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So, I'll try to keep things brief. I'm new to TAM, so forgive me if I don't use all the abbreviations! Also, I am FIRMLY committed to making my marriage work and have absolutely no desire to divorce my wife. If the advice you're going to give is "Run!" or "Divorce her!", please don't bother. I am looking for honest advice about how to do something very difficult, not take what I believe in my case, is the easy way out. I have forgiven her for cheating on me, but I cannot forgive her (yet) for the years of lying and manipulation.

My wife cheated in 2007. I found out about it in 2011. When I confronted her, she of course lied about everything. I showed her the proof, and she continued to lie. The continued lies made me think there might be more going on, so I continued digging. My fears were proven correct, so I went back to her with more proof. She admitted only to what proof I had, but was obviously lying about other things. So... I continued digging... and found more. Every time I would go back to her with more evidence, she would admit little bits of the truth, but not everything.

In short, I have come to the point where I am no longer going to go back to her with proof. I want her to come to me and show that she is remorseful and can be an honest person. I feel that if I have to continually show her the proof just to get her to tell the truth, I will ALWAYS have to be digging just so that I feel like I can trust her. I have proof of EVERYTHING she did with the other guy. I have told her that I have proof, but I have not shown her the specifics. Obviously, she thinks I'm bluffing and am just trying to trick her into admitting everything.

I know that our marriage can work. But I need her to be honest. I know that she has shown that she is not an honest person, but I believe she can be if she chooses to. We have been going to counseling for over a year, and there has been no progress for either of us. We have a good marriage (minus the trust part) and we have 2 children together. There's a lot worth fighting for.

I have drawn a line in the sand and I will not cross it. She will come forward with the truth or there will be no forgiveness for the lying and manipulation. I will not show her the proof that I have until she does so.

Because I have drawn a line that I will not cross and she will not talk about any of it, we have come to an impasse. There is zero communication when it comes to her affair, so I just stay angry all the time.

Is there anything I can do or say, that does not require me to cave in, make threats, or get a divorce? Maybe somebody here sees things differently than I do. The only advice I get from friends is "Get over it" or "Run!" Is there a third option?
 

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In short, I have come to the point where I am no longer going to go back to her with proof. I want her to come to me and show that she is remorseful and can be an honest person.
Well, if you're looking for a miracle it probably won't happen.

To get her back, you're going to have to be able to give her up. If you can't do that, suck it up and bend over and hope one day she will change.

Other then that, what else do you want?

It's pretty simple, give her your boundaries of what you need from her, if she says no to them you walk.

Or in your case if she says no then you keep your mouth shut and don't complain and hope she doesn't do it again.

BTW, being scared of losing the one you love really sucks. But the really crappy thing is, being in love with someone who doesn't love you the same way back is even worse. Why would you want that? But I love her so much, and.....??? But she doesn't give 2 cents about you and it's only about her.

I gave you your 3rd option if you HAVE TO MAKE THIS marriage work no matter what, even if she isn't willing to. Bend over.
 

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You said it yourself - she needs to choose to be honest. At this point, she isn't choosing to be honest.

Does she fear you will leave if her if she admits it? Probably not. You told her you have proof so you already know, and you're still there and don't want to leave.

Maybe she thinks it would be easier if she kept her mouth shut. If she admits to it, then she'll have to deal with her infidelity and the other problems in your relationship. She obviously doesn't want to deal with it.

Frankly, you can't change her or make her want to be honest with you and work on your relationship. All you can do is know what is and isn't acceptable to you, and act accordingly. Ask her if she wants a divorce, because her choices have led you to believe she doesn't want to be married to you.
 

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Tacoma99... there is nothing YOU can do. YOU have done everything thus far. She isn't remorseful. She isn't offering any info.

You said you don't want anyone to suggest divorce. You don't want to take the easy way out. What makes you think divorce is the "easy way"??? Both of my sisters have gone through divorce and they can attest that it is anything BUT easy. You don't want anyone to suggest that? Ok... see ya.
 

