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We see a lot of men in really bad situations on this forum.
Some can be helped, and are willing to do the work and the hard things to take control of themselves and their situation, to improve themselves and their outcomes, whether they remain married or not.

But many (probably the majority) are not. So many are either too wrapped up in flawed mental models or ineffective mindsets to understand / accept the reality of their situation - or too weak and unwilling / incapable of taking action to fix or leave their bad situation.
So they just wallow in their indecision, weakness and victimhood.
And posters here often tell them things like “you deserve better than this” and “you can do better” or similar. And we often push them to manifest some dignity and self-respect.

But it occurred to me that maybe reality is a bit more Darwinian than that.
Maybe there is a percentage of men who actually can’t or won’t do better, and maybe their crappy situation IS what they deserve.
Like respect, self-respect is earned, and maybe they’ve never done anything to earn it. Maybe they’re just not capable of it.
Maybe they never developed any inherent dignity within themselves.
Maybe the reality is that there is a significant percentage of men out there who are just less competent, less dignified, less valuable as men.

My general instinct has always been to believe that every human being is capable of being more, being better, being strong and competent, being respectable, if they choose to. And I’ve seen the foolish become wise and the weak become strong, and it’s a beautiful thing.
But maybe that doesn’t apply to everyone. And maybe there’s just a (seemingly growing) portion of men who are just inherently substandard and incapable as men.
 

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We see a lot of men in really bad situations on this forum.
Some can be helped, and are willing to do the work and the hard things to take control of themselves and their situation, to improve themselves and their outcomes, whether they remain married or not.

But many (probably the majority) are not. So many are either too wrapped up in flawed mental models or ineffective mindsets to understand / accept the reality of their situation - or too weak and unwilling / incapable of taking action to fix or leave their bad situation.
So they just wallow in their indecision, weakness and victimhood.
And posters here often tell them things like “you deserve better than this” and “you can do better” or similar. And we often push them to manifest some dignity and self-respect.

But it occurred to me that maybe reality is a bit more Darwinian than that.
Maybe there is a percentage of men who actually can’t or won’t do better, and maybe their crappy situation IS what they deserve.
Like respect, self-respect is earned, and maybe they’ve never done anything to earn it. Maybe they’re just not capable of it.
Maybe they never developed any inherent dignity within themselves.
Maybe the reality is that there is a significant percentage of men out there who are just less competent, less dignified, less valuable as men.

My general instinct has always been to believe that every human being is capable of being more, being better, being strong and competent, being respectable, if they choose to. And I’ve seen the foolish become wise and the weak become strong, and it’s a beautiful thing.
But maybe that doesn’t apply to everyone. And maybe there’s just a (seemingly growing) portion of men who are just inherently substandard and incapable as men.
They have a fear of being alone and what they have, as poor as it might be, is better than being alone in their minds.
 

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The average Western male has been beaten down so much that he will accept almost anything. I get it. I'm well above average in many ways but I've been there myself. You go on a dating site without knowing how horrible it is, just to be ignored by at least 90%+ of the female population. You can't talk to women at work, the gym, or almost anywhere else because that's seen as evil, catcalling, patriarchal behavior. If you have any real problems in life, you can't count on anyone to stand with you and help you with them. You can't even talk about them. If that guy, and trust me, that is MANY guys these days, finds a woman that will at least keep him company, even if she treats him rather poorly and almost openly cheats on him...he is going to be tempted to stick around. What alternative does he have? Start OLD back up and get ignored by all women ever? At least with his cheating wife/GF he can maybe pretend in his head that she cares about him.
 

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There was a guy on here yesterday talking about how his girlfriend and himself got on a train and for the entire seventy five minute journey his girlfriend (of two months) ignored him and talked to two other men in a language that the op didn’t understand.
When they got off the train he dumped her and he got a lot of people here telling him that he was wrong. Telling him that he should have communicated to her that he was lonely and could they speak English (which they could incidentally) so that he could join in her conversation. Also telling him she didn’t understand that her behaviour was inappropriate and he needed to explain.
If your girlfriend doesn’t understand why you would be pissed because she ignored you to talk to strange men then the only communication she needed was what she got.
 

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We see a lot of men in really bad situations on this forum.
Some can be helped, and are willing to do the work and the hard things to take control of themselves and their situation, to improve themselves and their outcomes, whether they remain married or not.

