Big Mama, You are focused on the wrong issues. This is not about whether he will harbor any ill will if you return. The question is, "What has he done to assure you that he will no longer be abusive?" and back to the same old patterns that led you to leave in the first place. Let him prove that he has changed. If he truly has changed, he will recognize that there is no place to blame you for leaving and him having to pay extra support.

 

Thank you. I am still fearful, but hopefully in time that will go away. I am working in T to be trusting but not naive. You are right hoperully he will recognize there is no place for blame. Not either of us. A new start requires a fully NEW start.

 

You neglected to mention what he does that is abusive (I am not acquainted with any of your previous posts). You said he threatened to turn off the phones and internet, but that by itself means very little.

So as it stands, I'm not sure whether you're over-reacting and being irrational. Or whether your actions were entirely appropriate.

 

Ok. What did he do that was so abusive. Well he never laid a hand on me or the kids. Let me start off with that. He would raise his voice and then stand almost touching me and look downwards at me (he is a foot taller then me). He would bump into me "by accident" as he walked past. He would argue with me and stand blocking the doorway so that I had to ASK him to move. He stood where he knew I needed to be. I was afraid to ask him to move, like making coffee and I needed to get a spoon out of the drawer. He has OCD as well. I remember him yelling "Yall get in here, who didn't pick this debbie cake wrapper up and put it in the trash. YALL, that in included me, yall was me to, and he would line us all up and someone would have to admit to it. He would have me and the kids pick up dirty gravel out of the driveway, he would have us clean fly spit off the windows. I remember washing some grease off teh grass outside. I spilled some cooking oil on the grass while I was walking to pour it out over the fence. We had made french fries the yummy way

He didn't like me talking on the phone after he got home, he didn't like me using the computer to talk to people, he didn't like me visiting with my family, he didn't want me hanging out with people because WE didn't have time or the energy to invest in friendships.

In his defence, you have no idea the kind of abuse I went threw before I met him and we got married. I have HSP. (Highly sensitive personality) I have sensory issues in regards to sound everything sounds like it is x10. I have issues with personal space as well. I need lots and lots of it. I'm a "Please don't stand so close to me" kinda person. I also cry very easily because I get triggered. My fight, flight and freeze response goes off with very little reason.

My H has learned to set in the floor when have intense discussions. That way i am at a height advantage. He has learned to set across the room when we have discussions. He doesn't get any where near the door. He has followed through with these things for over a year. That is why I do believe he is capable of change.

At the end of our relationship, we just were not getting along at all. The bills were barely getting paid and he wanted the landline phone cut off and the internet threw the landline cut off. It was a constant issue that I was using the computer instead of talking to him. I was using it to avoid him. (again, I am not faultless in this marriage) Those were some biggies. But he also wanted the cell phone cut off. He was going out of business and we were no longer going to have the business pay for cell phones, but he was not going to get me a phone. He was going to leave me at home all day with no phone. What if I fell and got hurt. He was going to leave me at home with little children and no phone. That just not wise. I get that he was also triggered over finances. His control of that stuff came from a place of fear, financial fear. My leaving came out of a place of fear to though. Abuse was a common theme and no phone and no internet, no way to talk to the outside world, was not something I was ready to embrace. We live in the country. It's not like I can go outside and talk to my neighbor. I can't even see one neighbors house from mine. i might can yell to my other neighbors house and they maybe can here me if they happen to be outside.

That is hte bulk of hte issues in the past few years. I do think he is teachable and trainable. He may also have aspergers. IT makes him a very black and whit thinker. It makes him not have the ability to think of others feeling the way we do. It makes him oblivious to a lot of social things. Like DON'T STAND TO CLOSE, or say excuse me instead of "GET YOUR ASS OUT OF THE WAY" . When these things are brought to his attention he is usually able to change them and eventually recognize that was not the correct way to handle things.

So that is it in a nut shell. Like I said I am at fault here to. I came with a lot of baggage to. I have my share of contributions to the issues to,

 

Hang in there. The most difficult part is making the decision to separate and then following through with it. Take care of yourself and take the time you need to really consider what you want. I am glad that he is at least still providing support. To me, that shows some hope. But, take your time. Be deliberate and be careful. Don't go back too soon. Don't believe his words. Believe only his actions. God bless.

 

What type of abuse?

50 bucks spending money???? Crap, my wife spends that at Starbucks....in a week. What's his problem?

Unless you feel comfortable and safe...why would you consider going back?

