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Bear, there is a thread here about sleuthing--by Weightlifter, "Standard Evidence Post." https://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html

(I hope that will get you there. I'm tech impaired.)

If you've had enough, and from what you wrote, you should have had enough, just see a lawyer, separate your finances, and file for divorce. It won't get better. It will get worse.

If you need validation and more evidence, then the path ahead for you has been trod not by a single spy, but by a battalion of men all of whom thought they might be able to "nice" the old lady back. Never works. Absolutely, never works.

Good luck.

Oh, DNA the kids.
 

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Definitely research more and as others have already stated the red flags are in place and lines have been drawn. Get your finances in order, lawyer up, (just to get info in case). I wouldn’t have sex with her either.

If it were me, the trip would be cancelled and I would let her know why...I DONT TRUST YOU!! Now remember that’s me, not you.

Be careful, as not that long ago she wanted another child? As well, I would also try to find out how many of the ten trips a year this possible OM was on with her.

And yes, having been a hunter and trapper, I believe that unless you man up, you should change your name, a bear doesn’t fool around!

Bottom line, it’s your decision on whether or not you want to R or D. Don’t let her put any blame on you for her foibles and don’t make excuses for her either.

Again if it were me, I would tell her, if you want to separate, here’s your freedom as you hand her the Divorce papers. I don’t believe in separation bull**** just so a partner has an excuse to test run another person and use that as an excuse to feel good about it. Saying, “ well we were separated while I had sex with them”.

Again Bman, this is only my opinion.
 

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A trip abroad is fun, especially if one does this rarely.

A trip abroad taking your children can be great fun, especially if they are older.

This trip will be on your dime. Likely the last time on your dime.

She wants to get the last drop out of you, your last tear, your last drop of blood, your last gasp of breath.
No, no, she does not want this! It looks good in print, though!



She is not 'that' terrible of a person. She is just your average cheater.

While abroad, you will bring your children and some broad that used to be your wife.




Hold your head high, it will soon be yours to enjoy again.





KB-
 

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When a woman cheats, and especially when her husband is weak like you are, there is only ONE way to end the cheating and save the marriage. That will require you to be STRONG and you have a lot to learn in that department. "No, we will not live in the same house while you are cheating on me. No, I will not move out. Therefore, you either end your relationship with this man or you move out. It's your choice. I'll go see the lawyer to get the divorce papers drawn up."

Biologically, psychologically, women DESIRE strong men. They despise weak ones. You have been weak all your marriage so she has no more use for you. But if you have any hope of not ending up giving her EVERYTHING in the divorce (kids, home, savings), you need to step up and start learning what a strong man looks like. Start by reading No More Mr Nice Guy. Today. You can download it. Read that and come back and we'll talk.
 

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Bear in mind Bear, she likely is bare in the mind of another man.
When he thinks of her, she is naked.

Bear in mind, the other man, the likely affair partner, wants her barely clothed, he wants her bare flesh, only.

He will not likely want to raise another man's children.

He will not want to see her on a given morning, no makeup, her hair matted, where her needs and cares suddenly matter.

You love 'her'.

He loves the women he occasionally travels with.
The happy, temporarily free, sappy her.

The other man loves her image.
You love the image that was your wife.

That women has re-painted herself.
From a traveling married lady that enjoys going abroad into a broad that travels with a light heart and no conscience in her purse, nor from her pursed freely shared lips.


God, I hope I am wrong.



[THRD]
 

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Don't let us scare you away.

Especially, me.
 

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The other man is probably someone she works with and connected with on her work trip. You should definitely put a voice-activated recorder in her car, and/or a keylogger on her computer. Find out everything about the other man. If he's married, inform his wife with no warning to your own wife, and provide concrete evidence.

There's a possibility that your second child is not yours. Sometimes a cheating wife pretends to have a renewed interest in sex with her husband when she knows she's pregnant. The idea is to fool the husband into bankrolling her lover's child. You can order a DNA paternity testing kit. Depending on how things are between you and your wife, you might want to make sure she sees you performing the test. Sometimes a cheating spouse has to hit rock-bottom by seeing just how low they've stooped. This might wake her up.
 

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Another question. We do have a trip abroad scheduled with the kids. She surprisingly still wants to go together. I really don't understand why?
Keep up appearances, sir!

