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I think it comes down to why someone is cheating to begin with. If they're seriously neglected by their spouse, constantly put down, never get a crumb of affection and someone comes along who most would describe as "plain" in the looks department, and says all the right things, it's game on.

*Not saying for a minute that these things make it ok to cheat, just that I can see how it could happen.
 

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Many of you are looking at this from s relationship/marriage oriented perspective in which case, yes average and even somewhat homely men often get with attractive women. Beauty and the beast stories are common.

Average/a little above average/and even a little below average men probably marry at about the same rates as very very good looking men and perhaps even at slightly higher rate.

It’s no newsflash that women will enter relationships/marriage less attractive men.

Where women’s behavior is similar to men is with very good looking men in spontaneous, NSA and casual hook ups outside of traditional relationships.

Women will hook up with extraordinarily good looking men within a short period of time of meeting him, some times right there in the bar or parking lot. Sometimes even when they have boyfriends or husbands.

When a woman hooks up with a hot guy at the bar she just met, she is not wondering if he will be a kind, faithful partner ( in fact, she knows he won’t be) she isn’t wondering if he will be a good father and good provider.

She knows that he is hot and knows her body wants to mash with his.

When a real hot guy enters the scene, women respond and react much as a man would with an attractive woman.

Sometimes women will even shun real good looking guys in terms of relationships because they know he will be hooking up with other chicks, but that doesn’t stop her from pulling him into the bathroom at the bar and propping her bare bottom up on the counter to bang him.

Women are just as sexually responsive and adventurous and motivated as men..... but they just respond in that manner with a lot fewer people than a man would and they deny it more and cover their tracks better in public.

Women are not less sexual than men, they just have much smaller strike zones on how many trigger that response in them.

You've obviously given this a lot of thought.
 

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I can only answer from personal experience and a married perspective. And without comparison to how the opposite gender navigates the world.

I have experienced women going nuts over the presence of a good-looking man, based purely on the physical. But all that has really meant, is expressing immature appreciative comments among other women. Example: In the office, colleague suggested that I needed to walk up to the front, indicating we had a visitor. I had no idea what she was referring to (my head was completely in work-mode), but she laughed and said 'Go... trust me.' Well, I actually needed to pop-out the office anyway, so whatever. When I turned the corner, I almost bumped into (basically but it wasn't) Hugh Jackman. Anyway, brief socially awkward laughter exchange due to this (the nearly bumping into one another, not the Hugh Jackman likeness). Returned to my desk a short while after, and yes, the giggles and hushed commentary about the good looking bloke were in full-force among the team of women. Nothing more or less.

And perhaps this is from a 'coupled' perspective but the physical aspect only goes so far. Presence and vibe of a person goes a long way. And with personality traits that are appealing to me. Being objectively physically attractive doesn't mean much without the other aspects.

Batman is a handsome guy. However, I didn't even know what he looked like and I was already feeling the attraction. We had spoken over the phone; I dug his accent/voice and personality. He dug my accent/voice and personality. When first arranging to meet in person, we didn't think to describe our appearance to one another. Anyway, he didn't run the other way so I was off to a promising start :p Our first interaction ended up being briefer than expected. Next time we met, wasn't a date at that point, the chemistry was there and we were kissing each others faces off. Lasting attraction is a combined thing.

There were also good discussions about certain people attracting certain types.
What does this mean?
 

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Here's a counter-balanced experience from when I was working in a particular office. We needed supplies to continue with a project. Colleagues were complaining how bad our account manager was, we were his client, by not returning calls or getting supplies to us when needed. The director requested for me to try phoning him, nonetheless. We spoke, order was placed, and he arrived with our supplies within two hours. Upon delivery, he asked to meet me. Well, he took one look and said 'By your accent, I thought you'd look different...' His facial expression and disappointed tone was classic. I know it was inappropriate of him but I had to hold back the laughter. I replied 'Sorry to disappoint you.' He grunted, told me who he expected me to to look like, handed over the order and left. The team commented they'd never received service that fast before. I replied, 'Well, now that he knows I don't look like his Hollywood crush, it won't happen again!'
 

