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At what point are female/male friendships a problem?

10K views 107 replies 27 participants last post by  homebuilder 
#1 ·
The answer may be "when you let it become one". This may all be on me - we'll see.

Me 44/him 43. Me married once, one child, single now for 8 years. Him married once, no kids, separated for 11 months. Dating 7 months. (Yeah, give me that lecture, too.)

He is VERY social. Tons of great buddies from high school and college that still get together very often - some local, some not. Active in church, has friends from there. He does a LOT of stuff with male friends - pro sporting events, fundraising events, sees friend's kids sporting events...

He "can't" introduce me to a large circle of friends who know his ex because she was a WW and it might affect his property division if she perceives he's moved on... but no real legal recourse. He said he wasn't ready for her to know about me.

His family (not in town) knows about me and my daughter, as well as some of his friends who no longer have any ties to his wife know we date and I have met his sister but that was before we were exclusive.

My problem? He goes out with female friends. I'm a single mom and I can't go out and have dinner and drinks until 10pm on a weeknight. I get that it's not fair to think he can't and one of the things I love is how socially vibrant he is. He doesn't hide his activity from me but he'll just say "going out with friends" and then I found out it was with two single female friends.

I can see writing this out it is MY problem, not his. I'm insecure in this relationship. He's not divorced, I'm hoping it's not rebound (he says it isn't but it can happen) and I haven't heard those three little words yet. He's very cautious of his feelings. He spends at least one weeknight with me and my daughter, he comes to her sporting events, too but this is the NORM for him, not anything special for him.

Add to the mix I spent Friday night with him and finally initiated intimacy int he middle of the night when it was obvious it wasn't going to happen (and we haven't since September) and I think he's pulling away.

Paranoia? Insecurity? Dating sux - I'm "built" for marriage, not the roller coaster ride of dating. Should I just wait this out for a few months and see how things progress as he goes through the divorce and property settlement? See if he invites me to church, to meet family or friends... I don't know if I'm being considerate and understanding or stupid.
 
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#7 ·
I can GUARANTEE your male friends would sleep with you in a HEARTBEAT! Guarantee. And if her hubby is straight, he wants to have sex with both of those single gals he went out to dinner with. GUARANTEE. What the OP has going for her is that those 2 gal pals feel the way you do.

I was AMAZED to find out how few women realize that their guy buddies want to screw them.
 
#5 ·
Does he go out with you at all? How often do you guys have sex? I would KILL to have a woman initiate sex with me. That includes my frigid wife. 7 months of dating, you guys should be in the honeymoon stage still. He seems to be pulling away.

Also, my gaydar is going off. Did he EVER seem to enjoy sex with you?
 
#8 ·
OP, if your BF is legally separated, I can't see how his W knowing about you could affect their division of property when they divorce. When is his divorce likely to become final?

If you're in an exclusive relationship, I don't think he should be hanging out with female friends. But if you feel that he's pulling away from you right now, this mightn't be the time to have that sort of talk with him.

I think in your shoes I'd probably start distancing myself a little from him, by making arrangements to see my own friends and keeping busy. Perhaps when his divorce is final he'll feel more settled and open to letting you know how he feels about you.
 
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#14 ·
Hes not LEGALLY separated but physically separated which counts in my state. But she doesn't yet know that he has proof of adultery which can affect equitable distribution. I don't see how her knowing about me matters except maybe she'll feel sorry for him and settle for more if she thinks he's alone and devastated? Divorce can be filed in January.

Yeah, I don't want to become clingy and drive him away. I am careful about that and do my own thing. I think that's the best route to take. He's making plans to come to daughter's sports event mid-November. Thanksgiving plans are apart and were made months ago. I'm hoping I get an invite to meet his family at Christmas since kiddo will be with her Dad and I'll be alone on Christmas.

I guess keep being myself, try to not over-think his social calendar and see where this goes in the next couple months is best.
 
#12 ·
Again, NOT husband - boyfriend of 7 months. I realize I'm on TAM but there's no where I've found that gives reasonable dating advice that isn't directed toward the 20-30 y/o crowd.

Since he seems to have SO many friends of both genders and knows the pain of being cheated on, I'd like to think he wouldn't dare and that he'd end it with me before perusing anything.

And I feel I'm unreasonable to ask him to sit at home alone just because I can't go out. :( One girl is 31 and very pretty and the other is hard to tell as she's a pacific islander.

We fooled around a few times before finally having sex in August. Sex one more time. Then an overnight where we had to be up at 4am and he was too tired followed by reunion, business trips, etc. Plus since my daughter is home always except for every other weekend, opportunity only knocks twice a month. Planets must align.

Friday he was tired from business trip so I woke him up at 6am w/ a BJ then nothing. I realize he might not be up for another O but what about morning sex? Shower sex? My having a turn?

He's very self conscious about his body (big deal - he has a flabby tummy - I'm not perfect at size 16) and VERY cautious about relationships and probably less sexual partners than me.

I'm childless this weekend so it will be interesting to see if he stays over and what happens. The next weekend Im without child he's going out of town to stay w/ a married friend to go to a college football game so a month will pass.

