[SCondeck]

Hello All,

I've been reading various posts here for a few days and have decided to add what cents/sense I may have.

To begin, I'd like to make a list of my known flaws:

Not so good at communicating feelings, ie: go into my cave.
I bottle up my feelings rather than discuss them as I should.
Not the best listener.
Not so good at planning fun dates and keeping life exciting.
Watching dirty movies.
Not home as much as I should be.
Allow myself to be walked on too much.

I'm separated for almost a month now. My walkaway wife has walked. I'm currently going through the anger phase of the emotional wash cycle so I appologize for any sarcasm/blame, etc. Bare with me. I travel alot for work and am gone about half the year. I know I havn't been there for her as much as I'd like but in my defense, she knew I did this for a living when we met and she chose to marry me anyway. I have been and am continuing to search for a new career that keeps me home more. We've been married for a year and a half when she finally pulled the trigger and called for a separation and divorce. I'm still in shock and can't believe she would do this. I've never cheated on her, never abused her, done my best to keep her safe physically and financially, told her I loved her (and meant it) every day and tried all I could to be the best husband I can be. Shortly after the wedding, the arguments started. The sex began to decline and the anger and blame against me increased. She is on some heavy duty anxiety and depression pills and has severe abandonment and man-hating issues. In order to help boost her confidence, I helped invest in a new pair of tits for her, put a huge down payment on a new car and now that she has a stable career and is making good money, she's gone. During our "happy marriage" together, she has called me a liar, adulterer, non-christian, has called me sick and an addict, has told me I hate minorities, the poor, gays (and pretty much every subculture of humanity except mine). She's held another mans hand and called him her boyfriend in front of me and our friends, has refused me intimacy and said "I'll no longer be your wh0re!" and "I'm not going to be a receptacle for your 0rgasm anymore!" and my personal favorite "F*ck you and your white trash family!". Aint she a sweetheart? I unfortunately didn't act appropriately at that last comment and threw a glass across the room, busted a hole in the wall and peeled out of the driveway. This was a terribly inappropriate action (I've never done that before or since) and I came back shortly afterwards to appologize. However, she was then able to add "You are a violent and dangerous man" to her already long I-hate-my-husband-list.

I, being the weak man that I am, began believing the things she was saying. I was starting to think I really was sick, really was an addict (She was referring to my watching pornography but in my defense her refusal of intimacy was driving me absolutely crazy). I went to marriage counseling with her, even saw an addiction therapist at her suggestion who laughed and said I was a completely normal human being. I even started taking some herbal supplements that are supposed to supress a mans sex-drive. She found them, flushed them down the toilet and accused me of taking the lazy way out. The final straw was at our last counseling session when she accused me of something so horrendous and horrible that the counselor said she was bound by law to call the police and asked my wife if she was absolutely sure of what she was saying. My wife said yes. She then said it's over and she wants a divorce. I am convinced that my wife is completely off her rocker from a lifetime of horrible experiences (of what she's told me anyway. Now I'm starting to wonder how much of it was completely made up), mixing heavy prescription drugs, smoking, birth control and alcohol. I know she can't help the way she is and I wish I could forgive her but recently I've just been so angry with the way she's treated me. She's so willing to throw away everything for some percieved greener grass on the other side. Does she really think, as her friends keep telling her, that she'll be happy elsewhere? I would be willing to forgive and move on if she would just stop being so mean, appologize, tell me she loves me and that she wants to be married. Instead, she's said "Im not in love with you anymore and I just want you to be happy." Sometimes I suspect another man but I cant be sure and honestly I dont really want to know.

We have (had?) a great house together, we are both educated and make a good living. I believe I am far from white-trash and far from any of those horrible things she's called me. I'm already making plans for a new life without her. God willing, I want to go back to school and maybe get an MBA. I want to get more involved with fellowship (as being married to her has alienated almost all my friends and social time) and mission work. I've signed up for some meetups in my city and I have a bright future ahead. These are the things I think of during the Excitement phase. I hope to get back there again soon.

