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Quick question for you Personal...

Would you be as happy if she didn't do any of the risqué sexual things you all do? Like if she was just vanilla, missionary, would you still be as happy or would you even still be married to her? You don't have to answer, I'm just curious.
I can't wait for his answer, although I think I already know what it is...!!
 

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Sure love can grow. If often does. It’s just seldom messaged in the way the other partner wants to receive it. Without getting trapped into any generalizations, a woman might receive “love” as cuddling, holding hands, receiving flowers, etc. A man might want to receive “love” by initiating sex, being present during sex, wearing sexing clothes for him, etc. Seldom do these roads intersect as the relationship goes on.
Hmmm, or is the disconnect inherent in some men thinking that sharing sex is sharing love. Versus sharing good sex generates more sex, which affords a greater sharing of pleasurable experiences, which then helps ones connection and love?

At the end of the day if someone thinks that they can get and maintain a connection via sharing pleasurable experiences and confronting challenges together, they are on the right track. So if someone thinks that sex is a thing in itself, they have a better chance at sustaining a richer ongoing sex life. Whereas if someone thinks that sex is a consequence of the connection, they are more likely to find that sex dwindle. Since if sex is a consequence, then one doesn't necessarily need sex to have love.

Whereas if one thinks of sex as just being sex, they have a better shot of having a richer sex life, since sex then becomes a vehicle for connection that is desired because of the pleasure that sex itself can brings. So the sharing of the pleasure of sex is what sustains the desire for sex which helps to sustain a shared connection and love.

I've found with all of the women that I have been with, the way into their knickers and staying there was always never inherent upon my cuddling them, holding, hands and giving them flowers. The way to into their knickers and to more sex and more varied sex with them, has always been through being overtly sexual and lustful with them. When a woman says "you only want me for sex", I have always agreed with them and said "yes". Of which it isn't actually true to say "only", yet by my actions it is obvious that I want so much more.

Yet acknowledging my desire, not tiptoeing around it and not being afraid to say "I lust for their sex deeply". All helps to generate sexual feelings, by letting a woman know she is desired carnally in ways that are so extremely naughty.

Many men are often mistaken when they believe that coming at sex indirectly, by emphasising and trying to convince their mates that it isn't all about sex. Hoping that they will convince their mates to share sex with them by trying to distract them, and saying it's about love and not sex. They end up getting exactly what they generate, a level of disconnect, a demonstration of less desire and a mindset that sex isn't that important in their sexual relationships.

I worked this out as a teenager, if I was timid and apologetic of my desires, and patient, fawning and the like, I got nowhere fast. Yet every time, I was bold, forward and risqué with my desires, while being impatient and understanding that the girls wanted it as much as me. It was so easy to have them, want me to have my way with them. So I've just carried it through to now, knowing that if the sex is good a woman wants it just as much as a man if not more so.

Plus it's worth noting that my wife was a virgin until she was in her 25th year, and she has Catholic upbringing hangups as well. Yet I know if I walk up to her randomly and briefly run my teeth down her neck. Then whisper into her ear "later on I am going to ****** you till you're bow-legged", I know she's going to be thinking about having sex and it's going to excite her. Then when I do avail myself of her, she is already wanting it and more. The thing is though this kind of thing just works with everyone I have been with. That said if someone has seen years of not being like that with a partner and they do this out of the blue, I don't think it will work easily or at all, because one is not likely to be credulous in suddenly being that way.

Also on hand holding and the like, I date women I am with I talk to them because connecting with their mind maintains our connection. I've never presumed flowers are what to give a woman unless it is what they would like (yet flowers don't generate sex) and I don't buy my wife flowers at all.

I get more sex by being more sexual, I get more hand holding, by doing more hand holding, If I want more flowers I will give more flowers. I know my sexual partners more deeply, because I have always spent more time just talking to them.
 

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I can't wait for his answer, although I think I already know what it is...!!
Que potential disappointment...

Quick question for you Personal...

Would you be as happy if she didn't do any of the risqué sexual things you all do? Like if she was just vanilla, missionary, would you still be as happy or would you even still be married to her? You don't have to answer, I'm just curious.
No I wouldn't be happy, yet I wouldn't have married her in the first place if it wasn't apparent that she was keen and happy to be doing a parade of wanton things with me. Since we wouldn't have been a good match to begin with.

Yet this isn't all about what I get out of it either, since I bring a great deal of pleasure through what I do and how I do it as well. Plus we could be doing different wanton things instead (which could make it okay), so it isn't just about what individual acts are shared or how they are shared.

