[Marc878]

WAAAYYY late to the party - kinda wished I'd posted months ago (when I first read through your story), but I doubt it would have changed anything.

I'll preface what I'm going to say with this: you are/were more than justified in all of the actions that you took, and in no way am I judging or suggesting that you were "wrong". As in any experience, you had choices to make, and there were alternate paths.

That being said, and obviously I only have the information and experiences you have conveyed to us on here (which is only part of the story) - this could easily have been a case of a badly understood day turning into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The funeral and surrounding public occasions, while CERTAINLY not pleasant or acceptable from your perspective, from this vantage point meant nothing. You've evidenced significant jealousy (again, not a judgment, I'm a VERY jealous person) - and that could have been why you equated her actions those days to something entirely not there (rekindling things with EX). Then you basically stormed off after limited attempts at conveying your problem with the situation - all but forcing them back together. She was particularly vulnerable and needing support in that moment - again, not an excuse for how she treated you that day, but the follow on issues were you "reading" into the situation, not based on clearly communication (from either of you). Then you just disappeared.

From her perspective, she needed some support and to work through things where she wasn't giving you all of her attention, and you immediately bailed. Then when you ghosted her, the guy that was there got her attention and she decided to see if it could be rekindled - again, maybe I've got timelines mixed up but that's one potential interpretation. That you use this experience, and your first wife, to paint all potential future relationships in the same light also makes me question if the perception you have is colored by reality or by biases in your perspective.

Consider, like many of these "dates/ONS" situations, what you "lost" by having that relationship with her? What was the negative? A few fights here and there, one REALLY uncomfortable day, and in the end feeling rejected (which you kind of forced upon yourself)? Obviously those things suck in the micro view, but there was lots of positives, too. It sounds like you spent a significant amount of time stewing about what could have been and what happened - and so has she. Maybe if that energy got spent on communicating before, and being open and up front about what the issues were and what those issues looked like or meant to each person, relying on what those people say and do instead of trying to "interpret" what they mean, it could have had a different outcome.

Maybe you just like avoiding drama and that's all you see coming out of it, but what, really, does it hurt to hear someone out? So what if she tries to be manipulative? Then she's just exactly where you think she is? Maybe she says or does something that suggests your interpretations were wrong? Maybe she just apologizes. Or, obviously, maybe it's just the ****show you think it was going to be... but so? In the end, you cared, and your biggest pain seems to come from believing she didn't. I think thus far it's clear she did, at least to some degree.

I like that you recognize you don't need a relationship to be happy and healthy. You don't also need to be single and free to be happy and healthy. Everyone has their baggage (including you), so being around others comes with an expectation that at some point, you'll be exposed to that baggage. Don't pre-emptively judge everyone else's.

Again, I hope you don't find this to be insulting or demeaning. Just food for thought. There were 2 people in this relationship, both fully human and with faults. You handled it fine, but I'm questioning if you got the outcome you truly wanted, and if handling it a different way may have gotten you to a different outcome.

I wish health and happiness on you!

It all comes down to actions versus words. Life rarely ends like a Disney movie.

 

[ArthurGPym]

Having followed your thread from the beginning I was curious as to what she wrote in that letter she sent after everything went down. Would have liked to see how she explained her behavior towards you.

Since her ex took off to AZ have you spoken with her son?

I have not spoken to him. The door is open if he ever wants to call me, but it is probably better for everyone if he doesn't. I do miss both the boys, which is why I will never get involved with a woman with minor kids again.

 

[Tatsuhiko]

Ex takes off to AZ, effectively abandoning his own kids. Now THAT'S what we call a bad boy. Had she not screwed things up, you'd be a better father than this jerk ever was. Your motorcycle and leather jacket don't count for much.

 

[Taxman]

Arthur, I believe that you dodged a bullet. Anyone who cannot see a clear path to a better life, and willing to blow up other people's lives for essentially ennui. (Ex was not a great husband, and took to his heels when she got too close again) So....now she is looking for her next relationship. Or, she is planning a campaign to suck you back in. She is neither wife material nor girlfriend material. One bets she cannot explain why she went running back to her ex. When she was dressed down by you for blowing this up, how was her reaction? Did she justify herself? Did she just want to write it off as a "mistake"? Did she just weep and take it?

