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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am a WS who has been visiting this website for a few weeks now as has my BS Stargazer(SG). Our D'Day was last April and since then I have put SG through the hell of trickle truthing, lying to protect myself and for the first few weeks after D day maintained phone contact with the AP. The affair lasted two and a half years and prior to that I was close freinds with the AP for around 6 months. A major betrayal.

I had the affair for selfish reasons, i was flattered, it was an ego trip, i kidded myself that the AP and me were 'soul mates' and was excited that someone seemed to need me so much, the sex was exciting. I maximised all the good things about the AP and minimised all the negatives.

In short I was selfish, cruel and manipulative towards a woman who had done nothing to deserve it and all for the sake of a fantasy.

SG has been amazing and has worked so hard to keep us together despite my continued trickle truthing and evasion. I know this sounds self pittying and I guess it is. Now I find it hard to believe that I could have been so totally cruel and self centred and it is hard to realize that about yourself.

The good news is that there are no more lies, secrets or deception. I have no desire to see the AP ever again despite occassional attempts by her to contact me and let me know she is still available. I want complete R with SG more than anything and to spend the rest of our lives together. We are looking at our marriage prior to the A and working on addressing the issues that had made the marriage in many ways a sham.

I know that SG must look at me and wonder who i am and if I am going to smash her world apart again. I have lied so many times before, how can she ever believe me again?

If the roles were reversed I don't think I could ever trust again and it would eat me up. SG is amazing to have stayed with me despite all i've done.

My question, I guess, is what can I do to reassure her that I am totally committed to her and our relationship together? In your experiences what are the most important things to do?

Sorry for the rambling post, delighted to hear from anyone out there
 

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Hi,

- never tell your spouse that she must "move on" or imply it "is about time we stopped talking about it."

- be 100% open about everything. Go overboard letting her know where you are. Even if you are only going to be 5 minutes late, let her know why and where you are.

- keep telling her you love her.

- keep telling you are sorry and regret what you did

- understand that it isn't "a mistake". It was hundreds of decisions, each one a betrayal. That isn't "a mistake".

- tell her you are glad she is with you and that you enjoy being with her. You can't do this enough.

- tell her how good sex is with her, but don't patronise her by making out sex with the AP was no good. Obviously, don't mention that if possible. Tell her how much you enjoy it when you touch her/she touches you.

Be honest about everything. Even a small oversight (not even a lie) can crush the betrayed spouse for days.

- accept that you can never be trusted. Ideally never give your wife a reason to have to trust you. Provide evidence without asking and without rancour.

Good luck. I really hope you guys make it.

I admire you for posting here. It can be a hostile place for those that have strayed.
 

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accept, show remorse lots of it. Be open like a book, and do everything you can and prove to her. My wife atm is trying but there are times i feel like she falls short of my expectations. Some days she does good then somedays i almost wonder if she relaxes.

Good luck man cause it is going to be real hard to ever believe you again. There may honestly be a little suspicion for the rest of your life. But i don't know i'm only 2 months in to my D-day and probably 3 weeks into actually real R and not false R.

I'm sure some of the vets who have gone through this longer then me could answer that, i just figure id give my 2 cents since this is still totally fresh for me and am in the process of trying to for give my WS
 

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I had the affair for selfish reasons, i was flattered, it was an ego trip...

If the roles were reversed I don't think I could ever trust again and it would eat me up. SG is amazing to have stayed with me despite all i've done.

My question, I guess, is what can I do to reassure her that I am totally committed to her and our relationship together?
IMHO, I bolded the word ego because you allowed your ego to be in control of your reason. It should be the other way around. YOU should be in control of your ego. It's a constant daily battle for many people, but until you get it under your control, you will probably do this again...

The next thing I bolded was an entire sentence. It's ironic that you seem to want more from your wife than you'd be willing to give TO your wife, had the roles been reversed. This tells me that our ego is still 'in charge', only it's in charge by way of arrogance.

Your wife doesn't "owe" you her trust, no matter how many 'nice things' you do for her...no matter how many times you tell her you love her...no matter how often you call her and tell her you'll be 5 minutes late.

Think about how YOU would feel and how YOU would react if she did this to you. Don't just tell yourself that you'd be "upset". Try to visualize what you would do, how you would do it, what you would say and how you would say it. And then understand that you can expect NO MORE from your wife. If you would divorce her, then you can not blame your wife if she divorces you. If you would scream at her and call her names, then again...you can not expect any LESS from her.

