My husband has a potential business trip in a couple months to a location he and I visited a few years ago. we had an amazing time and just as our kids were pretty much grown up, it was an opportunity to really be together as a couple.
8 months and 14 months consecutively after we went, he went again for business but was in a place emotionally that i was not aware of and he cheated both those times on the last night of each 3 day stay. I found this out to begin with 2 years ago, then found out about the 2nd person 1 year ago.
We have gone through all aspects of why and how, and what was going on for him and us during that time. We have been to counselling, read together and never at anytime was it an option for him to leave the marraige. It is not for me either. We are very committed and love each other very much.
That said, I am still dealing with the memories and because he disclosed all I have knowledge of the details. It has been most hurtful that these cheats happened in a place that we had such memorable times in. Now the city doesn't have the same feeling attached to it at all. I have grieved this loss in a big way. Sometimes I just want to be angry at the city (of course it's my husband I'm angry and hurt with).
This will be his last time going for the work related time he has been a part of this project. He has mixed feelings about going back and would just as soon not. We have talked about going together and this is his preference. I am not sure how I feel about it. On the one hand could we go to replace the negative feelings associated with it, or not waste my time and instead do something entirely different to have new memories.
Under the heading of not letting something control the outcome, should I go with my husband and change the outcome and would this somehow help our /my process?
Yes, you should go. If you don't then you could drive yourself crazy while he's gone. If you go then maybe you can over-write some of those bad memories.
All that anyone in your position could reasonably be expected to do is to have clear boundaries in place... and to then enforce them when they're broken.
Having said that, this is probably why you are in such turmoil...
...never at anytime was it an option for him to leave the marraige. It is not for me either.
It was not an option for me to leave because I have understanding and although he made a huge mistake, we have invested alot in the 24 years we've been together. So together we will be. Unless for some reason he has not healed properly and cannot stay faithful. That is the boundry, and it is clear.
It was not an option for me to leave because I have understanding and although he made a huge mistake, we have invested alot in the 24 years we've been together. So together we will be. Unless for some reason he has not healed properly and cannot stay faithful. That is the boundry, and it is clear.
Maybe a miscommunication on my part in my letter. Both cheats happened within an 8 month period during which I did not know of either. If we had turned things around, and then he repeated again I would view that as different.
They were both ONS and fortunately on second time he couldn't go thru with sex as he realized that it didn't resolve things the first time but was still looking for attention and feedback from someone. I spoke to the OW and she confirmed (without me asking directly) that they had not had sex. I know it sounds unbelievable, I did also for a long time. But knowing him and what his situation was at the time...it is likely that it is accurate. When I discovered the first one oct 2012, he did not tell me there had been a previous one earlier that year. He recognized the importance of disclosing all over time as we began our process , and a year later did. Since Oct 2012 we are cheat free.
What I'm saying is that after all we've gone thru, I consider both infidelities during that 8 month time as one overall hit to our marriage. I believe we have uncovered much during this last 2 years and remain more committed than before. Don't recommend this route for anyone, but it has caused some very real openness and change.
That said, he knows, and I know that now that we all know where everything is at. If there is that kind of insult to our marriage and me again, I would not feel any obligation to work through anymore and would not.
first time he was approached and it was an ego boost for him. He was definately in a space where he was needing something for himself. He thought having sex with another would fix his many issues he was dealing with at the time. 8 months later, same city, away from home, same headspace. no disclosure to me had happened about the first time. Second time he enjoyed intellectual company and purposefully orchestrated that. He manipulated things so he could receive positive feedback and validation of himself. They went back to his room, some brief intimacy but not sex that time. It worked for a short time. Lots of realizations and most important he has learned about himself and what he really wants and needs.
I made the decision to stay with him as he has been a loyal and extremely supportive, caring husband for 24 yrs! Never any guarantees in life, but we have the best chance possible now.
ha ha, that is an interesting tactic. We hold each other hard! He made the ultimate choice which is all on him. But people make choices when they are in pain as well. When they repeat after going thru the process, then they don't deserve the same understanding.
And so on.... In almost every post you make excuses for him. Now whatever process you used to arrive at your current frame of mind has some unique qualities. And all this is directly related to your question about your going to this city or not. If you had dealt with this effectively you wouldn't be here asking this question - you would know that whatever "situation" your husband was in, he cold bloodedly and selfishly cheated on you- it's as simple as that. He had no regard for your "joint" feelings about the city and it's memories. He crushed all those in one fell swoop. And now as part of his "heavy lifting" he has asked if he can go back there (because he has to for work) and, oh, of course you should come too so that "we can make new memories" (puh-leeze) and you are buying this. He got off scott free and instead you are trying to help him start all over and make new memories - all because he was in a "situation" at the time.
