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I also think that the new generation are selfish. They think about their needs and what they want and live their life that way.
I am just pro marriage. I think kids need a stable loving homes with 2 parents. I think the family unit is sooo important.

They are so worried about themselves. The way they look, the way they feel, their personal identity, their debt. I work with many young people, especially girls, they all have iPhones, get their nails done monthly, dye their hair, get prophylaxis Botox, and they wine and complain about their student loan debt. They are entitled, then are missing life because they are always on their phone. I can’t imagine them thinking about anything other then themselves.... these people don’t make good partners or parents.
 

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I honestly can't believe this "article" got so many responses. Here is my take. Literally NOTHING has changed. Men aren't sitting around thinking I am not going to commit because I am angry about feminism. I don't recall me or any of my friends in our twenties wanting to settle down and have kids. It just wasn't on our radar. It was one of those, "maybe one day" kind of things. We just wanted to have fun. So thats what we did. You date, you meet people, and you have cool experiences, until one day you meet someone and you feel like you only want to be with them, and until that moment happens to you. You'll swear up and down that you aren't ready to settle down. But most of us will have that moment, and I don't see that changing. Ever. People are going to continue to couple up in long term committed relationships.


I think the difference is, boys and men were having fun but also working on their career and they have responsibilities.

Today boys don’t grow up. They don’t have responsibility, they don’t think about their career. Many of them are still acting like kids into their 30s. While women are advancing their career and maybe they see anti man propaganda and there is this whole women empowerment going on. Then when we go to couple up... women don’t want to couple up with these men who are still children, so they decide to wait to get married much later or not at all.
So we have this feminism “issue” and we have this Peter pan problem and it’s causing problems.
 

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The marriage industry is huge. The baby industry is GINORMOUS. This is as if somebody figured out a way to teleport people and said, "What's the big deal... so what if nobody needs to take a plane, a car or a train anymore? We'll find other things to spend our money on." Millions of people out of jobs. Entire industries wiped out.
One industry may be wiped out, but another will take its place. I mean, there isn't much of a market for horse drawn wagons anymore.

And having babies to create jobs probably isn't the wisest choice ....
 

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It's surprising to me that anyone is worried about people not getting married. Where I live, it seems like all the 20-somethings are either already married or planning their weddings. They all seem much more into it than I ever was.
 

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I also think that the new generation are selfish. They think about their needs and what they want and live their life that way.
I am just pro marriage. I think kids need a stable loving homes with 2 parents. I think the family unit is sooo important.

They are so worried about themselves. The way they look, the way they feel, their personal identity, their debt. I work with many young people, especially girls, they all have iPhones, get their nails done monthly, dye their hair, get prophylaxis Botox, and they wine and complain about their student loan debt. They are entitled, then are missing life because they are always on their phone. I can’t imagine them thinking about anything other then themselves.... these people don’t make good partners or parents.
Where I live, I'd say the young people seem pretty grounded to me. Most of them are volunteering in their communities, working hard, and trying to make their way in this mess of the world.
 

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Maybe men aren't getting married these days because some women make them fathers without being married. And whether they were married at the time of conception / birth of the child, they still stand to lose contact with their child when the relationship with the mother goes sour.
 

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If you think the "Peter Pan Problem" is some sort of modern phenomenon then you should note that next month marks the 115th anniversary of the stage play called Peter Pan, or the Boy Who Would Not Grow Up. It's pretty much just an insulting joke many women make about many men. and , Frankly, would you marry someone who treats you that way?
 

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I think the difference is, boys and men were having fun but also working on their career and they have responsibilities.

Today boys don’t grow up. They don’t have responsibility, they don’t think about their career. Many of them are still acting like kids into their 30s. While women are advancing their career and maybe they see anti man propaganda and there is this whole women empowerment going on. Then when we go to couple up... women don’t want to couple up with these men who are still children, so they decide to wait to get married much later or not at all.
So we have this feminism “issue” and we have this Peter pan problem and it’s causing problems.
This is so true.

And we've all but lost our previous generations that had to rise to the real world where it was k own the world is a hostile place, such as our WW2 and more war vets, who had to rise to responsibilities of defending our nation, and see what trw is like outside of one's own head.

Subsequently these men and our society members who had seen true hardships and thus valued peace and benefits of responsibility built a solid fabric of society.

Now, without a current generation knowing true hardships and not getting told first hand stories of having to endure; any splinter or blister on a finger or "hurt feelings" is being counted as a "hardship".

These are tragic times indeed.

If WW2 happened today, many, many persons would shrivel and give up.
 

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I think the difference is, boys and men were having fun but also working on their career and they have responsibilities.

