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you do what it takes to stop them. You have to be willing to end a marriage to save it. Never beg a WS...

For Part 2, I decided to go a different route and write about some main points of certain A’s and my mind set during them. Adding in some things a BS should look for and what I think has to be done to end them. I think I will add a Part 3. To detail where I am now and how I got there. I was to just add this to my initial thread titled “Can a Serial Cheater/ Narcissist Change his Stripes” but since the theme is different I thought it deserved its own thread.

Part 2.

I can count on one hand how many ONS I have had since marriage, I never go looking for them. I also am not into porn, yeah I check it out but rarely. However, I am addicted to the whole A process. I like the chase, usually if she is to forward or to easy I won’t be interested or I will lose interest quickly.

I don’t just pick someone out of the blue, I have to be attracted to her, I have to physically see her ( I never have had an online thing); she has to be involved with someone; with the exception of one that I mentioned earlier, I have never lied to any of them about my marriage. They know I am married, they know my family comes before them. I never make any promises to them.

Usually somewhere during the process I lose interest, out of last 10 years, two has gone to a full blown A’s. Two other were PA’s that didn’t involve much of a chase, but I was still interested enough to have it.
With the exception of my last EA (a young intern) all of them were married or in a committed relationship.

The two PA’s didn’t have any much emotion behind it cause I didn’t want them too, sometimes it really is just sex. But, they can turn emotional pretty easily if they both want it too. The first one happened when I was transferred and my family didn’t move yet… she worked at the front desk and was very cute. It stopped after I left my extended stay and my wife and kids moved up. The other one was a coworker; I bring her up for that fact alone.


Co-Workers – I probably could have had numerous EA’s or PA’s with fellow employees if I wanted to. It is the easiest ways to have one and it maybe be one of the hardest one’s for a BS to find out about. I say this cause a lot of the cheating can be done from work on work phones, emails, and IM (instant messenger). Plus, you see the AP every day, and depending on the job obviously, it is easy to get away (lunch break, business trips, after work gatherings). Also, unless they get caught in the act, your employer isn’t gonna stop it; nobody will come forward even if the suspect it, and HR could careless unless they are made aware, and in most cases even if they are aware, nothing is going to happen unless the act is egregious. If your spouse had an AP and he/she still works with them you’re in trouble. I have heard about work related affairs lasting years even decades. They call them Work Wife’s and Husband’s for a reason.

IM at work is used for socializing most of the time. I am still waiting for some BS to sue some company who allows IM under such grounds. So much flirting and I have to believe a bunch of initial contact between future AP start with IM. Ask your spouse if IM is used at their work. Don’t allow your spouse to go to work related gatherings or after work get together without you. Make your presents known. Let their co-workers see you because co-workers will notice if he/she is always out alone. You showing up, even if you don’t want to can stop anything from starting. If your SO doesn’t want you to go, they shouldn’t go either. Communication with your spouse is a must. Listen to your spouse, who he/she is talking about. It is one of the stupidest things a WS does, but we all seem to do it, we just can’t stop talking about the AP or someone we are interested in. I have even caught myself doing this and made a point not to. If your spouse is having an A with a co-worker, they have to quit the job and expose the affair to HR and co-workers. Tough **** if it is going to hurt financially so does divorce.
I was always against having any type of A’s with a co-worker. I broke my rule this one time. In my case the AP was a co-worker who was engaged. It was very easy to have without getting caught cause it was a PA without any real emotion and contact was kept at work during lunch… daily. They are very hard to end cause it is so easy to have. Mine ended when they moved after getting married. I can still talk to her to this day if I wanted to.


As I mentioned earlier, I had two pretty serious A’s during this time. The first was the shorter and the less serious of the two. It lasted about 8 months and she was the wife of an acquaintance, not a friend yet, but he started to become one and that is why I ended it. I been with all types of females, but I am very drawn/ attracted to girls with tattoos. She is a very nice sleeve; we had a bunch in common and the same interests. They been married for 5 years, but together for 10, she never cheated before (I believe her because she was very nervous in the beginning and not experienced at these type of things.) They were having problems, but seemed very much into each other, they wanted kids but had problems conceiving and he was the bread winner and wasn’t happy that she hardly worked. Here are the steps that led us to cheat…..
I met her when a mutual friend of her husband and I was leaving her job and moving out of state. I was instantly attracted to the AP, but her H was there and I made some small talk but kept it light. As the night went we would find ways to talk to each other in group settings but by the end of the night, I felt a mutual attraction between us. I didn’t see her again for a few months, didn’t seek her, hoped to run into her again and did when the friend that left came to visit and she had a get together. I only stopped by but the AP made it obvious that she didn’t want me to leave so soon, I had to but we exchanged #’s secretly before I left.
The Beginning of an A: Like any relationship, this is the feeling out process, and when there is still guilt for what you are doing. You will rationalize it as just a friendship and it is in the most part, but the intentions aren’t and this is why you have to know what your spouse is doing, if you feel something is wrong ACT. The more time you wait the closer the two gets. I hate when I see the BS tell their tale and mention feeling early on something isn’t right but afraid to act on it or being manipulated not to. In our A, I even mentioned to her if her H knows she gave me her #. Knowing full well she didn’t, but was letting her know I didn’t care without outright saying it. I like to take my time, pushing and pulling, stringing her along, making her want to want me more and more each time. She would ask to see each other and I wouldn’t initially, but by the time we met I had her. I had to teach her how to hide it, and she got good at it.