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Batman is a handsome guy. However, I didn't even know what he looked like and I was already feeling the attraction. We had spoken over the phone; I dug his accent/voice and personality. He dug my accent/voice and personality. When first arranging to meet in person, we didn't think to describe our appearance to one another.
Batman can be called on the phone? I thought you had to project a light into the sky or get into trouble to get Batman to come and ‘save’ you
 

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I still say my point that physical, visual attraction doesn't create the same arousal response in women is true (for the most part). Maybe women are more aroused that an exceptionally desired man wants HER, and THAT triggers her desire for sex with him, but I still believe that it's different from how men respond physically to visual attraction (again, for the most part).
Totally agree, and that is why porn magazines for women with pics of naked men never did well.
 

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I have been involved with literally hundreds of women, in their groups and close friends.

You also move in very different circles from many of us. I do not doubt the verity of your posts but in believing them, I conclude you have been around very different people and circumstances than many of us.

I believe you and your experience. It doesn't discount what is going on in other places however.
With respect conan I am female and have mixed with thousands of women of all sorts over my life time from all sorts of backgrounds. Also many women in a group setting will act very differently from women alone and say things that they may not even mean or that arent true.
For women looks alone are generally not enough. Women are drawn to things like a sense of humour, a man who treats them well, who gives them attention, treats them with respect. Weirdly I have never ever been attracted to very good looking men, maybe because I cant stand arrogance and many very good looking people tend to be arrogant and think rather too much of themsleves for my liking. For me its a spark or 'chemistry' rather than looks alone. I think it was what my husband had written on his dating profile that really let me know what a genuine and great guy he was. We emailed for a few days before I had even seen a photo of him. We met after 5 days of first message and that weekend I knew he was the one for me and that I wanted to marry him.
Men generally are far more attracted to a woman due to her looks, for women its far more complex as to what attracts them.

Maybe its different for those women who would just jump into bed with a man just after meeting him, but I still think they are far from being in the majority.
 

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What was it that made you think she was the one as soon as you saw her? Did she ever remind you of anyone? Was there something about her?

There's a theory afloat that some men decide someone's the one simply because they are finally ready to commit to someone and they just fall in love with the next woman that happens along and choose them.
I don’t think this theory is correct. At least it wasn’t with me. I only ever pursued one person, at the time I was being pursued by 3 different girls. If the theory was correct, I should have ended up with any of them but I knew exactly who I wanted when I met her.
It was exactly how one would he described being hit by lightning, but in a kind of slow motion. The feeling that all you want is that person was overwhelming, like one of those powerful primal instincts, such as survival.

It is difficult to exactly describe what it is that makes you fall in love with someone.
It’s how all those little things all add up together (aside from the obvious, such as looks); it’s the way she holds herself, how she laughs. There are just too many little things that that gave me butterflies 20 years ago and I still get that same warm feeling when I see or think about her.

Of course we have our fights and she can be temperamental just as I can be stubborn..but that underlying feeling usually never leaves...
It really isn’t just the looks (even if she looks stunning). It’s everything put together. Looks would probably be a way to first notice someone for a guy, I admit, but it takes a lot more to fall in love, at least for me. Although I became obsessed with her pretty much instantly.

I also have a theory though.
I cannot be certain that who I love is ‘really’ who she is, if that makes sense. It’s almost like idolising someone or being lost in a self-inflicted delusion. Being aware of it is kind of disturbing: are they really the way you see and feel about someone? I have no idea as it is totally subjective. I think everyone has a certain capacity to give love to someone. And everyone has a ‘type’. When that type comes along (or someone closest to that type), we give our love to them, believing they are ‘The One’. If that type doesn’t eventually match these internal expectations, we fall out of love with them. But they themselves haven’t changed!
I just mean that the fact that being in love seems like a kind of delusion, is something I sometimes find a bit disturbing when I think about it...and realise it has all to do with me, and almost nothing to do with her...
Don’t really know how to explain it
What is also very disturbing is that you realise what a big empty hole it might leave in you, should the person be not there anymore in your life, for whatever reason.
 