But many (probably the majority) are not. So many are either too wrapped up in flawed mental models or ineffective mindsets to understand / accept the reality of their situation - or too weak and unwilling / incapable of taking action to fix or leave their bad situation.
So they just wallow in their indecision, weakness and victimhood.
And posters here often tell them things like “you deserve better than this” and “you can do better” or similar. And we often push them to manifest some dignity and self-respect.

But it occurred to me that maybe reality is a bit more Darwinian than that.
Maybe there is a percentage of men who actually can’t or won’t do better, and maybe their crappy situation IS what they deserve.
Like respect, self-respect is earned, and maybe they’ve never done anything to earn it. Maybe they’re just not capable of it.
Maybe they never developed any inherent dignity within themselves.
Maybe the reality is that there is a significant percentage of men out there who are just less competent, less dignified, less valuable as men.

My general instinct has always been to believe that every human being is capable of being more, being better, being strong and competent, being respectable, if they choose to. And I’ve seen the foolish become wise and the weak become strong, and it’s a beautiful thing.
But maybe that doesn’t apply to everyone. And maybe there’s just a (seemingly growing) portion of men who are just inherently substandard and incapable as men.
this is maybe a result of womens emancipation and increasing aggression against all men have stood for through the ages.its like a pendulum,first men had all the power now its swinging away and many men are now confused and trying to understand their place in the new age of women.
 

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And maybe there’s just a (seemingly growing) portion of men who are just inherently substandard and incapable as men.
The average Western male has been beaten down so much that he will accept almost anything.
This IMO is a "feature" of the "developed" western world, the USA in particular. Any population is a continuum, so of course there is a portion of men who would be "substandard" and "incapable". Mostly because they were never taught or mentored by a confident male as they were maturing. I have no idea what percentage of the population that portion amounts to. None of the men I have contact with are in that portion. I suspect it may be an attribute of the younger generations but don't know. None of my younger relatives have any problems with the opposite sex, their romantic lives are very successful and they aren't "beaten down" at all.

Maybe this site automatically selects the portion you are talking about. I mean what confident man would be writing to internet strangers asking if he ought to let his "wife" go bang some strangers while he watches? I think the vast majority of males, confident or not, would just tell her to go bang all she could find on her own time and file for divorce yesterday.
 

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This IMO is a "feature" of the "developed" western world, the USA in particular. Any population is a continuum, so of course there is a portion of men who would be "substandard" and "incapable". Mostly because they were never taught or mentored by a confident male as they were maturing. I have no idea what percentage of the population that portion amounts to. None of the men I have contact with are in that portion. I suspect it may be an attribute of the younger generations but don't know. None of my younger relatives have any problems with the opposite sex, their romantic lives are very successful and they aren't "beaten down" at all.

Maybe this site automatically selects the portion you are talking about. I mean what confident man would be writing to internet strangers asking if he ought to let his "wife" go bang some strangers while he watches? I think the vast majority of males, confident or not, would just tell her to go bang all she could find on her own time and file for divorce yesterday.
I would say that almost 70% of men in the US are lost
 

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I would say that almost 70% of men in the US are lost
That may be true, idk. But how much has that changed? Men were always spread across a spectrum of leaders and followers, weak and strong. I don't think we have a good way of telling how much is a recent phenomenon and how much is historically normal.

Having said that, I do believe this is a “feature” of the modern world and the wooseification pendulum has swung, and is still getting worse.

Add one more point...we’re on a relationship board where people bring their problems. Our visibility to the doormats of the world is maybe skewed? I hope?
 

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That may be true, idk. But how much has that changed? Men were always spread across a spectrum of leaders and followers, weak and strong. I don't think we have a good way of telling how much is a recent phenomenon and how much is historically normal.

Having said that, I do believe this is a “feature” of the modern world and the wooseification pendulum has swung, and is still getting worse.

Add one more point...we’re on a relationship board where people bring their problems. Our visibility to the doormats of the world is maybe skewed? I hope?
You may be right about our visibility being skewed but I can say that most of my friends and colleagues have issues too. So maybe it isn't that far off.
 

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Men are often blindsided by divorce or a breakup. And then our DNA kicks in and tells us we can fix it..meanwhile the woman is usually done at that point. So some men resort to anything…begging, crying, open marriages, other compromises..to try and save the relationship. That’s why so many end up on this site…looking for help and hope.