 

[fluffycoco]

I had always thought that Arthur should give her a second chance, but now I would think he made very smart decision to depart from her. she might liked him sometimes in someway but she was not in love whatsoever

 

[seadoug105]

I had always thought that Arthur should give her a second chance, but now I would think he made very smart decision to depart from her. she might liked him sometimes in someway but she was not in love whatsoever

That’s because she will only be in lone with 2 things in her life…

her self
and
the thought of being in love

 

[sideways]

She doesn't really know what love is. She thinks she does but she doesn't. To her love is a feeling/emotion. Unfortunately a feeling/emotion can change in a second.

Feelings are great but they come and go. That's why she was able to just cast Arthur aside because she was driven by a feeling she had in the moment and look what it got her. She lost a good man, her ex left her again, and her kids have lost a ton of respect for her.

 

[Tdbo]

Yeah last week, out of the blue Sarah got a text through to me on her son's phone number saying she would always love me. Right.

She's taken up fishing already.

 

[ArthurGPym]

Arthur, I believe that you dodged a bullet. Anyone who cannot see a clear path to a better life, and willing to blow up other people's lives for essentially ennui. (Ex was not a great husband, and took to his heels when she got too close again) So....now she is looking for her next relationship. Or, she is planning a campaign to suck you back in. She is neither wife material nor girlfriend material. One bets she cannot explain why she went running back to her ex. When she was dressed down by you for blowing this up, how was her reaction? Did she justify herself? Did she just want to write it off as a "mistake"? Did she just weep and take it?

I don't want to try to crawl inside her head to figure out why she did what she did. She did not justify herself, just kept repeating "I'm sorry" over and over. She didn't get a chance to answer me much because I was laying into her hard.

I had always thought that Arthur should give her a second chance, but now I would think he made very smart decision to depart from her. she might liked him sometimes in someway but she was not in love whatsoever

Or she was in love with me but never grew to really love me in an adult way.

That’s because she will only be in lone with 2 things in her life…

her self
and
the thought of being in love

There is probably some merit to this idea. She may have been in love with the idea of being ion love. I was her first serious guy after she broke up with her husband. I was the rebound.

She doesn't really know what love is. She thinks she does but she doesn't. To her love is a feeling/emotion. Unfortunately a feeling/emotion can change in a second.

Feelings are great but they come and go. That's why she was able to just cast Arthur aside because she was driven by a feeling she had in the moment and look what it got her. She lost a good man, her ex left her again, and her kids have lost a ton of respect for her.

I have read some about 'love addicts": people who move from relationship to relationship and are never able to mature into a grown-up, lasting kind of loving. They start off hot and heavy but once the newness of a relationship wears off they lose interest and move on to someone else, and the pattern repeats ad inifinitum. I think Marylin Monroe and Elizabeth Taylor were like this. I thought maybe Sarah was one of these and I'm not certain, since she dumped me for her ex. If it had been someone new then maybe.

She's taken up fishing already.

Do I get to pick what kind of fish I am? I think I would like to be a clownfish, like Nemo.

 

[ArthurGPym]

Not trying to belabor this thread, but I wanted to share something funny with you all. I lost a potential girlfriend last night. She said I was "vetting" her too much: i.e. asking too many questions about her past, probing into her private life too much. She didn't like the questions I was asking her about her prior relationship where she suddenly ended a ten year long term partnership for nebulous reasons. She stormed off and I sat there and realized I just dodged a narcissist. If not for what I have learned from TAM I might have set myself up for another emotional ass kicking down the road. Thank you all for the wisdom you have imparted to me. You really cannot trust anyone anymore.

 

[Rob_1]

While your concerns are legit, I would like to remind you that you just can't start an interrogation on a person just like that. Anyone, narcissistic or not would just get up and leave. Don't be that jaded guy.

During courtship, finding about the potential partner past relationships, and overall outlook and morals is a more subtle organic business, it should be handle with delicacy, like you are sharing stories about past behaviors (sleek way to do it is using somebody else's behaviour) to start gauging someone's one by their responses. What you did there was an assault right in her face. No wonder why she got up an left. Think about it.

