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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This debate is all over the place. The medical field says that there is no proof. The other side says how can the numbers keep getting higher now 1 in 88. My oldest diagnosed at 2. You wouldn't believe the pressure our doctor tried putting on us when we told him we are holding off giving it to our youngest. Thankfully the RN pulled us aside and said wait until 3, he is not in daycare and not being exposed to other children so wait it out. He is not showing signs and we are going to wait. Anyone else with the same experience or opinions on the subject?
 

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I don't feel there is enough proof to say the shots cause autism. There is plenty of proof of the damage that can be done by the MMR viruses though. My son is already at risk for complications with seizures if he gets any sickness, so I went with what I felt was the lesser of two evils and keep him up on all his shots.

I understand the concerns on both sides and don't judge any parents decision.
 

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Because there is no empirical or measurable reference for autism spectrum disorders, that's why. It's a 100% inferred diagnosis. It is whatever some doctor thinks it might look like. So from near zero it's zoomed up the charts to 'everyone's got it now!' just like food allergies, autoimmune diseases and vitamin D mega doses. It's good for what's popular. And of course with autism spectrum, like all those other things there's no treatment or cure, it rarely if ever kills the patient and they never get better.
 

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Because there is no empirical or measurable reference for autism spectrum disorders, that's why. It's a 100% inferred diagnosis. It is whatever some doctor thinks it might look like. So from near zero it's zoomed up the charts to 'everyone's got it now!' just like food allergies, autoimmune diseases and vitamin D mega doses. It's good for what's popular. And of course with autism spectrum, like all those other things there's no treatment or cure, it rarely if ever kills the patient and they never get better.
That's not true, I'll elaborate more later
 

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It was a huge thing over here. Despite the doctor who did the original study that caused the furore being totally discredited parents still refused to give their kids the vaccine. So all those diseases came back with a vengeance along with all the complications

Do I judge the parents' decisions? Only a little bit, because they listened to hysterical media reports rather than looking at the actual evidence of a link. Which is non existent.

I mean you talk of the medical field being one side. Who actually is 'the other side'?
 

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As parents, you just have to do research and make the best choice. I do NOT think 1 year olds should get MMR at all. Their brain's membrane of protection is not finished forming.

My oldest was on schedule with her shots. She has sensory processing disorder and who knows if that was caused by the shots or what. I do know that after her first set of shots, she screamed for days. Blood curtling screams. Days. Hours. Omg. Was never the same. Smart kid though...not autistic.

With my 2nd, we delayed....and she never got the MMR. Not sure if she will and that is based on research, talking with doctors, etc. Our choice and we're fine with it.
 

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I am not an autism subject expert. I have raised a child with autism for the past 20 years. If I could travel back in time I would without a doubt not have him vaccinated until he was 3 or 4.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Parents who are concerned would be the other side. Just type in MMR into YouTube and you can see for yourself. See parents whose child showed no signs before the shot and hours later developed a fever and were never the same. We seen signs before the shot but when the odds are something like 40% that my other child could possible have it we decided to wait to give it to him.
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Of course. I am not saying it is or isn't. Just a conversation. But I don't believe everything the drug companies are saying.
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Global warming is peer-reviewed science as well. What are your thoughts on that?
 

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I would rather vaccinate than not, as the scare started from faulty "medical research" that was disproved years ago, but for what ever reason people are still thinking that vaccines cause autism. There is no such proof and I would want to protect my child from dangerous, preventable diseases.

We have outbreaks now of diseases that were almost eradicated because so many refuse to vaccinate. When people do not vaccinate, they rely on what is called "herd immunity", but it only works if a certain percentage of the population is vaccinated. We're in a time now where a high percentage of people are refusing to vaccinate, so we are seeing record numbers of preventable diseases. It's really sad.
 

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I so wish I could change your mind. I've lived with autism 20 years now. I don't know if it's the vaccines or some other environmental factor. It's not better diagnosis. I can watch my son's behaviors deteriorate depending upon what he eats. Any dairy or wheat and he becomes violent. He was part of the Lovaas program when he was three all the way up until he was 15. We started living a lifestyle of logging behaviors and antecedents. I know that if my son eats a milk product, within 24 hours he will become uncontrollably angry. He will engage in self-injurious behaviors sometimes necessitating mild restraining intervention. His receptive and expressive language regresses. This will occur off and on for the next 24 hours. By the 2nd day after ingesting dairy products, he will start slowly returning to normal.