First, the password protected phone...big no in a marriage. Marriage is an open book with not secrets. Includes of course passwords to devices.

Second, your W wanting to get pregnant after returning from a trip. My guess, your W had been involved with OM(coworker from the looks of it). Quite possible looking to cover a possible pregnancy scare stemming from a PA with COW.

Third, going to the gym, getting nice clothing and attentive to ones look before heading off to work are red flags!!

Fourth, your W is active in an affair.
 

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On wanting a new baby in July?

Couple of possibles:

She wanted to get pregnant as a means to control her urges to cheat.
Being pregnant would likely keep the other man away.
She knows her boundaries are weak.

How does she know?
She has succumbed to her desires, likely more than a few times.

Having a baby will take her mind off her vagina, it will keep her mind on the new baby.
Babies do that, they are masters at taking everyone's minds and giving it to themselves.


What happened during the last trip?

She was had, she crossed the bridge to infidelity.
Likely again.
Dunno?

I suspect it felt good.

She is losing weight, hoping to score with higher end, tighter, nicer rear end, owning men.

Bringing you along to the gym is simple.
It is always easier to work out with a partner.

Plus, she will feel less guilty with you along.
It is all about the guilt.

Lessening it.

Part of the weight that she will lose is the man in the mirror.
That is you.
 

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Keep up appearances, sir!

First, the password protected phone...big no in a marriage. Marriage is an open book with not secrets. Includes of course passwords to devices.

Second, your W wanting to get pregnant after returning from a trip. My guess, your W had been involved with OM(coworker from the looks of it). Quite possible looking to cover a possible pregnancy scare stemming from a PA with COW.

Third, going to the gym, getting nice clothing and attentive to ones look before heading off to work are red flags!!

Fourth, your W is active in an affair.
On the bolded part. I agree.

If she is pregnant, will she abort?
Watch how she spends the household money.

At what, say three months, will it show??

I suspect if she does [abort] you should see some sickness, missed work or pain, soon.
Dunno.
 

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Sorry you are going through this, bear-man.

My responses to you will be inside your quote, but in blue.

Hi guys!
- In July, she totally changed and suddenly wanted to have another child. She was attentive, nice and treated me great - and I did the same.

At the end of July, she goes on a work trip (she travels 10 times year). She came back as a totally different person. Won't let me hug, tough her or anything. 2 weeks later, she asks for a separation.

Very drastic change here, after a business trip. Don't ignore the facts: she was loving you and wanting a child (which means she wants to have intercourse) and then after a business trip away from home she is 100% the opposite.

She had an affair on the trip, whether an emotional affair or a physical affair. If she were sorry about it, she would be having lots of sex with you in order to assuage her own conscience.

She asked that we both stay at home with kids to no hurt them. She asked me to finish the basement so she can have a bedroom there. We even went to our old counselor because she wanted to know how to break down the separation to the kids and stuff. I was like ok with all of it because deep inside, I was like I am going to give her her space and try my hardest to win her back.

She is not sure if her affair is going to turn into a concrete relationship yet, so she is keeping the door to your marriage slightly open by not divorcing you, and only having an in house separation. When she knows where she stands with her affair partner, she will pull away farther and ask for a divorce, or if he dumps her she will get depressed and reluctantly move back upstairs with you.

You are what is called "Plan B." If Plan A (her affair partner) doesn't work out, she still has you, Plan B, to fall back on.

- The last 2 weeks. we slept separately. she started going to the gym and keeps saying that she wants to lose weight. She even asks me to go with her and started this meal subscription service for both of us.

She is sleeping separately because she feels like she would be cheating on her affair partner if she sleeps with you.

When my husband was in his affair, he slept on the couch the first night he got home(he was home on days off from work) and wouldn't kiss me or touch me. I had no idea what was going on. Later the first day he admitted what was going on and then it all made sense.

Right now, you disgust her, and her affair partner turns her on. She is working out because she wants to look good for her affair partner, and hopefully get that relationship on more solid ground.

- She changed the password on her phone and I pretty much is not allowed to see it. This past Friday, I glanced and saw a Facebook message from this guy. I did some research and saw that they spoke a few times since May. I also found out that this guy also was on this trip with her. I confronted her. She said it was guy from work and swore on our "kids life" that she never cheated on me.

BINGO! You saw the smoking gun on her FB page. Don't make the mistake of believing a word she says about not cheating during, before or after the business trip.