I find it both ironic and pitiful that the WS THINKS about this stuff AFTER the they have already cheated (and not BEFORE, when it would might make a difference) PLUS, that they already KNOW how they would feel/react, yet they expect MORE from the BS.

Good luck.

Vega
 

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If the OW tries to contact you again see a lawyer and have him send her a warning that any further attempt to make contact with you or yours will be met with a court order and a filing of stalking. Let your wife know that you are doing this.

otherwise I think Chris Ody, and Vega have it spot on.
 

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I'm glad to see this thread, but I feel a little strange.

I've only known about TAM for around a month, it has been enlightening. It helped me find strength. I see this as an opportunity. Not quite sure if or what else I can say at this point.

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SG did you expose the OW to her husband? Her work? her Family?

Do you have any issue with what Lister wrote? He says you know it all now. Is that your sense of things? Was it your sense that you knew all when you were being TT'ed?

Do you have children - and if so, how has it affected them? Are you staying only for the children?
 

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SG did you expose the OW to her husband? Her work? her Family?

Do you have any issue with what Lister wrote? He says you know it all now. Is that your sense of things? Was it your sense that you knew all when you were being TT'ed?

Do you have children - and if so, how has it affected them? Are you staying only for the children?
I didn't know about exposure when I caught him. TBH I wasn't capable of thinking of anything much for the first few months.... and I felt so humiliated that I really didn't want to do anything that would make me look anymore foolish than I already felt. The AP is single but is politically active (she was campaigning to become an MSP in the midst of the A) I now wish I had known about doing this .....he was her third AP, and apart from the obvious feeling that a little karma for her would be nice, I do think the public out to be able to count on the integrity of politicians.

Do I think I know it all? I know as much as I dug for - nothing was volunteered except little nuggets offered to pacify me when I found another damning piece of "evidence". I think I know everything I need to now, and I don't want to know about the sex - I've got the gist. During this time I wanted to believe him every time he told me I "really know it all this time" but I didn't give up digging. Now I'm done with that intensity of investigation and I'm clear .......ONE MORE LIE and I'm done.

I would like to attempt to R. I have a lot of doubts though ....
Although it's been nearly 10 months I've only finally known how long the EA/PA actually lasted for about 5 weeks. So I think we are just emerging from a pre-R stage.

We have made progress in some areas and I have seen a significant difference in his willingness to even talk at all, and now we have started working through HNHN which has been very enlightening and we have a lot of work to do. There have been days where it has been wonderful and many others that haven't.

We have 2 children 22 and 26 this year. They were devastated. They, along with me, and everyone else, thought he was special - the very last man that would do something like this. Seeing my big beautiful son cry was horrible.

I stayed because I love him .....and I didn't know the truth. It has been a slow painful journey to get here - I honestly don't know if I'd have been so willing to try if I had known what it would be like. I have to believe it has been worth something so I'm willing but wary.
 

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Well SG, if he is truly remorseful then he will absolutely appreciate the gem he married. He got the better deal in the marriage by far.

It's up to him now to prove to you that he's worthy of the chance you've given him.

Take your time in this reconciliation. Don't let setbacks that would have been considered minor in your good married days (pre-affair) explode into major ones today, but don't be afraid to speak out when needed.

They, along with me, and everyone else, thought he was special - the very last man that would do something like this. Seeing my big beautiful son cry was horrible.
That's the problem with idolizing anyone. The higher the pedestal the farther the fall and the greater the devastation. You know better now. Give it a chance since his first post seems sincere enough. Your history, though tarnished, is still your history.

Turn the page on that chapter of your lives. Prepare for a few cloudy chapters with an eye for brighter chapters. It is in your power to close the book when you wish.
 

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I have several I want to address here:

WOM, you always have such beautiful, wise posts. Lister and SG, listen to this man when he posts. He's good.

