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This is probably a stupid question....but can the BS be in some kind of fog too?

My H is very remorseful and is adamant I now have the truth, he is doing every thing he can, passwords, full disclosure and transparency. He didn't have an affair but a a couple of ONS away with work.

He says it was too much drink and the opportunity for sex, which he wasn't getting much from me at that time. I do not take responsibility for that, he needed to make changes.

Anyhow, when you decide to R, how do you know you aren't in some kind of fog.....how do you know they aren't just spinning yarns, or even that they believe what they say themselves, 'I only love you!' 'it will never happen again'.

Ok, we have worked on some ground rules, and he does seem very genuine and keen to stay part of our marriage, but how does a BS trust the R to be true?

Just thought I would ask this.

Have any other BS been almost certain their WS had learned a lesson, given then a second chance to have it blown back in their face?

I'm kind of on guard, but kind of happy things are so good right now......but have this little niggle that a man who can cheat will ultimately do it again.
 

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Yes, there can be clouded thinking onthe BS' part.

Yes, the cheaters can totally pull the wool over the BS' eyes, only to betray them again.

Yes, it is not due to alcohol or lack of sex that he cheated, it was because he wanted to, and he is selfish enough to do it.

Yes cheaters lie, a good rule of thumb is to not believe anything they say. Their actions have to do the talking, for a long time, and with consistency.

How do you know if R is true? You only know if it is true for you. You cannot really know for your WS, because you don't know what they are thinking. You can only watch and listen, and evaluate for yourself what seems to be the case. So at some point you must trust, but don't be stupid. Do not trust blindly. Verify as much as you need to, by what ever means you need to.

It is not easy, but it can be worth it.
 

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Lots of people decide to R and then have it blow up in their face. There's many on here.

Your WS has to do certain things and keep doing them for months and years in order to help you through this. You won't ever get over it completely - it's part of who you are now. And he will always be a guy who cheated on his wife. But it's quite possible to move on and become better together too.

You have to decide what's best for yourself.

Look up the 180.
 

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I decided to R and it hasn't blown up ion my face so far. I however am on and off with confidence that it wont. R is very difficult in most cases but it's up to you to try ,if you think it's worth it. I had very clouded judgment when I made my decision but I do Not regret it.
 

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Most definitely. BS fog can be even greater than wayward fog.

A man whose wife has gone on a two week sex vacation with OM is still thinking "I have to save my marriage!" when its clearly already gone.

many BSs think they can salvage everything, when in truth, it isn't up to them.

BS fog is most likely the biggest cause of false reconciliation.
 

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Have any other BS been almost certain their WS had learned a lesson, given then a second chance to have it blown back in their face?
Yes, it took me four DDays to wise up. You can call it fog, codependency or being a blithering idiot. I put the "chump" in Chump Lady.

A couple pointers:

1) You see the world through your moral lens. You need to realize your husband has his own lens, and you probably don't see things the same way. YOU wouldn't say things you don't mean. YOU most likely wouldn't cheat. He very well could be saying things he doesn't mean, and clearly he has the ability to cheat - not just once, either.

2) Cake. It took me forever to figure this out. The Unified Theory of Cake
Cake is the preferred lifestyle for many cheaters. All the comforts of home life, all the fun of illicit sex and deceit. They want BOTH. They are not going to cop to that, but that is what their ACTIONS say. The fact that your husband has had more than one cheating episode (and that's what you know about, it's usually worse than you know about) -- tells me he enjoys cake. Upping his game with you is a way for him to keep cake.

How can this be? Refer to pointer #1.

Fact is, you don't know if he'll cheat again. You have to make the investment. IMO, it's a bad investment. But you have to get there on your own. Living like the marriage police is no way to live, and in my experience, they up their game for awhile, but cannot sustain it.
 

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...Yes, it is not due to alcohol or lack of sex that he cheated, it was because he wanted to, and he is selfish enough to do it...
Yes and no.

Alcohol will lower his "guard" and those low inhibitions will make it easier for him to take it from thoughts and lust... to actually go through with it. Peer pressure can do that too ("my single coworkers are doing it, and I should also"). As a guy who is successful and gets a fair amount of attention, I can tell you I see guys - and women - make those mistakes pretty damn often. In past relationships, I almost fell into the "I just wanna have some fun with my old friend/coworkers, and I can handle it" trap numerous times.

There's two basic schools of thought:
-once a cheater, always a cheater
-understand it, work through it, set some boundaries, have buy in from both partners, and you can achieve a repaired/stronger relationship
...which school is correct? I tend to subscribe to the former theory.

...they up their game for awhile, but cannot sustain it.
ding ding ding^
You can continue to learn for a lifetime, but people's system of morals and boundaries is 99% done developing by adulthood. Ever notice how many "recovered" or "born again" people tend to fall off the wagon again and again? They're trying to fight their basic instincts, their values, and defy their personal logic/integrity. Old habits die hard... but in actality, they usually just get supressed.

...In the end, it's fairly simple: If you want to be married and faithful, you set boundaries and stick to them. That will be different for everyone, but obvious places to start are avoiding going out with single friends/coworkers who will be looking to hook up. Avoiding alcohol when you're in social situations without your spouse is also a good idea. Socializing with former lovers is out of the question. Some people get that; a LOT of people don't.
 

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This is probably a stupid question....but can the BS be in some kind of fog too?

My H is very remorseful and is adamant I now have the truth, he is doing every thing he can, passwords, full disclosure and transparency. He didn't have an affair but a a couple of ONS away with work.

He says it was too much drink and the opportunity for sex, which he wasn't getting much from me at that time. I do not take responsibility for that, he needed to make changes.

Anyhow, when you decide to R, how do you know you aren't in some kind of fog.....how do you know they aren't just spinning yarns, or even that they believe what they say themselves, 'I only love you!' 'it will never happen again'.

Ok, we have worked on some ground rules, and he does seem very genuine and keen to stay part of our marriage, but how does a BS trust the R to be true?

Just thought I would ask this.

I'm kind of on guard, but kind of happy things are so good right now......but have this little niggle that a man who can cheat will ultimately do it again.

This is difficult. For that 'fog' you speak of is really just 'love' - you love them unconditionally and are even prepared to take the blame as they gaslight and deceive you. Then you surprise yourself and you find you love them even more than you thought, enough to give them a second ( third etc chances) chance.

Trouble is in my experience you are most vulnerable to a serial cheater when you have just finished dealing with a blown up affair because they now think - 'having done this and here I am on my knees to you the last you are going to suspect is that I'l do it again RIGHT NOW under your nose' - and guess what - they fking do !! because it IS right under your nose and you cant see it and they 're right you'd never suspect anybody could have the balls to get right on with it again

They rely on your 'fog' to keep it all going

Have any other BS been almost certain their WS had learned a lesson, given then a second chance to have it blown back in their face?
Oh yes 4/5 chances - it got worse and more brazen each time even though with me the marriage was as she often put it "mostly fantastic"
 

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Yes, definitely a BS fog.

Only time removes the fog. You Will know given time if what he is doing is genuine and not just a knee jerk reaction. And you will know if there are huge holes, or small holes, in his story and explanations. These holes generally (always) mean deception. Lies.
 
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