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Discussion Starter #1
My marriage has come to a crashing end. I could handle it ending if it all made sense to me. It is hard to resolve to understand, forgive, move on, or anything when the wayward partner never admits or owns up to their part of the marriage failure. My wife insists to this day that her relationship with the other guy is nothing more than a friendship, in fact he’s her best friends and she loves him as such. The more I try to talk to her about the EA every since it became known (to me) the more she states I pushed her closer towards him. Explain that LOGIC to me? I have never once gotten her to say that she did anything wrong, even after two separate attempts at marriage counseling. Has anyone else experienced this with a spouse that was in a EA? I still to this day think it’s possible that she doesn’t realize that she’s in an EA, and truly believes what little she will actually tell me. Why does my opinion on her relationship with him not count after twenty-three years plus of marriage?
 

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That's not logic, it's affair fog, which is just about the antithesis of logic. She's on the rationalization hamster, spinning events in her mind to make her pure as the fresh driven snow and you the overbearing, obnoxious, untrusting, husband who destroyed the marriage due to his own insecurities. Sound about right?

It's all affair fog. One of the more insidious aspects of emotional affairs is that if no physical or virtual "cheating" takes place most can rationalize their way into it's an ok relationship. It doesn't matter that they are giving all of their time, emotion, and connection to someone other than their spouse. Of course outside the influence of affair fog it's perfectly obvious that it's way beyond healthy but they can't see that. The reason your opinion doesn't count is because to give your opinion credence would mean she'd have to give up her "friend" which she isn't willing to do so she rationalizes away your opinion as unreasonable.

Have you given her a copy of "Not Just Friends?"
 

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I second Not Just Friends. Awesome book for you. Your wife too, but she probably wouldn't read it.

Draw your line. Tell her what you need and what the consequences will be if she doesn't do it. Then prepare to divorce, because she sounds like she's in REALLY deep.

Personally, I would kick her out, but few are willing to take that step. I did and it worked for me.
 

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Fixin:
Just wondering. Did you EVER do the things that were recommended? Such as VAR in the home/car? Checked phone records? Talked to OMW? Investigated work environment such as workmates? informed HR?

If you did these and things came out clean then I understand her reluctance to admit to anything other than an inappropriate friendship. BUT if you did not then....I totally get that she still has your number and play you like a fiddle.

And if that's the case. Don't worry. What's done is done and in the past. You've learned something from this (I hope). I also hope you acted with dignity in parting ways - a valuable lesson for your son. However you may be ruining your son's perception of how a man should act when confronted with disrespect, deceit, and really - humiliation. Good luck to you my internet friend. Put this BEHIND YOU
 

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Well, if she is willing to divorce you (I assume that's what you meant by your marriage crashing down) over you asking her to stop seeing "Just a Friend", then you know where you stand with her. He is more important to her than you are (or your son for that matter). This could have been her strategy all along for getting you out of her life ... think about it. I say good luck to you, you are better off without her.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I do have a copy of “Just Friends”. I bought it on the recommendation of our last marriage counselor. My wife has never even picked it up. I didn’t finish reading it because the counselor thought it was causing me more harm than good (the emotions it was stirring). She did mention to my wife that she could still read, and she didn’t.
 

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I suspect you've already been told what I'm about to say in your other thread, I read your opening post but not the responses.

Your wife has checked out. You have only two options - 1. decided to live with it (not acceptable). 2. Start to move on without her. I'm going to assume that option 1 is not on the table for you so let's talk about option 2.

The weird part about option 2 is that in reality it is the best chance you have of snapping her out of it and bringing her back into the relationship. But you have to mean it. The irony in this is that by the time she snaps out of it you may have gotten comfortable enough with the idea of moving on without her that you don't want her back. Reconciliation happens when she checks back in before you check out - two moving targets have to cross in time and space - pretty rare.

So you have to accept that she has checked out and decide to move forward on your own. Understanding that if she decides to return her full commitment to the marriage you'll evaluate at that time. Read up on the 180 - do it - and start thinking about and wrapping your head around a life without her. Put your foot down, man up, and tell her this sh!t isn't acceptable and you're not going to be in a marriage with three people - then do it. You really can't "nice" someone out of an EA. Your wife needs to see your train leaving the station and realize she has to make a choice.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
sigma
I know your are correct about the option #2. I have begun that mind set change, and now it's a matter of timing. Our youngest is in his last year of highschool, so that factors in.
 

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Sorry Fixin. You have a un-remorseful wife, deeply involved in a EA and very likely a PA, who is lying to you.

My lovely STBXW of 13 years and mother of 3, insisted that her and OM were just friends as well. After many months of her lying to me I discovered the truth. She was actually screwing him for over a year...probably longer.

Mine also said the same thing about pushing her towards him when I would try to talk to her. She would read none of the books I bought as well. She is in a heavy fog. There is nothing you can say to her at this time that will snap her out of it or change her mind. You need to do the opposite!

If you need proof...gather info. I used a GPS tracker, it worked great for me. VAR in her car or wherever she spends time alone. Phone records, computer keystroke logger...etc.

I agree with the others here. The only chance you may have is to move on. The 180 will help you but you have to mean it. Remember, you are doing it for you. I would consult a lawyer as well...and I wouldn't even bother to hide it from her.

