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Yeah my first thought was chemistry was the boss too. I did read the article she searched for, was actually a really good read. It did get into the fog that is explained here. It did a good job explaining the nature of things with chemistry vs love. And I felt like the article was trying to talk the reader out following chemistry. Asking the reader, could you see yourself with this person in the long run AKA love.

Another weird thing I just remembered. A couple weeks before all of this. My wife did ask me a strange question after she found out someone she knows is a swinger. And was wondering what my thoughts were on an open marriage. I gave a huge list why I don't like it and she agreed with me. Also a couple days ago, she asked me. How do you think the covid thing has impacted our relationship. Then she quickly corrected herself and said oh nevermind, nothing has changed and she changed the subject.

I do think, confronting her right now is not the best idea. I am going to sit and watch a bit. And read that book.

I could be on very thin ice, if she truly in fact stopped. If it didn't stop and I still keeping finding things. I think your advice is the way to go.

Also during my little dday, I did ask her straight up if she still loved me. She said she did, and wanted to know what she could do to help me believe her.
Gee I know I am stupid sometimes... But if she DID NOTHING, then how could she help you believe that she still loved you????

I mean, she is a great wife, sure you guys did not have sex that often as I remember, but she was a great wife.

So while she DID NOTHING WRONG she is still asking what she can do to help you feel loved.

Why are you tying yourself in a pretzel to MAKE YOURSELF believe she did not have an affair?

Brother, when/if you find out the truth, please don't hurt yourself, just file for divorce.

I already would have if I was you...
 

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OMG Hacker, you never said before she asked you about open relationships. That question here in TAM qualifies as the mother of red flags. Now OP, based on that detail, your radar needs to put on the highest level.
 

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Discussion Starter #404
Well the question did come up some time before I started noticing all this stuff. So I really didn't think much of it, other than an interesting topic to talk about, since someone she knows does it.

But yes my radar is still up. I'm just laying low for a bit. To see if this goes anywhere.

I have made up my mind on all scenarios if they come up.
 

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Another weird thing I just remembered. A couple weeks before all of this. My wife did ask me a strange question after she found out someone she knows is a swinger. And was wondering what my thoughts were on an open marriage.
Are you ****ing kidding me? You just remembered this?
 

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Discussion Starter #406
Yeah I was thinking back about some of our convos. This was some time before all the weird stuff started so I didn't think much about it. We have actually talked about it before when I found out someone I knew had one. So I just didn't think much about it.
 

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OP- Every time we think we have this thing figured out and that you're basically in the clear, you drop another nugget that completely flips the equation.

Asking about open relationships and swinging and so forth? Dude...good luck. Sharing that office...good luck.

I had hoped you had genuinely caught something before it started. Now, I'm not so sure. You might have just scratched the surface.
 

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I did think about bringing it up. But I felt like maybe I am just being hyper attentive on everything and picking up every little thing as a sign. So I let it be.

Speaking of little things, I do have another. The other day my wife was on a call with a friend. I overheard a bit of the call. Was a friend with some BF issues. She did talk me up a bit which I thought was neat. But she did say something weird, but logical at the same time. Pretty much she said she is stuck with me, but the good news is that I am awesome so it is ok. I am thinking stuck probably has to do with kids and money. But weird that she would use that word. That is something I would never say. I would say something like, I love my wife and family yada yada yada.
I think she used the world exactly described how she feels being with you. Stuck Is not a flattering way to describe one’s relationship.
 

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I’m done man. You do what you feels best for you. Keep going around like a scared puppy and thinking that you’re the one on thin ice. When all along it is your wife that should be on thin ice with everything that has gone on. I absolutely love how you keep on adding things to the story.

With all the conversations that you keep bringing into this, it sounds like you’re a day late and a wife short. She’s already been screwing somebody or her boss or both. She was asking you about a open relationship to relieve her guilt for sleeping with somebody else trying to get you to go along with it. It isn’t the first time it’s been done that way. She also could’ve been trying to get you to go along with a open relationship so she could F her boss without any guilt and your permission. The conversations and everything else are way too close together to be coincidence.

Best of luck I’m done.
 

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Discussion Starter #410
Thanks for the good advice and the input. Sorry for bringing crap up like this. After being together for 20 years without any issues, I have had a lot of anxiety. This is all new to me. I am trying to figure it out.