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Batman can be called on the phone? I thought you had to project a light into the sky or get into trouble to get Batman to come and ‘save’ you
Well, initially he called me... no doubt from the bat-phone.
 

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Thinking on this thread, we all recognize that handsome/beauty is somewhat subjective. I'm more drawn towards the non-clean-cut look; not a fan of tucked in shirts and ultra short haircuts. I remember when a close friend met Batman for the first time. Afterwards she admitted that she'd pictured me with a bulky football player type. Batman was on a zoom call recently, and the other person's kid was observing in the background. Referring to my husband, afterwards excitedly asked, 'Dad... you know Dave Grohl?!' The resemblance is really becoming uncanny. But one person's Dave Grohl is another person's Dave Beckham, Jim Gaffigan, or Lenny Kravtiz... As for visual appreciation of men, there's that walk-stride-swagger, toned forearms, musician hands... lots to visually appreciate.
 

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While practically ALL guys, if they were actually honest, and could pull it off, would want as hot a woman as they can get....I've seen countless really desirable guys put up with a world of shyt and problems to have a woman with a nice rack/body and killer looks...I have also known plenty of good looking women that bring little else to the table(some nothing else, manage to parlay that into an easy life with a good man that would do anything for them.....I mean anything....

For women it's a little more complex(I think anyway)...Sure, a lot of women will go gaga over a guy with great looks/body, but at the same time, if it takes away the attention from them, or they then become the lesser "shiny object" in the relationship, then it feeds into an insecurity...Add to that, while it's normal for one guy to give a thumbs up or high five when they see one of their friends or even a guy on the street with a very attractive woman, its different for women....Women are more competitive with one another for men, and they don't get that same respect....it turns into a "what can he possibly see in HER!" kind of thing and may even go as far as to try to seduce that man away from her...They'll even do it among their "friends"...It's really crazy and I have seen this play out more often than I can count...

Guys also get "extra credit" for some traits that women generally don't ..An ugly doctor or entrepreneur will often do far better than a better looking guy that hasn't accomplished anything in his life....Most guys don't really care if a woman has a lot of accomplishments if she is good looking or has a nice body...Those things then become pluses, but they don't "make or break" like they can for guys...

Also, when I hear a woman who is generally attractive say "eh, I don't go for good looking guys as they are too into themselves and narcissistic"....I call total BS on that.. That would be the equivalent of a guy saying they don't go for blondes with big breasts as they are all dumb...The reality there is that those women just don't want other women ogling and potentially trying to steal their man...They also feel that those guys probably get more opportunity to get laid, so they don't want the worry about that either...And that's fine, really, but lets not try to hide it with some bull crap about how all those guys are so into themselves/narcissists...Most of the time it's not true...Some of the biggest personality losers are guys that aren't good looking...
 

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I cannot be certain that who I love is ‘really’ who she is, if that makes sense. It’s almost like idolising someone or being lost in a self-inflicted delusion. Being aware of it is kind of disturbing: are they really the way you see and feel about someone?
Your post was very sweet. With this part though, I think you can gauge whether how you see your wife is consistent with how she presents in the world, through noticing the feedback of others. I'm not suggesting that love is conditional to the opinions of others, but if you thought the world of her and wondered if you were deluded, the reality-checking would be in her relationships with others, and how she interacts and conducts herself. If there was a big misalignment, let's say she was the bully at work, well, the world around her could show you different aspects of who she is. Compared to general congruence and then knowing her without the social mask.
 

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Discussion Starter #74
What does this mean?
@oldshirt noted on the other thread that the woman in question attracted certain types of men. She was assumed to be attractive but very self centered and shallow.