It is also worth mentioning that vanilla missionary sex, is a standout amazingly wonderful way of having sex. Because it is incredibly intimate in that one can share kissing their partners mouth with wanton lust, through and beyond orgasm. Missionary also affords one of the best ways to bring a woman to orgasm via penis in vagina sex without any other aids. One can talk, smile and one can see their partners eyes and expressions. Missionary also affords easy access to nibble and bite a woman's nipples as she approaches orgasm. Likewise it allows easy access to a woman's neck and her ears. As it also allows a woman to access a mans chest, neck and ears. Plus missionary also affords easy access to put a digit or two up a woman's backside from beneath her bum while having sex with her. So missionary is awesome and is often the best sex to share with someone and I enjoy lots of it.

One of the splendid wows of missionary, is when kissing a woman while thrusting in and out. At the time when you have have the right cadence and angle, there is that moment of distinct change in the way that they kiss you. When it suddenly becomes more carnal, and it is like they are suddenly a wild very base and lustful animal. Whose kissing becomes so lusciously delicious and wanting. While their grip on you inside their vagina changes as they match your thrusts leading to their orgasm and the pleasure of their mouth and nether regions and everything else when they tip over to orgasm, which leads to that almost interminable pulsing and throbbing from them that ensues around ones penis through their lengthy orgasm.

That said this not being happy is all hypothetical. Since I have never been with any woman in an ongoing sexual relationship who wasn't always keen for lots of wanton debauchery.

I kid you not I was that 12 year old in 6th grade Primary School, who already had a girlfriend and had kissed girls plenty and had shared seeing and touching their rude bits. Then I was that guy at 15, who was snogging and often finger banging his 15 year old girlfriend. Then frequently having sex with his 16 year old High School girlfriend, at lunchtime while doing the wildest and sometimes very risky things sexually with her. All of this just came naturally and easily (so in that respect I'm lucky). The first time I had sex all the way, it felt like finally coming to my real home for the first time. Then after that I kind of just carried on expecting a rich sex life with women (because that's just how it works), and have had exactly that ever after.

If I had different experiences, no doubt I would have a different perspective. Yet in my experience with women, they love sex and want plenty of it.

Maybe possessing a certain je ne sais quoi, makes a big difference?
 

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Hmmm, or is the disconnect inherent in some men thinking that sharing sex is sharing love. Versus sharing good sex generates more sex, which affords a greater sharing of pleasurable experiences, which then helps ones connection and love?

At the end of the day if someone thinks that they can get and maintain a connection via sharing pleasurable experiences and confronting challenges together, they are on the right track. So if someone thinks that sex is a thing in itself, they have a better chance at sustaining a richer ongoing sex life. Whereas if someone thinks that sex is a consequence of the connection, they are more likely to find that sex dwindle. Since if sex is a consequence, then one doesn't necessarily need sex to have love.

Whereas if one thinks of sex as just being sex, they have a better shot of having a richer sex life, since sex then becomes a vehicle for connection that is desired because of the pleasure that sex itself can brings. So the sharing of the pleasure of sex is what sustains the desire for sex which helps to sustain a shared connection and love.

I've found with all of the women that I have been with, the way into their knickers and staying there was always never inherent upon my cuddling them, holding, hands and giving them flowers. The way to into their knickers and to more sex and more varied sex with them, has always been through being overtly sexual and lustful with them. When a woman says "you only want me for sex", I have always agreed with them and said "yes". Of which it isn't actually true to say "only", yet by my actions it is obvious that I want so much more.

Yet acknowledging my desire, not tiptoeing around it and not being afraid to say "I lust for their sex deeply". All helps to generate sexual feelings, by letting a woman know she is desired carnally in ways that are so extremely naughty.

Many men are often mistaken when they believe that coming at sex indirectly, by emphasising and trying to convince their mates that it isn't all about sex. Hoping that they will convince their mates to share sex with them by trying to distract them, and saying it's about love and not sex. They end up getting exactly what they generate, a level of disconnect, a demonstration of less desire and a mindset that sex isn't that important in their sexual relationships.

I worked this out as a teenager, if I was timid and apologetic of my desires, and patient, fawning and the like, I got nowhere fast. Yet every time, I was bold, forward and risqué with my desires, while being impatient and understanding that the girls wanted it as much as me. It was so easy to have them, want me to have my way with them. So I've just carried it through to now, knowing that if the sex is good a woman wants it just as much as a man if not more so.