 

Prior to leaving $900 was for groceries for a family of 5 for a month and for gas for a month, plus 50 spending.

Now that I am gone he give me 150 more then that. for me and two kids.

I was comfortable there. The house was new. We designed and built it ourselves. It was ours, the lights never got turned off, and neither did the phone because the bills were not paid. We always had groceries and we never went hungry. We always had clothes to wear.

 

Abusers rarely if ever...change. Don't let his scare tactics of 'no income and three kids' cause you to come back to an abuser. If he didn't want to abuse you, he would not have. People can lose their tempers, people can have bad days...weeks. We are all human. But abuse is different, and since you're classifying it as such, to me? There is not much hope that he means what he says. Abusers are masters at manipulating to get what they want..which is their victim back in their rightful spot. My advice, is to stop hoping you can change an abuser, and stay focused on your kids and finding a better new life. He has conditioned you to thinking you can't do better than him...trust me, you can.

 

I would guess the issue of fidelity is the biggest issue in his mind. Was this issue ever raised ? If so is it settled? Understand you issues need to be settled but his does too.

I understand the long term success rates (when both couples want to reconcile) for a wife taking back a WH is around 30 percent. For a husband with a WW it is around 10 percent.

 

Fidelity was never an issue. He didn't have another woman on the side. We were both faithful to each other. Even since we have been separated. If he drink, drugged or cheated or hit me, those were the things I would leave and never return for. Those have not happened.

 

Your hb is abusive. Period. That is unlikely to change.

There's a very good chance that if you go back he will continue to be abusive.
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Why are you going back?

 

Big Mama, I did not allow my H back into my space until he realized fully how to be safe around me and our son. It was no longer on me to manage my fear. Do you want to know why? Because I had already worked through every last bit of irrational fear and was down to 100% rational reasonable fear. It is not my job to manage my rational fear to the degree that I make him comfortable in abusive attitudes. Otherwise I'm conditioning myself to accept abuse. If you are fearing his attitude, it means you are picking up on a remaining underlying abusive attitude and I would not return until you know its gone, resolved, addressed. That is rational reasonable and SHOULD give you pause. I would be very adamant and direct.

"I am not returning until you've learned proper loving attitudes towards me, otherwise I will only be placing myself in harms way, and I can no longer do that. And if it is not learned I will not be returning, so don't expect it."

 

True. The fact that I am still fearful says i am not ready to return. I have learned a lot in T and so has he. The understanding when I left was that I will return only if He goes to T faithfully, (and me to) and if eventually we do joint T, and we will stay in joint T even after I return. We are using the same T we started with a few years ago, that has dealt with my traumatic past, did his psych evaluations, and worked on some joint marriage T with us as well. I have told my H and the T both I will not return until she, the T, thinks it is safe. When she thinks he has made changes, I have made changes and we have made changes as a couple, then and only then will I go back. If the T says ya know, he is jsut resistant to change, then I will not go back. If I still have to much of my own personal junk to work on then returning will be delayed. If she sees that we are just not a good fit and this will not work then I will not go back based on her opinion.

 

It is amazing that he is choosing to give you comfort when yall are talking. He is doing it with his body. That is excellent. Has he also translated that into his words. If he has, it won't take that much more for it to translate to better attitudes. In my experience, if they learn to physically create safety, then verbally create safety, then the attitudes start coming to the surface and dissipate, but he may have to do some focused work in that area to get the job finished. I'm impressed with the work already done Big Mama, but know... If you chose to never go back, I would not blame you.

 

Blossom Leigh - Thank you for your support. I am trying to do the right thing. I have been married to the same man for 21 years. We share 3 children. We have built a house togehter, all our dreams are finally coming true except this one. To have and to hold each other all the rest of the days of our lives. I want to be able to look back and say we have been married 80 years. We had some glitches along the way, but both of us were faithful and love always prevails. That is also what God wants to.

In the end I can say I gave it every single effort, and exhausted every option. I tried my hardest. Weather this does or doesn't work out, I could not have left and been content knowing I didn't do everything humanly possible to make this marriage work. Now I can say that and I am willing to finish this out, and then let the chips fall where they may.

 

Hi read @DayOne thread. His wife left him for over a year (no children) about your age. He did change and they are slowly putting there lives back together. It shows the slow evolution of change and how it permeated though his entire life.

Would be amazing to read his wife's thought. Perhaps you can be the female version of him on this board.

 

Thank you for sharing John. I will definitely look that up. Thanks.

 

Got your PM. Thanks.