It got pretty serious with the “I love you” and all that. It was not real, but it does feel like it at the time and if we got caught, her H would have had a hell of a time getting her out of the fog. I suspect she would of broken NC. Since I never have been caught I can’t say for certain what I would do if a WS tried contact me after D day. I know that I would be ****ting my pants hoping to gawd that her H won’t contact my W. For that fact alone, I wouldn’t contact her, but as time went by and if she contacted me, I would think it easily could start up again. This is why have to EXPOSE… just stop being scared and do it right when you find out.

An A never seems to get old, it is always exciting and as you keep getting away with it, it becomes as important as anything, if not more. You stop feeling guilty and the BS has officially lost their spouse. I actually tried ending this A couple times and each time failed. It is very easy to be pulled back in, but I did end it, she didn’t handle it well…. but did move on. But since we never got caught, I am positive that if I was to contact her at anytime, she would be mine again…. And this is the reason, I do not trust allowing your WS to get out of the fog on their own. I have seen BS allow this, and it makes me cringe each time cause even if you get your W back, it is very easy to lose him/her again. They did it once, they will do it again… cause you allowed it once, you will allow it again. REAL CONSEQUENCES causes the WS to look back at the A and the AP in disgust… this is what you want.

Guess there is going to be 4 parts of my story, cause the last A I had was the most intense and I really got lost into it. It drained me, for the first time I put her, the AP before my family. I didn’t like that at all. It is the A that finally woke me up enough to finally seek help and really try to change my behavior.
 

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Does this whole post mean you'll go on having as many affairs as you can because you're just an Affair kind of guy?
 

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I find it somewhat ironic that your name is The Bishop, yet you cheat constantly...

I feel like a Bishop in real life would be above that.

Out of curiosity, are you religious?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Atheist. And I picked Bishop cause they were preaching god but allowing priests to abuse children. By NO means do I condone abusing children, it is the worst behavior I could think of. I am not a monster like priests and enabling Bishops, but I wear two faces.... one a loving husband and father and one as a serial selfish cheater. I am as phony as some of them just not as sick.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I wonder, sir, what if you were to find out that your wife was also having numerous affairs, what then?
You know what.... I feel so bad betraying someone so good, it probably would make me feel somewhat better. I have certainly put her on a pedestal and think she is all that is right with the world. To find out she isn't and just like me would at least allow me to confess fully without the very real possibility of losing her.
 

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You know what.... I feel so bad betraying someone so good, it probably would make me feel somewhat better. I have certainly put her on a pedestal and think she is all that is right with the world. To find out she isn't and just like me would at least allow me to confess fully without the very real possibility of losing her.
I think you suffer from the madonna/w*ore complex
 

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How many affairs have you had so far in total? [Assuming you're not a troll]
Can I ask how old you are?
 

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Lovely girl, bishop is not a troll. And in fact I am surprised you say that. It seems obvious to me that this story is not troll like at all. It has no patterns of one.

He has given great advice to people going through the mill, from a cheater's perspective. From a man with narcissistic tendencies and selfish acts, this perspective imo is hugely useful.

When you first come here as a fogged BS you think your situation is different, that your circumstances may somehow not mean the obvious, and that most of the advice givers on here are bitter, twisted, and clouded by their own situation and the betrayal they have experienced (and so dubious as advice givers)....which a lot are (bitter, twisted)..... but the advice is mostly very real, very important, and very apt. But I don't think it is necessarily given in a positive way. Quite the opposite in fact.

I think it's great to have an opposite perspective and not just the sea of 'bitter folk' that can be so off putting to newcomers. And in fact, a different perspective for all actually, I find it useful, interesting, and I have been waiting for the bishop to finally tell his story.

And I think the bishop is a very welcome and valuable member of this advice giving forum. And I am glad you are here the bishop :)
 

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In parts, large parts, you are my stbxw or, just as bad, you're one of her 'other' men

and if I'm honest, and not wanting to get banned, I have to control my anger as I write this.

When I consider the complete destruction to my children, myself, the families of all the other married men she 'sailed' into. The peripheral family of each and every one of them.......fk me

Listen I know you have not ( well I hope) murdered or raped but the ripples of your despicable personality / actions have destroyed countless lives just like those two terrible crimes have ...

but here's what gets me

"Oh I've got this mental issue" or "Oh that medication made me....." (no doubt you'll be telling us about those)

Somehow that always gets you off the hook, somehow you people always end up getting some kind of fking sympathy because you're a "nice" guy you're "sociable" you're "charismatic"

I know you've not committed any tabulated kind of crime here but I'd personally throw away the fking key

( and Remains, yes it is 'interesting' but I for one, and you should not either, ever forget just what type of person we are dealing with here )
 

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Bishop, can I ask a few questions from a BS point of view? I like your honest posts.