Plus it's worth noting that my wife was a virgin until she was in her 25th year, and she has Catholic upbringing hangups as well. Yet I know if I walk up to her randomly and briefly run my teeth down her neck. Then whisper into her ear "later on I am going to ** you till you're bow-legged", I know she's going to be thinking about having sex and it's going to excite her. Then when I do avail myself of her, she is already wanting it and more. The thing is though this kind of thing just works with everyone I have been with. That said if someone has seen years of not being like that with a partner and they do this out of the blue, I don't think it will work easily or at all, because one is not likely to be credulous in suddenly being that way.

Also on hand holding and the like, I date women I am with I talk to them because connecting with their mind maintains our connection. I've never presumed flowers are what to give a woman unless it is what they would like (yet flowers don't generate sex) and I don't buy my wife flowers at all.

I get more sex by being more sexual, I get more hand holding, by doing more hand holding, If I want more flowers I will give more flowers. I know my sexual partners more deeply, because I have always spent more time just talking to them.
I agree with this.

One has sex through being sexual and not through being non sexual.

I am a sexual being and sexuality is a required necessity for me to be in a committed relationship.

To be in a committed, sexually exclusive relationship with me, that person must engage in sex with me, otherwise it would just be some form of friendship and I will be free to seek a primary sexual relationship elsewhere.

No apologies. If you want a relationship with me, it will be a sexual one. If you don’t, I understand and no hard feelings and I wish you well.

If you are in a relationship with me, I shall approach sexually at a reasonable time and expect participation. If one does not want a sexual relationship with me, they are free to terminate the relationship and I will expect such. And again, I understand and no hard feelings.

If I am rejected too many times without valid reason (of which there are very very few other than acute illness in which case I would not be initiating anyway) ... I will terminate the relationship.

Point being here - you have sex by having sex. You have it by someone starting it and other accepting the invitation.

If no one invites or no one accepts, then it doesn’t occur.
 

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No I wouldn't be happy, yet I wouldn't have married her in the first place if it wasn't apparent that she was keen and happy to be doing a parade of wanton things with me. Since we wouldn't have been a good match to begin with.

That said this not being happy is all hypothetical. Since I have never been with any woman in an ongoing sexual relationship who wasn't always keen for lots of wanton debauchery.
Ditto here as well.

I would not be with a woman that was not sexual in nature with me and I have terminated a number of dating relationships when it was apparent the sex was not adequate.

However just as importantly, a number of women dumped me when it was apparent that I would not be a supplicating beta that would provide them with goods and services without a regular and high-energy sex life in place.

In other words they dumped me because they did not want to have a sex life with me and knew that I would not stop approaching/initiating and knew that I would not accept a sexless relationship and be a beta provider for them.

Sex is not the ‘only’ thing I want out of a relationship. But it is a key requirement to where a relationship shall not remain in place without it.

I have always made it known through word and deed that that is the case and people thusly have the option to opt out if the relationship if they don’t want to have sex with me and several have and that was their prerogative and I respect their choice.
 

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Sex is not the ‘only’ thing I want out of a relationship. But it is a key requirement to where a relationship shall not remain in place without it.

I have always made it known through word and deed that that is the case and people thusly have the option to opt out if the relationship if they don’t want to have sex with me and several have and that was their prerogative and I respect their choice.
IMHO this is where a lot of these betas that haven’t had sex in years have dropped the ball.

They have chosen to put their own needs as sexualities on the basement storage shelf and have agreed to continue to provide goods and services to their partner.

They have sacrificed their manhood and sexualities at the alter of relationships and have pledged sexual exclusivity to someone who does not want to have with them and has been granted immunity from sexual relations with them.

They may whine and moan and complain, but it is by their own hand because the reason they aren’t having sex is because they are providing goods and services and not having sex.

They don’t have sex because they don’t have sex and have voluntarily removed sexuality from the marital menu. Sex is not a requirement for the continuation of the marriage.

If sex were requirement to be married, the HD would either fire the LD for poor performance.

Or the LD would resign because they do not want perform a key requirement of job description.
 

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Discussion Starter #147
Just as some thoughts to the few above recent posts. I find myself in that situation as sex was hot and heavy when we were dating and now a few years later, its ice cold. Maybe part of it is me as it takes two in order to make things work but when the wife says things are fine and she loves our sex life, there doesn't seem like much interest on her part to work on it. Essentially, I am the only one who sees things are bad.

So the idea of not being with someone unless they are sexual is great but unfortunately in my situation it was not evident before we got married as it was sex everyday for years and now nothing. Well not really nothing but 10 min of sex every few weeks feels like nothing to me.

