Talk About Marriage banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 43 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Wife and I are in our late 30's, together for six, and married for two come this December, no children.

In July wife's mother was hospitalized, and we made the decision to move to so wife could help take care of mother. I lined up a job loaded up our house and I moved our stuff to the in-laws homes several hundred miles away, a few weeks before my wife. Later in August mother in law and wife joined us.

Mother in law and my wife fought every day about every possible thing and I saw my wife sinking into a deep depression. October 20th I moved myself and the wife into an apartment about 20 miles away from the in laws figuring the distance would help.

October 24th, wife is acting incredibly disrespectful and hostile to me, I probe to find out whats going on and I get the "I love you but I'm not in love with you speech." Red flags go up because I deliberately gone out of my way to be the supportive husband the past several months. I notice the wife acting suspicious on the computer trying to hide windows from me when I walk by.

Thursday evening my heart falls out of my chest. I dump the server logs from the router and find that she has been chatting on a fetish site. More so her "master" has instructed her to document their conversations and their one meeting thus far where she exquisitely detailed the oral sex she had performed on him in the back of his truck. To make matters even better she had even posted naked pictures of herself on the website, though thankfully probably no one but me and her doctor could identify her from them.

After reading the profile for a few minutes and their meetings, I literally went into shock. When I confronted her I think my voice was muted - she at first denied it and then began to weep violently.

She said "I guess I should get packed up and leave", and I told her no it's late and we continued to talk through the night. Eventually in the night she told me she no longer wanted to be married and I deserved someone better - she had her brother pick her up that Friday morning and take her back to the mother's house.


I eventually cry myself to sleep and am woken up late Friday afternoon by a call from her. She tells me she has made the worst mistake ever and does want to be married to me and ask me if it's too late. I say no but if you come back, it has to be complete honesty, no contact with anyone outside of certain friends and family, marriage counseling, and church. I tell her to sleep on it to be certain and she calls me early the next morning to make sure I will pick her up.

She comes back and we go through and delete emails and profiles, and I have the joy of reading through the sickening details. At some point we go into a hysterical bonding thing which paused briefly and has resumed again within the last few days. I make her inform the other guy there can be no contact, and I left him a message telling him never to contact her again.

The first two weeks went surprisingly well but we hit a set back when browsing through her phone logs and Facebook I discovered a two month emotional affair with thousands of text and hours of calls everyday (she apparently ended this without telling me that friday, which is confirmed by her phone logs).

I've really had a hard time with the emotional affair as I only have her details of it, as by this time wife has sanitized the phone. She should have disclosed it to me under the conditions of returning, but she has had absolutely zero contact with guy since returning except for the no-contact letter.

She is completely remorseful, apologetic, and willing to work on our marriage. Our communication has improved, and I've learned some painful things about myself and things that happened with her extended family. Next week she is going to get a psychiatric evaluation because we both believe (in hindsight) that she was in a deep depression before we even moved.

Recovery is early, but going well so far - I still have nightmares, and may even go see a psych myself I'm normally very self controlled and my emotions have been all over the place. The first two weeks I had what felt like panic attacks but haven't noticed them in the past two weeks.

I think we would be further along in rebuilding trust if she had divulged the emotional affair to me - but she didn't. I have made it clear to her if she has any voluntary contact with either of them we are done-permanent like. Which is not to be threatening she just seems to do better when she has clearly articulated boundaries and complete understanding of my expectations.

Any tips on letting go resentments and mental images? I have forgiven her but want to get on with the forgetting!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,291 Posts
Sorry you are here.

I think it will take quite a while for you to forgive her.

Take one step at a time.

She needs some serious counseling. You need IC.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,931 Posts
I'm sorry you were exposed to those details so suddenly. That's going to take some time to heal. A trained therapist is going to best person to help you with that. It's very specific. If you find yourself obsessing too much, consider medication.

Serious counseling for her. Definitely.

Know that you did the right thing when you found out and you are a road to recovery.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thank you for the comments. We've done one marriage counselor visit, will do more after her consultation with psych. We are also doing some of the Marriage Builders things, and are together pretty much every waking moment aside from my full time work and her part time work.

I believe she is being honest and open with me, and is committed to doing the work we need to. I have the passwords to everything and we deleted an email account, and changed her phone number.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
17,771 Posts
There are many here who are a great help. Sorry for what has happened to you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
982 Posts
This R sounds very weak and susceptible to failing. Perhaps you just haven't filled in the details because I've seen very few demands.

-Has a no contact letter been written?

-Has she completely been exposed?

-Do you have passwords to all emails and phone?