I know that the fault is not completely hers. I have many flaws and am nowhere near perfect but I loved her and I tried my best. I pray that God remove the anger from my heart and allow me to forgive her. I pray the best for her and that someday she may find the happiness she so longs for.

-SCondeck

 

[SCondeck]

From reading the threads of other men in somewhat similar situations, I'm starting to think she might have Borderline Personality Disorder. She sees a psychologist for the talking/counseling stuff AND a psychiatrist to help keep track of all the meds. Poor woman. I wish I could just fix her, fix our marriage and move past all this to a happy life together. Unfortunately I know that wont happen. Any comments, suggestions? Is BPD curable? Should I even bother looking into it? Will she ever be happy?

 

[I'mInLoveWithMyHubby]

There is something obviously mentally wrong with this woman whether its bipolar or borderline personality disorder. Maybe both, but I am not a doctor. There really is nothing that can excuse her behavior.

She was being verbally/emotionally abusive during your marriage. My ex h would repeatedly talk down to me from telling me how worthless I was to calling me every cuss word possible. This was only part of it and it was on a daily basis. He would start fights as an excuse to leave. I later found out he was seeing several women on the side. When I left, another woman moved in 3 days after. They are now married and she can't understand why he cheats on her. Plus, she allows him to rule her every move. My ex has diagnosed bipolar disorder and he is a serial cheater. I did remarry and have been in a very wonderful and successful marriage for the last 12 years.

You will be much better off finding a woman who respects you. Who will not abuse you by making up stories and calling you names. I'm so sorry your wife treated you so poorly. It's not a great way to live and thankfully you did not have any children with this woman. I can't imagine she'd be very motherly by the way she acts.

 

[SCondeck]

Thank you for saying that. I admit sometimes all the namecalling and accusations get to me. I try to see it from her perspective and find myself wondering if I am really such a POS. Her friends and family probably think so. During those times when I can take emotion out of it and look at it from a common sense perspective, I know that I did nothing deserving of divorce.

I'm sorry about what you had to go through with your ex. How someone who supposedly loves another can treat them like this is beyond me. Do you think these people will ever find happiness?

 

[Uptown]

I'm starting to think she might have Borderline Personality Disorder. She sees a psychologist ....Should I even bother looking into it?

SC, if you will hold firm in your decision to divorce her, you do not need to determine what issues she had. Simply walk away and not look back. It nonetheless would be prudent, in my opinion, to learn how to spot the red flags for BPD. One reason is that, if she does return (as BPDers often do), you are at risk of weakening and taking her back. A second reason is that, if you are a caregiver-rescuer like me, you are at risk of running away from one BPDer right into the arms of another.

Yet, if you do want to know, it would be unwise to rely on anything HER psychologist told you. Relying on her psychologist's advice during the marriage would be as foolish as relying on her attorney's advice during a divorce. It is important to get a professional who is ethically bound to protect YOUR best interests, not hers.

Therapists typically withhold the name of the disorder from BPDers and narcissists for the protection of those sick patients. Insurance companies usually refuse to cover treatments for BPD or other PDs but will cover the treatments if the therapist lists only the comordid conditions such as PTSD, depression, bipolar, anxiety, or ADHD. For a more detailed explanation, see my post at It's official, I'm getting divorced.

Is BPD curable?

No, SC, but there are many excellent treatment programs available that teach BPDers how to better control their emotions, how to do self soothing, how to intellectually challenge their intense feelings, and how to "stay in the moment" instead of escaping into daydreams. But, sadly, it is rare for a high functioning BPDer to have the self awareness and ego strength needed to take advantage of those programs.

Will she ever be happy?

If she has strong BPD traits, she is filled with so much anger, shame, and self loathing that -- no -- she won't be happy unless she decides to confront her issues and learn how to manage them. It took me 15 years to learn that it is impossible to make an unhappy person feel happy.

