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If she has outright rejected you for 6 years straight, then who cares what you do? Does anything really matter?

What if you get caught? What's she going to do - cut you off??? Be mad at you?

She already hates you and has no feelings for you other than resentment and contempt.

Realistically will she even care? Will she even notice or is she so detached from you that she will simply be glad that you aren't around as much and aren't bugging her for sex anymore?

Would she divorce you if she finds out? Would you really care if she did?

Or would she be relieved that you are parking your boner somewhere else and she'll want you to keep paying the bills and rent?

Your marriage is already dead in the water, she already hates you and thinks you're an A-hole. What happens if you cheat and get caught - - she'll think you're more of an A-hole???

I mean what does she care? she doesn't want to touch you anyway and it's not like your going to give her herpes or anything.

And if this is what is need to push one of you over the edge to grow some balls/ovaries and finally get a divorce, then I say go for it.
He said he has four kids and thus this isn't just about him and his wife.

What if his kids find out? Is this the type of man he wants to show his kids that he is?

What if he got the other woman pregnant?

What if the OW husband found out and started banging on his door to confront him in front of his kids?

What if his wife found out and started telling his parents, his sibs, his friends, people at work?

His wife is dug in on the no sex. If he's a man of character and a good father, he does one of two things. Either gets into counseling with his wife to address her comments of he's "not been nice to her", to see if this may change things, and if it doesn't then he either accepts that being in a no sex marriage is just the way it is OR he ends the marriage because he wants to have a marriage with intimacy.

He has to look at himself in the mirror and like who and what he is and the decisions he makes. He does NOT do what cowards do and that's sneaking around and cheating not just on his wife but risking blowing up his kids world.

OP, all this OW was doing is fishing to see if there's a crink in your marriage and if there is she could start to share what's wrong with her marriage as well and the two of you start to get close to one another and you know where this heads.

How much longer do you think you can go in a sexless marriage? Do what you have to do to "try" and fix it and if after doing this (counseling) you find that it's not you have a major decision to make.

Our lives are about the choices we make. Don't choose to be a coward and cheat on your wife even if it's sexless. Your wife finds out you cheated and she divorces you trust me your kids are going to blame you for their family being blown up.

If you get into counseling, and things don't change, yes you could still divorce, and as far as your kids are concerned it will be about other issues NOT that you cheated on their mom.

Choose wisely how you move forward.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Answering some questions:

my wife thought marriage would be a little different. She thought she was marrying a guy just like her father- who’s a very good guy. I like him. he’s always good to me and my kids. I’m different than him.

the four kids are little and require hard work. She is a great mother and I’m a good father. She says I could do more around the house. We have argued. Never anything violent just a few unkind words.

we never had sex prior to marriage. She was a bit resistant to sex on honeymoon but she said yes twice. During our first year of marriage she refused to have sex for a six month period. Her reason was that it didn’t feel good - physical problems. She refused to do anything about it (never saw a doctor). she sort a of raised that as a reason not to have sex for a few years on occasion but on other occasions cited other reasons. For a few years we had sex about 5-10 times. She instigated it twice during our marriage when she wanted children

On the few occasions we had sex she’d jokingly make fun of me just a little the next day. She hates any type of foreplay and absolutely refuses to discuss our sex life. in 17 years she’s never been willing to discuss it at length at all .

I suggested marriage counseling but she said we should only talk to her parents about our marriage or a close friend of theirs. I don’t want that.

A good friend of mine describes me as a great father and a good husband - but not great. He describes my wife as an amazing mother but disinterested wife. She’s extremely well liked and always very kind to others. My friend Said I’m an A father, B husband. Says she’s an A+ mom, C/D wife. Everyone we know loves her.

Prior to marriage I had several long term girlfriends. Very healthy relationships with excellent sex. They just weren’t the ones. As I said my wife never had a boyfriend but no premarital intercourse. she had no real dating life. she’d fool around with guys that were interested in her but zero sex. The odd part is guys didn’t ask her on dates. Only hook ups. She has always had many friends and makes them very easily.
 

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Here’s my advice:
  1. Initiate divorce. Tell everyone it’s for sexual abandonment. Tell your kids their mother broke the covenant.
  2. Tell your ex you’re initiating divorce due to sexual abandonment. Tell her if she also has reason to divorce to do so, and you’ll connect when you’re both single.
I urge you to not model a vacuous marriage to your kids. You’re setting them up for failure in their future relationships if you stay in this farce of a marriage.
 

