[exoskeleton]

Hello,

I've never been on a website like this before, but I feel I need some real-life help.

We've been together 5 years, married 3 and live together - We've had our ups and downs like any relationship - but recently it's happening more and more frequently.

It's hard to put into words how I feel.. It's just a general "will this ever change" feeling. I don't doubt that we've both changed and have very different opinions. I'm very creative (I'm a web designer) and love life - romantic sop - will do anything to make her happy. The sort of guy who would work for £3 an hour as long as it's doing what I love.

But she's very different, she'll work a billion hours a week doing what she hates because the money's good. Her life consists of wake up, work, eat, sleep - and that's just something I could never do.

I always try to do romantic things such as propose walks, candle lit dinners, dancing etc.. and it all just goes hideously unappreciated. I keep trying to say things to her, but she has so much on her plate that If i moan to her that she won't come on a walk with me - I just feel selfish.

I don't doubt that we're growing apart, I don't doubt that she's 'too busy' to spend time with me.. But I don't know if this is something I can work at - Or will things ever change?

It feels like when you're in love with that girl at school and she doesn't even know you exist - except we're married..

 

[Mavash.]

Each of us have our own priorities and things we value. Some value families. Some value careers or money. Wise ones find balance.

Your wife is one who values money over relationships. And unless she gets a wake up call it's likely to continue.

So what you do is stop all the romantic gestures, stop talking, and read up on the 180. See as long as she knows she's got you keeping the home fires burning she will feel no need to change. You're already 'caught' and therefore she is free to do as she pleases.

Find a hobby, make some friends, start going out again, don't just sit at home and pout. Make her wonder where you are while she's working those billion hours. She's taking you for granted and unless she's got you over a barrel somehow it's easily fixable.

 

[SimplyAmorous]

Mavash said: Each of us have our own priorities and things we value. Some value families. Some value careers or money. Wise ones find balance.

Your wife is one who values money over relationships. And unless she gets a wake up call it's likely to continue.

Mavash said it it all right there. How very true it IS.

You are the Hopeless Romantic Type... I get you....so am I....it's never been about money, but our passions... and the togetherness , sharing our dreams & our time together hand in hand.

You married a female Work-a-holic climbing up a social ladder.. I know being the way I am, I could never be married to that on the male end.

Yeah, try that 180, if she doesn't notice a thing...this doesn't STIR her emotions to what is happening in the relationship - to coming closer to you on her own.... I think you got a true blue incompatibility issue on your hands.

Here is a thread I found on google with the list spelled out (keep in mind some of this is referring to infidelity ), >>

Plan A vs. 180 Plan - Marriage Builders® Forums

180

180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person. I would highly suggest that any new BS begin these behaviors as soon as possible. I am convinced that if I had implemented them, I would still be married. In retrospect, I did everything besides 180. I looked pathetic. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive. (Making it)

So here's the list:

Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

No frequent phone calls.

Don't point out "good points" in marriage.

Don't follow her/him around the house.

Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.

Don't ask for reassurances.

Don't buy or give gifts.

Don't schedule dates together.

Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in
your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.

Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue?
No matter how much you want to!

If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!

Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back.

Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!

Don't be overly enthusiastic.

Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting
more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!

Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"

Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."

 

[turnera]

There's a thing called PEA chemicals. It's what your body gets flowing so that you stay excited to be with your partner, so you can procreate and stay together long enough to get the kid safely along (think caveman days). These chemicals are what make you feel high, excited, in love. But they run out after 3 or 4 years, and then you're just left with each other. So you then have to replace it with real affection. And that can take work.

The most important book you can read is His Needs Her Needs. It tells how to NOT Love Bust (upset) your wife and to meet her top Emotional Needs. If you can do those two things - keep her happy and not upset her - she WILL be happy with you and want to make YOU happy. I hope you will read it.

 

[turnera]

I always try to do romantic things such as propose walks, candle lit dinners, dancing etc.. and it all just goes hideously unappreciated. I keep trying to say things to her, but she has so much on her plate that If i moan to her that she won't come on a walk with me - I just feel selfish.

Now that you've been together this long, those things are taken for granted, AND they make you look weak, like a beta male (look it up). What she likely wants now is a man sure of himself, who doesn't wrap his whole life around her, but who will come in and sweep her off her feet - not with romance necessarily but with passion, surprise, mystery. To replace the PEA chemicals.

Example, I've been married 30+ years. But I will still surprise H with things I know matter to him. Of course sex is #1, as it is for most men. So if he's out of town and I pick him up at the airport at midnight, I may be wearing nothing but a robe, if you get what I mean.

Find things to do that would have her telling her friends about it.

Hint: that's not necessarily going to be something to do with sex. You need to learn her better to find those things. One way you can do that is for both of you to fill out the Love Buster and Emotional Needs questionnaires.

 

[Liam]

Most women would be delighted to be receiving all those romantic gestures you mentioned, so no wonder you feel deflated. I agree with Mavash that you should take more time to enjoy what you like doing, instead of always trying to include your wife.

The way she is going might well lead to stress and burnout somewhere down the line, and I bet she'll want your support and attention then.

 

[Plan 9 from OS]

Exo, are you sure that this growing apart has been gradual or has it been more of a sudden thing? Was there a point you can trace back to where your wife started working more and more hours at work? Has she suddenly grown cold and distant and can you pinpoint this to a specific day/week or month? It's possible that your wife may be cheating on you. Do yourself a favor and look into it if you haven't already, because if nothing else you can at least rule it out while you try to figure out how to get your marriage back on the right track.

 

[Shiksa]

Does she feel all the financial weight on her shoulders? You said that you would work for little money if you loved what you were doing. Are you pulling your weight, or is she supporting you guys? While doing what you love is very important, one of the main needs of women is security.

