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My fiancee and I are getting married soon, and as he is older (12 years) and is coming into the marriage with a significant amount of assets and a son we both decided a prenup would be necessary. Neither of us has been previously married. After discussion he explained the prenup would be in place to protect his premarital assets and some finances he has set aside for his son and family.

I initially agreed to this, however upon reading the finished prenup he and his lawyer wrote together without me there, it states that he wants all of our assets to be completely separate before and during the marriage. He also wants me to waive all of my rights to alimony. The prenup states that all assets acquired by either individual in the marriage will remain separate unless specified otherwise. Also, if we were the have a joint bank account the "commingled" money will still remain the individual's assets in case of divorce. Ex: husband puts $5,000 in bank account and wife puts $2,000. When divorced the husband would get that $5,000 back and vice versa. Even land and homes acquired by each person would remain separate.

When I asked to discuss and clarify this, as well as ask why the terms changed from what I originally understood, he would get angry and refuse to discuss anything clearly and would only tell me to take it to my lawyer. After I pushed the subject further he told me no matter what he would not change the prenup because he believes a marriage is to share love and emotions only, not money and then claimed I was making it clear I was after his money, which is not the case. He doesn't seem to understand that I feel as if he doesn't trust me or want me a part of his life and that the prenup makes me sound like a gold digger when I have previously never asked for anything from him money wise.

I am also concerned because he is not an American citizen (he is legal for the time being with a temporary visa), and although we have been dating for a year and a half and have a very loving relationship the way the prenup is written and his unwillingness to discuss this, or even understand my concerns, is making me question the legitimacy of it. And now he has been freezing me out for 2 days because we got in an argument over the prenup.

My question is, am I being overdramatic? Are my concerns unwarranted?
 

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Why bother getting married?

Given the restrictiveness of the prenuptual agreement it seems completely pointless.

At best it's going to be a sham. At worst, he's making it clear he doesn't trust you in the least, why commit to this guy for a lifetime if he's playing his cards so tight to the vest?

It's almost like he's expecting things to fail.

For what it's worth, by him protecting himself from ever paying you support, he's being a total douche. "Marry me, but don't expect any of the benefits people typically get from marriage, such as financial security".

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if there's a clause in there that says you have to return the rings in the event of divorce.
 

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I wouldn't marry a guy like this. He's going to nickel and dime everything in your marriage.

I can understand protecting existing assets, but to take the position that going forward what's his is his and you should waive alimony tells me he's looking for easy sex and a business arrangement.

What if you have children together and you need to take care of a baby? What if you give up pursuing advancement of your career to support his?

There are lots of things that can come up and you're not going to have a partner.

And you can't even talk about it without him angering.

He's not marriage material.

I'd tell this guy to go to hades, and can't believe a lawyer would advise you to sign something like this.

Frankly even if he backs down I would get rid of him anyway.....his attitude is telling about how he sees a marriage.

I'm not even sure a prenup like that would hold up.
 

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I agree with the previous posters.

To state that joint marital assets acquired after the wedding should still be split is pretty ridiculous.
 

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Lots of prenups don't hold up but it makes things more expensive and costly because it's gotta be litigated.

The guy isn't an American citizen. My guess is he's using her for a green card.
Could very well be.

Marrying someone like this is beyond foolish.....particularly for someone younger with a lot of options.
 

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As others have said, this isn't reasonable or fair. Don't marry him. If you want to anyway, you MUST have your own lawyer evaluate the prenup and negotiate for you. If you do not have your own lawyer, the prenup may be invalid, anyway, as most jurisdictions require both parties to have representation for the agreement to be fair and valid.
 

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When I asked to discuss and clarify this, as well as ask why the terms changed from what I originally understood, he would get angry and refuse to discuss anything clearly and would only tell me to take it to my lawyer. After I pushed the subject further he told me no matter what he would not change the prenup because he believes a marriage is to share love and emotions only, not money and then claimed I was making it clear I was after his money, which is not the case. He doesn't seem to understand that I feel as if he doesn't trust me or want me a part of his life and that the prenup makes me sound like a gold digger when I have previously never asked for anything from him money wise.
I agree with @browser that there's no reason to get married if all you and/or your fiance are after is 'love and emotion'. You can share love and emotion without having to enter into a legal contract.

I am also concerned because he is not an American citizen (he is legal for the time being with a temporary visa), and although we have been dating for a year and a half and have a very loving relationship the way the prenup is written and his unwillingness to discuss this, or even understand my concerns, is making me question the legitimacy of it. And now he has been freezing me out for 2 days because we got in an argument over the prenup.
Red flag alert!!!! You are NOT being overly dramatic. As someone looking from the outside in, you have reason to be concerned. It looks like the only one with anything to gain from this marriage is your fiance.

Personally, I would NOT enter into a marriage with this man. You can move in together and get the same benefits as if you were to marry under the conditions of the prenup.





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OMG, NO you are NOT over-reacting. What is the point of getting married? You don't need a piece of paper to "share love and emotions" WTH?