I think the demasculinization of men and the feminine movement have done more to harm marriages than anything. Sure that won’t sit well with some, but I firmly believe it.
 

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I think the demasculinization of men and the feminine movement have done more to harm marriages than anything. Sure that won’t sit well with some, but I firmly believe it.
Truth.

Not to say the feminine movements have been all bad, just thinking of what it is now? H to the No.
 

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We see a lot of men in really bad situations on this forum.
Some can be helped, and are willing to do the work and the hard things to take control of themselves and their situation, to improve themselves and their outcomes, whether they remain married or not.

But many (probably the majority) are not. So many are either too wrapped up in flawed mental models or ineffective mindsets to understand / accept the reality of their situation - or too weak and unwilling / incapable of taking action to fix or leave their bad situation.
So they just wallow in their indecision, weakness and victimhood.
And posters here often tell them things like “you deserve better than this” and “you can do better” or similar. And we often push them to manifest some dignity and self-respect.

But it occurred to me that maybe reality is a bit more Darwinian than that.
Maybe there is a percentage of men who actually can’t or won’t do better, and maybe their crappy situation IS what they deserve.
Like respect, self-respect is earned, and maybe they’ve never done anything to earn it. Maybe they’re just not capable of it.
Maybe they never developed any inherent dignity within themselves.
Maybe the reality is that there is a significant percentage of men out there who are just less competent, less dignified, less valuable as men.

My general instinct has always been to believe that every human being is capable of being more, being better, being strong and competent, being respectable, if they choose to. And I’ve seen the foolish become wise and the weak become strong, and it’s a beautiful thing.
But maybe that doesn’t apply to everyone. And maybe there’s just a (seemingly growing) portion of men who are just inherently substandard and incapable as men.
I have a friend (Roger) who for the last 30 years has complained to people about how badly his wife treats him.
Everything that went wrong and was wrong in his life he`d blame his wife.
He used to tell me, one day he`ll drive off into the sunset and be gone. I used to believe him and say, don`t do that. Took me years to realise that was all BS.
Another time one of our mutual friends (Terry) told Roger`s wife to show more respect towards her husband. When Roger found out he told Terry, how dare you speak to my wife like that and fell out with him.
Then over the years after listening to Roger gripe about his wife, it began to get boring and wear me down and so these days I only contact him rarely by email.
He married in 1982 and today he is 76 years old and still with her, they do not have children together, his wife has 2 children from a previous marriage and he complains about them too.
There are men that actually like to be dominated (simps) and in-fact their wives become substitute mothers.
He used to tell me, can`t do this or that today because his wife wants him to do something else.
These guys enjoy the poor me and crave for sympathy, I describe giving a semblance of being the long and suffering expecting others to feel pity for them.
In my mind these type of men are weak and pathetic and deserve the women they get, because we only get treated the way we let people treat us.
No sympathy for these guys and best avoided.
 

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I don't post much. But this one struck enough of a nerve that I thought I'd share my story.

My ex (33 year relationship, 28 year marriage, 11 year separation, 5 year divorce 'negotiation', still lawyered up about her mismanagement of (three) kids' trust funds) was 'non-supportive' from the start and got significantly worse every time there was a outside stressor on the family. We 'stayed together (through the separation) for the sake of the kids' and I have no regrets about that. Living in the New York Feminist Socialist Republic, she got half of my savings in excess of hers in the divorce. Given her lack of contribution to the family, unfair to me. But the 'ugly truth' is that 'no fault' divorce laws are what they are. I justify my 'sticking with it' through the stressful years as the benefit it accrued for my children. I was happier living alone during the separation and happier now to be divorced instead of married to her.
 

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They have a fear of being alone and what they have, as poor as it might be, is better than being alone in their minds.
I suppose a lot of people are a victim of inertia. The easiest thing to do when faced with a problem is nothing. Roof leaks, put a bucket under it. Wife cheats, make excuses for her. If they were adventuresome they would wonder what would life be like after dumping their problem. From a lot of the men writing in here wondering if she has an AP, when it is obvious to all of these internet strangers that she has had at least one for years, they can't see their life would actually be better with a dog instead of "married" to a cheating woman. A dog is faithful and loves unconditionally.
 

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They have a fear of being alone and what they have, as poor as it might be, is better than being alone in their minds.
Sad but true. Some the weakest ones actually need to be told when to come in out of the rain.
 
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