She reeled me in with false love, making me feel wanted and needed. I feel like an idiot and now realize she never gave a **** about me.

If true, SC, you are NOT describing a BPDer. It is the narcissists (NPDers) and sociopaths (AvPDers) who are incapable of loving anyone. If your W is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), she almost certainly loved you, albeit in an immature manner. It is not the mature, stable form of love that is necessary for sustaining a marriage or other close LTR.

Although BPDers typically do love their spouses, they do black-white thinking wherein they will flip back and forth between hating and loving the spouse. This occurs because they "split off" conflicting feelings, putting them out of reach of their conscious minds. That way, they only have to deal with one set of feelings at a time -- much like a four year old does all day long (flipping in seconds between loving mommy and hating mommy).

The final straw was at our last counseling session when she accused me of something so horrendous and horrible that the counselor said she was bound by law to call the police and asked my wife if she was absolutely sure of what she was saying. My wife said yes.

You are very fortunate you didn't end up sitting in jail for three days like I did. When a BPDer flips to splitting you black, she sometimes will perceive you as Hitler and will treat you accordingly. It therefore is very common for the husbands of BPDers to be thrown in jail. And, if it happens early on a Saturday morning (as happened to me), you will be in there for 3 days before you have a chance to go before a judge late on Monday afternoon.

How someone who supposedly loves another can treat them like this is beyond me.

I offer several suggestions for getting a better understanding and reducing the risk of repeating this experience with another woman.

As an initial matter, I recommend that you NOT tell your W about your suspicions that she has strong BPD traits. If she is a BPDer, she almost certainly will project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Instead, simply allow her psychologist decide what to tell her.

Second, I suggest you read Splitting: Protecting Yourself when Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist. It is written by the author who wrote the best selling BPD book (Stop Walking on Eggshells). This book should be helpful because divorcing a BPDer gets real nasty really quickly. BPDers tend to be very vindictive when you walk away from them.

Third, I suggest you start participating (or at least lurking) at BPDfamily.com -- the largest and most active BPD forum I've found that is devoted fully to the spouses and family members of BPDers. Of the 8 message boards there, the one that likely will be most helpful to you is the "Leaving" board.

Fourth, while you are at BPDfamily.com, I suggest you read the excellent articles in their resources section. My favorite is T9 Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder - Columbia University, New York.

Fifth, if you ever waiver in your decision to divorce her, I suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you will be dealing with if you ever return to her.

Finally, please don't forget those of us on this TAM forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences, you likely are helping numerous other members and lurkers. Take care, SC.

 

[Conrad]

Thank you for saying that. I admit sometimes all the namecalling and accusations get to me. I try to see it from her perspective and find myself wondering if I am really such a POS. Her friends and family probably think so. During those times when I can take emotion out of it and look at it from a common sense perspective, I know that I did nothing deserving of divorce.

I'm sorry about what you had to go through with your ex. How someone who supposedly loves another can treat them like this is beyond me. Do you think these people will ever find happiness?

What about you?



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[SCondeck]

I will, sometime down the road. I know that. It feels like a part of me has been ripped away but I know that it could be so much worse. I can walk away and still be able to face the world, myself and God and know that I didn't cause this. There are no kids involved and I have great opportunities ahead. I will probably miss her and think about her for the rest of my days but she chose to treat me this way and SHE chose to give up and walk away.

So yes, I will be happy again and I hope and pray that she will be as well.

 

[Conrad]

I will, sometime down the road. I know that. It feels like a part of me has been ripped away but I know that it could be so much worse. I can walk away and still be able to face the world, myself and God and know that I didn't cause this. There are no kids involved and I have great opportunities ahead. I will probably miss her and think about her for the rest of my days but she chose to treat me this way and SHE chose to give up and walk away.

So yes, I will be happy again and I hope and pray that she will be as well.

If you don't work on yourself, it's likely to happen again.