I am in agreement with Catherine on this - nothing sounds right about this. If you both go back it should be with you calling the shots e.g. go back when you feel like going back and not for his project; maybe you should go back there without him and let him stew for awhile (that's the sort of a$$ kicking I was talking about.
Please go if you want to keep your husband as after the kids left and having free time he may have been tempted for the first time in 20 years when he had the affairs (which is inexcusable)
Once some one has cheated the next time becomes easier for them no matter the resolve
He hadn't had to use any boundaries away from home like that for years
Was the scenario when he cheated, he got talking to a girl yadda yadda and she came on to him and was looking for a fling and he fell into it ?
He wants you to go so that is a great sign
My self after the 2nd time I would have devoiced my wife ...god knows if I could accept 1st time
It is your choice. I couldn't go and have been faced with the same scenario with my STBXW, and found that too many negatives overrode the positives we had built there with family prior and I couldn't shake the triggers (of course one of the "friends" she went with we had went to that city a few times with their entire family as get aways. I now question things that might have happened during such times there).
I think first you need to stop making excuses for him. I am glad you to are working through this, but saying things like he was broken and might not be healed and he made "mistakes" is helping no one. He knew what he was doing as he did it on 2 separate occasions and he hid it from you, which tells he knew exactly what he was doing and he knew how wrong it was. I had 16 years married and 20 years together and I couldn't do it, no matter how many years we had together and time and effort invested. I do empathize with you as I feel that all was for nought now when I look back upon our time together, but I pin that onto her actions.
Only you know whether you can handle this or not, but I would hate to think that I would have to fight for all my good memories again. I can't live that way.
My husband has a potential business trip in a couple months to a location he and I visited a few years ago... He has mixed feelings about going back and would just as soon not. We have talked about going together and this is his preference.
Is not going at all an option? If so, that would be my choice -- neither of you go.
I think it will be a HUGE trigger for you, and I can't imagine that you would enjoy yourself at all.
If he must go, then you should absolutely go with him. He has proven on two occasions (that you KNOW of) that he is untrustworthy when traveling on business. No way would I let him go alone.
Trip Triggering is a common issue for BS. I would definitely go.
Bigger Issue...
As Squeakr says, you are still making excuses for his cheating. Dealing with real life, sickness, job loss, children screwing up, whatever... can stress any marriage, 100's of proper options, cheating is not, never one.
As you state, your H is a confirmed serial cheater. Caught once and a year later repeated and caught again. You do know that there is more. It is a rare pearl to ever have a confession of the whole truth.
That aside. Go. Enjoy. Shop. Drink. See the sites. Stay and extra day or two. Enjoy!
Explain boundaries. Agree to them. FYI... It is your right file and serve D papers now or 5 years from now. He lost his vote on that when he made his "mistakes".
It does sound like you both moved past this. There still is damage he needs to fix. He does the heavy lifting in reconciliation. Not you. He has to meet your standards. He needs to earn his way back to you. Has he done this? Every day the rest of his life.
Maybe a miscommunication on my part in my letter. Both cheats happened within an 8 month period during which I did not know of either. If we had turned things around, and then he repeated again I would view that as different.
They were both ONS and fortunately on second time he couldn't go thru with sex as he realized that it didn't resolve things the first time but was still looking for attention and feedback from someone. I spoke to the OW and she confirmed (without me asking directly) that they had not had sex. I know it sounds unbelievable, I did also for a long time. But knowing him and what his situation was at the time...it is likely that it is accurate. When I discovered the first one oct 2012, he did not tell me there had been a previous one earlier that year. He recognized the importance of disclosing all over time as we began our process , and a year later did. Since Oct 2012 we are cheat free.
What I'm saying is that after all we've gone thru, I consider both infidelities during that 8 month time as one overall hit to our marriage. I believe we have uncovered much during this last 2 years and remain more committed than before. Don't recommend this route for anyone, but it has caused some very real openness and change.
That said, he knows, and I know that now that we all know where everything is at. If there is that kind of insult to our marriage and me again, I would not feel any obligation to work through anymore and would not.
Don't get sucked down by the negativity of some posters. They have been very badly hurt in similar situations and have become very hard on cheaters as a result.
You know your husband best. And you and he sound like you have an otherwise good relationship. Which is why I say go with him and help him as he's helped you. Plenty of sex would probably be a good thing as well.
