[oldshirt]

If she has outright rejected you for 6 years straight, then who cares what you do? Does anything really matter?

What if you get caught? What's she going to do - cut you off??? Be mad at you?

She already hates you and has no feelings for you other than resentment and contempt.

Realistically will she even care? Will she even notice or is she so detached from you that she will simply be glad that you aren't around as much and aren't bugging her for sex anymore?

Would she divorce you if she finds out? Would you really care if she did?

Or would she be relieved that you are parking your boner somewhere else and she'll want you to keep paying the bills and rent?

Your marriage is already dead in the water, she already hates you and thinks you're an A-hole. What happens if you cheat and get caught - - she'll think you're more of an A-hole???

I mean what does she care? she doesn't want to touch you anyway and it's not like your going to give her herpes or anything.

And if this is what is need to push one of you over the edge to grow some balls/ovaries and finally get a divorce, then I say go for it.

 

[oldshirt]

Divorce is not being considered.

That's you're main problem right there.

 

[oldshirt]

This can't go well. Does your wife know the ex? Could this be a set up?

Or he gets suckered in to providing his wife evidence for a divorce?

While that might make an entertaining Lifetime Network movie, that's a lot of unnecessary work and espionage. He has an american flag by his name so she doesn't need evidence if she wants a divorce, she just needs to fill out the paperwork and pay the fees.

If she's willing to go through that kind of trouble to scheme and scam in order to prove he's the A-hole, then he either falls for the bait, she divorces him and he is a free man that go out and screw whatever he wants and do whatever he wants.

Or he's the good little boy and passes her test so he gets to stay in a dead marriage and continue to be rejected for another 6 years by someone that can't stand him.

 

[oldshirt]

I I have asked for sex many times but she always says no and claims I’m simply not nice enough to her to make her want to have sex.

OK, let's all break this down and talk about this a little more in depth.

Her saying he's nice enough to have sex with him is one of two things -

One is that he is the A-hole and is a drunkard and abusive and neglectful and nasty.

The other is that he is spineless simp that spends his days chasing his tail trying to appease her and make her happy and like Lucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown every time she has him convinced she'll play nice, he can never seem to appease her enough and she just wants more.

So let's look at what information we have starting with the fact that they haven't had sex in 6 years and she has her heels dug in that she will NOT be entertaining that idea. Would an A-hole go 6 years without sex???

He says he has "asked" for sex many times but she says no. Do A-holes "ask" for sex?

They have been married for 17 years and the sex has never been good. Do A-holes stick around for 17 years with bad sex?

The way he has clung on to hope that this ex wants to bang him, leads me to believe he has not cheated before or has only done so very rarely in the distant past if at all. Would an A-hole have gone 11 years of bad sex and 6 years of no sex without getting some tail elsewhere?

He is questioning whether the ex has an agenda and is questioning whether this would even be cheating or not. Would an A-hole question the morality and would an A-hole even question her motives or not??

And would an A-hole even take the time and effort to write to a marriage and relationship forum about the intentions of an ex contacting him and the ethics of getting with her, or would an A-hole have had her legs over his shoulders within days of her contacting him if that was her intent??????

So when she says he needs to be "nicer", what does she really mean? Does she mean he needs to stop coming home from the bar and pushing her around and quit picking up bar flies for BJs in the parking lot and at least picking up a jug of milk on his way home where there is no food in the house?

Or does it mean he's not picking the blades of grass out of the cracks in the sidewalk the way she wants him to and he doesn't tuck his shoelaces in his shoes the closet the way she showed him time and time again??

 

[oldshirt]

He said he has four kids and thus this isn't just about him and his wife.

#1: What if his kids find out? Is this the type of man he wants to show his kids that he is?

#2: What if he got the other woman pregnant?

#3: What if the OW husband found out and started banging on his door to confront him in front of his kids?

#4: What if his wife found out and started telling his parents, his sibs, his friends, people at work?

#5: His wife is dug in on the no sex. If he's a man of character and a good father, he does one of two things. Either gets into counseling with his wife to address her comments of he's "not been nice to her", to see if this may change things, and if it doesn't then he either accepts that being in a no sex marriage is just the way it is OR he ends the marriage because he wants to have a marriage with intimacy.

#6: He has to look at himself in the mirror and like who and what he is and the decisions he makes. He does NOT do what cowards do and that's sneaking around and cheating not just on his wife but risking blowing up his kids world.

OP, all this OW was doing is fishing to see if there's a crink in your marriage and if there is she could start to share what's wrong with her marriage as well and the two of you start to get close to one another and you know where this heads.

How much longer do you think you can go in a sexless marriage? Do what you have to do to "try" and fix it and if after doing this (counseling) you find that it's not you have a major decision to make.