I think it makes sense for adults with children from previous relationships to have a pre-nup to ensure something is set aside for the children, or adults who marry later in life and bring considerable assets with them, to make sure that in the event of divorce they don't lose everything they've built up over the years.

But once you marry - you are supposed to be #1 to each other, and a unit. At least that's how I think most people look at it. I would think any income earned, any homes bought, post marriage is joint property. Otherwise, again, what is the point in being married?

He is not going into this with an attitude of cherishing you. And he's being very controlling using anger and freezing you out to avoid a conversation and try to manipulate you into signing a document that is not in your best interest at all. If you can't talk with him about this now, how will communication be once you are married?

You might check this forum topic out - your fiance is a renter at best. I don't think you should marry this man. Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders - Marriage Builders® Forums (There's a book on the topic too. Buyers, Renter, and Freeloaders - by Willard F. Harley, Jr. Ph.D.)
 

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OP,
So many red flags, and they block in my mind any ability to see love from his perspective - rather he's treating this proposed marriage as a financial arrangement to be negotiated - likely out of his own insecurities and fear that you'll leave. Seems self fulfilling, at this point, as I can see this driving you away (no you're NOT overreacting, I'm glad you have a feeling here... trust your gut!)... he doesn't sound worth the energy or time. It's difficult to envision love between the two of you because of this (he seems so cold; and divisive about finances)... but I'm sure you feel it, and have developed a compassion for him over the last 18 months. Make sure you take care of yourself... as someone said above, a part of marriage is financial security. Without that, what's the point? Might as well just live together, keep separate finances, and not bother with the rings.

I say this as someone who is divorced, has two children and has been dating a girl for a year and a half that I am completely in love with. When we talk finances, it's always as working as a team... to build a future. If I do get married, I would want all of our finances acquired in the marriage to belong to us both... and my only thoughts about a prenup would be to protect my retirement account that I've accumulated as a safety net (at 34, it's about $300K) for my children (sort of like a life insurance thing) should something happen to me. I wouldn't have anything in there about how to split up stuff we made while married. The whole point to being married is to work together, compromise and provide for one another... financially, and emotionally. Maybe I'm old school. This guy certainly sounds like a *******

Edit: just realized this post was in the ladies lounge... saw in on the "Recent Discussions" list to the right. Still think it might be useful :) (runs away!)
 

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Absolutely do not sign the prenup and don't let him bully you into this arrangement. Who the hell does this guy think he is?!! You are suppose to be equal partners, he is treating your with such disrespect and disregard for your feelings. Don't let him make the rules and set the standards. He is acting like you are so lucky to be with him. F*ck that. Keep your standards high and don't settle for anything less than you deserve. I would never sign this. But you need to be able to negotiate with him and be willing to walk away if he refuses to budge. Remember you have more worth than this.
 

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He just wants the privileges that come with marrying a citizen. Seems pretty selfish to me. If he is economically independent and wants to stay that way and just wants a relationship based on emotions (and I guess sex, but who knows if fidelity is in the mix, the prenup basically gives him carte blanche to cheat on you with no consequences whatsoever, except maybe his residence permit status in case of D) there is no need to get married.

Call off the wedding therefore no need for a prenup and see how he reacts. My guess is he won't be too happy about that because most likely he is the golddigger in this case. He is just not digging for gold. Also seems pretty controlling.
 

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I dont see anything super out of line...i mean this is just version 1...right? Its like any other contract, you can ask for the moon...that doesnt mean its gonna end that way.

Get out your red pen and line through the items you dont like....there you go.

For maximum fun....counter the no alimony with an offer that he make one time cash payment to you of 50K should the marriage terminate for any reason before 25 years. Hell, throw in a house too. (My dad has Repeatedly).
 

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I dont see anything super out of line...i mean this is just version 1...right? Its like any other contract, you can ask for the moon...that doesnt mean its gonna end that way.

Get out your red pen and line through the items you dont like....there you go.

For maximum fun....counter the no alimony with an offer that he make one time cash payment to you of 50K should the marriage terminate for any reason before 25 years. Hell, throw in a house too. (My dad has Repeatedly).
Did you miss the part where she said when she challenges him on it he gets furious and shuts her out for days?
 

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Did you miss the part where she said when she challenges him on it he gets furious and shuts her out for days?
Nope, i got that. He wants her to go through the attorney...then by all means she should do so, at his expense.

Im simply recommending that instead of just taking his BS transparent intimidation attempts....she should take a page out of his book. Call that bluff....if he is attempting to use her fir a visa...this will get it right out there on the table for all to see.

OP is a big girl and and shouldnt hesitate to play hardball to get to the truth.
 

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Is he marrying you to gain citizenship, do you think? I'm thinking this...which explains why the prenup is so specific. I don't see anything wrong with prenups, in general, but in your case, seeing that he's not a citizen, it seems like his way of gaining citizenship and then leaving you without losing anything.

You should sign the prenup with not your name but ''BYE.'' lol Let him become a citizen first, then think of marrying him. Then, we'll see what happens, and if he still desires marrying you. :eek:
 
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