Fingers crossed for you both and as much as it hurts R can work and the stat's say the chances are better when its the guy that cheats
Which to me shows that women are wired a little differently about the physical act and have the emotional act higher up the tree and seem more forgiving (though I don't know if that's the right word)
any way enjoy the trip and don't get too sun burnt
I still stand by my assessment that you are covering for him. Not trying to offend, but you sound like my STBXW. She sees it as really one action since she hadn't been caught yet. I don't agree especially since it was with different guys and over an extended period of time. Just because you didn't discover it, he still is a serial cheater, especially having done it with different people. MY STBXW tried to reason that her 2 year multiple sex incident with one of her OMs (as there were others) only counted as one offense, since it hadn't ended and started again. I disagree. When you slow it down, cut off contact for a period (no matter how short) and then start again it is another incident. She sees it as one LTR instead of multiple incidences, since no one knew and she wasn't discovered. Semantics I know, but more than once is serial no matter if it is discovered or not.
I don't see how you can view it as just one knock against your marriage, it was 2 different people and over an 8 month period. Would you view it the same if you had been married a shorter period of time? If yes then you need to rethink your situation, as it wasn't just a ONS, it was months (and possibly years) of lying and covering.
first time he was approached and it was an ego boost for him. He was definately in a space where he was needing something for himself. He thought having sex with another would fix his many issues he was dealing with at the time. 8 months later, same city, away from home, same headspace. no disclosure to me had happened about the first time. Second time he enjoyed intellectual company and purposefully orchestrated that. He manipulated things so he could receive positive feedback and validation of himself. They went back to his room, some brief intimacy but not sex that time. It worked for a short time. Lots of realizations and most important he has learned about himself and what he really wants and needs.
I made the decision to stay with him as he has been a loyal and extremely supportive, caring husband for 24 yrs! Never any guarantees in life, but we have the best chance possible now.
I made the decision to stay with him as he has been a loyal and extremely supportive, caring husband for 24 yrs! Never any guarantees in life, but we have the best chance possible now.
For your decision to go or not, I would not want to be in that location. How could you not think about what he did there those other times. BUT I would not want him to go either. That would be a real consequence of his past bad choices to cheat not once but twice at the same past business conferences. He should have to explain to his boss or supervisor that someone else will need to cover his part in the last meeting for this project due to his inappropriate actions at the past meetings.
He has been there for me before and even more so after. He has never once become impatient with my process, we have had counselling together and apart. It's not perfect for me yet and I suspect that will be the case for a while. It's a big hit.
He does the heavy lifting, and I suspect will continue to.
I have to make sure I do things for myself to regain my confidence and self esteem. Thank you for caring
ha ha, that is an interesting tactic. We hold each other hard! He made the ultimate choice which is all on him. But people make choices when they are in pain as well. When they repeat after going thru the process, then they don't deserve the same understanding.
Dear everyone I am replying to: I'm not sure Im correctly replying to each individual comment? Sorry if it's confusing, but as I don't use this much Im not sure if I know how to reply directly to each comment?
I think you should go. You will trigger and it will be hard but hopefully your husband can be as supportive and do the heavy lifting there as he has been at home. I think it will help you to heal to re-claim experiences, places, music, etc with him and then make that place/experience "yours" together, again.
My original question was about whether or not it may benefit me to go on this trip with my husband as he really wants us to regain a positive feeling again about the city we once enjoyed tremendously. I appreciate the feedback to that question as it has been most helpful and given me lots to think about.
I am trying not to dwell on the cheating anymore, and the why 's have been answered. Now I want to make new roads as well so does my husband. I feel we are lucky to both agree strongly on this point, and no one has worked harder than he has to make sure I know that.
For those who worry I have my head in the sand lol:
Not trying to defend, nor dismiss the severity of his mistake,choice ect. He did it all by himself. He 's responsible for that. It's not the way to resolve anything. We've been up and down that.
As ugly as people's choices or mistakes can be, we are human and it's very healing when someone understands us and loves us.mistakes and all. I'm not perfect either, and he has stood strong for me. Never cheated, but am not perfect. Hopefully we all know when to draw the line so we are not abused emotionally or otherwise.
I hope those who are also hurting as I am....can find some peace in various things day to day,and a person who loves them also.
I would be the last person to cast doubt, throw the stone, on your R.
I've been married to my fww for now 35 years. At year 30, I caught her cheating with old college BF. Brief EAPA about a month long. Things had been screwed up for years. Knew there was more. A little investigating, bluffs, archived emails... she had been serial cheating for 7 years with multiple OM. She lied, minimized all the way to the truth.
All I am saying is that Serial Cheaters rarely if ever admit the extent of what they have done. Hear a truth, once the deed is done, the next is almost automatic. It really is an addiction. They will only confess enough to satisfy your desire for the truth. When you back off, they go quiet.
I had to know all, did I really ever get it? Probably not.