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She was a bit resistant to sex on honeymoon but she said yes twice. During our first year of marriage she refused to have sex for a six month period
These were EPIC red flags you ignored. For anyone young reading this, he should have dealt with this immediately and WAY before agreeing to have children with this sex-averse woman.
 

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He said he has four kids and thus this isn't just about him and his wife.

#1: What if his kids find out? Is this the type of man he wants to show his kids that he is?

#2: What if he got the other woman pregnant?

#3: What if the OW husband found out and started banging on his door to confront him in front of his kids?

#4: What if his wife found out and started telling his parents, his sibs, his friends, people at work?

#5: His wife is dug in on the no sex. If he's a man of character and a good father, he does one of two things. Either gets into counseling with his wife to address her comments of he's "not been nice to her", to see if this may change things, and if it doesn't then he either accepts that being in a no sex marriage is just the way it is OR he ends the marriage because he wants to have a marriage with intimacy.

#6: He has to look at himself in the mirror and like who and what he is and the decisions he makes. He does NOT do what cowards do and that's sneaking around and cheating not just on his wife but risking blowing up his kids world.

OP, all this OW was doing is fishing to see if there's a crink in your marriage and if there is she could start to share what's wrong with her marriage as well and the two of you start to get close to one another and you know where this heads.

How much longer do you think you can go in a sexless marriage? Do what you have to do to "try" and fix it and if after doing this (counseling) you find that it's not you have a major decision to make.

#7: Our lives are about the choices we make. Don't choose to be a coward and cheat on your wife even if it's sexless. Your wife finds out you cheated and she divorces you trust me your kids are going to blame you for their family being blown up.

If you get into counseling, and things don't change, yes you could still divorce, and as far as your kids are concerned it will be about other issues NOT that you cheated on their mom.
#1: Do you mean show them that he is a living, breathing, autonomous human being that has needs going beyond being an ATM and domestic servant that has no life other than serving them?? Yeah, that would be a terrible thing to show them that a man can't go a mere 6 years with no love or intimacy before he acts up.

#2: A Google search will show that there has been this thing called contraception that has come about in the last 60 years or so.

#3: That is a risk he needs to take into account and see if he's willing to risk that.

#4: First off, most won't give a hoot. Others will wonder what took him so long. A few will high five him and pat him on the back for finally doing something. and a few will just roll their eyes and shake their heads.

The follow up question is what would HER friends and family think about it once they find out she has browbeat and rejected him for 6 years?

#5: I do agree with you on most of this. He simply needs to grow a pair and get a spine implant and take some affirmative action to address his dead marriage and pathetic existence. I agree It's better to take positive action before doing drastic. But in the big scheme of things, if his hots for this other chick are what gives him the motivation he needs to take action, then so be it.

#6: A couple things here. I agree with the mirror thing and that is where he is at now. I question the assumption that she will divorce him over this however. She obviously doesn't like him and repulsed at the thought of any intimacy with him and says he not nice to her. But yet she's not divorcing him. that means she is in it for the money and his labor and child care assistance.

So will she even care if he is playing hide the sausage with some other chick? Will she be downright relieved and welcoming of not having him bugging her all the time?

As far as the kids, in the big scheme of things, they need to learn about cause and effect. Yeah the ol' man got with some other chick. But is it in their best interests to grow up thinking that a man is only there to be a work horse, hand over his paycheck and be a domestic servant and babysitter the rest of his life without having his own wants and needs addressed??

If the dude is an A-hole, they'll be glad to see him gone and they'll be better off for it. If he is a loving and supporting father, they need to see that loving and supportive fathers have needs too and there is no reason he can't continue to be a loving and supportive father after the divorce if it comes to that.
 

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#1: Do you mean show them that he is a living, breathing, autonomous human being that has needs going beyond being an ATM and domestic servant that has no life other than serving them?? Yeah, that would be a terrible thing to show them that a man can't go a mere 6 years with no love or intimacy before he acts up.
He can teach them that, while also teaching them that if you are in an unhappy marriage you LEAVE - you don't cheat.

Kids also won't give a flying **** about their dads sex life, all they will see is their father is a cheater. As adults, maybe they would understand. As kids, nope.