Behaviors are also spiked by other environmental factors such as allergens. Spring and Autumn (harvest) are the worst times of year for him and his anger issues.

Ay yay yay. You can see this is a touchy issue for me. I personally don't think Autism results JUST from immunization, or JUST from environmental factors. But I think there is some combination of both plus some possible genetic predispositions that are causing it. SOMETHING has changed in the last 30 years. SOMETHING is causing this.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thank you for sharing. We are going to wait as long as possible to give him the MMR. Again my children are not in daycare or around other children, so for now we have the luxury of waiting to give it to our youngest. Thankfully early intervention approved ABA therapy for 24 hours a week and we have seen a lot of improvements.
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I have no doubts that Austism is tough to deal with and was a nanny to a young girl with it for years. She is a sweet heart and I love her to death.

BUT, I have also seen the other side as well, with children who were not vaccinated and contracted these preventable diseases. I've seen young babies die of whooping cough(Pertussis), a boy who contracted Mumps at 2 which led to a meningitis infection then causing severe brain damage(he will always be mentally at that same age), and other children who have suffered from preventable diseases. They didn't have to suffer or die. These are all preventable cases with vaccines.

I feel like the benefits of vaccination outweigh the small risks.
 

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Global warming is peer-reviewed science as well. What are your thoughts on that?
OK, I'll take that bait. ;) I know its totally off topic, and I'll chime in on the autism thing next.

The thing is... the more I research GW, the more I understand how much of a slam dunk it is. By any measure at this point - it is irrefutable. The is no longer any 'controversy' or any refutation that carries any weight because there is no evidence to back that position up. This really is a topic for a different thread maybe in the Social Spot.

Scientific Consensus on Global Warming | Union of Concerned Scientists
 

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Ay yay yay. You can see this is a touchy issue for me. I personally don't think Autism results JUST from immunization, or JUST from environmental factors. But I think there is some combination of both plus some possible genetic predispositions that are causing it. SOMETHING has changed in the last 30 years. SOMETHING is causing this.
First off SandC... I really respect your thoughts and experience and you seem to me one of the more lucid people on TAM. Really.

My own lay view about autism and its causes I mostly get from my own incessant reading of technical journals of all stripes and some people I know that work with autistic kids. I have zero medical background and no particular interest in autism specifically. I have no doubt that you have things that you observe that directly impact, and severely, the childs behavior - same as many parents that deal with it to varying degrees of success.

You have to agree however that we simply dont know what is going on, and that it is not the same for everyone. That is where science helps separate the chaff from the wheat.. that is where we start distinguishing between, anecdote, folk tales and homeopathy. If we dont then we start doing everything needlessly and relying on superstition and gut feelings and maybe make things worse. Gluten free may help some with behaviors, but so far nobody can say it is a root cause. Nor vaccinations. Nor VOCs from your carpet. Nor Phthalates. There are hints and hopes, but bottom line is, as you know.. nobody knows. The search continues...

I believe many people just buy into the 'something is better than nothing' mentality. You cant just do nothing.. its not an option. So healhy people take vitamins which dont do anything unless you have a dietary deficiancy which almost none of us do. They avoid immunizations for kids out of fear of autism when in fact their real fear should be potentially fatal childhood diseases. Immunizations are so effective people are forgetting how brutal these diseases can be. They kill.

I dont fault you one tiny bit for suggesting parents wait until 3-4. I am as sucpicious as anyone on that score, so I suppose I am as 'bad' as everyone else too - but we immunized our kids as the pediatrician, who we very much trust she is very good - suggests. The frequency and volume of immunization ****tails given to kids these days is crazy. I honestly feel it is fear that keeps people from getting them and not reason. Its risky not to as well.

So I guess what I'm suggestion is that the gut feeling that you could have done 'something' such as waiting to immunize a child would have made a difference - I just dont buy it.

Peace and love to you and your family.
 

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Just read the vaccine insert and there are plenty of reasons to be wary of putting it into your child, regardless of an autism connection.

Look at the data the CDC releases too. Some of them have higher adverse event rates than confirmed cases of the illnesses they vaccinate against.

There is a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program funded by the federal government. This would not exist if vaccines were harmless.
 
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