Sorry you had to go through that after 30 years together. Even though things may get "screwed up" it s still a betrayal and that hurts. I guess you make a decision one way or the other based on what you know. Then rather than second guessing and waiting for next hit, you live each day with the best intentions because we never really know what's in store but can be satisfied that we did all we could to bring lots of spirit and good energy into our relationships. That is satisfying.
If we cast doom and gloom and pessimism, then things go wrong, how can that feel strengthening? Then we are dealing with more than one thing.
There is something not right about what your husband is telling you.
Your poor husband, driven to cheat because he was neglected. He picked up two random women at bars apparently easily. It takes skill, practice and focus to develop the skills to approach random women and then get them to trust a stranger enough to follow him back to a hotel room. He has an unusually good hit rate. He must be a charming playa, good looking and free with the cash, buying drinks, snacks, room service.
Does not sound like your husband, right? Of course not, he is a good actor and a manipulative, lying, deceptive man. He managed to convince you that he is not a serial cheater, he did not have sex with 2 OW, that this is his first go around, he is not in contact with OW and the most skillful lie of all he was driven to cheat and its your fault. Now the latter takes subtle manipulation skills. You called the OW for reassurance? she does not owe you the truth. She is a lier just like your husband. she won't tell you they are still communicating.
How did you find out about the second episode of cheating. He broke down and told you? My take - he has been at this for a long time and he has you snowed. If you did some digging, you would find plenty of evidence. I have a feeling that you know but you don't want to know. At some point, you will meet this man so prepare yourself. Get tested periodically for STD"s.
sounds like you know my husband well....and others like him possibly? Im not trying to be intentionally facetious or make light of infidelity. First of all, my question at this forum was about taking a trip for various reasons and curiousity of the potential benefit or not to hurtful memories. You've backed the truck way up when I've already driven miles forward. You have strong and would have sometimes also accurate depictions and conclusions of the characters of men or women who cheat. Whether they fit for each situation is entirely unknown with such little info. It is difficult to know a persons true character,motivations,remorse ect. from small exerpts in written form. I read some from this forum, and hope to gain some insights and sometimes answers from the vast knowledge and experiences. I have learned alot from many sources about myself and my marriage, and thankfully will continue to keep learning. You may call that "not womaning up" or "not holding him accountable." Again, an assumption in knowing a persons character and difficult to describe. The intricate details of day to week to month to year healing and insights that happen to the BS and WS in each situation are both similar and different. I believe we are all accountable and share responsibility in the better and worse in a relationship/marriage. You are correct that no one deserves to be cheated on. We all deserve to be treated with dignity. I was not and am not under any illusions about that.
No matter how I describe it, it will be seen differently by all. I think the better person to speak to feelings of whether there is remorse,serial cheating, years of lies and future motivations is the WS themself. But then...other than to the partner who knows them most intimately....it would probably be futile for the most part which is why there are more BS than WS opening up at this forum. Wishing you all the best
Wow. Certainly something to consider. That assumes he's completely evil. Might be a big leap to get there. Certainly worth considering.
That means stealth mode - get the cell phone, back it up and recover deleted texts, phone bill details going back years. Credit card receipts, VAR the car and the usual surveillance stuff. Weightlifters sig has the how to's.
This will get the W a bit paranoid too. So she'll need to be calm and collected and not assume something's wrong until the facts are in.
She could NOT go on the trip and hire a PI there to keep tabs on him. Maybe even a female PI.
What does the gender of the PI have to do with a BS verifying? Moreover, how is the need for verification of a lier signs of paranoia in a BS.
She needs to woman-up, get angry, and find her self-respect. I would tell a man in this situation the same. She needs to hold her serial cheating husband totally accountable. All BS should do that. Has anyone ever cheated on you? We all are vulnerable you know. The path of true R knows no gender.
Completely evil, of course not, unless you consider cheating on a spouse 2 times evil. A BS can speak to that better than I. However, I don't feel cheaters are beyond redemption. They can reform and never cheat again.
I gave my take on the situation. It is not a stretch to believe that he is lying about prior cheating, having sex with these 2 OW and perhaps others. He is not remorseful, he feels justified to humiliate and hurt his wife when he is unhappy in the marriage. He is married to a woman who accepts whatever he says with no verification.
Incredibly, she is the one who is laboring to fix herself and to make him happy because the poor thing is in so much pain that he hurt and humiliated her. He even exposed her to some really nasty STD's. A truly remorseful cheater thinks only of things they need to do so that their BS will not dump them. There is no room for thinking up reasons why a person in pain needs to take care of their BS.
Sorry that's the way I see this very disfunction relationship.
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
Talk About Marriage
4.9M posts
105.4K members
Since 2007
A forum community dedicated to married life between you and your spouse. Come join the discussion about love, romance, health, behavior, conflict resolution, care, and more!