I've had a quick read over your posts. This isn't the first time you've separated from him since you've been on TAM. 2014 and again now. Yet you insist you want to be able to make to old age together. I'm not sure how this is possible, given the repeated separations and posts about how badly, abusively he behaves.

I wonder if you want something that's just not achievable. You want him to be a nice guy. You want to be happy, with him. Which I 'get', but, is that possible? You're both in 'T' as you call it, and working on some deep issues. And need to continue to do so.

It's great that you've figured out that individual 'T' is the way to go. Marriage counselling won't do anything for you if you're not working on yourselves. As the issues you bring to the marriage are your own. You need to own yours, and he his. You cannot, as much as you want to, 'fix' him. And vice versa.

From some of the things you've said, I don't think he's mad at you as such. He's mad at himself, his demons. Unfortunately you're the target when they plague him. Which I can relate to. Right now he needs the time and space to fight those demons, without the distraction of you. He has to direct that energy inwardly, towards his own pain, not outwardly, inflicting it on you.

Also, I wonder if you're 'expecting' that kind of treatment. You've said you had a lot of abuse in your past. Is there a part of you that thinks, due to how you were treated, that you 'deserve' to be treated badly? That somehow what happened to you was your own 'fault' (it wasn't) and that this is all you are (it isn't), that you don't deserve more (you do). Also, if you don't get back together, that is was your fault (it wasn't).

Put those two personalities together, and you have already seen what happens. As did we. It took us separating to finally work on our own individual issues, rather than trying to fix 'us'.

AFTER a lot of work had been put in, we began to relearn, from scratch things we'd forgotten. Trust, respect, communication, forgiveness, understanding of where the other was coming from, and putting aside old habits/coping mechanisms.

Only you know for sure if and when he's changing. Whether you can open up to him, a little at a time. Allow a little trust. Just a little.

But, IMO, from what you've said, neither of you are ready to try anything more than 'dating' yet. Go back to basic's. Date each other. Get together, coffee or dinner, on occasion. Just talk. Build communication. If this is going to be the beginning of a new relationship, MAKE it a new relationship. Get to know each other all over again.

And expect it to take a LONG time. There will be triggers, flashbacks, glimpses of the 'old marriage'. Learn to work through them, see them for what they are and grow from them.

That's all I've got for now. I wish you well. You were right that a LOT of TAM stories don't end well. I hope you can be one of the good ones.

 

Got your PM. Thanks.

I've had a quick read over your posts. This isn't the first time you've separated from him since you've been on TAM. 2014 and again now. Yet you insist you want to be able to make to old age together. I'm not sure how this is possible, given the repeated separations and posts about how badly, abusively he behaves.

I wonder if you want something that's just not achievable. You want him to be a nice guy. You want to be happy, with him. Which I 'get', but, is that possible? You're both in 'T' as you call it, and working on some deep issues. And need to continue to do so.

There have been a couple of separations. One for a weekend. Which did little, and why would it, given the knowledge I have now. We separated for 6 weeks on separate occasion. I was still very much fearful at that time and not near as persistent as I should have been. (which may have been because of my own demons and not so much because of him, but I can't guarantee that, it's still hard to tell what was true and what was perceived) He was working out of town so it was a good time to be separated. He could come into town to attempt individual counseling. When he could and when it was convenient. When he came home 6 weeks later, weh was still out of town during the week but spent weekends at home. Eventually that ended with him being at home full time. You know. Ya can't work out of town forever.

We are now separated, i requested separation several times, and suggested it more times then I can count. It was never granted. But again why would he agree to a separation, thats jsut crazy if you are running scared. (which I think he was) I see that now. Eventually I simply said I am leaving and he wanted to know what would it take to convince me to stay. I told him nothing could convince me to stay. He then wanted to know what about to go away and come back, what would it take to make that happen. He would do what even necessary. So I told him, I go to IC and you go ti IC ( IC = Individual Counseling). Later we go to T together, upon clearance from the T, I will return. We will continue with MC (MC = Marriage Counseling) cause this is not going to be a quick and easy process, and I have proven that I settle for abuse. That is not good for me, my kids or anyone involved. I am learning how to expect more and demand more. Abuse is not right. If that is what it is, and it is not perceived that way. Again it is hard to tell exactly. Working on that to.