#7: Our lives are about the choices we make. Don't choose to be a coward and cheat on your wife even if it's sexless. Your wife finds out you cheated and she divorces you trust me your kids are going to blame you for their family being blown up.

If you get into counseling, and things don't change, yes you could still divorce, and as far as your kids are concerned it will be about other issues NOT that you cheated on their mom.

#1: Do you mean show them that he is a living, breathing, autonomous human being that has needs going beyond being an ATM and domestic servant that has no life other than serving them?? Yeah, that would be a terrible thing to show them that a man can't go a mere 6 years with no love or intimacy before he acts up.

#2: A Google search will show that there has been this thing called contraception that has come about in the last 60 years or so.

#3: That is a risk he needs to take into account and see if he's willing to risk that.

#4: First off, most won't give a hoot. Others will wonder what took him so long. A few will high five him and pat him on the back for finally doing something. and a few will just roll their eyes and shake their heads.

The follow up question is what would HER friends and family think about it once they find out she has browbeat and rejected him for 6 years?

#5: I do agree with you on most of this. He simply needs to grow a pair and get a spine implant and take some affirmative action to address his dead marriage and pathetic existence. I agree It's better to take positive action before doing drastic. But in the big scheme of things, if his hots for this other chick are what gives him the motivation he needs to take action, then so be it.

#6: A couple things here. I agree with the mirror thing and that is where he is at now. I question the assumption that she will divorce him over this however. She obviously doesn't like him and repulsed at the thought of any intimacy with him and says he not nice to her. But yet she's not divorcing him. that means she is in it for the money and his labor and child care assistance.

So will she even care if he is playing hide the sausage with some other chick? Will she be downright relieved and welcoming of not having him bugging her all the time?

As far as the kids, in the big scheme of things, they need to learn about cause and effect. Yeah the ol' man got with some other chick. But is it in their best interests to grow up thinking that a man is only there to be a work horse, hand over his paycheck and be a domestic servant and babysitter the rest of his life without having his own wants and needs addressed??

If the dude is an A-hole, they'll be glad to see him gone and they'll be better off for it. If he is a loving and supporting father, they need to see that loving and supportive fathers have needs too and there is no reason he can't continue to be a loving and supportive father after the divorce if it comes to that.

 

[oldshirt]

Here’s my advice:

1. Initiate divorce. Tell everyone it’s for sexual abandonment. Tell your kids their mother broke the covenant.
2. Tell your ex you’re initiating divorce due to sexual abandonment. Tell her if she also has reason to divorce to do so, and you’ll connect when you’re both single.

No one is entitled to know why someone else divorces. No reason to point fingers at the mom to the kids.

"We no longer wanted to remain married together.." is good enough.

 

[oldshirt]

Answering some questions:

my wife thought marriage would be a little different. She thought she was marrying a guy just like her father- who’s a very good guy. I like him. he’s always good to me and my kids. I’m different than him.

the four kids are little and require hard work. She is a great mother and I’m a good father. She says I could do more around the house. We have argued. Never anything violent just a few unkind words.

we never had sex prior to marriage. She was a bit resistant to sex on honeymoon but she said yes twice. During our first year of marriage she refused to have sex for a six month period. Her reason was that it didn’t feel good - physical problems. She refused to do anything about it (never saw a doctor). she sort a of raised that as a reason not to have sex for a few years on occasion but on other occasions cited other reasons. For a few years we had sex about 5-10 times. She instigated it twice during our marriage when she wanted children

On the few occasions we had sex she’d jokingly make fun of me just a little the next day. She hates any type of foreplay and absolutely refuses to discuss our sex life. in 17 years she’s never been willing to discuss it at length at all .

I suggested marriage counseling but she said we should only talk to her parents about our marriage or a close friend of theirs. I don’t want that.

A good friend of mine describes me as a great father and a good husband - but not great. He describes my wife as an amazing mother but disinterested wife. She’s extremely well liked and always very kind to others. My friend Said I’m an A father, B husband. Says she’s an A+ mom, C/D wife. Everyone we know loves her.

Prior to marriage I had several long term girlfriends. Very healthy relationships with excellent sex. They just weren’t the ones. As I said my wife never had a boyfriend but no premarital intercourse. she had no real dating life. she’d fool around with guys that were interested in her but zero sex. The odd part is guys didn’t ask her on dates. Only hook ups. She has always had many friends and makes them very easily.

In other words, you two are roommates and coparents.

Any reason you can't remain good coparents without being roommates so each of you can move on to find people you are compatible with?

The Bible Brigade will tell you that divorce will "destroy the children" and they will cite statistics from faith-based agenda organizations that show kids have problems after divorce and that they will always be harmed by the divorce regardless of the circumstances or conditions.