SG, I've gotten to "know" you a bit from the Rec thread. I'm so sorry you're here. As a fWS myself, I find I have a need to apologize to all BSs. I've seen the pain infidelity brings firsthand, and my heart just goes out to those who have been betrayed. R is hard, no question. Tomorrow marks 8 months since our second and final DDay. It's been a difficult road for us both, but there have been some good times too. If the love is there, if Lister is sincere and does the work, then I think healing from this is possible. This forum is amazingly helpful, but keep in mind that it is called "Coping With Infidelity." The majority of couples stay married after infidelity. That doesn't seem to be the case on TAM, which could mean that those that are happy after dealing with the A don't need a forum like this. Don't be overly discouraged about what you read on here; it's not a true representation of couples in R. That does not mean it doesn't have value -finding TAM has been one of the best things DD and I have done -but just keep that point in mind when you are trying to R.

Finally, to Lister, I've posted a similar thread. Ever since my husband sent me the link to the post he made here, I have been asking what I can do to help him, how I can get us through this hell I've made. There are no easy answers. Ok, there are some: honesty, transparency, remorse, giving SG whatever she needs from you in that moment. But sadly there is no quick fix, no eraser to take away the pain we've caused.

Honestly, I think the only thing we have -if our spouses will give it to us -is time. I think it is only with time that we can show them that we want only them, that we can be trustworthy, that we have worked through our selfishness, that we are more sorry than we can ever express, and that we are the same person they married and yet changed in many ways as well.

The 2 most helpful things for me personally have been IC and this forum. If you're not in IC, start calling therapists tomorrow. Look deep in yourself to see how you became a person who could betray your wife and children. It's hard and ugly, but you have to figure it out to convince YOURSELF that you won't ever do this again. I think we have to convince ourselves before we can begin to try to convince our spouses.

And keep posting. Put yourself out there. As a WS, you will get some flames, but take them. When you feel yourself getting defensive, ask yourself why. For me, when I could feel a reaction starting, many times it was because the post touched a little close to home for me and it made me uncomfortable. But we have to face the ugliness that we became and what we did. Only then can we learn and move beyond it.

Best of luck to you and SG both.
 
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So, Lister, you were found out by your W, no? You didn't have an epiphany after 2.5 years of cheating. And when you were found out, you decided you want your W? Not your AP? Why? Was she suddenly irresistible to you? What is it about getting busted that made you want your W again? (And please don't tell me that you never stopped wanting your W....)

This for me is a major part of the trust issue. How can SG trust your feelings now? It's not just all the lying for so long while you're in the A; it's not just the pain of the trickling of truth afterwards; it's also not being able to believe you when you express what you say are your heartfelt feelings now.
 

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Re: Re: Can she ever trust me again?

So, Lister, you were found out by your W, no? You didn't have an epiphany after 2.5 years of cheating. And when you were found out, you decided you want your W? Not your AP? Why? Was she suddenly irresistible to you? What is it about getting busted that made you want your W again? (And please don't tell me that you never stopped wanting your W....)

This for me is a major part of the trust issue. How can SG trust your feelings now? It's not just all the lying for so long while you're in the A; it's not just the pain of the trickling of truth afterwards; it's also not being able to believe you when you express what you say are your heartfelt feelings now.
This is exactly how I feel but I have not been able to express with such eloquence.
 

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i'm confused.....
you say:
he says:
apparently you don't have the whole story.
I shouldn't reply on SG and Listers behalf, I know, but I read it as "I have only known for 5 weeks how long the affair really lasted"
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hi,

- never tell your spouse that she must "move on" or imply it "is about time we stopped talking about it."

- be 100% open about everything. Go overboard letting her know where you are. Even if you are only going to be 5 minutes late, let her know why and where you are.

- keep telling her you love her.

- keep telling you are sorry and regret what you did

- understand that it isn't "a mistake". It was hundreds of decisions, each one a betrayal. That isn't "a mistake".

- tell her you are glad she is with you and that you enjoy being with her. You can't do this enough.

- tell her how good sex is with her, but don't patronise her by making out sex with the AP was no good. Obviously, don't mention that if possible. Tell her how much you enjoy it when you touch her/she touches you.

Be honest about everything. Even a small oversight (not even a lie) can crush the betrayed spouse for days.

- accept that you can never be trusted. Ideally never give your wife a reason to have to trust you. Provide evidence without asking and without rancour.

Good luck. I really hope you guys make it.