-Has she been tested for STDs?

-What boundaries have you put in place to affair proof your marriage?

You can take her to marriage counseling every Saturday, and mass every Sunday but if she doesn't get new boundaries and get to the bottom of why she cheated not a damn thing is gonna change and it'll only repeat itself.

I've read absolutely no consequence shes suffered in all of this.

So far she made her decision to stay in the marriage and waltzed back into the marriage after an affair and all she had to do was cry a little bit. Also shes not truly invested in R because she is still lying and hiding things like her EA

You let this stand, you're only diminishing yourself, losing her respect(whether she knows it or not) and inviting another affair.

If fire didn't burn a lot more people would keep playing with it.

Also if you've forgiven her already than this R is on even shakier ground, especially since that forgiveness is false. You can't forgive someone properly if you don't know what you're forgiving(her EA and I'm betting several other things).

Also

Forgiveness needs to be something earned, through love, respect, and loyalty. Many waywards have been years past DDay, and still haven't earned it, yet they still strive for it every day.

Its not meant to be given out just so you can make yourself feel better about the situation. You drastically decreased the value of your forgiveness when you did this, and also decreased the severity of her actions on the fabric of the marriage.

This R does not look good, you need to take charge, get all the skeletons out of the closet and quite frankly start over.

If she was still lying to you from the start of R, then that whole recovery period is false and voided.

Get the full truth, start from scratch.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
9,914 Posts
I would be very careful of your wife giving you a false R. Especially be on the watch for a burner phone that she'll be using to contact her master.

I think you need to go after the master and expose him to the fetish web site as someone who cheats with married women.

You need to do this as part of reclaiming your wife's respect. She surrender herself to this looser. You need to throw serious blow back to him to show your wife you are the stronger man and that her so called master isn't the stronger.

Is suspect when she left that time she offered herself to him full time and was rejected.

1. On the fetish website - go there make a post saying "I'm xxx's husband and I'm here to expose YYY as a scumbag that cheated with my wife." tell your wife after you have done this.

2. If you have the guys info - find if he is married or has a GF -expose his cheating to her.

This may seen like you being nasty, but it vital your wife sees you as taking down the OM master.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,176 Posts
Dear carolinadreams,

Time to stop dreaming:

Wife and I are in our late 30's, together for six, and married for two come this December, no children.

In July wife's mother was hospitalized, and we made the decision to move to so wife could help take care of mother. I lined up a job loaded up our house and I moved our stuff to the in-laws homes several hundred miles away, a few weeks before my wife. Later in August mother in law and wife joined us. [Have you asked her what she was doing and who she was with during that time? If you do, whatever she tells you, demand that she take a polygraph test.]

Mother in law and my wife fought every day about every possible thing and I saw my wife sinking into a deep depression. October 20th I moved myself and the wife into an apartment about 20 miles away from the in laws figuring the distance would help.

October 24th, wife is acting incredibly disrespectful and hostile to me, I probe to find out whats going on and I get the "I love you but I'm not in love with you speech." Red flags go up because I deliberately gone out of my way to be the supportive husband the past several months. I notice the wife acting suspicious on the computer trying to hide windows from me when I walk by.

Thursday evening my heart falls out of my chest. I dump the server logs from the router and find that she has been chatting on a fetish site. More so her "master" has instructed her to document their conversations and their one meeting thus far where she exquisitely detailed the oral sex she had performed on him in the back of his truck. To make matters even better she had even posted naked pictures of herself on the website, though thankfully probably no one but me and her doctor could identify her from them. [Have you quizzed her about the full details of her "fetish" experience? Again, demand a polygraph test.]

After reading the profile for a few minutes and their meetings, I literally went into shock. When I confronted her I think my voice was muted - she at first denied it and then began to weep violently.

She said "I guess I should get packed up and leave", and I told her no it's late and we continued to talk through the night. Eventually in the night she told me she no longer wanted to be married and I deserved someone better - she had her brother pick her up that Friday morning and take her back to the mother's house.


I eventually cry myself to sleep and am woken up late Friday afternoon by a call from her. She tells me she has made the worst mistake ever and does want to be married to me and ask me if it's too late. I say no [ you should have said, "I don't know," you let her off the hook way to easy] but if you come back, it has to be complete honesty, no contact with anyone outside of certain friends and family, marriage counseling, and church. I tell her to sleep on it to be certain and she calls me early the next morning to make sure I will pick her up.