In a marriage, all passwords should be known by both people. Changing a password on a phone so the spouse can't see what one is doing is a classic move of a cheater. If you still aren't convince she is in an affair, don't let on that you think she is and do some more investigating.

Personally, I think you have enough evidence that she is checked out of the marriage at least, and in an affair at most. Depending on how strong you are, just serve her with D papers with the evidence you have. You don't even need a reason to divorce in most states. Her behaviors have told you loud and clear that she no longer wants to be a wife, or be in a loving relationship with you.

Are you planning to live sexless and be a househusband to her while she is having sex with someone else? Do you want to mess with your children's heads by having her live in the basement while she has a boyfriend on the side? Draw a line in the sand, and tell her that you are not going to "play" pseudo marriage with her. She must be all in or all out.

Speak to a lawyer, and learn your rights. Definitely do not move out of the house. Take 1/2 of your joint monies and put it in a separate account that only you can access. Only put enough to manage the household in the joint account. When she decides to go full on with the affair and divorce you, she will take as much of your $ as she can, as well as run up joint credit cards. Take your name off joint credit cards. All bills on joint credit cards will be 1/2 yours in a divorce situation. If you think you need a credit card, get one in only your name.

- Saturday: We had issues with our checking account while away on a soccer tournament with my son. We gave a check to a contractor and asked him to no cash it unit some money was transferred. Guess what? he didn't listen. So our account was in a negative. She called and started yelling at me and that I couldn't offer any solutions. After a lot of back an forth an stress, I sent her money to use. She later apologized by text. Then I found out that at around midnight, she called this same guy and talked for 85 minutes.
- I was so mad yesterday that I didn't want to talk. She kept asking what's wrong and why am I giving her the cold shoulder.

She has absolutely no respect for you. Her other man has taken your place. She would not call him late at night and talk for 85 minutes unless they already had something going on. I know this because my husband and his former OW carried on by phone as well. He was out of town for work, and one night, as an excuse to get off the phone with me the said, "It's late, and I'd better get some sleep, because they might call me to work very early." Phone records show that he got a voice mail from her as he was talking with me. He hung up from me immediately after getting the voicemail, and then he called her back and they talked until 3:30 in the morning!! He hardly slept during his affair, he lived on adrenaline.

Don't tell her what you know, or how you get any of your evidence, because cheaters who are not ready to divorce only get sneakier, and then you won't have access, and you will have to look harder for evidence.

Just hand her divorce papers and tell her that you know she is cheating and that you will not be in a marriage with a cheater.

If she decides to stop cheating and wants to come back to the marriage, don't have sex with her until she has had a VD test for sexually transmitted diseases. This is serious, not a game.

I have no idea how to proceed or what to do. Am i over-blowing this whole thing?

Thank you for your support
No, you are not over-blowing anything.

Are you church goers? If you are, having a meeting (with your wife present) with a respected/loved elder might help her come out of her fog. She will lie her socks off since her affair is not cemented, because if it were she'd have already asked you for a divorce to marry him. But at least it will be one more mirror shone on her sin to show her that what she is doing is very very wrong.
 

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I checked. The average cost for an abortion at a small clinic is around ~500 dollars.
If your insurance will cover it, or if they determine you can afford it, expect to pay around ~1000 dollars.

If a woman goes to a hospital they cost twice as much. Or, much more.
Very, very few hospitals will perform them. And if they do it will be for complex reasons, not for on-demand reasons.

Look for a charge like this on her checking account or credit/debit card to some health care provider.
 

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Do you think that there is a possibility that when she told you she wanted a child, she might have already been in her affair, and thought she was pregnant with the OM's child, and they weren't committed enough for her to divorce you and marry him so she wanted you to think it was yours?

Then she found out she was not pregnant, so she didn't need you any more.
 

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Hi guys!

