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My wife and i have been married for 21 years, 3 kids (15,12,9 yrs old). I'm 46, my wife is 45. Both in good health. My wife has been legally blind since 2008. We are both very devoted to each other and have a normal marriage. My wife has had some female issues (bleeding), and had a partial hysterectomy in Nov 2015.

Our sex life has been never been great, but what i would call good. 1x week with occasionally 2x a week. We normally both reach orgasm and I have always tried to make sure she enjoyed it. 5 or 6 years ago I told her i wanted to improve that aspect of our marriage. I just wanted more passion and trying new things to see what we would like/not like. We tried basic toys, positions, but every time I tried to get my wife to tell me what she did/didn't like she would not be very responsive and evasive. I've been working on improving things for many years to say the least. My wife was raised to be very private about sex, and has never opened up to me about sex.

I've also noticed over the years that occasionally she wasn't always into making love. She was just distracted. She had a stressful job, and 3 kids, so no surprise there. I did try to refocus her on me by whispering and talking to her and that always seemed to help. She then would get into it and the sex would be good. We talked about her not always being focus and she agreed that was an issue so we were both aware. I would tell her to focus and she would then start to get into sex enjoy it much more. She rarely initiates, and that was an issue for me with her. Its never gotten better, but I kinda just gave up on that note.

Over these last 3 years, our frequency increased from 1x to 2x. At this point, my wife only rarely doesn't have an O during sex. For the last 2 years, my wife and i have been having friends over for drinks and laughs on Friday night. Some times we would go to their house (Next door, kids in tow). Nothing sexual just a good time and drinks. We would both be at least tipsy if not intoxicated. We would come home and proceed to make passionate love to each other. Over the last year, with the bleeding, it was at times messy, but we both enjoyed each other.

Over all of these years of trying to improve our sex life, I've always told her that I didn't feel I would ever be that man for her. She just could never let go with me. She always seems to be holding back. With seeing her on those recent Friday nights, I knew there was more in her, but sober, I was never going to turn her on so she would let go. I told her that she needed to find someone else to let go with. She was always holding back with me. She always said that was never going to happen as I was the only man for her. She's never had a second orgasm with me at any point. She didn't seem to think it was possible.

For our 20th anniversary, we sent the kids to my father's in Denver for a week. We went to Key West. We stayed with a coworker i've known for several years for 2 days, and then went to a bed and breakfast. At the BNB, we went out carousing in KW, and came home both liquored up. Needless to say, my wife attacked me when we got back to the room, and it was some the best sex we'd ever had.

Fast forward to this past January, after the partial, the 6 week long desert trek of no sex caused us to focus more on other types of sex. I've always been more than willing to go down on her, massage her, and kiss her all over. She's never been particularly good at bjs, but she did lingam for the first time. After the 6 weeks was over (early January), we started having sex much more frequently, 3-4x/week. I got her to agree to buy some soft videos (Hegre), to help spice things up. Nothing hard core. I also bought her luna balls to assist with kegels and her incontinence.

At one point, we went 6 days straight. Each night was a little different, but we were both into it and both enjoyed it with successful Os. One night, she had 2 orgasms. >>She told me one night that I knew all there was about her. The 7th day was Friday and our daughter had volleyball relatively early the next day. Well, we had friends over, but were going to make it an early night. I got off of work and immediately went in and said something dirty to her and she immediately shut me down saying we had to get up early. Yet, a few days before we talked about sex on Friday night, so i was very much looking forward to it. When our friends were there, she was having a good time,but I admit I was pissed. My wife is very beautiful, and I wanted to enjoy her that night. Needless to say, after our friends left I confronted her about an unrelated topic, and things blew up a bit. The next morning I basically confessed that my confrontation to her was about not having sex. She said that we should have had, cause she wanted it too after we got to bed.