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You say you've drawn your line in the sand, but you don't say what you're going to do about it if she crosses it, which she is. There have to be consequences to her for not telling the whole truth, and since you aren't willing to end it, what ARE you willing to do?? Threats are no longer threats when they have a clear course of action when what you want doesn't happen. Then they become alternatives. "You either tell me the whole truth or you don't. If you do then we can proceed with R. If you don't then I am going to......". Frankly, anything short of ending the relationship will mean very little.
 

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Is there anything I can do or say, that does not require me to cave in, make threats, or get a divorce? Maybe somebody here sees things differently than I do. The only advice I get from friends is "Get over it" or "Run!" Is there a third option?
Yes, get over it while running!
 

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So, I'll try to keep things brief. I'm new to TAM, so forgive me if I don't use all the abbreviations! Also, I am FIRMLY committed to making my marriage work and have absolutely no desire to divorce my wife. If the advice you're going to give is "Run!" or "Divorce her!", please don't bother. I am looking for honest advice about how to do something very difficult, not take what I believe in my case, is the easy way out. I have forgiven her for cheating on me, but I cannot forgive her (yet) for the years of lying and manipulation.

My wife cheated in 2007. I found out about it in 2011. When I confronted her, she of course lied about everything. I showed her the proof, and she continued to lie. The continued lies made me think there might be more going on, so I continued digging. My fears were proven correct, so I went back to her with more proof. She admitted only to what proof I had, but was obviously lying about other things. So... I continued digging... and found more. Every time I would go back to her with more evidence, she would admit little bits of the truth, but not everything.

In short, I have come to the point where I am no longer going to go back to her with proof. I want her to come to me and show that she is remorseful and can be an honest person. I feel that if I have to continually show her the proof just to get her to tell the truth, I will ALWAYS have to be digging just so that I feel like I can trust her. I have proof of EVERYTHING she did with the other guy. I have told her that I have proof, but I have not shown her the specifics. Obviously, she thinks I'm bluffing and am just trying to trick her into admitting everything.

I know that our marriage can work. But I need her to be honest. I know that she has shown that she is not an honest person, but I believe she can be if she chooses to. We have been going to counseling for over a year, and there has been no progress for either of us. We have a good marriage (minus the trust part) and we have 2 children together. There's a lot worth fighting for.

I have drawn a line in the sand and I will not cross it. She will come forward with the truth or there will be no forgiveness for the lying and manipulation. I will not show her the proof that I have until she does so.

Because I have drawn a line that I will not cross and she will not talk about any of it, we have come to an impasse. There is zero communication when it comes to her affair, so I just stay angry all the time.

Is there anything I can do or say, that does not require me to cave in, make threats, or get a divorce? Maybe somebody here sees things differently than I do. The only advice I get from friends is "Get over it" or "Run!" Is there a third option?
ABSOLUTELY there is a third option. Your wife is wayward. She is like an addict right now, and you need to help her.

First thing: Who is this loser OM she's been with? Is he married? How did they meet?

Your marriage is very salvageable. You need to take control of this NOW, and you can - tell us more about the OM.
 

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The THREAT of divorce is a tool.
And so is divorce.

There are several paths in your future.

1. You continue as you are. She cheats, you discover, you disclose and frown. That's a game you two are playing. And you're losing.

2.You expose the cheating...far & wide. Disclose it to everyone whose esteem she values. Expose the affair to the other man's ( OM) wife or girl friend, parents, etc.
This may cause the OM to drop your wife. But it won't necessarily stop her wayward ways.

3. You play hardball. But you need to act with confidence and courage. Serve her with divorce papers without warning. Go cold, no chats, conversations etc.

You see Tacoma, women have no respect for men that don't respect themselves. It's a FACT.

She has it in her mind that you are not worthy of her, or any woman's affection - because you grovel, beg, plead, demean yourself.

In her eyes, no real man does that. Not even. A real man, in her view - does what her boyfriends do - they act decisively and take what they want.

Read the newbie posts - Hope 1964 has a link at the bottom of her post. You are trying to herd cats with your approach. And if you dismiss out-of-hand suggestions that involve hardball you might as well just give her permission to "get it out of her system". Anything else will fail.

Sorry you are in such a horrible situation. You do need help. But you must be willing to really consider the suggestions that have been proven to work (IF there is any real chance at saving the marriage - frankly it is very doubtful in your case).