So I am left with the infamous two choices. Live with it or divorce,,,and both choices suck,
 

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Just as some thoughts to the few above recent posts. I find myself in that situation as sex was hot and heavy when we were dating and now a few years later, its ice cold. Maybe part of it is me as it takes two in order to make things work but when the wife says things are fine and she loves our sex life, there doesn't seem like much interest on her part to work on it. Essentially, I am the only one who sees things are bad.

So the idea of not being with someone unless they are sexual is great but unfortunately in my situation it was not evident before we got married as it was sex everyday for years and now nothing. Well not really nothing but 10 min of sex every few weeks feels like nothing to me.

So I am left with the infamous two choices. Live with it or divorce,,,and both choices suck,
You were the victim of the ole bait and switch. I see Personal’s point above, but it hard to give more of something the other person has made it clear they don’t want. You are aware you have two choices. They may both suck, but one will suck even harder if you let another 5 years go by.
 

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Just as some thoughts to the few above recent posts. I find myself in that situation as sex was hot and heavy when we were dating and now a few years later, its ice cold. Maybe part of it is me as it takes two in order to make things work but when the wife says things are fine and she loves our sex life, there doesn't seem like much interest on her part to work on it. Essentially, I am the only one who sees things are bad.

So the idea of not being with someone unless they are sexual is great but unfortunately in my situation it was not evident before we got married as it was sex everyday for years and now nothing. Well not really nothing but 10 min of sex every few weeks feels like nothing to me.

So I am left with the infamous two choices. Live with it or divorce,,,and both choices suck,
I’m right there with you Brother so I know exactly what you mean.

My wife also technically does consent to marital sex under certain times and conditions.

........it just isn’t any good for me and I doubt if it’s any better for her either even though I basically try to stand on my head, rub my belly and blow bubbles at the same time to please her.

I have offered fair and equitable divorce.

I have offered open marriage.

She has thus far declined stating she wants to remain married and is willing to entertain a marital sex life - - - however I know she is simply performing it as necessary chore like cleaning a toilet after a bad case of dysentery 🤮

She does orgasm regularly but nothing like back before menopause. She could be faking it but The reason I think they are actual orgasms and not fake is because if someone were to fake it, they would do a whole lot better than what these are.

I too am at a crossroads of do I just suck this up and accept that this is the new normal and this is how it will be if I remain in this marriage.

Or do I go with other options if I ever want to experience engaged and connected and enthusiastic sex again.

Additionally, a growing part of me is also starting to think she will be happier and better off without me as well.
 

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So I heard all kinds of crap like, “I just don’t think about sex.” “It’s not a priority for me.” Blah blah, it’s all ******** and you know it because she did it before otherwise you probably never would have been with her in the first place.

You need to seek out the real reason(s). In her case it may be hormones, would she consider going to the doctor and getting checked for HRT? Perhaps something you’re doing is slamming on the brakes for her. You need to try and figure it out and also let her know you’re not happy with things remaining as they are.

Start executing on a plan of self improvement so that maybe you become more attractive either to her or whomever is next in line if you leave. If you are doing behaviors that are obviously stopping her in her tracks what workarounds are there?

To give some examples in my case my wife still has a fear of accidental pregnancy. Possible solution is double up on the birth control or get a vasectomy. Wife doesn’t like dealing with fluids during oral, possible solution is get flavored condoms. Even within that there is a spectrum, maybe you need to cycle through a bunch of different condoms to find one she likes. Once I did hey guess what now I can get oral to completion multiple times per week.
 

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Wife doesn’t like dealing with fluids during oral, possible solution is get flavored condoms. Even within that there is a spectrum, maybe you need to cycle through a bunch of different condoms to find one she likes. Once I did hey guess what now I can get oral to completion multiple times per week.
What is the fun of oral to completion if you have to wear a bag? She doesn’t like fluids? That one you should’ve seen coming (no pun intended). I’d say that one is a red flag you straight up missed. The days of wearing condoms should be done the minute you say “I do”.
 

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Just as some thoughts to the few above recent posts. I find myself in that situation as sex was hot and heavy when we were dating and now a few years later, its ice cold. Maybe part of it is me as it takes two in order to make things work but when the wife says things are fine and she loves our sex life, there doesn't seem like much interest on her part to work on it. Essentially, I am the only one who sees things are bad.

So the idea of not being with someone unless they are sexual is great but unfortunately in my situation it was not evident before we got married as it was sex everyday for years and now nothing. Well not really nothing but 10 min of sex every few weeks feels like nothing to me.