Could be he's severely LD. I think he needs HRT but I don't know if it's appropriate I suggest that so soon in our relationship.

UG.
 
#23 ·
I think he needs HRT but I don't know if it's appropriate I suggest that so soon in our relationship.
I gotta say, it seems like awfully soon in a relationship to have to work so hard. Seven months in, it should be FUN. It sounds like you two are in very different places. Like you said, you live the "kid life" and it's very different from a "not-kid life". I'd be pretty resentful if someone wanted me to give up the people that I socialize with just because THEY can't go out at night. Then add in the frustration with being able to date openly, mismatched sex drives, finding time to be together.....are you really wanting to work this hard at this point? I mean, if you're already feeling this way, what's going to happen in a year or two? It doesn't seem as though either of you are wrong about any of this, but it doesn't make you right, or right together, either.

Dating is like jeans shopping. Hopefully less traumatic though! But it's all about trying people on until you find that one that makes you feel like a million bucks....then you do whatever you have to do to get them! :smthumbup:
 
#27 ·
Jeepers, I would like to think I have the self control not too.

I love my wife and can't imagine cheating on her.

If I was single, then maybe, but I'm a relationship sort of man, I'd suck at being a PUA.
 
#21 ·
The answer may be "when you let it become one". This may all be on me - we'll see.

Me 44/him 43. Me married once, one child, single now for 8 years. Him married once, no kids, separated for 11 months. Dating 7 months. (Yeah, give me that lecture, too.)

He "can't" introduce me to a large circle of friends who know his ex because she was a WW and it might affect his property division if she perceives he's moved on... but no real legal recourse. He said he wasn't ready for her to know about me..
Oooh! Lecture time!

Anytime you are dating a man who is married (yes, he is married), it's got DRAMA written all over it.

Anytime you are dating a guy who is freshly separated from his wife (by your math, you began dating only 4 months post-him-separating-from-wifey), it's got DRAMA written all over it.

A guy freshly separated from his wife is like a hungry man in the desert (usually). The last thing on his mind is usually a BONAFIDE commitment or super-serious-relationship. Sure, it can happen, but it's a rarity. He is so excited to see and meet different women at this point! He has just been released from a prison of monogamy (lol) so he is totally into how many chicks are smiling at him, how guilt-free he feels about hanging with women now without it being "weird" cause he's married (but yes, he's married anyway in your case), so yeah, 'serious relationship' ain't gonna be the one thing on his mind.

With all of this said: your thread question--it's a problem when one spends more time with these friends than they do you; it's a problem when they confide in eachother about their relationship problems; it's a problem when they have feelings; it's a problem when it interferes with your relationship. So many little things.

In your case, I think those things are the least of your worries.

Anytime you are dating a man who isn't "ready" to introduce you to his friends, his family, his "life," then you are wasting your time unless you like being the sidepiece/lover. Unless you are ok with being hidden from his Real World. It can work... if you are down for all of that and/or you are also using him as a lover-only and not ready to introduce him to the world.

I say... cut this guy loose until he is single and/or ready to introduce you to his Real Life.

Because he's not ready for that yet. So cut him loose. Stop sleeping with him, being his fall-back girl, being his "interim" girl. You may not want to be the rebound, but to me, it sounds like you are.

Look, you know men. When they're into you, they are. You said, after all of the above, that you feel he's pulling away. He probably is.

In the future, don't date married dudes!



 
#31 ·
I broke my rule about dating married/separated men. When he contacted me I liked everything about him but said nope.

He DOES confide in me... all of the things that are going on with the divorce and his life in general. I don't think these friends replace me. Texts me all day every day (unless golfing). I reply but don't initiate contact - I'm not always in the wings for him.

I like having plans and someone to do stuff with so I don't think I'm ready to cut it off. I want a date for boss's holiday party! :rofl: I'm acutely aware we are in different places and any time I mention that he said "oh brother" as if to say "don't be silly". He has said he isn't dating other women and we agree we are exclusive as long as there is sex.

I know the risks so think I'm willing to be his lover and see if that changes after the divorce in January. If not, good bye. I'll give it til then. After all, with our every-other-weekend arrangement, it's not that long. I think if I cut him out now, I'll be cut out for good because of the level of hurt he's experienced with WW.
 
#26 · (Edited)
At what point are female/male friendships a problem?
Exactly at the point where you think there can be such a thing between two people who are physically attractive. Men don't have female "friends". We have female "acquaintances". The only possible female friends that we can have are just fugly. Then we can be friends.

Also, if you think your male friends (unless gay, severely sick or mentally disturbed) don't want to bang you, think again. It's not so. You're sending "unavailable" signs and don't need the complication. But if you were to offer stringless sex i guarantee they would take the offer (unless they had another woman they risked to lose).

Whenever a guy uses the word "friend" when talking about an attractive female, read "woman i'm keeping around cuz i'm working on banging her in the future". If you here the line "just friends" from a guy, unless she is fugly, he is lying his ass off.