#2: A Google search will show that there has been this thing called contraception that has come about in the last 60 years or so.
That same Google search will tell you that those methods are not 100% effective. And don't say it's more effective when both partners are using birth control because someone who is willing to sleep with a married man isn't reliable or trustworthy.
 

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Prior to marriage I had several long term girlfriends. Very healthy relationships with excellent sex. They just weren’t the ones. As I said my wife never had a boyfriend but no premarital intercourse. she had no real dating life. she’d fool around with guys that were interested in her but zero sex. The odd part is guys didn’t ask her on dates. Only hook ups. She has always had many friends and makes them very easily.
Well, that's kind of what I thought too. Same story my wife gave me. And only after marriage I'm told she'd be fine with sex once or twice a month, if that (she was great at fooling around prior to marriage, and we did have sex (prior to marriage), but everything fell apart from the moment we did).

Imagine an alternative scenario. Imagine if she had a different past from what she told you, a past she wanted to keep secret. A double life that she hid from family and church, due to shame. Suppose she wasn't the person she claimed she was, on your honeymooon. Suppose she was racked with guilt over having had sex with a guy (or guys, in my case) prior to you, that she'd kept secret. Imagine having sex with you and having to pretend like you'd never had sex before. How awful an experience would that be for that person? And every single time sex comes up, it would bring up negative connotations for her, because it would remind her of the things she'd hidden from you, things she doesn't want to admit to.

Not saying this is the case for you, but there could be some trauma, self-induced (it doesn't always have to be from coercion), regarding sex, that she brought into the marriage. Especially if she comes from a religious background.

She needs individual counseling to deal with whatever she's dealing with. This requires a compassionate approach on your part, at least initially. I'd also do some background work on her past. My wife didn't come around until I actually talked with one of her ex's (from 40+ year ago!!!) and her story just blew to pieces.
 

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Here’s my advice:
  1. Initiate divorce. Tell everyone it’s for sexual abandonment. Tell your kids their mother broke the covenant.
  2. Tell your ex you’re initiating divorce due to sexual abandonment. Tell her if she also has reason to divorce to do so, and you’ll connect when you’re both single.
No one is entitled to know why someone else divorces. No reason to point fingers at the mom to the kids.

"We no longer wanted to remain married together.." is good enough.
 

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I’m a 45 year old husband married 17 years with 4 children. Sex has always been a problem and my wife has left me sexless (zero) for last six years. My wife is healthy, pretty but has no physical interest in me. I’m confident she hasn’t cheated. I have asked for sex many times but she always says no and claims I’m simply not nice enough to her to make her want to have sex.

We get along ok but not great. I still love her, but doubt she loves me, although she says she does. For obvious reasons I resent her satisfaction with not having sex or any physical intimacy with me. She is very willing to never have sex with me and just raise the kids. Divorce is not being considered.

I recently was contacted by a former girlfriend (from 20 years ago) out of nowhere. She’s married with kids. We were in love for years and had incredible sex together. I literally haven’t thought about her in years and we don’t have any current friends in common. She said she thinks of me fairly often, sometimes dreams about me and just wants to know how I am.
Our talk was personal, nostalgic and we both discussed our lives. I never suggested my marriage has any problems. She said her marriage was ok. Nothing more. She said she’d like to see me with a group of old friends. No mention of spouses. She didn’t flirt with me but was very interested in catching up.

Two questions: 1. Do you think old girlfriend is trying to approach me for an affair or was it just a bit of nostalgia for her? 2. Is it wrong of me to have a sexual relationship with her in light of my wife’s complete and total refusal to have a sexual relationship with me? Is that really cheating?

Any other general thoughts welcome.
1. Likely yes

2. Only if your wife — along with your ex’s husband — is unaware of it and not OK with it.
 

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Answering some questions:

my wife thought marriage would be a little different. She thought she was marrying a guy just like her father- who’s a very good guy. I like him. he’s always good to me and my kids. I’m different than him.

the four kids are little and require hard work. She is a great mother and I’m a good father. She says I could do more around the house. We have argued. Never anything violent just a few unkind words.

we never had sex prior to marriage. She was a bit resistant to sex on honeymoon but she said yes twice. During our first year of marriage she refused to have sex for a six month period. Her reason was that it didn’t feel good - physical problems. She refused to do anything about it (never saw a doctor). she sort a of raised that as a reason not to have sex for a few years on occasion but on other occasions cited other reasons. For a few years we had sex about 5-10 times. She instigated it twice during our marriage when she wanted children

On the few occasions we had sex she’d jokingly make fun of me just a little the next day. She hates any type of foreplay and absolutely refuses to discuss our sex life. in 17 years she’s never been willing to discuss it at length at all .

