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Discussion Starter #61
There is not necessarily anything wrong with having some separate friends.
My wife and I do as well.
However, she doesn't hang out with guys, and I don't hang out with women.
We do this out of respect for each other and our relationship.
I think the context of the situation makes the whole thing appear nefarious.
I could see a situation where you might not participate in activities all the time, but to be totally excluded? Not good.
No one else in this group thinks this is strange? Are all these people single, or are there a mix of married people?
Do they not think that it is strange that you are excluded? There are many other questions that can be asked, but these are the key ones.
At least she hasn't declared her self as single on FB, but her actions can enable one to draw a different conclusion.
I would be happy to be wrong here, but I don't see this whole thing boding well for you.
You have two plays here: 1) "Man" up, nip it in the bud and cooperatively come up with a scenario with proper boundaries where she can get what she needs, while allows you to feel respected and "safe" in the relationship. or 2) You give her exactly what she is giving you. Get some new clothes, go to the gym, new haircut, go on a real self improvement kick. Have your own life as well. Make her "Plan B", like she has you. Frankly, that might be your best play. She doesn't think you have the guts to do it. If you do it, she most likely will feel the threat, will comprehend where you are coming from, and will adjust her attitude accordingly.
Either way, you need to do something quickly, before it is too late (if it isn't already.)
We have set a time to sit down and draw fair boundary lines. This coming after I return from a business trip and after the results from her tests are in. We have, in the mean time, drawn boundary lines to get us by until that conversation can happen. She is completely willing to enter a discussion to set clear and fair boundaries for the sake of the marriage. It’s something we discuss every single day.
As for your other question, it’s a mixed group. Some single, some married. Some couples come together, some leave their spouse at home. It’s a group that has been friends since high school and they have just kept that same circle so to speak.
 

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I’ve asked before, she just says she wants us each to have our own group of friends, separate from each other. Sometimes it’s healthy to have a little separation like that.

She’s not marked as single on her profile, she just made the relationship status to where only a handful of people can see it. (She’s still linked to my account, she’s just hidden it from public view).
She took off her wedding ring. She's "marking" herself as single.

Your house is on fire but you're walking around watering the plants.
 

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Discussion Starter #63
There is not necessarily anything wrong with having some separate friends.
My wife and I do as well.
However, she doesn't hang out with guys, and I don't hang out with women.
We do this out of respect for each other and our relationship.
I think the context of the situation makes the whole thing appear nefarious.
I could see a situation where you might not participate in activities all the time, but to be totally excluded? Not good.
No one else in this group thinks this is strange? Are all these people single, or are there a mix of married people?
Do they not think that it is strange that you are excluded? There are many other questions that can be asked, but these are the key ones.
At least she hasn't declared her self as single on FB, but her actions can enable one to draw a different conclusion.
I would be happy to be wrong here, but I don't see this whole thing boding well for you.
You have two plays here: 1) "Man" up, nip it in the bud and cooperatively come up with a scenario with proper boundaries where she can get what she needs, while allows you to feel respected and "safe" in the relationship. or 2) You give her exactly what she is giving you. Get some new clothes, go to the gym, new haircut, go on a real self improvement kick. Have your own life as well. Make her "Plan B", like she has you. Frankly, that might be your best play. She doesn't think you have the guts to do it. If you do it, she most likely will feel the threat, will comprehend where you are coming from, and will adjust her attitude accordingly.
Either way, you need to do something quickly, before it is too late (if it isn't already.)
She really has no made me Plan B. I am still her priority 6 days of the week. But about 1 day a week she just wants to go out with her friends and be left alone. Again, that’s not too much of my issue. The main issue being she doesn’t want to acknowledge our marriage in fear of loosing the attention of Facebook creeps. Or wearing her wedding ring to miss out on the attention of other creeps. But, she is always very blunt with them. I’m not interested in anything, I just want you to call me hot.
 

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I'm going to add my 2 cents as a woman. You have repeatedly said she likes the "attention." However, the type of "attention" she seeks isn't good for your marriage. I mean, she removes her wedding ring - WTF???