I am just scared of the reality of everything. I am starting to come to terms with it and figuring out what the end game is.
 

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OP don't despair. You don't have a silver bullet. Of course your last statement elevated the red flag meter to 9, but still everything is circumstantial. It is good you think ahead of the different outcomes. For the moment stay on stealth mode. If everything happened or is going on, you will find out; because this time you have your radar up and you have the backup of TAM. Focus on yourself and read the books No More Mr Nice Guy and Marrier Man Sex Life Primer.
 

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Only you know the context of why/how she asked about the open relationship thing. So many possibilities.

1) She wants to make sure YOU aren't into that. A test.
2) She had someone in mind for herself, in case you allowed it.
3) She was just curious about your thoughts, because she knows someone else doing it.
4) She is hoping you'd say yes, because she's already got a side piece.

None of us ****ing know.

Now, if my wife asked me that question, even in "peacetime", I would suspect it was either #1 or #2.
 

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Well the question did come up some time before I started noticing all this stuff. So I really didn't think much of it, other than an interesting topic to talk about, since someone she knows does it.

But yes my radar is still up. I'm just laying low for a bit. To see if this goes anywhere.

I have made up my mind on all scenarios if they come up.
Yeah, it makes you look like a troll. Which I am sure that you are not...

But yeah with that info, she is and has been cheating physically. No doubt in the world.

So either you are the worst detective ever in the history of humanity, or she is super good a hiding and gas lighting you.

I am going with the latter. I am guess it all happens at work or she has a burner phone, or something else.

Dude, just file already...
 

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I divorced in 2011 after I discovered my wife of 30 years was having an affair. After the dust settled I realized that it had been going on about a year, mostly EA but then became physical. I also discovered it wasnt her first. I got to thinking back and remembered her discussing a person we knew who had an affair with another in our social group. She questioned me as to the guilt of the affair partner guy, and was ADAMENT that it was not all his fault, as the other party had been aggressively seeking his attention. I would not have it, saying at the time "He is in control of his actions, blame lays with him 100%" I know now that she was running a flag up the pole to see if anyone saluted, she was checking to see how I would respond to finding out about her. Red flag! Open relationship?!? Red flag!
 

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Yeah, it makes you look like a troll. Which I am sure that you are not...

But yeah with that info, she is and has been cheating physically. No doubt in the world.

So either you are the worst detective ever in the history of humanity, or she is super good a hiding and gas lighting you.

I am going with the latter. I am guess it all happens at work or she has a burner phone, or something else.

Dude, just file already...
I'm not as sure as you are, but I'll go along. Search for the burner phone. Install monitoring software on her phone. Don't get caught doing any of this.
 

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Yeah, I'm not as sure either. But it sure does seem like Hacker has new info at the end of every post. Let's add these up.
  • She talks about her boss a lot - making Hacker uncomfortable to the point he has to say something
  • She says not to worry, because he is married with kids (not the best answer)
  • She looks him up on Facebook and Google several times, recently.
  • There are, what seem to be, deleted texts. Though Hacker has found no damning banter.
  • She knows he is snooping, and has tested him about it. But, she still has no passwords on her phone, and Hacker seems to have full reign on her computer, apps, etc.
  • There is a Victoria Secret gift card in her drawer, not well hidden, that Hacker didn't give her.
  • She has, at some time in the past, asked what Hacker's thoughts were on the open marriage concept.
  • Currently, they are doing quite well, getting along, sex is good, and behavior is on point.
My take - this is a wife who is seriously considering her options with other men. She's likely not cheated yet, but is starting to want to (I'll call it, "Cheat-curious"), and has a potential target in her boss. While she might be temporarily happy/satisfied right this minute, she's not fulfilled overall. She's making sure her husband is not on her trail, because she's looking for options and doesn't want him to know until she's decided to move on. Meanwhile, she's not miserable with Hacker, and is comfortable with him and happy to take his affection. But there is a wild side brewing, something she's been dying to explore but hasn't quite yet. She's looking for an opening. Hasn't quite pulled the trigger. She's biding her time. Floating the open relationship idea didn't work - that would have been the best scenario for her - keeping the comfort of Hacker while allowing the experimental side to blossom.
 