I suggested marriage counseling but she said we should only talk to her parents about our marriage or a close friend of theirs. I don’t want that.

A good friend of mine describes me as a great father and a good husband - but not great. He describes my wife as an amazing mother but disinterested wife. She’s extremely well liked and always very kind to others. My friend Said I’m an A father, B husband. Says she’s an A+ mom, C/D wife. Everyone we know loves her.

Prior to marriage I had several long term girlfriends. Very healthy relationships with excellent sex. They just weren’t the ones. As I said my wife never had a boyfriend but no premarital intercourse. she had no real dating life. she’d fool around with guys that were interested in her but zero sex. The odd part is guys didn’t ask her on dates. Only hook ups. She has always had many friends and makes them very easily.
In other words, you two are roommates and coparents.

Any reason you can't remain good coparents without being roommates so each of you can move on to find people you are compatible with?

The Bible Brigade will tell you that divorce will "destroy the children" and they will cite statistics from faith-based agenda organizations that show kids have problems after divorce and that they will always be harmed by the divorce regardless of the circumstances or conditions.

Children are harmed by abuse, neglect, abandonment, alcoholism/drug abuse and living in an environment of chronic hostility and resentment, fighting etc.

Children are not harmed by two loving and supportive children that happen to live in separate houses.

You married a very low sex, darn near asexual woman that had no sexual attraction or desire for you. You've never had a good sex life and now you have had NO sex life for SIX YEARS. This is dead in the water. You got nuth'n to work with here.

Your options are -

- continue to spank to porn and live the rest of your life sexless and without intimacy.

- Declare yourself sexually emancipated and open the marriage and see what you are able to obtain on the side as a married man.

- incur and accept the risks of sneaking around on the down low and take your chances.

- Divorce and date and hook up however you want and however you are able.

Those are your options. Each has it's own costs and benefits and risks and rewards.
 

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I would ask your wife to accompany you to councelling and perhaps see her doctor about her lack of sex drive. Your current situation is not good.Add in an old flame and boom........an affair begins.
We don't know that she has a lack of sex drive. She's made it clear he's not nice enough to her that she wants to make love to him. Seems clear enough to me.
 

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Two questions: 1. Do you think old girlfriend is trying to approach me for an affair or was it just a bit of nostalgia for her? 2. Is it wrong of me to have a sexual relationship with her in light of my wife’s complete and total refusal to have a sexual relationship with me? Is that really cheating?

Any other general thoughts welcome.
1. yes
2. It's not wrong if you expressed your dissatisfaction to your wife and she chose to do nothing about it. At that point, I wouldn't feel guilty about having sex with someone else. Perhaps that might kick her into gear.
 

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Somebody really warped her brain about sex. She's got hang-ups so deep you don't understand them. Still doesn't justify cheating.

You need to go to MC & she needs to talk to someone about how she has twisted sex from something beautiful between two people who love each other into something to be feared & avoided because it's uncomfortable. You aren't going to persuade of her of this without real professional help.
 

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This is your fault for tolerating this for so long. Sex is an expectation (actually a key foundational pillar) of marriage.

Clearly your wife is either 1. asexual (she’s not, that’s extraordinarily rare), or 2. just not sexually attracted to you.
Either way, it’s unacceptable in a marriage and she has broken your marriage vows.

why have you tolerated this for so long? It’s your responsibility to ensure that your needs are being met in your marriage. It’s your responsibility to decide what your expectations are and what you will and will not accept in your marriage. It’s your responsibility to lead your marriage.

Unfortunately, it seems pretty clear that you’ve been passive and not leading in your marriage. Women despise weak, passive men and almost always treat them poorly.
Your wife is not following your lead, does not respect you, is not attracted to you and won’t **** you. That’s not a marriage dude.

The point is, you need to take control of your disinterested wife/sexless marriage situation and either drastically improve it, or disengage from it and divorce, before worrying about the ex girlfriend.
You have a lot of work to do on yourself and possibly your marriage if you choose to.