I admire you for posting here. It can be a hostile place for those that have strayed.
Thanks Chris, very useful advice though of course it's tough to know that i can never be trusted again although what else can i expect. Not bothered by any hostility, entirely deserved and from it can come learning hopefully, and realisation of the pain i've caused.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
IMHO, I bolded the word ego because you allowed your ego to be in control of your reason. It should be the other way around. YOU should be in control of your ego. It's a constant daily battle for many people, but until you get it under your control, you will probably do this again...

The next thing I bolded was an entire sentence. It's ironic that you seem to want more from your wife than you'd be willing to give TO your wife, had the roles been reversed. This tells me that our ego is still 'in charge', only it's in charge by way of arrogance.

Your wife doesn't "owe" you her trust, no matter how many 'nice things' you do for her...no matter how many times you tell her you love her...no matter how often you call her and tell her you'll be 5 minutes late.

Think about how YOU would feel and how YOU would react if she did this to you. Don't just tell yourself that you'd be "upset". Try to visualize what you would do, how you would do it, what you would say and how you would say it. And then understand that you can expect NO MORE from your wife. If you would divorce her, then you can not blame your wife if she divorces you. If you would scream at her and call her names, then again...you can not expect any LESS from her.

I find it both ironic and pitiful that the WS THINKS about this stuff AFTER the they have already cheated (and not BEFORE, when it would might make a difference) PLUS, that they already KNOW how they would feel/react, yet they expect MORE from the BS.

Good luck.

Vega
Hi Vega, good points, well made.

I wish every day that I had never had the affair and had thought about the consequences properly. In all honesty I purposely kept from thinking about the cruelty of what i was doing - stupid stupid stupid.

Ego is completely under control now, struggle to find it at all. I have tried very hard to visualise what she is going through and force myself to consider how I would respond if the roles were reversed. I absolutely don't expect anything from her as i know she owes me nothing. I just don't know if i could do what she is doing or not, i suspect it is one of those situations you cannot 'simulate' in your mind. Only when it happens will you know how you will respond.

Appreciate your response to me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
If the OW tries to contact you again see a lawyer and have him send her a warning that any further attempt to make contact with you or yours will be met with a court order and a filing of stalking. Let your wife know that you are doing this.

otherwise I think Chris Ody, and Vega have it spot on.
Thanks WOM, Our MC suggested that legal action might be a response. When the AP texted me at New Year I replied to that effect. She replied i would be laughed out of court because of how i'd treated her. Told her that was irrelevant, that now i was with SG and wanted no further contact. Shared this with SG although she wasn't happy with some of my wording in the text. Had no contact since and my feeling is that the best way to respond to any future contact, should it come, is to ignore it totally and not respond. I think that when she contacts me she is looking for any response, even threats of legal action.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I didn't know about exposure when I caught him. TBH I wasn't capable of thinking of anything much for the first few months.... and I felt so humiliated that I really didn't want to do anything that would make me look anymore foolish than I already felt. The AP is single but is politically active (she was campaigning to become an MSP in the midst of the A) I now wish I had known about doing this .....he was her third AP, and apart from the obvious feeling that a little karma for her would be nice, I do think the public out to be able to count on the integrity of politicians.

Do I think I know it all? I know as much as I dug for - nothing was volunteered except little nuggets offered to pacify me when I found another damning piece of "evidence". I think I know everything I need to now, and I don't want to know about the sex - I've got the gist. During this time I wanted to believe him every time he told me I "really know it all this time" but I didn't give up digging. Now I'm done with that intensity of investigation and I'm clear .......ONE MORE LIE and I'm done.

I would like to attempt to R. I have a lot of doubts though ....
Although it's been nearly 10 months I've only finally known how long the EA/PA actually lasted for about 5 weeks. So I think we are just emerging from a pre-R stage.

We have made progress in some areas and I have seen a significant difference in his willingness to even talk at all, and now we have started working through HNHN which has been very enlightening and we have a lot of work to do. There have been days where it has been wonderful and many others that haven't.

We have 2 children 22 and 26 this year. They were devastated. They, along with me, and everyone else, thought he was special - the very last man that would do something like this. Seeing my big beautiful son cry was horrible.

I stayed because I love him .....and I didn't know the truth. It has been a slow painful journey to get here - I honestly don't know if I'd have been so willing to try if I had known what it would be like. I have to believe it has been worth something so I'm willing but wary.
I love you very much SG. xx
 
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