 

[ArthurGPym]

Little harsh there Rob...

I wasn't interrogating her, not anywhere near that. It was the third time we had gone out, we were talking over dessert, and her story of how she and her ex broke up changed considerably from the prior time she had told me about it. I caught some inconsistencies in her story and simply asked her why her story changed. She got offended that I noticed and when I told her it was a legit question she got angry. That led to her getting all hot and the date ending fairly abruptly. She left me behind in the restaurant and when I caught up to her she refused to let me take her home. I guess she called an Uber home because I went ahead and left. At first I thought she had overreacted, but then later on I thought it might have all been an act. She knew she got caught in a lie and when she couldn't think of a way out of the lie she feigned anger as a diversionary tactic. When I still wasn't buying what she was selling she got up and left in a huff. I think it was kind of humorous looking back on it. Not a big issue for me anyway as I wasn't really into her and probably would not have asked her out again anyways.

 

[SRCSRC]

Wow, she has much to hide and didn't want to share it with you. Look for a widow. I believe you are in your 50's. They should start to pop up soon. I'm being sort of sarcastic.

 

[Rob_1]

She said I was "vetting" her too much: i.e. asking too many questions about her past, probing into her private life too much. She didn't like the questions I was asking her about her prior relationship where she suddenly ended a ten year long term partnership for nebulous reasons.

Arthur: as I read what you explained, it came across as you probing into her life on one sitting. Your new explanation makes more sense of the actual events leading to her departure. Thanks for clarifying. It shows that something must not be too kosher with her. Having said that, what I said about how to go about it stands, because, when it happens the way I interpreted it at first, is definitively a turn off and insulting to people. One must tread carefully when trying to establish who the other person really is.

 

[TAMAT]

Arthur,

That's another one of the disadvantages of cheating, you have to start off your next relationship concealing what you did, or lying by omission or telling a lie.

"we just grew apart" or even worse reversing the script and saying the former partner cheated.

 

[oldshirt]

Little harsh there Rob...

I wasn't interrogating her, not anywhere near that. It was the third time we had gone out, we were talking over dessert, and her story of how she and her ex broke up changed considerably from the prior time she had told me about it. I caught some inconsistencies in her story and simply asked her why her story changed. She got offended that I noticed and when I told her it was a legit question she got angry. That led to her getting all hot and the date ending fairly abruptly. She left me behind in the restaurant and when I caught up to her she refused to let me take her home. I guess she called an Uber home because I went ahead and left. At first I thought she had overreacted, but then later on I thought it might have all been an act. She knew she got caught in a lie and when she couldn't think of a way out of the lie she feigned anger as a diversionary tactic. When I still wasn't buying what she was selling she got up and left in a huff. I think it was kind of humorous looking back on it. Not a big issue for me anyway as I wasn't really into her and probably would not have asked her out again anyways.

That is probably going to happen quite a few times as you go about the dating market. You did the right thing in letting her go. You did dodge a bullet but the best part is she took herself out of the equation and you didn't have to do any of the dirty work.

What probably honked her off the most is she couldn't keep her story straight and didn't like that you were holding her accountable for her stories and her "vetting" comment was because she thinks her platinum vagina should exempt her from any vetting at all and it upset her that someone may not be bending over backwards for her.

You're going to run into that quite a bit going forward. Lots of women will have that mentality. Don't fall for it and don't chase and don't settle.

Now that being said, when I initially read your post, I was thinking the same thing as Rob. There is a line between interrogation and prying into someone's personal life and learning about them as a person. The whole reason for dating is to get to know someone and find out what kind of person they are and how they manage their life and their relationships and such in an effort to see if their beliefs and values and temperments etc are compatible and in line with each other.

I don't think asking someone how many people they've been to bed with is an appropriate question although many here do. I don't think you will ever get an honest answer anyway. ( I tend to believe in The Law of 3s, where men multiply their number by 3 and women divide their number by at least 3)

But I think clarifying a story that has fundamentally changed is not only valid but necessary. It's showing deception and manipulation. The fact that she was angered and upset by being called out on that was probably an even bigger glimpse into her mentality and character.