You need to take the next six months (at least) and focus on becoming the kind of man who would not tolerate a passionless, sexless marriage and a disinterested wife.
At that point, you’ll be in a much better position to make good decisions, and hopefully have the strength and confidence to change or leave your current situation.

I’ll probably have a lot of people disagreeing with me on this last point but I would keep the ex girlfriend around, but on hold.

Engage with her casually online. Keep it friendly and don’t start an affair with her. That will only make things worse.
Your marriage situation is very bad, and having options (or developing the ability to have options) is actually extremely important for your ability to fix or leave your current situation. Just don’t do anything stupid in the meantime.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
This is your fault for tolerating this for so long. Sex is an expectation (actually a key foundational pillar) of marriage.

Clearly your wife is either 1. asexual (she’s not, that’s extraordinarily rare), or 2. just not sexually attracted to you.
Either way, it’s unacceptable in a marriage and she has broken your marriage vows.

why have you tolerated this for so long? It’s your responsibility to ensure that your needs are being met in your marriage. It’s your responsibility to decide what your expectations are and what you will and will not accept in your marriage. It’s your responsibility to lead your marriage.

Unfortunately, it seems pretty clear that you’ve been passive and not leading in your marriage. Women despise weak, passive men and almost always treat them poorly.
Your wife is not following your lead, does not respect you, is not attracted to you and won’t **** you. That’s not a marriage dude.

The point is, you need to take control of your disinterested wife/sexless marriage situation and either drastically improve it, or disengage from it and divorce, before worrying about the ex girlfriend.
You have a lot of work to do on yourself and possibly your marriage if you choose to.

You need to take the next six months (at least) and focus on becoming the kind of man who would not tolerate a passionless, sexless marriage and a disinterested wife.
At that point, you’ll be in a much better position to make good decisions, and hopefully have the strength and confidence to change or leave your current situation.

I’ll probably have a lot of people disagreeing with me on this last point but I would keep the ex girlfriend around, but on hold.

Engage with her casually online. Keep it friendly and don’t start an affair with her. That will only make things worse.
Your marriage situation is very bad, and having options (or developing the ability to have options) is actually extremely important for your ability to fix or leave your current situation. Just don’t do anything stupid in the meantime.
I think you make an excellent point that some of this is of my own making. I let it happen. Fundamentally she never changed. She just downshifted from rarely to never agreeing to sex.

I have wondered if she may be gay. By her upbringing, the worst thing a person can be is gay. The second worst thing is being sexual.

what about having sex with a sex worker instead of an affair with an ex? It’s very hard to think my sex life is over. Divorce is out of the question. I literally will die if I don’t have my children. They’re all I have in my life.
 

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I’m a 45 year old husband married 17 years with 4 children. Sex has always been a problem and my wife has left me sexless (zero) for last six years. My wife is healthy, pretty but has no physical interest in me. I’m confident she hasn’t cheated. I have asked for sex many times but she always says no and claims I’m simply not nice enough to her to make her want to have sex.

We get along ok but not great. I still love her, but doubt she loves me, although she says she does. For obvious reasons I resent her satisfaction with not having sex or any physical intimacy with me. She is very willing to never have sex with me and just raise the kids. Divorce is not being considered.

I recently was contacted by a former girlfriend (from 20 years ago) out of nowhere. She’s married with kids. We were in love for years and had incredible sex together. I literally haven’t thought about her in years and we don’t have any current friends in common. She said she thinks of me fairly often, sometimes dreams about me and just wants to know how I am.
Our talk was personal, nostalgic and we both discussed our lives. I never suggested my marriage has any problems. She said her marriage was ok. Nothing more. She said she’d like to see me with a group of old friends. No mention of spouses. She didn’t flirt with me but was very interested in catching up.

Two questions: 1. Do you think old girlfriend is trying to approach me for an affair or was it just a bit of nostalgia for her? 2. Is it wrong of me to have a sexual relationship with her in light of my wife’s complete and total refusal to have a sexual relationship with me? Is that really cheating?

Any other general thoughts welcome.
Are you really asking if it's ok to nail another man's wife?
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Are you really asking if it's ok to nail another man's wife?
I suppose I’m wondering if that’s why she resurfaced. Obviously it’s not ok to sleep with a married woman. It’s been 17 years and I’ve never done anything like that. Total fidelity. But I do wonder if my wife has abandoned her marital vows to me when she unilaterally brought an end to my sex life.
 
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