She comes back and we go through and delete emails and profiles, and I have the joy of reading through the sickening details. At some point we go into a hysterical bonding thing which paused briefly and has resumed again within the last few days. I make her inform the other guy there can be no contact, and I left him a message telling him never to contact her again. [Bad move to let her contact the OM. How do you know what she told him?]

The first two weeks went surprisingly well but we hit a set back when browsing through her phone logs and Facebook I discovered a two month emotional affair with thousands of text and hours of calls everyday (she apparently ended this without telling me that friday, which is confirmed by her phone logs). [And you still believe she wants to be yours exclusively? Guess we know how why "dream" is in your user name.]

I've really had a hard time with the emotional affair as I only have her details of it, as by this time wife has sanitized the phone. [You only had a "really hard time"? You should have kicked her out again. Man, are you an easy touch.] She should have disclosed it to me under the conditions of returning, but she has had absolutely zero contact with guy since returning except for the no-contact letter. [How do you know this? Can you account for her time every minute of every day? Don't tell me you actually trust her already.]

She is completely remorseful, apologetic, and willing to work on our marriage. [That's what she says. Again, ask her to take a polygraph test and watch how she tries to squirm out of it (or starts revealing other stuff she's done).] Our communication has improved, and I've learned some painful things about myself and things that happened with her extended family. Next week she is going to get a psychiatric evaluation because we both believe (in hindsight) that she was in a deep depression before we even moved. [Oh great, so now you've accepted her excuse for cheating -- she was "depressed."]

Recovery is early, but going well so far [how would you even know?] - I still have nightmares, and may even go see a psych myself I'm normally very self controlled and my emotions have been all over the place. The first two weeks I had what felt like panic attacks but haven't noticed them in the past two weeks.

I think we would be further along in rebuilding trust if she had divulged the emotional affair to me - but she didn't. [You haven't even begun to rebuild trust. In fact, all that has happened so far in your so-called "recovery" is that you've found out about more betrayals.] I have made it clear to her if she has any voluntary contact with either of them we are done-permanent like. Which is not to be threatening she just seems to do better when she has clearly articulated boundaries and complete understanding of my expectations. [I doubt that you've made anything clear to her other than that she's going to have to be much more careful the next time she steps out on you.]

Any tips on letting go resentments and mental images? I have forgiven her but want to get on with the forgetting! [Read some of the other threads on TAM. It will takes years before the images and resent begin to fade, and that's assuming your WW is really committed to making your marriage work and is capable of it.]
carolinadreams, it's time to stop dreaming. You forgave someone that still hasn't fully come clean about what she's done. And the whole "you deserve someone better" routine is the oldest trick in the book to coax a sucker back into a relationship.

I'm not saying your marriage can't be fixed but not the way you're doing it. You're moving much to fast on the "forgiveness" track and much to slow on the "what else have you done" track. Until you have the whole picture, how can you forgive her or even know if you want to?

Take a step back, draw your breath and start dealing with your situation as it really is rather than as you wish it to be. You'll end up better for it and maybe so will your WW. If you want to have children some day, ask yourself if you really want to have them with someone like your WW. Better to pull the plug now because, once children enter the picture, you'll be in a much worse place if your WW ever does something like this again.

Good luck.

P.S. The psychological exam is a good idea. Make sure she discloses her "fetish" interests and make sure you get to see the results. My guess is that your dealing with more than "depression." More likely, bipolar disorder, which if so will make your marriage much less likely to succeed (check out Bipolar Infidelity: Discover Causes, Cures and Scary Statistics and Bipolar Infidelity*|*Bipolar Lifeline).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
This R sounds very weak and susceptible to failing. Perhaps you just haven't filled in the details because I've seen very few demands.

-Has a no contact letter been written?

-Has she completely been exposed?

-Do you have passwords to all emails and phone?

-Has she been tested for STDs?

-What boundaries have you put in place to affair proof your marriage?

You can take her to marriage counseling every Saturday, and mass every Sunday but if she doesn't get new boundaries and get to the bottom of why she cheated not a damn thing is gonna change and it'll only repeat itself.

I've read absolutely no consequence shes suffered in all of this.

So far she made her decision to stay in the marriage and waltzed back into the marriage after an affair and all she had to do was cry a little bit. Also shes not truly invested in R because she is still lying and hiding things like her EA

You let this stand, you're only diminishing yourself, losing her respect(whether she knows it or not) and inviting another affair.

If fire didn't burn a lot more people would keep playing with it.

Also if you've forgiven her already than this R is on even shakier ground, especially since that forgiveness is false. You can't forgive someone properly if you don't know what you're forgiving(her EA and I'm betting several other things).