He noted that the kinds of men she attracted were players and weak men with little self esteem.

@oldshirt postulated that her husband was weak because of his behavior surrounding her infidelity. He may have been correct but I thought the discussion about certain people attracting types was interesting.
 

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I can only answer from personal experience and a married perspective. And without comparison to how the opposite gender navigates the world.

I have experienced women going nuts over the presence of a good-looking man, based purely on the physical. But all that has really meant, is expressing immature appreciative comments among other women. Example: In the office, colleague suggested that I needed to walk up to the front, indicating we had a visitor. I had no idea what she was referring to (my head was completely in work-mode), but she laughed and said 'Go... trust me.' Well, I actually needed to pop-out the office anyway, so whatever. When I turned the corner, I almost bumped into (basically but it wasn't) Hugh Jackman. Anyway, brief socially awkward laughter exchange due to this (the nearly bumping into one another, not the Hugh Jackman likeness). Returned to my desk a short while after, and yes, the giggles and hushed commentary about the good looking bloke were in full-force among the team of women. Nothing more or less.

And perhaps this is from a 'coupled' perspective but the physical aspect only goes so far. Presence and vibe of a person goes a long way. And with personality traits that are appealing to me. Being objectively physically attractive doesn't mean much without the other aspects.

Batman is a handsome guy. However, I didn't even know what he looked like and I was already feeling the attraction. We had spoken over the phone; I dug his accent/voice and personality. He dug my accent/voice and personality. When first arranging to meet in person, we didn't think to describe our appearance to one another. Anyway, he didn't run the other way so I was off to a promising start :p Our first interaction ended up being briefer than expected. Next time we met, wasn't a date at that point, the chemistry was there and we were kissing each others faces off. Lasting attraction is a combined thing.


What does this mean?
That reminded me about when my husband and I met on line. 3 days after first contact we talked on the phone. I just LOVED his deep Aussie accent. One more clue that he was the one I wanted. :love:

Yes I have also seen women be silly about a good looking man, as you say it was just because they were together in a group.
 

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Thinking on this thread, we all recognize that handsome/beauty is somewhat subjective. I'm more drawn towards the non-clean-cut look; not a fan of tucked in shirts and ultra short haircuts. I remember when a close friend met Batman for the first time. Afterwards she admitted that she'd pictured me with a bulky football player type. Batman was on a zoom call recently, and the other person's kid was observing in the background. Referring to my husband, afterwards excitedly asked, 'Dad... you know Dave Grohl?!' The resemblance is really becoming uncanny. But one person's Dave Grohl is another person's Dave Beckham, Jim Gaffigan, or Lenny Kravtiz... As for visual appreciation of men, there's that walk-stride-swagger, toned forearms, musician hands... lots to visually appreciate.
I am the opposite. Nothing much nicer to me than a guy in a smart suit and short tidy hair. As you say its all subjective.
 

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I don’t think this theory is correct. At least it wasn’t with me. I only ever pursued one person, at the time I was being pursued by 3 different girls. If the theory was correct, I should have ended up with any of them but I knew exactly who I wanted when I met her.
It was exactly how one would he described being hit by lightning, but in a kind of slow motion. The feeling that all you want is that person was overwhelming, like one of those powerful primal instincts, such as survival.

It is difficult to exactly describe what it is that makes you fall in love with someone.
It’s how all those little things all add up together (aside from the obvious, such as looks); it’s the way she holds herself, how she laughs. There are just too many little things that that gave me butterflies 20 years ago and I still get that same warm feeling when I see or think about her.

Of course we have our fights and she can be temperamental just as I can be stubborn..but that underlying feeling usually never leaves...
It really isn’t just the looks (even if she looks stunning). It’s everything put together. Looks would probably be a way to first notice someone for a guy, I admit, but it takes a lot more to fall in love, at least for me. Although I became obsessed with her pretty much instantly.