Fast forward to this week. Friday, we both took the day off, and had an 'us' day. I gave her a luxurious massage, she gave me one, and things went from there the rest of the afternoon until the kids got home. I mentioned to her earlier in the month that we probably needed to put new batteries in the ancient vibrator we have. She made an offhand comment that the batteries in it were good. At the time I pondered how she knew that. Saturday, we enjoyed each other multiple times throughout the day (locked doors are a wonderful thing). Saturday night, she had a little too much wine, and we started passionately kissing when our daughter walked in from being out. We took it upstairs and had sex. During sex, we talked a bit, and out of the blue, I asked her if she masturbated. I honestly didn't know but suspected she might. I've nothing against it. I've not done it in a few years, but I've no hangups about it. Surprisingly, she said yes she does. How often? Once a week or so. She almost looked scared to tell me. I asked her how long had she been doing it, and she said for the last 5-7 years. She seemed genuinely ashamed. I told her it was no big deal but I was still a bit shocked. We made love again a second time but I wasn't that into it so we stopped.

The next morning I woke up early. Still a bit bothered by her not telling me over these years, as I had point blank asked her about it previously on multiple occasions. As to the act, she had said she only thinks about me when she does it, which I thought was a good thing. Needless to say, I woke her up a bit early and told her I wanted her to show me. She said she didn't want to, so i started in with the vibrator on her. It wasn't long and she was into it. She started touching herself, which is something I've only seen her do 1 other time with me. Finally, i told her to take over. She hesitated at first, but then finally took over and finished. I could tell it was definitely intense for her.

We started talking about her masturbating. She seemed very defensive about it. She said it was her time, and I didn't disagree. I asked her how many times she's done it this year. Answer: None. I didn't need to. I was like what? She said with us having sex more she didn't need to do it. For me it was a red flag.

On our way to church, I asked her if she was satisfied after the morning events and if she wanted something in the afternoon. She said she was satisfied and didn't need anything later. To which I replied, ok, so you get your rocks off and deny us the satisfaction of having sex together. She didn't know what to say. She said she didn't consider her masturbation a problem,and didn't put it into the same category as the sex we have. She said she's always been satisfied with me, and us. I then asked her again, did she masturbate in January. She said no. I then asked, so if our intercourse frequency increase caused you to not need to masturbate, how can you say our lovemaking and your masturbation aren't connected? If they were separate, then you would have not stopped masturbating. She said she didn't consider them the same thing. I told her they may not be the same thing but to deny the connection doesn't hold water from the actions. Church was very long for sure.

On our way home, no communication at all. We get home, and she immediately confronts me. Are you going to leave me? No, that's not going to happen. I layout that all these years, I've been trying to improve communication about sex to no avail. I've always asked her what she likes/dislikes, wanted to try new things, yet I was shot down many times with 'I don't know'. There was always a wall i couldn't penetrate. I asked her why she didn't come to me years ago to talk about this, and she was afraid because women didn't ask for more sex. I was like seriously? WTF have I been trying to do for the last 5 years???? I told her that her stopping masturbating after our increase in frequency was a total betrayal to me. 5 years, i'd been trying to improve things. She said she wanted to have more sex but didn't know how to tell me. WTF? Really? 20 years of marriage? I then tell her it was obvious her masturbation was more important to her than improving our sex life having discovered that only after our increase in frequency caused her masturbation to stop.

I know and understand the role of masturbation to one's self. I have no problem with her doing it and I expected her to do it at least once in a while.

Maybe I shouldn't feel this way, but knowing her masturbation stopped was a bit much for me to take. Had it continued then there would have been no connection to our intimacy and her masturbation, but its obvious the opposite was true based on her actions and events. For this reason, I feel the last 5 years was a total waste of my time and effort. I asked here where do I get those five years of my life back? I asked her about all of the effort I put into this, and her preferring to keep soloing away instead of working on us. I also asked about her comment the week before that there was nothing more to know about her sexually. Obviously, it was a lie. NOW, she says I know everything.

I love my wife dearly, and will do anything for her, but I can't help feeling a bit betrayed by her. Knowing that she says she wants to always make things better between us, yet seeing the exact opposite is true is hard to take. Am I crazy for feeling this way?
 

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Well, she did want to have sex. With her vibrator. It doesn't create the same kind of pressure or stress. It's just there.

When all you have is drunken sex, I find it sad that she has to be inebriated to be expressive. Don't you?

I think you'll find sympathetic posters here with more experience on this subject, but when it's the man engaged in porn we often say that the physical (and to lesser extent, emotional) investment is too little for his wife. In this case I tend to feel that her spent emotional energy leaves little for you and the lack of physical is due to the exhausted emotional (mental) state.