Let me give you a quick run down of what T has looked like. 3 years ago, we went to MC, after 6 mo, I cam unglued and broke down and told the T and my H about a past that involved rape. A shock to my H, I didn't say anything about it for 18 years. The T knew something was up, jsut not sure what until I told her. I then started IC. And did IC, with some MC along the way to help my H deal and understand all this. We waffled back and forth between IC and MC. Eventually after we seperated for 6 weeks he went for some IC, but was certain he didn't need it.

At the current: I am in IC, and have been for quite sometime. Never really stopped for 3 years now. We have both had the same T, she knows my story and she knows his and she knows ours togehter. During the separation I told him he could go to whatever T, Just that I wanted him in T. He choose to stay with our T. Our T agreed she could do IC and for both of us separated and MC later on.

He has been faithful to individual T, and she has been working with him on how to help me and how to overcome some of his issues as well. We have been separated since Sept. We both have IC, mine being every week and his every other or so. But we jsut started MC together again together. We had session 1 last week. We have started to "date". Not at my house or at his. We don't want any pressure to be intimate. ( we as in T and I) We need time together to give conversations and glitches to arise so we can put newly learned skills to use, and to determine if returning would be best for us.


I'm still really nervous about returning. I don't trust him quite yet, and I don't trust me either really. I will not be going back any time soon. But eventually yes. MAYBE, IDK.

From some of the things you've said, I don't think he's mad at you as such. He's mad at himself, his demons. Unfortunately you're the target when they plague him. Which I can relate to. Right now he needs the time and space to fight those demons, without the distraction of you. He has to direct that energy inwardly, towards his own pain, not outwardly, inflicting it on you.

Also, I wonder if you're 'expecting' that kind of treatment. You've said you had a lot of abuse in your past. Is there a part of you that thinks, due to how you were treated, that you 'deserve' to be treated badly? That somehow what happened to you was your own 'fault' (it wasn't) and that this is all you are (it isn't), that you don't deserve more (you do). Also, if you don't get back together, that is was your fault (it wasn't)

Thank you. I agree some of his issues are due to his own pain and are being projected upon me. He is starting to get uncomfortable with his aloneness. OR maybe he is done and ready to give up, IDK. I think getting comfortable with aloneness is a good thing even though it sucks at the moment.

I have never known anything but abuse and yelling, and yeah more abuse. I am learning in T how to not settle for that, and want more, and teach my little girl too expect more for herself. I am incredibly weak at the moment, and desperately need my T's help and guidance when things arise and learn how to speak up and not cower. That is where MC is vital to fixing this.

 

DayOne - Thank you so much for taking the time to respond and be so transparent. I do indeed find encouragement form the fact that things are working for you and your wife. Though there have been struggles I am sure, I'm glad things are going well for yall. I hope the same can be said for me in a year from now, or two years, how ever long it takes to get over this mountain and finally stop to enjoy the view.

Thank you again for responding. You have no idea what your words mean to me.

 

Big Mama,

When reading about the way your husband has been acting, this link came to mind,

The Other Side of the Wall - The Forgiven Wife

Not defending the actions of your husband, but the article describes some of what he may be feeling.

It sounds like he does care about you, and is trying to work thru things. He wants to be close to you, but the way he feels closest to you, triggers you.

In his head, he knows your rejections are from past issues, but in his heart, it still hurts when he is pushed away.

May I suggest you have him read the link, and express to him that you are aware of his feelings as well??

It is unfair you have to deal with past CSA issues in order to improve your current relationship.

 

Thank you. Every time I read anything by the forgiven wife I want to cry. I have been such an ass. He is such a difficult person he pushes me to that point. But only I can take responsibility for my own behaviors and thoughts and actions .

 

I walk several miles a day, I will be lifting you & your husband up in prayer while I'm walking.

 

Thank you. I must be having a hormonal moment. That makes me want to cry. But in the best possible way. Thank you so much. Ultimately that is all that any one can do. Fixing this mess is up to God first and us next. In that exact order.

 

WOW. It has been since March since I have been here. So many things have changed. Let me give you a quick update. Things are going well. I am good. My kids are good. One kid started collage, the middle kid is living with his dad, and the smallest is still with me. It has been a year since we separated. Well jsut a hair over a year. I have decided to go back to my H. I have decided to go back and work on things. Some things have changed, some attitudes and ways of thinking. I still have reservations about returning. It only took me 5 years leave, why it would take a year for me to go home is beyond me. I and not ready to go home, but I feel like I should. Teh time has come, the beginning of a new school year, it is before the insanity of the holidays.