So I am left with the infamous two choices. Live with it or divorce,,,and both choices suck,
@FloridaGuy1, my wife has essentially said the same thing to me dozens of times. It has taken me 20 years to get the kind of sex life I like. My suggestion to you is to read @Personal account about his experiences with woman and figure out how to implement that in your life.
 

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Discussion Starter #153
@FloridaGuy1, my wife has essentially said the same thing to me dozens of times. It has taken me 20 years to get the kind of sex life I like. My suggestion to you is to read @Personal account about his experiences with woman and figure out how to implement that in your life.
Yeah that would just require me leaving my current situation. I don't think meeting women if I were single would be too difficult, its just I hadn't planned on being single again!
 

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.......
Start executing on a plan of self improvement so that maybe you become more attractive either to her or whomever is next in line if you leave. If you are doing behaviors that are obviously stopping her in her tracks what workarounds are there?

To give some examples in my case my wife still has a fear of accidental pregnancy. Possible solution is double up on the birth control or get a vasectomy. Wife doesn’t like dealing with fluids during oral, possible solution is get flavored condoms. Even within that there is a spectrum, maybe you need to cycle through a bunch of different condoms to find one she likes. Once I did hey guess what now I can get oral to completion multiple times per week.
I just had to quote this comment so you see it again.

For my entire life I was told a mans sexuality is to much and I must control it (Christian upbringing). In the last 6 months, I finally said the heck with it. My wife will never ask about my interests or want to explore them with me. So I just sat her down and told her every crazy sex idea I had been holding back. No filter, no dancing around the topic to protect her. I told her that all of them were possible for us and that everyone of her complaints could me managed (like in @ccpowerslave example above). Within two days my wife said she is fine with essentially all of it. (I wish I could go back 20 years and teach my younger self some things about sex).
 

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Discussion Starter #156
I just had to quote this comment so you see it again.

For my entire life I was told a mans sexuality is to much and I must control it (Christian upbringing). In the last 6 months, I finally said the heck with it. My wife will never ask about my interest are want to explore them with me. So I just sat her down and told her every crazy sex idea I had been holding back. No filter, no dancing around the topic to protect her. I told her that all of them were possible for us and that everyone of her complaints could me managed (like in @ccpowerslave example above). Within two days my wife said she said she is fine with essentially all of it. (I wish I could go back 20 years and teach my younger self some things about sex).
That's pretty good if you can get it to work. I was unsuccessful at a similar attempt. And my ideas were just things like sex in the backyard, going to a topless beach or watching an erotic movie together. No such luck.

Once again, the very reason I started this post.

I realize my situation and she is not going to change. She was married long term before our marriage so she's set in her ways. I just have to decide if going without is worth staying or not??? Not an easy decision.
 

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Discussion Starter #157
Maybe. I have you tried anything like that with your wife?
Yeah, mine isn't even into just plain vanilla sex more than a time or two a month let alone anything more risqué.

I essentially am trying to just increase our plain, vanilla sex life and then maybe makle it better and have discounted anything more "erotic" than that.
 

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Yeah, mine isn't even into just plain vanilla sex more than a time or two a month let alone anything more risqué.

I essentially am trying to just increase our plain, vanilla sex life and then maybe makle it better and have discounted anything more "erotic" than that.
I hear you. My crazy ideas included things like haveing sex in the car on a date night (we have never done it). Or having oral sex in a the car. Or having a picnic in the woods then get it on. I think a lot a poeple would laugh at what I labeled crazy.
 

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For my entire life I was told a mans sexuality is to much and I must control it (Christian upbringing).
I stopped having to go to bible school when I got kicked out after laughing while the principal was trying to give me a beating. Fortunately for me I didn’t have to go to church for very long either.

Only now much later in life do I have any interest so I missed out on the sexual guilt part.
 

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Discussion Starter #160
I hear you. My crazy ideas included things like haveing sex in the car on a date night (we have never done it). Or having oral sex in a the car. Or having a picnic in the woods then get it on. I think a lot a poeple would laugh at what I labeled crazy.
I know what you mean. I've joked about some risqué things but even the jokes weren't meant with any good response so I knew anything more would be too much.

I did suggest we get a boat and we could go out and be naked in it and have all kinds of fun and then for three days after that I took a beating for suggesting buying a boat! Not as much the sex on the boat but the boat itself! I then said we could rent a boat instead and her reply was "I'm not talking about this dumb idea anymore". So needless to say that idea didn't "float".
 
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