This is about disrespect. This is about you not having clear boundaries. Granted you cannot "make" anyone do anything against their will. But we're talking about a marriage here. What part of your wife becoming so wrapped up in needing other people's approval to feel good that she has to hang out in bars to do it are you okay with????

This is just wrong on so many levels. Sure, I can see enjoying compliments, but your wife is shaking her ass in public and making it seem like she's unattached.

Denial. It's a powerful thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #65
I'm going to add my 2 cents as a woman. You have repeatedly said she likes the "attention." However, the type of "attention" she seeks isn't good for your marriage. I mean, she removes her wedding ring - WTF???

This is about disrespect. This is about you not having clear boundaries. Granted you cannot "make" anyone do anything against their will. But we're talking about a marriage here. What part of your wife becoming so wrapped up in needing other people's approval to feel good that she has to hang out in bars to do it are you okay with????

This is just wrong on so many levels. Sure, I can see enjoying compliments, but your wife is shaking her ass in public and making it seem like she's unattached.

Denial. It's a powerful thing.
She’s not always hanging out in bars. In fact it’s never a bar. She’s always up front with people if they ask if she’s married. She’s just afraid the appearance of a ring might detract from ones desire to compliment her. She’s always bluntly honest that she just wants their compliments, nothing more.
 

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She really has no made me Plan B. I am still her priority 6 days of the week. But about 1 day a week she just wants to go out with her friends and be left alone. Again, that’s not too much of my issue. The main issue being she doesn’t want to acknowledge our marriage in fear of loosing the attention of Facebook creeps. Or wearing her wedding ring to miss out on the attention of other creeps. But, she is always very blunt with them. I’m not interested in anything, I just want you to call me hot.
When a woman truly loves and respects a man. they do none of the s**t highlighted in bold.
 

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Discussion Starter #71
How long do you plan on accepting this behavior?
That I’m not sure of. I definitely want to get home so we can have our talk about strict boundaries, which she is 100% on board with. We also am awaiting lab results from tests run. I think it would be unfair to make a hasty decision before those things happen.
 

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How about you extend your trip? Get together with a few high school friends and have some fun?
 

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That I’m not sure of. I definitely want to get home so we can have our talk about strict boundaries, which she is 100% on board with. We also am awaiting lab results from tests run. I think it would be unfair to make a hasty decision before those things happen.
I think you need to lay the whole thing out for her in a comprehensive and unfiltered manner.
She is not behaving like a person that loves and respects their spouse. She is not behaving in a manner that is "Safe" for you, your marriage or your family.
Certainly, her medical results need to be vetted and factored into the discussion. She may need to be treated for other conditions or be better medicated.
I'd say some serious IC is in order for anyone who needs to go to such lengths for personal validation. Don't take any crap about how she is in the business. A surgeon in a hospital may have done a thousand more appendectomies than any other doctor in the same hospital. However, does that mean when that same surgeon has appendicitis and needs emergency surgery, that he should operate on himself?
Also, after a period of IC, some MC may be in order.
She needs to get with the program. You deserve better. Much better.
 

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Discussion Starter #75
I think you need to lay the whole thing out for her in a comprehensive and unfiltered manner.
She is not behaving like a person that loves and respects their spouse. She is not behaving in a manner that is "Safe" for you, your marriage or your family.
Certainly, her medical results need to be vetted and factored into the discussion. She may need to be treated for other conditions or be better medicated.
I'd say some serious IC is in order for anyone who needs to go to such lengths for personal validation. Don't take any crap about how she is in the business. A surgeon in a hospital may have done a thousand more appendectomies than any other doctor in the same hospital. However, does that mean when that same surgeon has appendicitis and needs emergency surgery, that he should operate on himself?
Also, after a period of IC, some MC may be in order.
She needs to get with the program. You deserve better. Much better.
I do plan on laying it all out in our discussion. I am a little afraid that I’ll agree to some terms I’m not happy with just to avoid separation. But I do know she’s as willing as I am to have these discussions, set these boundaries and make this work. But, she’s steadfast on some of her wants in the compromise as am I on some of mine.
 