Most people would say DON'T GO BACK TO HIM. But I really feel that I have to, I owe it to myself. I owe myself this one last thing. If things have truly changed then I will stay, if not then I can honestly and truly say I have tried everything. I have given it my all, I have exhausted every avenue. I need to be able to live with what ever decision I make, and this is the only way I see that it will be possible. If I need to leave, then I think I can and the one person who I need to make happy will then be happy (ME) because I tried and gave it 110 %.

Tomorrow is the day, tomorrow is the last day, the day of no turning back. It is the day that I have made my decision. Prayers woudl be appreciated. Thank you.

 

I don't understand why you don't at least try to become financially independent from your abuser. I mean, he had to support you while you were separated so how could he even take you seriously to begin with?

Just because you haven't worked for 20 years doesn't mean you can't work NOW. Your kids aren't infants and there's only so much laundry you have to do in a day. Jeez, women return to the workforce every single day and live to tell the tale.

What would you do if this guy disappeared tomorrow? What if he just took off and deserted you? Where would you be then?

Seriously, what would you DO since you're choosing to be completely dependent on him?

You need to become financially independent so you have OPTIONS. And it's safe to say he wasn't going to finance your 'separation' for an indefinite amount of time, so even though you didn't post anything about it, I'd be willing to bet part of your decision to return to him was based on him telling you that he wasn't going to support this separation for much longer.

It's not prayers you need. It's better options.

 

Thanks for the support. WOW. OK. I do not work, I home school my autistic son. We live in a terrible county and there is little funding to meet the needs of special needs kids here. So I do what is best for my child, I home school him.

I have am looking out for my future by the way. Since I have not worked in so many years, I can get lifetime alamoney if it comes down to that. In the backwards county in which I live if a woman is unemployed and the H works there is still limited amamoney awarded. If they are together for 25 years and she doesn't work during those 25 years, (consistently or frequently and for more then a year) then lifetime alamoney is often awarded.The attorney told me to work under the table. That is what I do. I do bring in some income but not a huge salary. It is inconsistent work, but it pays well when it does pay.

 

If you do go back, hang on to your current living situation (or have another lined up) in case you need to leave again quickly. Even if he is sincere in working on things, he is going to have anger and resentment - the key is whether he can keep those under control and eventually get over them.

 

The advice from my T was to continue to keep the house I was renting for at least 6 months, longer if I am uncertin. She seems to think I will know for sure if things are going to work or not. With the holidays coming and the stress that comes with that. Then in January and February the depression that sometimes occurs after the holidays, I will surely know by then.

We have a back up plan. The T has two of my kids in T, separate from me. If anything alarming comes up then she will help me leave. The first plan is what is in the best interest of my children. My little girl is not so sure about returning. She is a child, she wants to but not he other hand she doesn't want to. She asked me what would happen if we started arguing agian, and her daddy made me cry again. I told her we might argue like she does with her brother, and I might cry like she does when her brother is aggravating, but if her daddy is aggravating a lot or makes me cry a lot, then we are moving. She wanted to know if she could have friends over, I told her absolutely she could. Her concern was that her daddy was nto going to let her have visitors. I told her things are going to be different now, He WILL allow her to have visitors or we will nto stay .She wanted to know was he going to make her get rid of her cat, and I told her no, If he doesn't want to keep the cat then he is not going to keep us, we will move.

The T said that was my golden key . The key to an end. If I need to leave then my response to him is "I made a promise to that little girl adn I intend on keeping that promise."

The other option is the T and I simply tell my H that it is not going to work. Then she helps me leave. We do have to be realist and be prepared for the worst case senerio. In the event that things are very bad the T will tell my H that she is going to report him to social services and the kids will be taken, she is not really going to take them. She is going to give me the option to move me and them away from there dad. It is unlikely that will happen. But you do have to be prepared for the unthinkable. In the event that she says leave and I do not though she will report to social services. She has my best interest in mind, and she has cares greatly for children. She is the best T in the world. I feel safe moving forward into this.

My H has done a lot of T over the past year and she ok wit home going back and that has been the goal for a long time. The T and I agreed a year ago if she didn't think it was a good idea then I would listen to her. Only after her recommendation that she thought it was safe and he had changed should I even begin to consider returning. I feel like I am doing the right thing. It is a hard thing to do, but it is the right thing.

 

I have been praying for you & your husband. Please see him with clear eyes, not thru the lenses of bad experiences with prior men. Hold him accountable for ONLY the things he has done or is doing. And if he has asked for forgiveness for past actions, and is not currently doing them, let it go.