Good luck
 

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Is there anything I can do or say, that does not require me to cave in, make threats, or get a divorce? Maybe somebody here sees things differently than I do. The only advice I get from friends is "Get over it" or "Run!" Is there a third option?
You ask in your thread title "Am I missing something? The answer is yes. It is the only advice that you get because they are your only options, but you do not seem to understand what these options really mean. Getting over it without her being honest and showing remorse means that you are in false reconciliation and that she will probably cheat again. Running by filing for divorce and meaning it, if she does not show remorse while also being honest, means that you may give her a real reason to take you seriously and begin the process of true reconciliation. In other words, getting over it means a long and painful death of your marriage, while filing for divorce is the only hope of maybe saving your marriage long term.

That being said, filing will only save your marraige if your wife really wants to save your marraige. If she does not, then are you not better off finding this our now? The truth is your wife may be a cheater with no remorse at her core and may in fact be cheating right now. If that is the case, there is nothing you can do to change her. If you decide that you will not divorce no matter what, then accept the fact that your wife will be f*cking other men and stop trying to catcher her at it as it will only make you suffer. Stick your head in the sand and wait until she leaves you for a man that demands her respect. If that is the life that you want to live so be it.

There is no silver bullet that will make her something that she may not be. There is no way to earn her respect without you respecting yourself first. Respect is not given, it is taken. Based on your current course of action I fear that this will not end well for you in the long run. Good Luck and be well
 

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I faced the same situation. My wife had an affair which began as an EA in 2008 and morphed into a PA in summer 2009 - Fall 2009. I discovered the relationship in August 2010 but didn't know the extent of the affair. My wife let me believe it was an EA until we separated and she moved out 2 months ago. So she kept this secret for 3 plus years. It poisoned everything.

So we were attempting R - but it was a false R because my wife was hiding the PA. In other words - we were at the same impasse as you and the problem just festered and eventually dominated and poisoned everything. The result was a complete breakdown of any hope of regaining trust and our eventual separation. In hindsight, I should have asked her to leave in 2010 upon discovering the EA and the resulting lies even from that.

There can be many reasons your wife isn't being truthful - shame, embarrassment, inability to face up to her mistakes.... or she could just be an evil, lying sociopathic cheat. But it's almost guaranteed that if she kept the secret that long, she not going to be truthful unless something happens to make her want to be truthful.

My recommendation is do NOT stay at an impasse. The problems will just fester and your marriage will be killed - completely. Do something to break the impasse. That may mean asking her to leave and going NC during the separation. And she should be the one to leave. My wife wanted me to leave and I refused - saying I was not the one who wanted to be single. Be firm and try not to be emotional (which is tough in these cases).

Break the impasse, don't let her stonewall anymore.
 

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Well, you don't want the advice of "Divorce," or "Run away!"

And your wife is a big cake eating, double timing, lying, manipulating, cheating wayward who won't change her ways until the sh!t hits the fan.

So...

You want your wife to suddenly wake up, realize everything she has done, and beg for your love again?
And I am willing to bet, since you discovered the affair in 2011, you have been trying this for going on 2, maybe even 3 years now.
You know, the definition of insanity, is doing the exact same thing over and over again, and expecting a different outcome.

So how many times have you tried getting her to turn around? Ten? Twenty? Thirty? Do I need to go higher?
I honestly don't know why you are still hanging onto her.
Your kids will understand if you divorce.


I guess the only advice I can give, since you say you don't want us tell you what you need to hear...

I hope you are ready to live in a one-way open marriage. Seems like you have been since 2007, and have no intentions to stop it. So might as well get use to it.
Because until you nut up, your situation won't change.
 

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You know she is lying. She knows you know and still denies.

What are your options?

1. Stay
2. Leave
3. Kick her out

Those are the options you can control. Your WW determines what happens after that. So far you are on option 1. How is it working?
 

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If you love something, set it free..

You need to allow yourself to be free before any form of Reconciliation can even begin.

End the MC. It is a waste of time.
Attend Individual counsling.
Expose the cheating to family and friends
Start building a life which is independent of her. She has!
 

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You don't want to hear run or diviorce, so

My advice is to accept that your wfe chose without guilt or remorse to have sex many times with another man. She has shown neither remorse nor guilt, which means she has neither love nor respect for you.