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[SCondeck]

Thank you very much uptown. I'm sorry to hear about what you must have went through. So far I havn't been to jail, thank God. So far she's being fair about splitting our stuff and she says she wants this to be as peaceful as possible. Personally I suspect another man.

Some days are easier than others. I'm starting to lapse into the sadness phase again. I didn't marry until I was in my 30s. She was supposed to be the one. The emotional beat-downs, the blame and accusations have taken their toll on me. She broke my heart and my spirit. I was a strong, stable and confident man who didn't take sh*t from anyone. Then I found myself transformed into a depressed, sad little groveling fool of a man. Then she got bored and abandoned her marriage and her husband. I know that everything will be better in the near future and that this trial by fire will mold me into a much better husband for my future wife. I know that I have so much to give and to offer to the right woman. I hope you ladies are reading this! ha.

God bless everyone in here and especially the men who don't deserve this dish served cold by their walk away wives.

 

[Conrad]

SCondeck,

She didn't do anything to you that you didn't allow.

How would you prevent it with your next partner?



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[SCondeck]

I've got it! All this time I've been asking WHY. Why would a woman with a life full of traumatic experiences who was raised to trust no one, who was told all her life that she doesn't need a man, never trust a man and be prepared for when he leaves you who finally finds a husband who is willing to see past all that and love her for who she is, abandon him and her vows? (Run on sentence, I know) Why have I tried so hard to be the best husband to her through constant reasurrance, love and compliments while she never believed any of it and chose to break me down instead.

I've condensed it into one short sentence.

I've tried to build her up while she tried to break me down.

Unfortunately, she succeeded and I failed.

 

[Conrad]

She did nothing you didn't allow.

All the red flags were there from the beginning.

We're not able to "save others" any more than we're able to earn their love.

You can only save yourself. Same goes for her.



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[SCondeck]

When she kicked me out of the house and pulled the trigger on our marriage, I offered to pay the mortgage and all the bills on the house for the entire year of separation so she can be on her feet before we part ways. Well she emailed me a couple of days ago saying she's decided to move out and get her own place.

I don't understand this woman! She's got 60k in student loans plus tons of credit card debt, car payment, cellphone bill, car insurance, medical bills and now she's going to have to pay rent, water, electricity, etc? Is her hatred of me so great that she would knowingly put herself in a ruinous situation just to be rid of all traces of me?

What the hell did I ever do to her to make her loathe me this much?

 

[Uptown]

Is her hatred of me so great that she would knowingly put herself in a ruinous situation just to be rid of all traces of me? What the hell did I ever do to her to make her loathe me this much?

SC, if she has strong BPD traits as you suspect, that is exactly the kind of behavior you should expect. A BPDer is filled with so much anger, shame, and self loathing, that they will often project it all onto the spouse as a way of protecting her fragile ego. Because the projection is a primitive ego defense that works entirely at the subconscious level, the BPDer will truly believe the outrageous accusations coming out of her mouth.

Hence, consider yourself fortunate that she has not called the police and had you thrown into jail for "brutalizing her." That is a fate that often happens to men married to BPDers. Indeed, that is exactly what happened to me after I had spent 15 years taking my BPDer exW to weekly visits with six psychologists and several MCs. After 15 years go by, it is common for the BPDer to become so fearful of abandonment, and so filled with resentment over not being made happy, that she will permanently split the H black.

My exW therefore still sincerely believes, to this today, that I am a violent man who tells lies on a weekly basis. Of course, this is so unfair because I'm not nearly as violent as you. That is, I never threw a glass across the room and I never peeled out of the driveway, LOL.

 

[SCondeck]

Wow, 6 psychologists! You're a better man than I. My wife (I guess I need to start referring to her as STBXW, huh?) is also fearful of abandonment and resentment over not being made happy. She didn't make it anywhere near 15 years though.

During our infamous final MC session, she was crying hysterically saying "I shouldn't have to move out!." Fine, so I said I'd leave first thing in the morning since it was already late by that point. She then said she doesn't feel safe being in the same house as me even for one night. Wow. Do they really believe this stuff? Do they just make up fantasies in their heads?