Children are harmed by abuse, neglect, abandonment, alcoholism/drug abuse and living in an environment of chronic hostility and resentment, fighting etc.

Children are not harmed by two loving and supportive children that happen to live in separate houses.

You married a very low sex, darn near asexual woman that had no sexual attraction or desire for you. You've never had a good sex life and now you have had NO sex life for SIX YEARS. This is dead in the water. You got nuth'n to work with here.

Your options are -

- continue to spank to porn and live the rest of your life sexless and without intimacy.

- Declare yourself sexually emancipated and open the marriage and see what you are able to obtain on the side as a married man.

- incur and accept the risks of sneaking around on the down low and take your chances.

- Divorce and date and hook up however you want and however you are able.

Those are your options. Each has it's own costs and benefits and risks and rewards.

 

[oldshirt]

what about having sex with a sex worker instead of an affair with an ex? It’s very hard to think my sex life is over. Divorce is out of the question. I literally will die if I don’t have my children. They’re all I have in my life.

Dude! Nut up!!!

Your sex life is already over and will be forever if you allow it to be and you sit on your hands doing nothing and accepting this sham of a marriage.

Why is divorce out of the question??

Divorce is divorcing your wife and dead marriage, it's not divorcing your kids.

Most places are default joint custody so unless one parent is determined to be unfit by the court or they relinguish their parental rights.

With 50/50 you can still be a very involved parent with physical custody half the time and then on her days you can get out and have a life and do things and hang with buddies and get back into some hobbies and be able to date and find someone that actually likes you.

The reason you feel the kids are all that you have in life is because that what you have allowed to happen and you have lost your own self.

 

[oldshirt]

I suppose I’m wondering if that’s why she resurfaced. Obviously it’s not ok to sleep with a married woman. It’s been 17 years and I’ve never done anything like that. Total fidelity. But I do wonder if my wife has abandoned her marital vows to me when she unilaterally brought an end to my sex life.

You never had a sex life with her. She achieved conception with you when she wanted offspring.

You have been nothing more than a paycheck, a domestic servant, a sperm donor and assistant child care provider for her.

 

[oldshirt]

The answer is yes. But there is a lot of faulty teaching about married sexuality. Your wife may be following a traditional view held in her family-of-origin. The unfortunate part about this is that these beliefs can be staunchly held-to when people don't want sex. Your wife believes that depriving you of sex is "ok". She needs to be instructed that it is not "ok".

Many people feel that their body is their own, and they have a "right" to be sexual as they chooise. However, The Bible instructs otherwise to married people. The Old Testament laws were very clear that married people had an obligation to provide sex for each other. So does the Apostle Paul in the New Testament.

The unfortunate part about this is that many people are never taught BIBLICAL Christianity, even by their churches. Any Christian pastor worth his salt (and, who is indeed interested in being salt like His Lord commanded of him) would make sure there was a complete understanding between the applicants for his marriage declaration that neither of them was to withhold sex from the other, for any reason, except "brief times of prayer and fasting".....as the Bible instructs. Sickness, contagious situations, temporary circumstances may intervene in the sexual marriage from time to time, but they should be clearly the exception, and not the rule.

They've never had a good sex life and she has consistently rejected him for 6 years (I am assuming since the conception of the last child)

This is not a misunderstanding or misinterpretation of biblical sexuality.

It's that she doesn't like him, is not attracted to him and does not desire him.

 

[oldshirt]

what about having sex with a sex worker instead of an affair with an ex? It’s very hard to think my sex life is over. Divorce is out of the question.

What you are doing here whether with sex workers or an affair with your ex is you are essentially trying to have sex with other people in order to remain in your dead marriage with the dead fish that does not want to be with you.

Do you at least see the irony and contradiction there????

Do you at least see that you are compromising your own values and morals and subjecting yourself to all of the pitfalls of humiliations of having to pay for sex or cheating with a married woman, in order to STAY in a very toxic and unhealthy relationship that probably should not have ever been in the first place and that should have ended many years ago.

 

[oldshirt]

The potential misunderstanding / misrepresentation is that OP seems to think he shouldn’t divorce over it.

If you are assuming that his refusal to divorce is based on religious convictions, I'm not so sure.

He hasn't said a word about religious beliefs or convictions or anything pertaining to religion at all.

He hasn't even directly indicated that she even has any religious beliefs or convictions that are influencing her sexual disinterest. He said that she was brought up to believe that being gay was bad and being sexual was bad, but he has not said a word about religion.

If there are no strong religious convictions at play here, then it is a self-esteem and self confidence issue in that he does not think he can do better or deserves better or will be able to get anyone else.