Her hangups are going to be your biggest hurdle, because as long as she has them, you will never have access to the real her inside. She is too ashamed.

Perhaps you should both visit a sex therapist. Or, she could start with one until she is more comfortable talking about and expressing her sexuality.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and expecting a different result. I doubt you needed this revelation of hers to confirm that 5 years of the same thing wasn't working. I do sympathize with your frustration but you have very little control in this territory. It's all on her. You can only learn to be supportive so she trusts and is comfortable with you.
 

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First, the alcohol. No problems with that, IMO, as it doesn't sound like she NEEDS it to have sex with you. More that a fun night out relaxes her and allows her to come down from the week's events. I honestly think the alcohol is a red herring, and it's more that the two of you are able to have a good time with friends and be adults, rather than 24/7 parents.

Second, the masturbation. Don't sweat it. Just because you've said you're always available doesn't mean she'll come running every time she's in the mood for an orgasm. Masturbation and sex are two entirely different things. If she wants to be intimate with you, she'll be intimate with you. If she's horny and wants release, she'll masturbate OR she'll come to you. Depends on her mood, depends on her needs at that particular time, depends on what kind of orgasm she wants to have, depends on a lot of things. Not one of them actually having much, if anything, to do with you, personally.

Now, I get why you're upset - you have no issue with her masturbating, however you feel that that stretch of time where she was doing it, she could have/should have come to you for sex, instead. Now that you're having more frequent sex, she's not masturbating. Uh, that's a good thing! But I DO get it.

What you're not getting is that she's still learning. Her sex drive seems to be increasing (yay!) but her communication skills are still somewhat lacking.

Now, IMO, you're doing the worst thing possible at this particular point in time by questioning her about all of this, and expressing at least some level of discontent with how things are going. Whether you intend to or not, she likely feels guilty about her masturbation escapades, where in reality, she should be feeling quite good about it - especially from you. She's still learning how to express herself sexually, and that's a great thing. Just run with it.

My wife had never really masturbated until she was in her early 30's. Some small experimentation here and there, but she's one of those women who just don't (more common than one would think). She's also low desire. Well, she went to a friend's sex toy party and came home with something, on a whim. She never owned a sex toy/vibrator before, so it was all new for her. The next 3 or 4 months she went to town. It didn't actually affect our sex life (no more or less sex, that is), but she thoroughly enjoyed the hell out of that thing for that time period. Between the vibrator and sex with me, she probably had almost daily orgasms for those 3 or 4 months. Then stopped almost suddenly. Novelty wore off, I guess? I don't know. Nowadays, it comes out very rarely, and seemingly only for use when with me. I would say the last time it was used by her only, was a couple of years ago. I could be wrong, but she never hid it or, or felt the need to hide it before. She was never embarrassed by her usage of it, including during that few months stretch of novelty.

But I get it. You want more sex with her, and you want HER to be more open and initiate, and want YOU. For a stretch of time there, you felt she was going to the vibrator instead of you. It made you feel that she was horny, wanted sex, but couldn't bring herself to initiate with you, even though you've always made it abundantly clear that you're always ready.

Part of it may have been that, for sure, but part of it may have been that she simply wanted to masturbate, and that it had nothing at all to do with you, in any way, shape or form. You said you haven't masturbated in quite some time, and that's fine. But she's not you. One doesn't have to 'save' themselves for their partners. Not everybody correlates masturbation with sex. Sure, it's sexUAL, but it's not the same. It's really apples and oranges. Most people want a nice juicy steak for dinner, but sometimes you're perfectly happy with a bowl of cereal, too.

But bottom line, I think you're projecting your attitudes towards sex and masturbation on to your wife. You're under the impression that if she's horny, she should communicate that to you. I understand that you actually have no problem with masturbation, per se, but at the same time, you're insinuating that she should really only do it when you're not available, am I right? That you should have the right of first refusal, in other words.
 