 

[turnera]

Oh, good point. Women have to respect their men. And one of most women's key Emotional Needs is financial security.

 

[Acorn]

Exo - if you take a few minutes to reflect honestly, was she different when you were dating, or are you only realizing now that she's always been busy like this in one way or another?

Turnera talked about your wife's brain chemicals in the beginning of the relationship, but they also affect you, and maybe you are only now seeing something that has been there the whole time.

 

[Ten_year_hubby]

It feels like when you're in love with that girl at school and she doesn't even know you exist - except we're married..

I think you've got it nailed here and why exactly would you expect anything different? I remember those days and I remember how I felt and what I did. If she was too busy on the day I picked for us, I said "How about tomorrow?". If she was preoccupied at the time I came by, I said,"OK, I'll come back later (like in an hour)."

I learned real quick that moaning got me nowhere, in fact I observed that this behavior only pushed her farther away so I quit doing it. I held on to incredible optimism, I never ran out of energy for the chase and I never took "no" for an answer.

All of us had different life experiences. If this is not what you did when you were 16 I would humbly suggest that you start doing something like this now. Without a doubt the natural way of things is for couples to grow apart. The only way to counteract this is for you to keep doing the things that brought you together in the first place

 

[turnera]

Another book you need to read that will change your life forever, is No More Mr Nice Guy.

 

[exoskeleton]

Thank you everyone for your feedback - I really appreciate it.

I like the idea of this "180", just getting on with my life (as if I were single) and see if she picks up. It gives me good excuse to sort my own life out before I work on our relationship - nothing too major, just a little lazy

However, quite a lot of you are suggesting these 'mind games'; tricking her into feeling guilty. I don't like that. Why be in a relationship if it's based on tricking her into 'liking' me?

And being the 'alpha male' as you put it.. I fully agree that you have to change as a person to make a relationship work, but acting like someone you're not? I'm a computer geek who has a few close friends and get shy at parties - I'm not going to act like some macho d*ck to impress a woman. Otherwise I would be with some hot blonde - that's not me.

I'm going to try the 180 thing, not to the extreme stated, but just getting on with my own stuff - if she realises we need work, great! If she doesn't.. I guess it'll take something a little more serious.

 

[turnera]

Alpha male doesn't mean you start bumping chests and swilling beer.

It just means that you know what you want in life, you don't back down when someone guilts you into doing what you don't want, and you don't get scared of upsetting your wife.

Read the book NMMNG. And don't try 180 until you have actually read what it means, cos you will get it wrong and make things worse. Look it up first.

 

[sinnister]

Seems like too much romance to me.

My wife is more like yours in that respect. It works for us though because I'm as romantic as bird poop.

 

[turnera]

There's another thing to remember which is that we each have our own love language (read The 5 Love Languages). The way I receive love from DH is for him to take care of things around the house, because that's what matters most to me. Because I grew up in a crap house. He grew up unloved, so his main language is to have someone give him gifts.

For years, he'd buy me perfume and clothes and jewelry...while the house collapsed around us. I just was so unhappy that he wouldn't fix the house, I couldn't stand all the crap he wasted money on.

But then, I'd buy him new tools, thinking it would make it easier to fix the house! Of course, he felt more and more like a servant, and unloved.

Nowadays, I give him cologne and clothes. This year, he gave me a new weedeater. We're both feeling heard...and loved.

Maybe romance isn't her language. It's not mine and I can't STAND for DH to romance me. Fill out the questionnaires.

 

[exoskeleton]

The only way you have helped is it's made me realise my problems aren't so bad.

I'd rather a messy relationship like mine than a chauvinistic test tube one.

 

[turnera]

The only way you have helped is it's made me realise my problems aren't so bad.

I'd rather a messy relationship like mine than a chauvinistic test tube one.

Wow.

Well, ok then.

Have a great life.

 

[Emerald]

Hello,

I've never been on a website like this before, but I feel I need some real-life help.

We've been together 5 years, married 3 and live together - We've had our ups and downs like any relationship - but recently it's happening more and more frequently.

It's hard to put into words how I feel.. It's just a general "will this ever change" feeling. I don't doubt that we've both changed and have very different opinions. I'm very creative (I'm a web designer) and love life - romantic sop - will do anything to make her happy. The sort of guy who would work for £3 an hour as long as it's doing what I love.

But she's very different, she'll work a billion hours a week doing what she hates because the money's good. Her life consists of wake up, work, eat, sleep - and that's just something I could never do.

I always try to do romantic things such as propose walks, candle lit dinners, dancing etc.. and it all just goes hideously unappreciated. I keep trying to say things to her, but she has so much on her plate that If i moan to her that she won't come on a walk with me - I just feel selfish.

I don't doubt that we're growing apart, I don't doubt that she's 'too busy' to spend time with me.. But I don't know if this is something I can work at - Or will things ever change?

It feels like when you're in love with that girl at school and she doesn't even know you exist - except we're married..

Any co-workers that she is close to?

 

[Trying2figureitout]

OP..its you

Quit doing any of the romantic stuff (Total waste right now)... You need a very DEEP look in the mirror

Start on a quest to divest yourself from your wife and become a better man for you.

You are too attached and too needy. Once you re-calibrate yourself THEN state what you need from her as your wife. I did and my wife will respond in time.

You need to become a better man before you stand up to your wife. You also have to get to the point
you are not afraid of saying anything to her nor afraid of losing her. Operate from the high ground and a
position of STRENGTH.

Quit being weak.

Right now you are a needy kid in her eyes. Grow up in her eyes.
Become the leader of your household.

Your wife is in that role now. She doesn't like it and is waiting for you to DO YOUR JOB.
THEN you can tell her to do hers and make time for you to be a wife to you.

That's the way it works.