And for a woman to be disgusted by the thought of being "vetted" is a real big insight into her character and her level of entitlement. Yes, ladies, you too are being vetted and evaluated on your merits as well.

An honorable, quality woman will not only understand that but will embrace that and see a man who has his own values and criteria as a positive attribute. A man that will accept anyone that gives him the time of day is a turn off to a quality woman.

 

[ArthurGPym]

Arthur: as I read what you explained, it came across as you probing into her life on one sitting. Your new explanation makes more sense of the actual events leading to her departure. Thanks for clarifying. It shows that something must not be too kosher with her. Having said that, what I said about how to go about it stands, because, when it happens the way I interpreted it at first, is definitively a turn off and insulting to people. One must tread carefully when trying to establish who the other person really is.

Yeah, interesting thing is I never really ever probed much into her prior relationship. In fact I don't recall really asking her much about it at all. She volunteered a story about the breakup on our last date, after the wine had flowed for a while and loosened her tongue. I wasn't drinking because I had to drive and I just sat there listening and absorbing. Too bad a lot of it was bogus. I have a pretty sharp memory and I catch inconsistencies.

 

[oldshirt]

Yeah, interesting thing is I never really ever probed much into her prior relationship. In fact I don't recall really asking her much about it at all. She volunteered a story about the breakup on our last date, after the wine had flowed for a while and loosened her tongue. I wasn't drinking because I had to drive and I just sat there listening and absorbing. Too bad a lot of it was bogus. I have a pretty sharp memory and I catch inconsistencies.

So this of course begs the question of what were her two stories? What did she spill the beans on that got her so upset that you found out about?

 

[Divinely Favored]

That is probably going to happen quite a few times as you go about the dating market. You did the right thing in letting her go. You did dodge a bullet but the best part is she took herself out of the equation and you didn't have to do any of the dirty work.

What probably honked her off the most is she couldn't keep her story straight and didn't like that you were holding her accountable for her stories and her "vetting" comment was because she thinks her platinum vagina should exempt her from any vetting at all and it upset her that someone may not be bending over backwards for her.

You're going to run into that quite a bit going forward. Lots of women will have that mentality. Don't fall for it and don't chase and don't settle.

Now that being said, when I initially read your post, I was thinking the same thing as Rob. There is a line between interrogation and prying into someone's personal life and learning about them as a person. The whole reason for dating is to get to know someone and find out what kind of person they are and how they manage their life and their relationships and such in an effort to see if their beliefs and values and temperments etc are compatible and in line with each other.

I don't think asking someone how many people they've been to bed with is an appropriate question although many here do. I don't think you will ever get an honest answer anyway. ( I tend to believe in The Law of 3s, where men multiply their number by 3 and women divide their number by at least 3)

But I think clarifying a story that has fundamentally changed is not only valid but necessary. It's showing deception and manipulation. The fact that she was angered and upset by being called out on that was probably an even bigger glimpse into her mentality and character.

And for a woman to be disgusted by the thought of being "vetted" is a real big insight into her character and her level of entitlement. Yes, ladies, you too are being vetted and evaluated on your merits as well.

An honorable, quality woman will not only understand that but will embrace that and see a man who has his own values and criteria as a positive attribute. A man that will accept anyone that gives him the time of day is a turn off to a quality woman.

If they think # asked is inappropriate then there should not be a problem if a year or two down the road the guy finds out and leaves because it is higher that he would tolerate in a spouse.

I remained chaste until 22 though I had opportunity. I was a romantic looking for the innocent young lady that felt the same. Finally gave up and then met my wife at 24. Luckily she had married at 17 and was divorcing her WS. So I hoped she had not been around, being 27.

 

[marko polo]

I have not spoken to him. The door is open if he ever wants to call me, but it is probably better for everyone if he doesn't. I do miss both the boys, which is why I will never get involved with a woman with minor kids again.

Consider blocking his number. Not out of any cruelty or malice toward him but his mother will not likely stop using his number as a means to communicate with you. If she feels she can pull on your heart strings through the boy, she will.

Your heart is in the right place and your ex is hoping to bleed it dry in her hour of need.