Haha yea, you and I are just Chronic thugs, Uptown.

 

[SCondeck]

This emotional roller coaster is up and down throughout the day now. I'm having a perfectly normal day, not paying any attention to my situation when suddenly something reminds me of her and I start to miss her so much. I cant help thinking of the wonderful times we've shared together. Then seemingly minutes later I start getting so angry that she would throw all this away, that she would so willingly throw me and our marriage aside. I keep thinking of some other man touching her body. I'm usually pretty good about making it to my room before I break down but I cant always just leave. I work with all men, some pretty hard cases too. I can't be here on the verge of tears. I've got to get through this! I used to be such an emotionally stable guy but this is killing me!

 

[Uptown]

SC, yes, that's exactly how you should be feeling during the healing process. Unlike a BPDer, you have the ego strength and self awareness to stay in touch with all of your feelings, rather than splitting off most of them. If your W has strong BPD traits, walking away from the relationship is extremely painful.

When a BPDer is splitting you white, she is very VERY good. If you want a reminder of just how good that is, get a blu ray disc of any Marilyn Monroe movie and watch it. She was probably the most beloved actress in the world and is widely believed to have had BPD. You may also want to take a look at my description of BPDer behavior at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522.

 

[SCondeck]

So I'm going to be heading home today or tomorrow. I'm getting more than a little bit nervous, to say the least. This will be the first time going into my house and finding it empty. No sweet tail-wagging dog who's always happy to see me. No cute little cat to say hello by biting my toes. No wife to hug and hold and tell her how much I've missed her. I bought that house for us. We moved in together and started our life together there. She's kindly offered to move out and let me have the place but it's never going to be the same. I'm not really sure what I'm going to find there. Will she have taken all the furniture? Will the echoes of my own voice in an empty home be the only sounds I hear?

I hope this gets better soon.

 

[Uptown]

This will be the first time going into my house and finding it empty.

SC, your feelings may get worse before they get better. Although you've been separated for a month, much of that time you likely were in shock and, for your own protection, a state of partial denial. As you say, seeing the empty home will make it all feel so real and concrete.

In my case, I was lucky. My exW had me arrested and thrown into jail on a bogus charge so she could obtain a RO, forcing me out of my own home for 18 months (the time it takes to get a D here in this State). I say "lucky" because, when I got out of jail 3 days later, I was living in a new apartment and making a clean break. And, at the end of the 18 months, I was starting to dread moving back into my home because, like you, I feared being triggered by all the sweet memories. Indeed, I even hated to return to the neighborhood, much less the home, where I had experienced such pain.

I therefore am pleased to report that my fears were way over exaggerated and I adjusted very rapidly. One thing that helped is that I immediately put away all reminders of her -- and I immediately had all the carpets fully replaced (she had left them filthy).

I also am pleased to report how peaceful and wonderful it is to go home and KNOW EXACTLY WHAT TO EXPECT when opening the front door. For the first time in a year and a half, you will find that your doorknob is no longer a Russian roulette game where your prize, on the other side, is either a sweet woman or one yelling, "F*ck you and your white trash family!"

Will the echoes of my own voice in an empty home be the only sounds I hear?

No, you will do what nearly every other member of this forum is doing following the separation: turn the TV on and leave it on until you go to bed. It gives us the feeling of having people in the next room, even when we aren't watching it.

 

[SCondeck]

Thank you for the positive thinking, Uptown. I think she has taken the TV as well so I may have a day or two of silence. Well there's always the bar. . .

It's just a battle with time. I know this will get better and that in the long run, she's doing me a favor. Hopefully the sadness and feelings of grief and loss will pass as soon as possible.

I've read your posts and "My List of Hell." You've definately been through the fire so when you say it get's better I will take your word for it.

Hopefully she at least left me some beer in the fridge.