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I have been reviewing and reading all the information about no contact and 180 and such and I have come to the conclusion that if a spouse really needs to be watched over and no contact letters need to be sent and emails have to be watched - is it really worth being in a relationship with this person? It undermines the whole fabric of a relationship - trust! If you can't trust the one you are with and need to watch over them - how much are they worth to your relationship? Might as well let them go. It is like trying to keep a naughty child from misbehaving - you can't and it isn't worth it.
 

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Every situation is unique. If the WS is truly remorseful and makes significant changes in his/her life to ensure the BS that it's crystal clear transparency from here on out, then I think it could be worth the fight. However, if the WS is not fully committed to rebuilding trust, i.e. by not volunteering information about whereabouts, correspondence and still wants to have "me" time or "alone" time by going out with friends after the betrayal - then no it isn't worth the time or effort to try to reconcile. JMHO.
 

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Let me use an analogy. (And I'm speaking as a Devi's Advocate here)

At a certain point in life, the woman in your life is going to go through menopause. She'll be cranky, have hot and cold flashes, be distant, moody, sexually unresponsive, less then loving, etc.

Are you planning on dumping her because 'she's not worth it'? Of course not. You give her time to get over this 'illness' in her life.

The idea about watching (For a while) is to allow your spouse to mentally and morally recenter themselves. They are, the theory goes, NOT in their right mind and making lousy decsions...but this too shall pass.

They call it 'The Fog' and a REPENTENT spouse will take a bit to get out of it...and the BS will take even longer to regain that trust.

IF your spouse is repenetent, then the 'checking' is more for YOU, the betrayed, not them.

If it does NOT get better, then that is also information you need to boot their butts out of your life.

But it is a moral stance to give the person time to GET BETTER. If they choose not to...
 

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I have been reviewing and reading all the information about no contact and 180 and such and I have come to the conclusion that if a spouse really needs to be watched over and no contact letters need to be sent and emails have to be watched - is it really worth being in a relationship with this person? It undermines the whole fabric of a relationship - trust! If you can't trust the one you are with and need to watch over them - how much are they worth to your relationship? Might as well let them go. It is like trying to keep a naughty child from misbehaving - you can't and it isn't worth it.
I agree. They are not worth it and based on many posts here, many people who think they are in a good reconciliation end up finding out the cheater is still in contact with the OW or still cheating in some way.

Marriage is about trust.

One betrayed women here asked me if I thought that my husband cheated because I gave him no structure.

Well, my spouse is not a six year old and I am not his mother who needs to structure his time so he grows into a responsible adult.

He should already be a responsible adult at his age.

Personally, IMO, most people are just wasting their time with a cheater.
 

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My wife would agree with you. Immediately after Dday she did the checking my emails and such that is perfectly normal, but when I offered her all my passwords she refused them - still does to this day. She says she is not going to live that way, that if I am going to cheat again she can't stop me but that sooner or later I'll get caught and in that scenario there is no third chance. Fundamentally she's right and I admire her strength and confidence to be willing to live that way. I also appreciate the trust and responsibility it puts on me. Were it me though - were the tables reversed - I'd be a spying, checking, PI fool. But that's just me.
 

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My wife would agree with you. Immediately after Dday she did the checking my emails and such that is perfectly normal, but when I offered her all my passwords she refused them - still does to this day. She says she is not going to live that way, that if I am going to cheat again she can't stop me but that sooner or later I'll get caught and in that scenario there is no third chance. Fundamentally she's right and I admire her strength and confidence to be willing to live that way. I also appreciate the trust and responsibility it puts on me. Were it me though - were the tables reversed - I'd be a spying, checking, PI fool. But that's just me.
In the beginning checking up on them is sort of a comfort for the BS, I don't check up on my wife as much as I used to although some days when I am feeling insecure or have triggered I will. She knows this and understands it is something I must do to feel better but I can't see checking up on her forever sooner or later you just have to let it go. Besides if you really think about it anyone who really knows what they are doing and are real careful could cheat with multiple people and you would never know. Lucky for us everyone gets lazy and complacent sooner or later and then they get caught.
 

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I agree. They are not worth it and based on many posts here, many people who think they are in a good reconciliation end up finding out the cheater is still in contact with the OW or still cheating in some way.

Marriage is about trust.

One betrayed women here asked me if I thought that my husband cheated because I gave him no structure.

Well, my spouse is not a six year old and I am not his mother who needs to structure his time so he grows into a responsible adult.