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OP, I think you made a big mistake responding that way. You said it yourself that her upbringing is the reason for her secrecy. You want her to be more open with you yet look at the way you responded when she finally confessed. By you getting upset you've just showed her, hey when you open up to me about sex, this is what happens. Do you really think she's going to want to come to you with her private thoughts in the future. She's been hiding the masturbation for so long and now you've made her feel even worse about it. Instead of looking to the future and seeing how you could turn this situation into a road to improvement for your sex life, you focused on all the crap from the past. You missed out on sex before because of her masturbation, yes fine but now she's shared some insightful information that you can use to avoid that continuing in the future. Don't punish her for that. She was not trying to be deceitful, her upbringing has done a number on her. Cut her some slack.

I think you should go to her and apologize for getting so upset. Explain to her that she doesn't need to be embarrassed about masturbating and wanting more sex. That you're excited that she's revealed this to you because you'd like to increase the frequency of your lovemaking too. You realize her upbringing has lead to these erroneous thoughts about sex and you regret that has prevented her from opening up about her masturbation and sex in general in the past. That if she doesn't necessarily want sex you'd love to watch her/help her reach orgasm with her toy...
 

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Your wife has just gotten to the point that she is able to talk to you more about sex and open up to you. She is also at a point where she is embracing her own sexuality more. And you are going to shut it down because of...????

A good thing is about to be ruined by your anger. Are you sure this is the road you want to stay on???
 

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I love my wife dearly, and will do anything for her, but I can't help feeling a bit betrayed by her. Knowing that she says she wants to always make things better between us, yet seeing the exact opposite is true is hard to take. Am I crazy for feeling this way?
Irreconcilable views on masturbation should NEVER be pointed out as a problem and blamed for your frustrations. Instead you will need to learn to accept each other's views and find ways to be aware and mindful of each other to make sure you both feel respected and loved.

If you have already chosen this topic as something to argue about, odds are you will spend five more years trying to recover from this if not more!

Badsanta
 

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@Satya Thanks for the reply.
@alexm I'm not sorry she did in fact masturbate. Knowing her background, I don't think was comfortable doing it all at first. I do wonder if her doing it all these years has helped her get to where she was at today. I think she's learned how to touch herself to satisfaction, and I certainly appreciate that. However, I do feel that her continued masturbation allowed the wall to stay intact because she was being satisfied via other means. Not having that outlet might have changed the equation 5 years ago. I always felt that there was something between us that prevented her from letting go booze/no booze, and I told her so. The alcohol simply showed me in full context what i/we were missing. (I don't think it was the adult conversation was the trigger because other nights with just us, with the alcohol lubrication, the results were the same good fun) I also agree that she is still learning. NOTE: I spoke to a friend of mine (PHD in family counseling) early on in our marriage about this topic. He recommended to me counseling at the time, but it didn't happen.

In the end, yes, i'd like to be the one satisfying her first. I know there are times when she will masturbate and that's fine. My issue has been that she has told me that she feels the same way about wanting to come to me first. However, she said she was scared to tell me. The lack of masturbation in January seems to prove her desires out. She's told me that she'd rather have more sex than masturbate, sooo why didn't she tell me this 5 years ago... ??? Grrr

I'm sure I'm making more out of this than is necessary. I was just flabbergasted at finding all of this out. Her telling me that i knew 'everything' only to find out a week later about her soloing also bothered me.

The last few weeks have been awesome between the 2 of us. I just regret that this might have happened years ago. She also seems to understand my perspective of she should have come to me years ago about this. The fact that i was trying to talk to her about this exact topic years ago only makes it worse.

I've got to say that writing the long post was therapeutic. I discovered this site a few months ago, and have found it very helpful.
 

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And before everyone goes crazy with my comment about her fear of telling me. She said that she was brought up that women didn't ask for more sex. She was afraid of what I would think of her. I tried to reassure her that we are married. We are allowed to have sex as much or as little as we want because its just between us. I have always let her know that i've wanted to satisfy her in all aspects of her life. I've always tried to make sure she has everything she wants. She's had issues with showing affection, even to our children, and always has. I know it all stems from her pedigree (stoic German) and upbringing. Her mother was 41 when she was born. One of the reasons we got together in the first place was the fact that I always showed her respect and affection. I still do.