So since you are unwilling to leave someone who doesn't love you, doesn't repesct you, and has no guilt over cheating on you, my advice is to accept it and get used to it because it will happen again.
 

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H, one other suggestion set:

1. Post the OM on cheaterville.com
2. Take the evidence you have and send it to the OMW
3. Exposé the affair including evidence to family and close friends.
 

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The most important prerequisite of successful R is the cooperation of the WS. If she is not cooperating you will stay angry and, as cedarman said, it will fester and poison everything.

You need to be more proactive and not wait for her to do the right thing. Have you told her family, friends, OM's wife, co-workers etc. Perhaps fear of others finding out is allowing her to cling to lies. If everyone already knows what she's done she may be more willing to work with you.

You must make sure she knows what you require of her to R. Otherwise her fear, shame, etc. will have her trying to maintain the status quo.
 

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There is no impasse, she is getting her way. She won't talk about it and that is it. You can continue to hold your breath and get as blue as you like,

Only action works. You don't want to here it or do anything about it, so it is what it is. Get over it is you only option. She knows it and it is time you to realize it.
 

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My wife cheated in 2007. I found out about it in 2011. When I confronted her, she of course lied about everything. I showed her the proof, and she continued to lie. The continued lies made me think there might be more going on, so I continued digging. My fears were proven correct, so I went back to her with more proof. She admitted only to what proof I had, but was obviously lying about other things. So... I continued digging... and found more. Every time I would go back to her with more evidence, she would admit little bits of the truth, but not everything.

In short, I have come to the point where I am no longer going to go back to her with proof. I want her to come to me and show that she is remorseful and can be an honest person. I feel that if I have to continually show her the proof just to get her to tell the truth, I will ALWAYS have to be digging just so that I feel like I can trust her. I have proof of EVERYTHING she did with the other guy. I have told her that I have proof, but I have not shown her the specifics. Obviously, she thinks I'm bluffing and am just trying to trick her into admitting everything.

I know that our marriage can work. But I need her to be honest. I know that she has shown that she is not an honest person, but I believe she can be if she chooses to. We have been going to counseling for over a year, and there has been no progress for either of us. We have a good marriage (minus the trust part) and we have 2 children together. There's a lot worth fighting for.
Do you know who the OM is?

Was the affair exposed, to who?

Are you able to verify NC?

Time to schedule a polygraph test for your WW.
 

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I am looking for honest advice about how to do something very difficult, not take what I believe in my case, is the easy way out.
Divorce is not the easy way out. It usually means finding another place to live, not having full access to your kids, losing a bunch of your possessions and spending a lot in legal fees, and splitting up any money you have accumulated over the years. It usually means starting to date again, sometimes after 10 or 20 years, which can be a rather daunting task.

In short, I have come to the point where I am no longer going to go back to her with proof. I want her to come to me and show that she is remorseful and can be an honest person.

I have drawn a line in the sand and I will not cross it. She will come forward with the truth or there will be no forgiveness for the lying and manipulation. we have come to an impasse
Both of you are doing nothing. The easiest thing to do, is nothing. Ignore what's going on, pretend life is good and that your marriage is healthy, and wait. Maybe an asteroid will hit the planet and your problems will be solved.

I know that our marriage can work. But I need her to be honest.
And I know I can fly, all I need to do is sprout wings.

Your point?


There is zero communication when it comes to her affair, so I just stay angry all the time.
The effects of conflict and stress are cumulative.

Something has to give, and it won't be your wife.

Edited to Add:

I just stay angry all the time.

We have a good marriage (minus the trust part) and we have 2 children together. There's a lot worth fighting for
You say your marriage is good, and you have 2 young children, and those seem to be the main reasons to fight what appears to be a losing battle.

Your marriage isn't as good as you think it is if your wife is getting her needs met somewhere else, at least not from her perspective. If you're angry all the time, you're not having a good time of it either. As far as your kids are concerned, if dad's angry and miserable and mom's out screwing another guy and giving him the attention she's not giving her own family, then it's lose/lose all the way around.

You're fighting a losing battle to try to save something that isn't even worth fixing.
 
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