Today boys don’t grow up. They don’t have responsibility, they don’t think about their career. Many of them are still acting like kids into their 30s. While women are advancing their career and maybe they see anti man propaganda and there is this whole women empowerment going on. Then when we go to couple up... women don’t want to couple up with these men who are still children, so they decide to wait to get married much later or not at all.
So we have this feminism “issue” and we have this Peter pan problem and it’s causing problems.
I have observed just as many boys as girls checking out from a career or marriage. Sometimes both, sometimes one or the other. The excuse for checking out of marriage is that it's an outdated relationship style, too much work, and just leads to divorce. The excuse for checking out of a career is that CEOs and investors don't care about people, they just care about extracting profits - meaning that you are a disposable commodity, therefore everyone will eventually get pushed into the gig economy meatgrinder anyway. The excuse for not buying homes is that the boomers have over-inflated the real estate market so that they can retire on everyone else's dime, because boomers only care about themselves. Etc.

It has not been uncommon since women's lib that some women have prioritized their career over marriage and children, until their late 30s and 40s - and then they suddenly decide they want these things, but the only single guys around are either divorced with kids and baggage of their own, or guys that have done the same as they have and don't really have the time or willingness to prioritize a relationship, or guys that checked out of commitments and are coasting. And then it's "there's no good men anymore," when there very much is, but because they're good they're already unavailable to you and aren't coming running just because you snapped your fingers and decided you wanted something. Just like it is for men that do the exact same thing.

You can say it's a boy problem, but I've sat with some of these guys, and seen them send out texts or snaps or instas or whatever, and the girls come running for a night of fun and then they go away, too. Culture is changing. I don't blame millennial when they got handed a society that doesn't work for them. But many of them do work very hard, even if it is very differently. And they do care very much for each other, even if they do that differently, too.
 

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BS

Benghazi
Exactly. We put our young men and women through the meatgrinder and they didn't whimper and cry. In Benghazi, the crisis was one of leadership, not courage or grit from those with boots on the ground.

These guys deal with stuff folks in WWII couldn't have dreamed of, and vice versa. But to say that the courage or grit of forces today doesn't compare to those in WWII... I just disagree with. We idealize the folks in WWII for many reasons, some good, some bad. But I don't think it's fair to say that the current soldiers don't have what it takes compared to them.
 

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Maybe men aren't getting married these days because some women make them fathers without being married. And whether they were married at the time of conception / birth of the child, they still stand to lose contact with their child when the relationship with the mother goes sour.
FW's sex ed lesson for the day: Men make women pregnant, women do not "make men fathers". We can draw you a diagram if necessary.
 

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FW's sex ed lesson for the day: Men make women pregnant, women do not "make men fathers". We can draw you a diagram if necessary.
I remember the precise moment when I became a father. I mean, I impregnated my wife and she gave birth, sure.

But I became a father on the drive home with my son, when everyone was driving too fast, I was nervous if I had installed the car seat correctly, and I realized I was very willing in a real way to not just inconvenience myself for someone I didn't really know, but totally willing to refocus my whole life for their well-being and die for him willingly if that's what it took.

It's like a whole new "father" part of my brain turned on that I didn't even know was there.

Being a parent is fascinating.
 

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Exactly. We put our young men and women through the meatgrinder and they didn't whimper and cry. In Benghazi, the crisis was one of leadership, not courage or grit from those with boots on the ground.

These guys deal with stuff folks in WWII couldn't have dreamed of, and vice versa. But to say that the courage or grit of forces today doesn't compare to those in WWII... I just disagree with. We idealize the folks in WWII for many reasons, some good, some bad. But I don't think it's fair to say that the current soldiers don't have what it takes compared to them.
Most specifically not referring to our men and women serving in any of our military or national guard, we as a whole can't say thanks enough for their sacrifices and service.

But to the snowflakes of today's society.

We the people didn't do the snowflakes any favors by raising them to be self centered and "fragile".

Let's give them all "participation" trophys, and call it a day.

But I can say I didn't raise my boys that way, they're outstanding young men who shoulder responsibility and don't cry over little things, helpful to others, etc.
 