Are you still having affairs and ONS or have you broken this destructive regime?

I wonder, what do you imagine your lovely wife would do, say, feel should she discover your life of betrayal to her and your babies?

Did you ever 'love' any of these OW, or was it just sexual gratification?

Do you feel you truly love your wife?

How is sex with your wife?

Do you find your wife physically attractive?

How do you reconcile with yourself when you have come from another woman and now you're lying in the eyes of your beautiful, loving wife?
 

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:) Headspin, I agree. It is easy to forget.

But I do see things from both sides. I always try to. I realise that all people have their issues, and that the bigger the issues the bigger the unhappiness. I also believe that cheating is in just about every one of us to varying degrees. I think given certain circumstances in the right place and the right order and the right time, even the most steadfast can be capable.

Additionally, cheating has been going on since the beginning of time. It is as much a part of human behaviour as is food, shelter, sex, religion (maybe not done everyday but all knows people who have cheated - note I said people and not someone). This behaviour is so damaging, it is one of the deadly sins! But also it has been a behaviour since the beginning of time, just as murder has.

We all have to deal with the unsavoury side of human nature in our lives, and we have all done bad things ourselves to varying degrees. No one is immune to doing bad things to others. Everyone is tainted by that brush. It is how we deal with our actions that is the true test of decency. And we all get sh*t on in some way at some point throughout our lives too.

Some people are more prone to double crossing, betraying, lying, cheating, robbing, selfish and cowardly behaviour than others.

Some have things happen to them in more awful ways and with more disastrous consequences than others who receive that same treatment from another. All is swings and roundabouts at the end of the day.

We live well, our reward is happiness with ourselves. We live selfishly, the reward is unhappiness with our self, and other people wishing ill of us too. I would rather be happy. We have enough people in life telling us how sh*t we are, we don't need to be telling ourself that too!

What I find most admirable, respectful, noteworthy, more so than someone who has been 'good', and predisposed to 'good' behaviour all their lives, more than someone who's 'goodness' comes naturally, is someone who has been 'bad', recognises this, faces it, deals with it, and overcomes it, makes all efforts to overcome it. This is the mark of someone who deserves to be respected, just as those are who are naturally 'good', and admired for their courage. For someone with such a longstanding pattern of selfish behaviour, it is a difficult thing to change.

For anyone at all and for whatever fault they may have, it is difficult to change. Add a large helping of selfishness, that change is all the more difficult, important, and to be fully recognised imo.
 

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"What I find most admirable, respectful, noteworthy, more so than someone who has been 'good', and predisposed to 'good' behaviour all their lives, more than someone who's 'goodness' comes naturally, is someone who has been 'bad', recognises this, faces it, deals with it, and overcomes it, makes all efforts to overcome it. This is the mark of someone who deserves to be respected, just as those are who are naturally 'good', and admired for their courage. For someone with such a longstanding pattern of selfish behaviour, it is a difficult thing to change"

I agree with this...providing they are true in their reconciliation with them self....that must come first, before even considering a true reconciliation with the BS.
 

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:)
What I find most admirable, respectful, noteworthy, more so than someone who has been 'good', and predisposed to 'good' behaviour all their lives, more than someone who's 'goodness' comes naturally, is someone who has been 'bad', recognises this, faces it, deals with it, and overcomes it, makes all efforts to overcome it. This is the mark of someone who deserves to be respected......
:scratchhead:

mmm........ okay, lets ask all the people who's lives, the gfs, the husbands, the kids, grandparents, that have been completely obliterated by this man - over decades! Lets find out what their level of 'respect' is for him!!?

Sorry but he does'nt get off that lightly in my world. I'm still answering questions my little girl asks me about at bed time why her "mummy is no longer here", "why do you not look at mummy any more daddy" ?? etc etc "Why does'nt nanny like mummy anymore etc etc"

My stbxw is similar to this man

I don't find anything "admirable respectful noteworthy" that puts somebody like this on a higher plaine than a good honest person who gives their all, their heart and soul to a man or woman over years of marriage

This is what gets me - somehow, somefkinghow, these people manage to invoke some sympathy from people and that's how they can go on and feel good about themselves imo

I don't think anybody that has been through what this man has put people through will learn an awful lot from this

I'll stop ......
 

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Lovely girl, bishop is not a troll. And in fact I am surprised you say that. It seems obvious to me that this story is not troll like at all. It has no patterns of one.
I knew he was a cheater but I didn't know he still is until I read the thread yesterday. I thought he had left the cheating life behind. While reading his opening post, I liked it in the sense that he was giving a different/clear perspective of what goes on a cheater's mind. But I have to be honest. I was waiting for a "I've left this behind" at the end of his post.
 
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