Her vision is also a big source of her insecurity in general. She's considered statutorily blind by SSA (20/200) and is on disability. As she has RP, she may eventually go completely blind. I know that weighs on her daily. To me her vision or lack thereof is of no consequence. I have always told her that its the quality of life that matters. She's going through training right now for blindness/low vision, and that has been rough on her as well.
 

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@doverfun honestly, I don't think the masturbation had much impact on your sex life (frequency). The orgasm experience for women doesn't quite work the way it does for men. A man who masturbates to orgasm likely will not be able to or be as interested in sex on the same day but in my experience this is different in women.

I could masturbate multiple times a day and I will still be just as horny for my partner when he gets home. So although I will be more satisfied masturbating in the absence of sex, it will have little impact on my sex drive. So in as much as I will be much less inclined to masturbate if I'm having plenty sex, it does not mean that masturbating will impact my interest/ability to have sex.

So this betrayal thing may be applied to a man who masturbates and as a result is less inclined to have sex but I'm not so sure this applies to women. You're looking at this from a man's perspective. Her masturbating was not the reason you were having less sex however, you having more sex can definitely be attributed to her masturbating less.
 

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We are allowed to have sex as much or as little as we want because its just between us. I have always let her know that i've wanted to satisfy her in all aspects of her life. I've always tried to make sure she has everything she wants.
What if she seeks her sexual validation solely by pleasing you and she has no desire for you to pleasure her? Do you get frustrated that she should at least try to enjoy herself, and perhaps refuse to allow her to please you until it can be a mutual experience?

What I am getting at is that one-sided experiences are a critical part of many marriages. Since you are eager to please, you would likely be more than happy to focus your efforts on her even if you were not in the mood to begin with, and you would want her to enjoy that experience to the fullest. BUT do you allow her to do the same for you, or do you perhaps reject it thinking she is not really in the mood?
 

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@Keke24

I'm trying to find the logic of this statement....

>> Her masturbating was not the reason you were having less sex however, you having more sex can definitely be attributed to her masturbating less.

Again, not seeing the logic... you are less inclined to masturbate if you are having plenty of sex.. so sex can and does affect your masturbation frequency, but the flip of masturbating frequency doesn't affect sex frequency? Really? So more sex = less M, but more M does not equal less sex.

>>So in as much as I will be much less inclined to masturbate if I'm having plenty sex, it does not mean that masturbating will impact my interest/ability to have sex.
 

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From what I got from your post was that sex HAD improved between you guys. I'm sorry that it usually had to include alcohol, but I also get it because I'm in the same boat, and enjoy sex a little more with some wine in my system. I thought you guys had decent communication when it comes to sex? Maybe I missed something though. There's also nothing wrong with masturbation, but there is something wrong to force your significant other to masturbate for you. For me, I don't enjoy sex with my H, so masturbation helps relieve my sexual frustration. I also view it as something that is just for me, and if H forced me to do it in front of him, it would take away the enjoyment, and make me incredibly uncomfortable. I also wouldn't have a way to relieve my sexual tension, and would probably fly off the handle. So, yeah, they're connected: sex and masturbation. If both people in a relationship are sexually satisfied, there's less need for self love, but that's not the case when 2 people are not satisfied. Masturbation is by no means a betrayal though.
 

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You're looking at this from a man's perspective. Her masturbating was not the reason you were having less sex...
AGREED!

While females do have a "resolution phase" after sex, they do NOT have the "refractory period" that men experience.

After a male experiences orgasm, prolactin is released in his body to counteract testosterone. This is what causes the penis to quickly loose erection after climax and also extinguishes desire for further sexual activity for a period of time. Even if a male manages to binge on sex for a day or two, this effect will be increased after the final climax and may last days while semen production recovers and new sperm motility matures.

Meanwhile once the female is sexually receptive in her cycle, she does not eject her eggs onto the ceiling during each climax or anything of that nature, she simply remains receptive until she feels loved and satisfied. Or until stress shuts off her sexual desire.
 

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@Keke24

I'm trying to find the logic of this statement....

>> Her masturbating was not the reason you were having less sex however, you having more sex can definitely be attributed to her masturbating less.