Also

Forgiveness needs to be something earned, through love, respect, and loyalty. Many waywards have been years past DDay, and still haven't earned it, yet they still strive for it every day.

Its not meant to be given out just so you can make yourself feel better about the situation. You drastically decreased the value of your forgiveness when you did this, and also decreased the severity of her actions on the fabric of the marriage.

This R does not look good, you need to take charge, get all the skeletons out of the closet and quite frankly start over.

If she was still lying to you from the start of R, then that whole recovery period is false and voided.

Get the full truth, start from scratch.
No contacts have been sent from me and from her to the out of state text/chat guy, and the intown guy. The intown guy sounded frightened (I left a very specific message the night I found out and my ******* accent comes out strong when I'm angry).

She has been exposed to her mother, my mother, and a few of our friends and family, who can actually over positive reinforcement to her.

I have complete access to all emails and facebooks, she knows and adknowledges explicitly that any innapropriate contact and we are done - period.

As far as remorse and consequences - she's cried till she's made herself sick more times than I can count in the past month. In her words the chat with the out of state guy wasn't as significant, she understands now why it was more signficant to me in a way since it was so time consuming and the volume.

I understand where your recommendations of caution and mistrust are coming from. Trust has to be rebuilt from the ground up - she is not fighting me on anything not making any excuses and cooperating as best as she is able. I monitor all phone activity and internet usage diligently.

The chances of her having a burner phone are slim to none. What my wife did was foul but I believe she has a sincere desire to repair our marriage, make ammends, and never go there again. I know she fully understands if anything similar ever happens again I will walk away forever.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,234 Posts
If you believe your wife is sincere, that's all that matters here. None of us are in your home, so none of us know what the intricate details of your relationship are. It's good that you put the fear of God in the one guy. That's always a plus...AND if your wife heard you talk to him, it might have turned her on to you, which isn't bad either.

My wife had a 5 year long affair. The one thing about this sh-t is this: WS's will typically trickle truth about this stuff initially. She's afraid to tell you everything cuz she's afraid you will walk. What YOU need to do is figure out YOUR breaking point - the deal breaker. For me...it wasn't about WHAT she did as much as lying to cover it up. It's the lying that was the "continuation" of the affair in my eyes.

Reconciliation isn't easy. Not in the least f'ng bit. You're in for a wicked roller coaster and if you're squeamish in the tiniest bit, then get out of line and go to the kiddie section.

Stick to your ultimatum and always remind her that ANYthing...the smallest "little" screw up...the seemingly insignificant lie...is when you walk. The strongest position in a negotiation is the person who is ready, willing and able to walk away from the deal.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,984 Posts
How long was she cheating ?

Forgiveness given easily and immediately is not respected or valued. Your best proof for this is her hiding the EA(Was it only an EA ? How do you know ? ). She knew you wouldn't leave her even if you found out. So she took the risk of deleting all the evidence.(You can recover texts in a iphone easily..). I think you don't have the truth of all her affairs.

And please don't have kids with her in the next few months or even years..You should seriously consider divorce since you don't have kids. 90% of the R scenarios on this site happen because the couple have kids. Can you see yourself trusting this woman with your kids lives(if you have them ) ? Can you trust her with your financial future ? Read around TAM, and we see many BS getting stuck in terrible marriages because of kids or because they cannot separate for financial reasons. The stay at home parents usually ends up getting the custody and the home while the one that was cheated upon moves out. Many wish they had dumped their WS the first time they cheated...

You don't suddenly go out and have affairs..While you were busting your ass off for her and her family, she went around cheating on you with whoever she can. And it was not a drunken hookup. She
repeatedly indulged in deceitful behavior while she knew it would hurt you. She looked at you face everday but still went on to cheat on you. She just did not give a f*ck about you. It is guilt that made her ask you for forgiveness but she is far too detached from you emotionally than you realize. You will find out soon enough. And she was caught!! Your biggest clue to get out. Does that tell you how long this would have gone on if you had not caught her ?

She might have issues that you might not be able to help her with in the long term. She need not be evil, she just needs to be weak to destroy you again. Or maybe she will get better at hiding stuff and you will never find it out.