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One thing I'm not sure has been mentioned yet, but OP- you do not want to get yourself into a position where you have to play Warden or Parole Officer to your wife for the remainder of your marriage. Constantly checking phones, emails, call logs, whereabouts, etc. is no way to live. If I felt that I needed to do that in my situation, there's no way I would have stayed.

I realize that you are still very much in discovery mode right now, but this pattern you are currently in can easily become the norm if you allow it to be.

If your wife is truly open to the attention and advances of another man, and/or if she's 'putting out feelers' to gauge your reaction to her own desires, then my friend- you are fighting a losing battle.

Search for a burner phone. Get a VAR in her car. Install a keylogger if at all possible. And stay quiet about all of it.
 

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Yeah, I'm not as sure either. But it sure does seem like Hacker has new info at the end of every post. Let's add these up.
  • She talks about her boss a lot - making Hacker uncomfortable to the point he has to say something
  • She says not to worry, because he is married with kids (not the best answer)
  • She looks him up on Facebook and Google several times, recently.
  • There are, what seem to be, deleted texts. Though Hacker has found no damning banter.
  • She knows he is snooping, and has tested him about it. But, she still has no passwords on her phone, and Hacker seems to have full reign on her computer, apps, etc.
  • There is a Victoria Secret gift card in her drawer, not well hidden, that Hacker didn't give her.
  • She has, at some time in the past, asked what Hacker's thoughts were on the open marriage concept.
  • Currently, they are doing quite well, getting along, sex is good, and behavior is on point.
My take - this is a wife who is seriously considering her options with other men. She's likely not cheated yet, but is starting to want to (I'll call it, "Cheat-curious"), and has a potential target in her boss. While she might be temporarily happy/satisfied right this minute, she's not fulfilled overall. She's making sure her husband is not on her trail, because she's looking for options and doesn't want him to know until she's decided to move on. Meanwhile, she's not miserable with Hacker, and is comfortable with him and happy to take his affection. But there is a wild side brewing, something she's been dying to explore but hasn't quite yet. She's looking for an opening. Hasn't quite pulled the trigger. She's biding her time. Floating the open relationship idea didn't work - that would have been the best scenario for her - keeping the comfort of Hacker while allowing the experimental side to blossom.
You forgot she was perusing for gifts (things) that OM was into.
 

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You forgot she was perusing for gifts (things) that OM was into.
Thanks. That one is odd. And how does Hacker know the OM, in particular, is into these things? Also, this could be nefarious or it could be that people get gifts for their boss at the company. It is another item to note, though, yes.
 

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Yeah, I'm not as sure either. But it sure does seem like Hacker has new info at the end of every post. Let's add these up.
  • She talks about her boss a lot - making Hacker uncomfortable to the point he has to say something
  • She says not to worry, because he is married with kids (not the best answer)
  • She looks him up on Facebook and Google several times, recently.
  • There are, what seem to be, deleted texts. Though Hacker has found no damning banter.
  • She knows he is snooping, and has tested him about it. But, she still has no passwords on her phone, and Hacker seems to have full reign on her computer, apps, etc.
  • There is a Victoria Secret gift card in her drawer, not well hidden, that Hacker didn't give her.
  • She has, at some time in the past, asked what Hacker's thoughts were on the open marriage concept.
  • Currently, they are doing quite well, getting along, sex is good, and behavior is on point.
My take - this is a wife who is seriously considering her options with other men. She's likely not cheated yet, but is starting to want to (I'll call it, "Cheat-curious"), and has a potential target in her boss. While she might be temporarily happy/satisfied right this minute, she's not fulfilled overall. She's making sure her husband is not on her trail, because she's looking for options and doesn't want him to know until she's decided to move on. Meanwhile, she's not miserable with Hacker, and is comfortable with him and happy to take his affection. But there is a wild side brewing, something she's been dying to explore but hasn't quite yet. She's looking for an opening. Hasn't quite pulled the trigger. She's biding her time. Floating the open relationship idea didn't work - that would have been the best scenario for her - keeping the comfort of Hacker while allowing the experimental side to blossom.
I get you and this is a good synopsis, but here is the deal...

Almost every time, that a woman brings up Open Marriage, it is because she is already physically cheating.

Now I did say EVERY TIME, I am saying a huge percentage of the time.

OP has a ton of red flags. A ton.

So yes, I am saying that she is cheating or at least she was cheating...
 
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