How do i know? I'm a man. I talk to other men. Never in my life have i met a guy who talked to girls for "friendship". That's bullsh!t.

I'm predicting that 95% of the people who disagree are young women. The rest are mature women with little experience in men and the occasional low testosterone guy who keeps wondering why his beard doesn't grow like the other dudes.
 
#29 ·
Have you ever read "He's just not that into you"? That book was a lifesaver for me. I'm sorry, but the guy's giving you tons of hints that he's not available, from lack of intimacy, dating other women, and STILL being married. Step back and think about it; ask yourself if this is the guy for you?
 
#32 ·
Yup. Aside from this issue he seems VERY into me. And going to dinner w/ two women isn't "dating" other women. I don't think I'm being ignorant here - he has very high personal integrity standards.
 
#30 ·
Friday he was tired from business trip so I woke him up at 6am w/ a BJ then nothing. I realize he might not be up for another O but what about morning sex? Shower sex? My having a turn? WHAT A WOMEN!!!! Maybe he is trying to get some space to make sure your what he wants. He hasn't been separated long and not yet divorced. I think if I was in that situation I would be very cautious and move slow to make sure I was not making a mistake, plus he may be enjoying being a semi single man.Talk to him about the sex maybe he is unsure about the relationship and doesn't want to feel like his using you or thinking with the wrong head
 
#38 ·
Whenever a guy uses the word "friend" when talking about an attractive female, read "woman i'm keeping around cuz i'm working on banging her in the future".
ARRRGH! Where was TAM when I was in my 20s and could have USED some good guy 'acquaintences' (see, I ALMOST put 'friends', but now I know better) to wise me up?????

I think I DEFINITELY have to send my 15yo daughter here to TAM in a few years when she's an adult. Then she won't have to wait as long as I did to get WISED UP.

X O X O X O to the guys at TAM with the sack to tell it straight!
 
#41 ·
I partly disagree with this theory that every guy wants to sleep with his female friend. Well, yes , i was with this male friend once at a nightclub and we ended up hugging, touching..etc but now he insists that we are "just friends" even though he knows that I am head over heels for him. I am good looking and young. I am 25 and he is 31.

Yes, he is getting married now but he was getting married , too, that night . He didn't tell me then that he was getting married.
 
#42 ·
The 31y/o is a manager at a bar/restaurant he frequents (his "Cheers" bar) and befriended. The other he because friends with because she used to date a friend of his but now they are all in the same social group.
I will say as a man I can talk more to a women about personal issues than with a guy and maybe thats what he is doing. I've had female friends in the past that I told things that I would have never told a guy.
 
#45 ·
This is so refreshing, but can you have a close personal friendship with one?
To be honest I haven't had a female friend like that since I was an adult, but when I was a teenager one of my best friends was a girl and we were really close talked about everything and all the time. I actually dated her best friend. After we had been friends about 2 years I did ask her out and she said no, but a few days later I thought about it and I was so glad she did say no and I even told her that. We would have never been good as a couple. I eventually graduated High school and she moved away and haven't talk to her since but I do miss the friendship we had even now over 15 years later
 
#55 ·
OK. Enough of going off on a tangent. "Your" man uses his marital status to date other women while leaving you home. Yes, that little trip with the 2 gals to the bar was a date. If he's not gay, he wants to sleep with them. Of that I have no doubt.

Does he even know you two are dating? Because if he wanted to spend time with you, I'm thinking it would be pretty easy to find a way of doing it without jaepordizing his divorce.

And I'm glad you're setting yourself up for the "he just finds it easier to talk to women about his problems than men". Because I'm getting ready to try that rap on a hot little single mom in the neighborhood who's pants I want to remove. If you can fall for that line after all of this advice on inter-gender relationships, hottie mom will be pudding in my hands. And I've got my excuse ready for when my wife busts me.

I don't know if we've helped you, but you surely have helped me.

Thanks
 
#56 ·
I don't think it's a "date" when it's TWO girls and him... he had these friends before his marriage ended and never cheated, had his chance after separating and the one was single at the same time - nothing.

He knows we are dating, he is my "boyfriend" and knows it and we are exclusive - I have asked outright before we slept together if he was dating anyone else. He's not a player - the farthest thing from it. He's not working all of the angles seeing who will let him in their pants. This guy HAS no game. Really.
 
#60 ·
I have a love/hate relationship with this topic...I love talking about it and all the differnt variations of 'friendship' that are involved. But I hate it because it touches a raw nerve for me. Too much past experience with men and their female friends (who really never were friends, they all seemed to be phuck-buddies, exes of some sort, or that wild girl they once had a threesome with).
 
#94 ·
I think that's where I am as well. I really wanted to believe that men and women could be friends. But guys who I thought were friends would one day at some point accuse me of being a user because they wanted to date me and I wanted to be just friends. Never mind that they agreed me at some point that we were just friends.

And now that I have married and divorced, I know the problems that can arise when women get too chummy with your husband, even when sex is not involved and you're willing to be friends with the woman who wants to be friends with your husband.
 
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