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I do plan on laying it all out in our discussion. I am a little afraid that I’ll agree to some terms I’m not happy with just to avoid separation. But I do know she’s as willing as I am to have these discussions, set these boundaries and make this work. But, she’s steadfast on some of her wants in the compromise as am I on some of mine.
Somethings are negotiable, some things aren't.
Whatever you do, refuse to agree on anything that undermines the integrity of your marriage, sacrifices your self worth, self respect, or the best interests of your kids.
There are much more important things in the world than her "Feelz." If she truly not trying to create an "exit" event from your marriage, she truly needs some medical or counseling intervention.
Her behavior is shady and inappropriate.
She is acting in a manner that is reckless, and shows total disregard of any kind of love or respect for you.
If she wants to separate, have enough pride in yourself to inform her that she better be sure, because there will be no coming back. Inform her that if you are not her priority, you are not going to be her option. Then, if necessary, walk that talk.
The right thing is not always the easiest path. Sometimes you have to be willing to lose something to save it.
If I were in your position, a full psychological evaluation for her might be in order.
 

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She might not straighten out. Probably won't. But do you not respect yourself or love yourself enough to not allow anyone, even the love of your life, to walk all over you? She knows you'll never leave and that's the problem. She can do whatever she wants and you won't leave.

She's basically getting numerous hall passes (without getting physical that we know of). How is that fair to you? What about you? I'm not one for playing games, but I think you should live your own life while under the same roof (the 180) and do your own thing. Hell, take off your wedding ring, go do what she's doing. If you don't want to, make her think that's what you're doing. This whole situation is so egregious and inequitable . It's gross. Her entitlement is astounding.

And, you need to go see a lawyer and find out what a legal separation and/or divorce would look like. Doesn't mean you have to go through with it. Consider it a fact-finding mission.

I'll also let you in on a secret. Women abhor weak men. The respect dwindles to one scintilla if their man doesn't have a spine. Be a man of action.
^^^ THIS.
Take off YOUR ring, do the 180 (180 for Betrayed Spouses ) and PLEASE at least PLAN for separation/divorce -- learn what will be involved. Get YOUR plans together -- she doesn't care what you are doing, so YOU need to care what you are doing. Does NOT MEAN you have to divorce her. BUT I may show her that how badly this affects you. Right now, she gets to have her cake and eat it. YOU are sitting home as plan B while she goes out and gets all the ego kibbles (let's hope that is all she is getting) she wants.
How is ANY of this fair to you. You cannot "nice" her back to stop this. Stop letting her walk all over you.
 

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I have actually had the talk with her about whether or not I’m weak for going along with it. She said stupid maybe, but definitely not weak. I feel that it takes an incredibly strong man to put that much trust in his spouse.
COME ON -- she told you to your FACE she thinks you are stupid to go along with this -- WHAT does that say to you? She is placating you with the "definitely not weak" Just STUPID! (oh yeah, she really DOES think you are weak).

It always a group setting, mixed men and women. Like fishing trips, etc. But sometimes the main inviter is a male friend. Other times our son has gone and hung out with them too. So I know she’s not doing anything nefarious.
Do you NOT THINK she knows your son is there and behaves when he is around? WHAT is she like without him there? If your son can go, WHY CAN'T YOU? Because she is acting/doing things you wouldn't like.
 

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I do plan on laying it all out in our discussion. I am a little afraid that I’ll agree to some terms I’m not happy with just to avoid separation. But I do know she’s as willing as I am to have these discussions, set these boundaries and make this work. But, she’s steadfast on some of her wants in the compromise as am I on some of mine.
The wedding ring, in so many ways, is both symbolic and literal. With the ring on, she is saying she is not who she wants to be. That's not really something to negotiate. If she doesn't want to be the person wearing a wedding ring, it's really pretty simple.
 

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My ex pulled this crap on me and in two weeks, she became my ex. She wanted to hang out with a certain group made up mostly of men and eventually got a job doing that. There’s no way I would put up with that ****. By the way, the 4 kids were on my side.
 
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