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I think there are a helluva lot more factors in people staying single longer than they did back in my day. Certainly feminism could have a role, however, there are economic factors that cannot be overlooked. Right now, we are dealing with great economies, too bad that a lot of people have to have more than one job to make ends meet. People of my generation are not retiring like people of my parents' generation. Oftimes the economy forbids retirement, as it is just too expensive to retire. Therefore the jobs are not out there. Therefore, we are in a "gig" economy. My youngest was strung along with "contract" jobs after graduation. He was lucky in that he worked as a server all through school and was left with very little student debt. He also learned to go without sleep. He contracted for five long years, then the management at the top changed, and suddenly they do not want contractors. Think they offered the contractors a job? NFW. So, he undergoes a training program, I get him a part time job a night, and he completely changes careers. Gets picked up immediately after the training program and is killing it in tech sales. Meanwhile, the old contract job had to be undertaken by his former supervisor. Six months down the road and they are not doing well. Productivity sucks and senior management is now under fire for eliminating the contractors. They have tried calling them back, too bad that contractors have absolutely no loyalty to former customers and move on. His former supervisor has basically told him that if he comes back, he will be making significantly more than he is now, plus benefits and a long term commitment to his employment. We will string these bastards along for a few months and then make some decisions. I am waiting basically for one or two people at the top of his former contract to be terminated for the extreme idiocy of trying to go cheap. Sorry, I am a vengeful bastard, but as an executive, you live and die by your decisions. The economy has been hurt by large corporations treating human resources like cattle, ultimately disposeable. Is it any wonder that people as a whole are less likely to commit to a relationship when the future is questionable.
 

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Most specifically not referring to our men and women serving in any of our military or national guard, we as a whole can't say thanks enough for their sacrifices and service.

But to the snowflakes of today's society.

We the people didn't do the snowflakes any favors by raising them to be self centered and "fragile".

Let's give them all "participation" trophys, and call it a day.

But I can say I didn't raise my boys that way, they're outstanding young men who shoulder responsibility and don't cry over little things, helpful to others, etc.
What snowflakes?

Using this definition: Snowflake is a 2010s derogatory slang term for a person, implying that they have an inflated sense of uniqueness, an unwarranted sense of entitlement, or are overly-emotional, easily offended, and unable to deal with opposing opinions.

From my vantage point, in my mid 40's, the majority of 'snowflakes' I see are the aging boomers that got pandered to, had society crafted for them, were given benefits they don't acknowledge, and are now totally out of touch with the reality millennials now face as an outcome of their behavior. For example, they are inheriting a world of skyrocketing education costs (boomer cuts in education), skyrocketing real estate costs (boomers leveraging cheaply bought real estate as a retirement vehicle), costly climate change as a result of boomer industrialization, a wildly out of control national debt as a result of spending they didn't do, a pension system that won't be available to them, medical costs that don't scale in a system only designed to facilitate the wholesale extraction of wealth from the population, and a job market that no longer cares about the workforce in the kind of social contract that boomers took for granted.

And that's just economics.

On a personal note, I have a number of millenials working for me. Man, do they work hard and in surprising ways. I got a total re-TCO assessment on a multi-million dollar project from one of them while she was on vacation in central america - which she also used to cut a deal for one of her entrepreneurial side gigs. Wow. While the last time I went to a supermarket, a 60s something women walked right in front of my wife in line at the check-out, and when called out for it, laughed at both my wife and the check-out person, saying "she's paid her dues and it's time for everyone to move aside for her."

This is not to say that some of today's youth is checked out, can't be bothered, and just want things for free. My own nephew is like this. However, he's like this because of his parents that coddled him and are now disturbed by their own creation. My son, who's 7 years younger, is actually more mature, responsible, and capable of basic life skills than my nephew. That's just parenting.

At any rate, if the youth of today feels entitled, it's likely because it's the parents of today encouraged them to be. But I think a lot of what shows up as entitlement is actually a reaction to a system that had them screwed over coming out of the gate, and they've decided not to play by our rules. And that's what the next generation - any generation is supposed to do.
 

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I also think that the new generation are selfish. They think about their needs and what they want and live their life that way.
I am just pro marriage. I think kids need a stable loving homes with 2 parents. I think the family unit is sooo important.
They also witnessed a skyrocketing divorce rate. Half of them are probably not keen on that happening to them when they see the damage left behind first hand. Sadly, there is nothing stable about a 2 parent home anymore. After divorce, the only stability for kids is going back and forth between houses. I think some just say no thanks.
 

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They also witnessed a skyrocketing divorce rate. Half of them are probably not keen on that happening to them when they see the damage left behind first hand. Sadly, there is nothing stable about a 2 parent home anymore. After divorce, the only stability for kids is going back and forth between houses. I think some just say no thanks.
Marriage, job security, pensions, investments, real estate, even what nations mean... there is very little that is stable any more. Safety nets are gone. Social structures now really only serve the ones that already got served. All the while, the current generation going into the job force gets insulted because they don't trust the way their grandparents or parents did things, and are finding their own way, playing by their own rules.

It would be hard to be a 20-something today. Harder than it was for me to be sure, and I'm a gen-x'r, and I remember the anger at boomers having to live in their entitled shadow. Now we're the entitled ones, too... and the boomers are still here, saying and doing boomer things.

Give these kids some slack.
 

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It's the same stupid argument that has existed for hundreds of years. Older closed minded people saying "kids today are no good". Same thing that was said about them by the same types then.

The only difference I see because of gains in technology/medicine/food safety is they are healthier and smarter.
 
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