Does she financially contribute to the marriage ? Please get a post-nup immediately.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
490 Posts
Sorry, but all the guys here are right and you did go for the R way too quick. I say this from experience. You are going to need a Pro to talk to and work on your self image. Good luck and keep us updated. David
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Sounds like she's in to S&M is that something your into? She might not be fulfilled if she doesn't have that sort of lifestyle. She does seem remorseful, but that's was some horrid stuff she did.
I think it's possible your not getting the whole truth. I would give her a chance to come clean and make sure she knows if you see any more lieing it's divorce.
Also even if you try you might not be able to forgive her, if this is the case it's going to be unhealthy if you do not to get a divorce.
Posted via Mobile Device
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
I lined up a job loaded up our house and I moved our stuff to the in-laws homes several hundred miles away
Hi, welcome to the doormat club. Coming on TAM, I'm coming to terms that I'm a grade A doormat (which is helpful). The things we do & the ultimate gesture of ingratitude we receive.:mad:


At some point we go into a hysterical bonding thing which paused briefly and has resumed again within the last few days.
After D-day, I experience off and on "hysterical" bonding. I think that is a common reaction.

A month out, that has finally stopped for me (well, tomorrow is another day).

Next week she is going to get a psychiatric evaluation because we both believe (in hindsight) that she was in a deep depression before we even moved.
Just don't let it be the scapegoat for the A's. She made a deliberate choice - not some alter ego. Plenty of people have severe depression and do not commit such acts.


Any tips on letting go resentments and mental images? I have forgiven her but want to get on with the forgetting!
Sounds like you might still have truths yet to unearth (or rather that she should offer up). Do you believe there is more? If you believe there is more, it will be hard to let go of the resentments.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
5 Month Update:
We are doing well!
We talk about things as we need to, there is still crying here and there and some moments of anger (on part for what happened, for herself for her choices).

Boundaries particularlly with family are firmly set, it's more or less came out that her mother is extremely narciccistic, and my wife was giving too much credit to her mother's input. It hadn't ever occurred to her that what her mother was telling her could be horribly wrong. Found out her mother and brother had been undermining our relationship from our engagement. Long and short unless the wife twists herself up into knots to satisfy her mothers narcissistic ego, she's a horrible person and daughter.

Solution: her family will be treated cordially from a distance, and I won't have much to do with them barring an epiphany - she's been more or less cut off by her mother and brother.

It came out she had some childhood sexual abuse and that is being addressed in counseling.

Boundaries are all firmly in place, she understands my love is unconditional but my continued presence in the marriage is very conditional.

1. Complete Transparency
2. Boundaries (no flirting, appropriate work relationships, no texting, no separate emails, facebooks, no GNO's - though this was never an issue)
3. Regularly meeting with the Psychatrist for the forseeable future
4. Agressively rebuffing any inappropriate contacts, criticisms etc.
5. Attending church with me
6. Exercise and decent nutrition

She's doing well, she is a kind person that let depression and outside influences take her to a place she should never have gone too.

I don't excuse anything she did, it sucked, it damaged her probably as much as me. She understands our marriage is contigent upon being present and being a partner. I'm still coping with my grief, though its certainly less frequent and managable for the most part. She's definitely begun to re-cultivate her empathy outside the influence of the worst parts of her family.

I'm in the gym 6-days a week, told the wife I wan't to be display ready if she gets wacky again - and to never take me for granted again.

I have to be careful about reading TAM sometimes, I can get angry or upset for other people and it can color my emotions for sometime after.

I continue to monitor phone, email, etc. It's not with the same frequency as before but it's a fairly frequent check in. It feels like a normal part of life and I almost think all married people should do it. It prevent's the accumulation of any incremental bad choices!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I entertain some of the lighter aspects of it with her, I've got limits. As she reaquirred sanity - I think she understood that somethings are better as fantasies and the actuality can be dissapointing.

She had a lot of her things intertwined in her head with guilt, and thats getting healed. She knows too as long as it doesn't involve another person, or degredation I'll listen to what's in her head without shaming her or criticizing.

I'm very straight arrow, and I think before she was afraid to bring certain things to me for fear of rejection.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,788 Posts
I'm in the same boat, we are going on 3 years of R and its actually reassuring that my FWW can come to me now with out fear of being judged or critized about her sexual needs.

I really believe sex is the glue in keeping a marriage healthy and meeting each others needs.

Un like you I'm not such of a straight arrow so I however enjoy the "openness/submission" my wife has to offer. And with that comes a great resposabliity!

It can never be stated enough in how important boundries are in a marriage, I think your thread realy makes a point in brings out how important they really are for every aspect of an individual.

I have found that IC has help us more so then MC.
MC didn't really make a difference for us, but as emotioanlly healthier poeple me a Mrs. the-guy seem to work better.My point is when two poeple are emotionaly healthier and strong as an idividual, then the spouse thing seems to be better. IC works more specifically on the individual and I find that it rups off in being a better spouse.
 
1 - 20 of 43 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top