my child support then I add my own share and send a check to my parents every month.

My heart breaks knowing there are people like him (yes, it's one side but it's a side I'm VERY familiar with and way too common if you are part of the PAS organization) that are forced to give up their relationships with their children out of lack of funds and know-how. When children are young they are VERY malleable and it doesn't take long to turn a child against a parent.

June 10, 2009 - vacation with Dad - YAY ... and the day I was served with papers for emergency temporary custody.

July 7, 2009 - my day in court and the first time I saw my daughter in a month. She was terrified of coming home with me.

For two months I tried to record phone calls and got a few. He talked about me and called me a b*tch to my daughter and reminded her of 'the plan'.

This whole year was spent in and out of court and attorney's offices and the allegations against me in the custody suit were SO off the wall crazy I asked for the psychological evaluation. I got the Council for Children's Rights involved and had a Guardian ad Litem appointed for my daughter (her own attorney) which included her own custody advocate who did a full investigation for parental fitness. They visited school, all parties' homes (grandparents, parents) talked with my counselor, her teachers, her friends' parents to get a complete picture of her life and what her life would be like with each parent so they could come to a recommendation for the GAL and the courts.

April 2010 - The final report from the psychologist came 2 weeks before our court date. His attorney called mine to hammer out a settlement. We cancelled court and worked out an agreement with the help of the GAL who made it clear he was there for our daughter and to do what was in HER best interest. Which turned out to be half of the visitation she was getting with her Dad before and limits on phone and school contact.

In that year my daughter did not reply to ILYs, she did not hug back, she was a quiet depressed child. Over the next 12 months she allowed affection and returned it but did not initiate. She replied to ILY with "you, too". The third year I would get initiated snuggles and sometimes ILY in reply. This year I get hugs, leaps, smiles, giggles, voluntary ILYs... my girl is back 100%.

3 years of tears, pain, fighting against her Dad, fighting FOR her. Fighting for everyone to see the truth of what was going on. I refused to give up - I was afraid if I did I would never see her again; that she would become a stranger. I fought hard for my daughter and our relationship not just now, but forever.

Not everyone has the resources to do this.
 

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I wanted to pitch in for this post as usually I do not visit this section but this post caught my eye. All I can tell the person that wrote the letter is that he has suffered a terrible accident which does not mean that he does not drive again. Yes, he went thru a terrible marriage and his child is not with him....but that is LIFE....u cannot change that fact...I have commuted 10k miles for my kids over the last few years to meet them and spend time with them. Is it painful- YES, gut wrenching YES but so is life. We cannot blame the system, people or circumstances. Why do you think a guy like Donald Trump has all his kids near him from his previous marriages--because he is successful....you have to get out of this rut and rise....believe me if you are in a place to welcome ur son he will come....it is a chain reaction! The greatness of mankind does not lie in having succeeded but in falling and getting up an trying again...move on with life..build yourself..meet other people...maybe marry again and have more kids...stop blaming the system or being a victim...(from someone who is in a worse situation than yours)
 

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"Those (men) who do (marry) are one female whim away from emotional ruin and (financial) slavery."

This.

While there are definitely better articles out there which articulate men's issues in a more balanced way, most people do not realize how unfair family law has become to men. The end result is that while women find security in marriage, men find great insecurity.

Marriage laws no longer protect men, period. No Fault divorce, the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA), and Equitable Distribution Statutes are laws that harm men, dis-incentivize marriage for men, and therefore harm women too.

Under these laws, a western women has the legal right to cheat on her husband and leave him (No Fault Divorce), accuse him of violence and have him thrown in jail without evidence (VAWA), take his children, and take half of everything he ever worked for even if she never worked to earn those assets (equitable distribution statutes). It's true when the OP claims that in marriage, men are one female whim away from emotional ruin and financial slavery.

You can thank feminist lobbying for the passage of those laws which make divorce easy, hurt good men and fathers, dis-incentivize marriage, and hastened the break down of our families.

Mens rights are a legitimate issue, and women would benefit from understanding men's perspectives on the risks of marriage especially given the laws above. If we as a society wish to see the strengthening of our marriages and families then the legitimate issues of men and fathers needs to be addressed as seriously as women's issues.
Maybe in your country but in Australia parents have equal child access rights. Asset division is usually fair and child support based on the whole picture.

The absolute minority of cases end up before a Judge as many here make their own arrangements.

And a woman does not take half he husbands assets. It is deemed that both worked equally to build their assets as we value mothers and the unpaid job they do.
If either party brought in a lot of assets that is taken into consideration as is future needs of the children.

We do not have alimony as you seem to.

Maybe a good overhaul of your policies and laws there would go a long way to reducing the angst, this should not be an issue of men v's women. The only ones that lose are the kids.
 

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been reading this site Why Men are not eager to get Married Today
This is like a nightmare no wonder people has becoming resentful of marriage since it can use it for screwing each other spouse (men were screwed mostly) mentally, physically and financially. No one should deserve a divorce like this (even though i advocate divorce if its abusive, out of love, etc)

p.s i m not sure am i posting this in the right section if so please move it to the right place
Divorce in my state is so biased against men it is a joke. You are considered no more or less than a common criminal, it is assumed that you will default on your child support payments. With custody for the mother regardless of what a loser she might be.

Only thing I can advise is to scrape every dime you have together to get a good lawyer because if you have a vindictive wife you are going to lose everything, your money, access to your children, your home, and your ability to start any sort of new life. Not to mention your mental health. The system will guarantee that.

I had never thought about this being a reason when men might not want to marry, but you are absolutely correct. Why in the world would anyone take a risk like this? You better know your spouse pretty darn well - especially the way she deals with a disagreement. Reinforces my thinking, a pre-nup is a requirement these days before any marriage.
 

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You have a had a terrible experience, but guess what - you can also turn it into the biggest blessing of your life? "From every great tragedy can come greatness" is absolutely true.
It comes down to a DECISION - that you will learn from it and not let it stop you from living a wonderful life. You need to start asking yourself different questions - what was great about this experience? What did I learn that can make me a better person? What about it could I share with others? How could I help other people to avoid the pain I went through? What lessons could I teach and make a positive impact in the world with?
You have a wonderful opportunity to help many people avoid what you went through - what a gift you were given to experience what you did so that you could share and help transform the world. The question is, will you rise above your own self pity and reach out for the gift you have been given?
 
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