I also have a theory though.
I cannot be certain that who I love is ‘really’ who she is, if that makes sense. It’s almost like idolising someone or being lost in a self-inflicted delusion. Being aware of it is kind of disturbing: are they really the way you see and feel about someone? I have no idea as it is totally subjective. I think everyone has a certain capacity to give love to someone. And everyone has a ‘type’. When that type comes along (or someone closest to that type), we give our love to them, believing they are ‘The One’. If that type doesn’t eventually match these internal expectations, we fall out of love with them. But they themselves haven’t changed!
I just mean that the fact that being in love seems like a kind of delusion, is something I sometimes find a bit disturbing when I think about it...and realise it has all to do with me, and almost nothing to do with her...
Don’t really know how to explain it
What is also very disturbing is that you realise what a big empty hole it might leave in you, should the person be not there anymore in your life, for whatever reason.
Yes, I knew within a few days that my husband was the one for me.
My son, who is one of those rare men who are both good looking and a very lovely guy went onto a smallish Christian dating site years ago. He got about 40 women messaging him, and his now lovely wife was the first. He said he just knew straight away that she was the one and they began dating and never looked back. Never needed to date any of the others. Sometimes you just know.
 

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Discussion Starter #78
With respect conan I am female and have mixed with thousands of women of all sorts over my life time from all sorts of backgrounds. Also many women in a group setting will act very differently from women alone and say things that they may not even mean or that arent true.
For women looks alone are generally not enough. Women are drawn to things like a sense of humour, a man who treats them well, who gives them attention, treats them with respect. Weirdly I have never ever been attracted to very good looking men, maybe because I cant stand arrogance and many very good looking people tend to be arrogant and think rather too much of themsleves for my liking. For me its a spark or 'chemistry' rather than looks alone. I think it was what my husband had written on his dating profile that really let me know what a genuine and great guy he was. We emailed for a few days before I had even seen a photo of him. We met after 5 days of first message and that weekend I knew he was the one for me and that I wanted to marry him.
Men generally are far more attracted to a woman due to her looks, for women its far more complex as to what attracts them.

Maybe its different for those women who would just jump into bed with a man just after meeting him, but I still think they are far from being in the majority.
Discussions and actions...


I don't doubt your experience. I lived mine.

I stopped messing around when I met my wife at age 20.

I was extremely picky and turned the majority of would be bed partners away and I was still with around 60 women, most in a six month stretch when I stopped caring for a while.

My number easily could have been in the multiple hundreds and I never lifted a finger, so to speak, in effort pursuing any of them.

The great majority of them didn't know me from Adam and wanted one thing.

I was hit on by just about every kind of woman around, married or not though I'm glad to say far less married than not.

The great majority of these women didn't know me at all. They just liked something they saw. Period. There ages ranged from teens, around my age, to mid thirties.

It didn't stop just because I was married either.

I was in the California red woods on a family vacation and had my youngest on my lap with Mrs. Conan sitting right next to me and a young park ranger threw me a pass anyway!

I was struck dumb as I looked at my son and wife until my wits came back and I asked Mrs. C what she thought about the young ladies offer?

We both giggled about it but the ranger didn't even seem embarrassed though she didn't offer again.

I've been out in the company of co workers at a bar and grill and had good natured conversations about who the men and women would go for.

The women weren't shy about who they would take for a roll in the hay or something more serious.

I know my life and experience flies in the face of yours but it's still true.
 

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I am the opposite. Nothing much nicer to me than a guy in a smart suit and short tidy hair. As you say its all subjective.
Yeah, my friends have teased me in the past knowing that I like 'em a bit scruffy. Or really, a combination of non-clean-cut but with a tailored jacket. mreow.
 
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Discussion Starter #80
I would like to note that I am just sharing data on one issue. I don't care for my past and wish it was different.

There are some who are claiming women as a gender don't jump men who they like the looks of just because they think he is hot.

I know for a fact that they do.

Individuals are a different story but women aren't at all in lock step with caring about more than appearance when looking to hook up.
 
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