He should already be a responsible adult at his age.

Personally, IMO, most people are just wasting their time with a cheater.
there might be something to this. For example, at one point my fiancé told me that he would respond to his EA's text message anyway that I wanted.

I took his offer and told him exactly what to write, which he did. On an all woman's message board, I was chastised and told that even though he made that offer, it was not mine to take.

One thing I felt certain about, was that if I passed on the offer, then I could never become upset with how he went about his relationship with her.

On another occasion, he offered to de friend her on Facebook. I immediately said yes, because if I ever saw that he wrote on her FB wall after turning his down his offer, well, could I really get mad about that.

So one could interpret providing structure to mean to taking an active role in how to manage relationships and not being shy on what you really want, particularly when your partner is making offers.
 

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there might be something to this. For example, at one point my fiancé told me that he would respond to his EA's text message anyway that I wanted.

I took his offer and told him exactly what to write, which he did. On an all woman's message board, I was chastised and told that even though he made that offer, it was not mine to take.

One thing I felt certain about, was that if I passed on the offer, then I could never become upset with how he went about his relationship with her.

On another occasion, he offered to de friend her on Facebook. I immediately said yes, because if I ever saw that he wrote on her FB wall after turning his down his offer, well, could I really get mad about that.

So one could interpret providing structure to mean to taking an active role in how to manage relationships and not being shy on what you really want, particularly when your partner is making offers.
Here's the problem with this type of thinking.

It is well documented that a lot of immature women and men start to see their spouse or GF as a mother or father figure.

This is NOT healthy way to see your spouse.

Such people are prone to cheating and cheating again after caught like an errant defiant teenager.

He should not be asking you what to do.

He should KNOW WHAT HE DID IS WRONG, AND HE SHOULD KNOW WHAT HIS RESPONSE NEEDS TO BE.

If he is so dependent on you that he needs to ask you how to diss his affair partner, he is too immature to handle a real long term marriage.
 

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Here's the problem with this type of thinking.

It is well documented that a lot of immature women and men start to see their spouse or GF as a mother or father figure.

This is NOT healthy way to see your spouse.

Such people are prone to cheating and cheating again after caught like an errant defiant teenager.

He should not be asking you what to do.

He should KNOW WHAT HE DID IS WRONG, AND HE SHOULD KNOW WHAT HIS RESPONSE NEEDS TO BE.

If he is so dependent on you that he needs to ask you how to diss his affair partner, he is too immature to handle a real long term marriage.

thanks for reminding me of that. He did say on his own that he will avoid her now completely. And quite nicely dissed her invite to connect on LinkedIn.

I wonder how you balance this. Because personally if I offer to do something, I hate when the other person plays coy and says, do what you think is best. I want the other person to have an opinion as well.
 

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Many articles I have read say the wayward spouse will continue the affairs or start new ones. How could anyone trying to R ever trust that this will not happen again?

What seems to happen is, the unfaithful spouse loses respect or curiosity about their partner. This combines with natural chemical changes in the brain. Once these occur, there seems, at least in my mind, no way to recover. The new 'connections' in the brain become trained by the constant use of them. The chemicals released by our glands support and enforce these new feelings and thoughts.

We can retrain ourselves to accept the past, but I think it would be difficult to nearly impossible for the wayward spouse to actually want and desire to be in the previous relationship. They have trained their bodies and minds, in a sense, to accept what has happened. Their thought processes and the emotions associated have all changed. Unless the BS changes in a similar or maybe an opposite manner, I can't understand how these couples could truly have a good, strong relationship.

I sometimes think the BS needs to experience the feelings and emotions of the wayward. I can only see this happening if the two get back together and after trust is reestablished, commit adultery on the former wayward spouse. This cannot be a good solution. Trust will be broken again.

I know of couple who never seem to actually fall "in love". They want to be around each other and are good to each other. They just never seem to really trust or love in a deep emotional sense. Is this love? Is this what we crave? What gain is there in a relationship such as this? I don't know. I am still thinking about this.

Sometimes I think the solution is to just learn the ways of the cheater and follow. You won't get your heart broken if you never fully commit. Instead of lies, just don't talk about anything which will endanger the relationship? Be extremely discreet? Always have a backup lover and plan for your life without your partner?

I think it is different when the relationship is new and nothing like this has occurred, yet. There is mutual respect and a curiosity to know the other person. There are new pathways of thinking made in the brain. There is a chemical response which supports these changes.

What do you think?
 