If not due to religious conviction, it's weakness and lack of initiative and confidence.

 

[oldshirt]

She works outside home

which means she has an income and means to support herself which reduces or even eliminates your obligation to pay spousal support.

At least meet with a divorce attorney to get a good picture of what your rights, entitlements and responsibilities would be in the event of a divorce and find out what measures you can take to best protect your assets and relationships with the children.

This would be wise whether you contemplate divorce yourself or get with this other chick which could lead to divorce should she find out and want to dump you or whether you decide you want to dump her after discovering what it's like to be with someone that actually likes you.

 

[oldshirt]

just curious, how do you come off and say that OP has neglected his marriage ? It sounds like to me that his wife has neglected the marriage by being sexless and then gaslighting him. Just because she says 'he's not being nice' Doesn't mean he's 'not being nice'.

Plus just mentioning the possibility here of open marriage is horrible. Those relationships aren't pursued by 95 % of the people and of the 5% who try it, their divorce rates are horrific. This guy doesn't need to be screwing other women. He needs to take steps in order to fix it. He is not alone in sexless marriages but many do fix them and I feel he needs to have a ganeplan. BUT she is responsible for neglecting him sexually too.

@Casual Observer is correct, the OP has been neglectful and asleep at the wheel. He has allowed this to go on for many years without addressing the issues or holding her or himself accountable for the breakdown of the marriage.

She has never been into him sexually and only had sex for conception to get children out of him.

She got what she wanted out of the marriage and since he has not addressed his discontent with her or the marriage, it is questionable on how neglectful she has been.

In terms of open marriage, that is also a legitimate topic for discussion. She has made clear through word and deed that she does not want a sex life with him. There for he is well within his right to divorce her or if neither he nor she wish to divorce, then he is within his right to seek his needs elsewhere outside of the marriage.

I understand people's urgings for him to try to "fix" this. But read his posts, when he did ask to seek MC, she refused MC and said they could talk to HER PARENTS instead.

So you tell me - is there any hope for marriage that has never had an active sex life and has been completely sexless for 6 years and she would only agree to discuss their marital issues with her parents?

This is a dead end and a done deal.

 

[oldshirt]

He addresses this in an earlier post.

She would not have sex with him prior to marriage and then was reluctant to have sex on the honeymoon and would mock and ridicule him the next day after sex.

 

[oldshirt]

My story is not on Reddit. I do take responsibility. I’ve already said that in a prior post. That’s why I have lived with it. I married her because I love her. I didn’t know this would happen. All marriages are a gamble…

All marriages are a gamble.

But some things stack the odds in your favor or against you. The fact she would not have sex with you prior to marriage, was reluctant to be intimate with you on your honeymoon, would mock and ridicule you after the few times you did have sex and only wanted to have sex for conception should have been major clues. But yet you continued to plant babies in her and have remained with her for 17 years, 6 of which have been completely sexless.

But that is all water under the bridge and without a time machine, you can't go back and change that.

But tomorrow is a new day,,, You can change the course of your future. Just because you made mistakes in the past does not mean you are condemned to continue with those mistakes.

The one thing that is worse than 17 years of a dead marriage is 17 years and a day.

 

[oldshirt]

It's true that you didn't know this would happen, and it's not the case with every marriage that waits until marriage. However, the red flags were coming up as early as your honeymoon. This "marriage" could have ended shortly after it began, and certainly before children entered the picture.

The religious community has played a big joke on the world in getting people to believe that no one should have any kind of sexual relations prior to marriage, but if they manage to hold out that they will miraculously be blessed with a wonderful sex life after marriage.

To that, the OP was duped to a degree and sold a bad bill of goods by a greater conspiracy. He and countless other chumps.

Going forward I think the big clue on whether someone who is waiting for marriage due to strong religious convictions vs simply being a sexual dud is how comfortable and content are they waiting.

If it doesn't bother them a bit and they are perfectly fine to wait until the marriage and they have no trouble keeping you at arm's length and keep saying to wait until the wedding etc etc etc - they are simply either a sexual dud or they do not have any genuine desire for you.

On the other hand if they are yearning for touch and they making out with passion and their body is burning to melt with you and they are sincerely struggling to hold out until the wedding,,,, and heck there are even people that ascribe to the "Poophole Loophole" ,,,,,, there is at least some hope.

But if they are content to wait, push you away at arm's length at any kind of physical intimacy and are not bothered at all by not having sexual contact - Run Forest Run!!!!!!!

 

[oldshirt]

I think the reason she married me is because she had no options and she wanted family and friends to see she could find a husband.

You are probably correct.

So then the question before you is how willing are you to continue to be the chump and the fool?