Don't bother reading any more cheating books...they just make you sad and think about how to fix your marriage. You can't fix it...not without her help...and you can't change her. Read books like "Love must be tough" and "No More Mr. Nice Guy". These will help you get into the right frame of mind and ultimately be of more value in the end...no matter which way your marriage goes...alpha up.

My STBXW noticed the difference in me and started chasing me in the end. You need to take back the power in the marriage. The ultimate decision should be yours to make.
 

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Whatever her reasoning for this friendship is, it is inappropriate and unnecessary. She needs to stop wasting her attention on other men, cease and desist. She is placing other men before you and not protecting the mutual exclusivity that is between a man and a woman in marriage.

People want some attention, and when you start getting friends, especially of the opposite sex these friends start prying into your relationship, taking more and more of your time slowly, until they're between you and your loved one.

A TRUE FRIEND WILL NOT try to take your marriage time away, a true friend will UNDERSTAND you are married and will not allow the opportunity for someone (other spouse) to declare a relationship with a married spouse inappropriate, where is the respect?

Start ignoring her and moving on, I'm sure she'll notice you are distant soon enough and keep at it until she goes NC and make sure you verify.



Quote:
Originally Posted by F-102
It may have gone something like this:

They first start catching up, and it's all "How you been doing? What have you been up to?"

Then it would have morphed into talk about:

What they've been doing since they parted
Their significant others since they parted
Their families
Their favorite music, movies, etc.
Their spouses
You
Your job
How your job keeps you away
How lonely she gets when you're away
How she looks forward to their conversations all the time now
How she loves talking to him
How she gets "bored" talking to you
How you don't always listen
How you're not "perfect"
How you can be so insensitive sometimes
How she wonders if she would have stayed with him
How he understands her
How he knows how to make her feel good
How you fail at this
How you are such an a**hole
How she feels young again
How she hasn't felt this happy with you in so long
How he's a better man than you'll ever be
How she wants to see him again
How they can meet under the radar
How she's thought of leaving you
How she ever could have fallen for a jerk like you
How he's her soul mate
How she made a big mistake leaving him
How she made an even bigger mistake marrying you
How they were meant to be together...

...get the picture?
 

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Sadly Fixin if your wife of 23 years will not even listen to you then you have your answer about what to do.

Leave her and find someone that will listen.

Time for a hard 180 to help you detach from her and make you strong to move on with your life.

Just maybe your wife might wake up but do not count on it.

Also work up the separation of assets and get her involved in that process.


Make her see what she is going to lose.

HM64
 

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You have got good amount of advice here.
I have not read your story.
Did you do 180?
There is a link for j"just let them go".
Try.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
She never even tried to read my copy of “Just Friends”. She didn’t know I had bought while she was on one her many business trips with the OM. It came up during a therapy session that I had it and had begun to read it. The counselor advised her to read it, but she never even asked me where it was (I had it sitting out in the open on the nightstand). The counselor advised me to stop reading it because she thought it was causing too much anger and anxiety (because it was hitting too close to home, I think).

I have done 180. She has a very negative reaction to passive aggressive, and will not have a the intended effect on her, type A. So, she sees this as weakness.

I have made initial contact with a lawyer.

I have told her we need to work on separating our finances.

Problems are; still have two kids at home (one an adult, the other in his senior year of high school); I admittedly struggle with removing myself from someone who I have spent the past 25 years with.

I realize that her personality will never allow her to admit wrongdoing of any sort in this matter (pride and ego). In addition, some extenuating circumstances because he is her boss and the nature of the positions they hold.
 

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Odds are at least 50/50 when it hits home that you are REALLY going to divorce her that she will come out from under the ether. If that happens and she decides she wants to reconcile the first thing that absolutely MUST happen is that she quits her job. Period. Non-negotiable. You know that right? If you don't think people do have to quit jobs and even careers because of inappropriate relationships think again. There are many stories and examples of people who have done exactly that.

You need to think through thoroughly what you will and won't accept and stick to it. If she decides to start trying to salvage things she has to play totally by your rules.
 

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so he still taking trips with the twins !!

You never listened. We told you to go to his wife.
we told you to go to HR.

How can we help if you WON'T take the advice !!!!!
You can't help those who won't help themselves. And let's face it, ignorance is bliss. We won't even get into low testosterone. Women are repelled by indecisive, passive, weak males and they're turned on my men who take what they want, when they want it. Most guys don't want to take the red pill.
 

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Fixin, you have the control, the BS has his point of control and does not know it and does not use it. Why have you not started the fire under this affair? Why must you let it simmer tastily until its well done for a PA or maybe it already is? Why must you have such low self respect for yourself that you allow your wife to carry on an affair and have a relation with you? Why must you allow such disregard for your family that you do not even whip this to an end? Why must you come here asking for help but you do not change? If you want to become strong you must lift heavier things and do more.

You need to focus on yourself. The reason the 180 didn't work is because you used it to change her and not yourself. You nee to focus on yourself! If you had focused on yourself, you would have detached your FOGGED MIND and cleared the dust a little to make decision that are more sound, more outside the box and more aggressive towards progress.

OP don't let me down, focus on yourself again, eat healthy, loads of vit c for the stress, increase that testosterone by avoiding alcohol, masturbation, sex, and start exercising and sleeping a lot!
 
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