Again, not seeing the logic... you are less inclined to masturbate if you are having plenty of sex.. so sex can and does affect your masturbation frequency, but the flip of masturbating frequency doesn't affect sex frequency? Really? So more sex = less M, but more M does not equal less sex.
Precisely OP. I wish some more women would chime in here.

It may be difficult to understand because it is very different for men. A woman can have multiple orgasms during sex and keep going at it with little impact on her energy levels but this is not the case for men. Similarly I can masturbate multiple times a day and it will have zero impact on my interest in sex with my partner. My clit will hurt sure but a part from that, there's little aftereffect to suggest I've already been sexually satisfied. Orgasming just does not have the same impact on a female as it does on the male. We'll probably experience the same euphoria and exhaustion in the moment but my recovery time as a woman is significantly lower than for a man.

Does that make sense?
 

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@badsanta I've never rejected any of her advances to please me. I will suggest her pleasing me directly, but if she says no, then i don't worry about it. I know there are certain things she doesn't like to do and I don't dwell on those things. Those certain things she doesn't like to do but she will do when I ask, but i ask infrequently knowing she doesn't like it.

Part of all of me wanting to improve our sex life is the fact that the kids are getting to the point of being out of the house. My daughter has less than 4 years, but she will start to really lead her own life. My youngest is still 8 years away, but in the grand scheme of things, that's not all that long and will go fast. My goal is two fold. I don't want her and I to look at each other when the kids are grown and decide we don't want to do this any more. I want to strengthen our bond now not later. I've seen too many friends parents part the minute the kids were grown. Additionally, I'm sure it may sound odd, but I want us to be lovers. Yes, i'm the husband and father, and we have sex like a husband does, but I want to move beyond that. I want to move to another level of intimacy with her. I want her to be able to cut loose in the bedroom with me. I want to know her as intimately as she knows herself. I want to pleasure her in ways she didn't even know she liked. I want her to be able to give herself up to her lover so to speak. (probably a tangent, but its related to what i've been working on for years, and is the reason behind the original post).
 

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@badsanta I've never rejected any of her advances to please me. I will suggest her pleasing me directly, but if she says no, then i don't worry about it. I know there are certain things she doesn't like to do and I don't dwell on those things. Those certain things she doesn't like to do but she will do when I ask, but i ask infrequently knowing she doesn't like it.

Part of all of me wanting to improve our sex life is the fact that the kids are getting to the point of being out of the house. My daughter has less than 4 years, but she will start to really lead her own life. My youngest is still 8 years away, but in the grand scheme of things, that's not all that long and will go fast. My goal is two fold. I don't want her and I to look at each other when the kids are grown and decide we don't want to do this any more. I want to strengthen our bond now not later. I've seen too many friends parents part the minute the kids were grown. Additionally, I'm sure it may sound odd, but I want us to be lovers. Yes, i'm the husband and father, and we have sex like a husband does, but I want to move beyond that. I want to move to another level of intimacy with her. I want her to be able to cut loose in the bedroom with me. I want to know her as intimately as she knows herself. I want to pleasure her in ways she didn't even know she liked. I want her to be able to give herself up to her lover so to speak. (probably a tangent, but its related to what i've been working on for years, and is the reason behind the original post).
Have you TOLD her any of this? Have you TOLD her what *your* "goal" is?

And, if so, is she agreeable to that "goal" of yours?
 

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@badsanta I've never rejected any of her advances to please me. I will suggest her pleasing me directly, but if she says no, then i don't worry about it. I know there are certain things she doesn't like to do and I don't dwell on those things. Those certain things she doesn't like to do but she will do when I ask, but i ask infrequently knowing she doesn't like it.

If you suggest her pleasing you, she may say no, but if you ask then she will do it. You do realize that makes no sense!

OK, I assuming you meant perhaps she does not like giving you BJ's during foreplay when she initiates sex as she wants you inside her and not in her mouth. But she is willing to give you BJs during moments she does not want sex. Meanwhile you reject her by hesitating to ask and not allowing her to please you during those moments. Do you go and masturbate instead? (I admit that is a loaded question and not meant to attack you, but instead meant to help you reflect on how there are moments where she may indeed enjoy giving you a BJ, but your self consciousness is not allowing you to ask!)
 
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