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thanks for reminding me of that. He did say on his own that he will avoid her now completely. And quite nicely dissed her invite to connect on LinkedIn.

I wonder how you balance this. Because personally if I offer to do something, I hate when the other person plays coy and says, do what you think is best. I want the other person to have an opinion as well.
I am not an expert. I am only a betrayed spouse.

I can tell you that my own cheating and STBEH only started acting truly remorseful, when I filed and stopped telling him what to do.

I told him to do what he thought was best and that it was important to me that he make these decisions on his own.

Since filing, I have gotten no more anonymous letters about any bad behaviors such as him casually running into the OW and speaking with her, or him going to men's clubs.

Sadly, I simply don't care, anymore, and no longer want to be married to someone whom I distrust and feel the need to check up on all the time.

I gave him one shot at reconciliation and he blew it.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

There will NOT be a third time.

I solved that threat by filing.
 

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I think that's a very clinical way of stating "once a cheater always a cheater" which just ain't true.

I will always be guilty of cheating, but I can assure you I will eat broken glass before I would cheat again and I can also assure you that I love my wife very much.

I understand what you're saying, but it makes no allowance for the reconnection and improvement of a marriage that can occur post infidelity. That's not to say that the reconnection and improvements are normal or typical, but they can and do happen.
 

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If an affair is worth the risk of losing what took so long to build, what would justify the effort to rebuild a marriage?

Is this reason a good solid foundation for rebuilding a life-long commitment?
 

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Many articles I have read say the wayward spouse will continue the affairs or start new ones. How could anyone trying to R ever trust that this will not happen again?

What seems to happen is, the unfaithful spouse loses respect or curiosity about their partner. This combines with natural chemical changes in the brain. Once these occur, there seems, at least in my mind, no way to recover. The new 'connections' in the brain become trained by the constant use of them. The chemicals released by our glands support and enforce these new feelings and thoughts.

We can retrain ourselves to accept the past, but I think it would be difficult to nearly impossible for the wayward spouse to actually want and desire to be in the previous relationship. They have trained their bodies and minds, in a sense, to accept what has happened. Their thought processes and the emotions associated have all changed. Unless the BS changes in a similar or maybe an opposite manner, I can't understand how these couples could truly have a good, strong relationship.

I sometimes think the BS needs to experience the feelings and emotions of the wayward. I can only see this happening if the two get back together and after trust is reestablished, commit adultery on the former wayward spouse. This cannot be a good solution. Trust will be broken again.

I know of couple who never seem to actually fall "in love". They want to be around each other and are good to each other. They just never seem to really trust or love in a deep emotional sense. Is this love? Is this what we crave? What gain is there in a relationship such as this? I don't know. I am still thinking about this.

Sometimes I think the solution is to just learn the ways of the cheater and follow. You won't get your heart broken if you never fully commit. Instead of lies, just don't talk about anything which will endanger the relationship? Be extremely discreet? Always have a backup lover and plan for your life without your partner?

I think it is different when the relationship is new and nothing like this has occurred, yet. There is mutual respect and a curiosity to know the other person. There are new pathways of thinking made in the brain. There is a chemical response which supports these changes.

What do you think?
Please don't allow your spouses cheating turn you too into a cheater.

I agree with you though that it's impossible for a marriage too be stronger after a betrayal.

The marriage may survive, but it will never be stronger. It may be OKAY, but never stronger.

Articles state that in the last ten years cheating has risen dramatically.

Reasons given are:

1 -too easy access to really raunchy internet porn which conditions the mind to crave novelty and that lead to seeking an in person affair partner.

2- Easy and instant ways to communicate without your spouse knowing.

In the days when there was a house phone as the only means to communicate the chance of a spouse or child answering the phone if an affair partner called was too great.

To my mind however, they need to add a third reason to the reasons above.

That third reason being all these ludicrous articles on the internet and books published in which some people claim that a marriage can be stronger after cheating.

This thinking likely encourages cheating as a way to solve marital issues.

Also, we can see how stressed out BS's who reconcile are simply by the fact that some are still posting on these boards 20 odd years after an affair.

Sorry, my marriage can never be stronger after an affair. It may be salveagable, but it ain't gonna' be stronger. I don't care who says it will.

Also, if you talk to divorce attorneys they will tell you that in most divorce cases, where there is no physical abuse cited, there is ALWAYS at least one incident of cheating lurking in the background,

And, usually it is the betrayed spouse who files, even 20 years later, because they just can't get over the suspiscions and doubts and mistrust.
 
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