Here are the details:

- Married for 13 years, 2 kids and just bought a house together. We did have issues in the past but always got over them.
- Wife threatened to separate a couple of times. She pretty much says that there is "no deep connection" whatever that means. She blames me for a lot stuff and I always oblige and promise change.
- I grew up in a rocky household. My mom and dad fought/argued every weekend. So in results, I shut down and don't like confrontation with the wife especially in front of the kids.
- In July, she totally changed and suddenly wanted to have another child. She was attentive, nice and treated me great - and I did the same. At the end of July, she goes on a work trip (she travels 10 times year). She came back as a totally different person. Won't let me hug, tough her or anything. 2 weeks later, she asks for a separation. She asked that we both stay at home with kids to no hurt them. She asked me to finish the basement so she can have a bedroom there. We even went to our old counselor because she wanted to know how to break down the separation to the kids and stuff. I was like ok with all of it because deep inside, I was like I am going to give her her space and try my hardest to win her back.
- The last 2 weeks. we slept separately. she started going to the gym and keeps saying that she wants to lose weight. She even asks me to go with her and started this meal subscription service for both of us.
- She changed the password on her phone and I pretty much is not allowed to see it. This past Friday, I glanced and saw a Facebook message from this guy. I did some research and saw that they spoke a few times since May. I also found out that this guy also was on this trip with her. I confronted her. She said it was guy from work and swore on our "kids life" that she never cheated on me.
- Saturday: We had issues with our checking account while away on a soccer tournament with my son. We gave a check to a contractor and asked him to no cash it unit some money was transferred. Guess what? he didn't listen. So our account was in a negative. She called and started yelling at me and that I couldn't offer any solutions. After a lot of back an forth an stress, I sent her money to use. She later apologized by text. Then I found out that at around midnight, she called this same guy and talked for 85 minutes.
- I was so mad yesterday that I didn't want to talk. She kept asking what's wrong and why am I giving her the cold shoulder.


I have no idea how to proceed or what to do. Am i over-blowing this whole thing?

Thank you for your support
I'd recommend researching the legality of putting a VAR (voice activated recorder) under the seat of your wife's car. If it's legal in your state, then buy and install one. Wait a week or two, and then see what she's been up to. If she is having an affair, then there will likely be clear evidence of it in her phone calls. Putting a GPS tracer in her car would also be a good idea, so you can compare her account of her day to her actual movements. Her push to lose weight, coupled with her desire to separate, is a sign that she's trying to increase her attractiveness, and marketability. Otherwise said, she's preparing herself for a divorce, and dating other men.

If you want to save your marriage, I'd recommend you purchase and read "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters", both by Dr. Harley, immediately. That way you can start meeting your wife's emotional needs in any way possible, and hopefully revive her feelings for you.
 

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Do you think that there is a possibility that when she told you she wanted a child, she might have already been in her affair, and thought she was pregnant with the OM's child, and they weren't committed enough for her to divorce you and marry him so she wanted you to think it was yours?

Then she found out she was not pregnant, so she didn't need you any more.
This is exactly what happened. She had to hurry up and have sex with you so you couldn't tell that it had been conceived by a different person.
 

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Do you think that there is a possibility that when she told you she wanted a child, she might have already been in her affair, and thought she was pregnant with the OM's child, and they weren't committed enough for her to divorce you and marry him so she wanted you to think it was yours?

Then she found out she was not pregnant, so she didn't need you any more.
"Zactly" what I thought when I read that.
 

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This is exactly what happened. She had to hurry up and have sex with you so you couldn't tell that it had been conceived by a different person.
Yes, that's what I thought, too.
 

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Check your phone bill online. It does sound suspicious of her pregnancy. It's happened here more than once.

Voice activated recorder in her car. Chances are her other man is married.

Mouth shut eyes and ears open.

Better man up quick. They are ahead of you now.

Sorry you are here and for what you are about to go through.
 

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She's definitely cheating. The baby talk was only in case she gets pregnant by him.

Imagine that - she planned to pin a pregnancy with her OM on you!

Stop being so nice - get mad!!!

Cancel the contractor and get you money back asap! Put it in an acct in your name only!

Move money into your name only!

Any assets you can think of that she may swipe - guard them by putting them in your name only. Any possessions you love? Rent a storage space and put themthere.

Close all joint credit cards. Print out the current balances that show the date and amount so she can't spend and expect you to pay half!

Start protecting yourself now! If you do t - she will take everything she can!


See an attorney and have papers drawn up - you need to be ready - three steps ahead of her instead of ten behind.

Don't trust a word she says - she's ruined your life and your kids lives by lying and being selfish.

Find out who the OM is - if he's married inform his wife without letting your wife know ahead of time.

Blow her world up! If she's scared - she may change.

If she's not scared - she will continue he to treat you WAY worse than her recent outburst!

I mention again - stop being so nice!
 
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