[FarmTownGirl]

FarmTownGirl, you sound like a cool person, but I have to agree with HappyHusband - you sound like a lot of work.
...Men aren't so complex, we want to minimize pain and maximize pleasure, so here he is thinking "cool, I get to go to the beach, see my woman in swimsuit, drink beer...". and then suddenly he's thrown into this complex emotional issue with you that he does not understand and cannot win. ...

Oh... I think that is exactly what happened.

Minefields are not safe places and you'll never get the validation your craving that way. Keep putting those up and pretty soon you'll never see that soulful side of him.

Right. Trying to hard to get someone close to you invariably pushes them away. How ironic that I created a minefield for him trying to communicate to him that he didn't have to worry about upsetting me. That's almost funny.

Don't overlook your need for validation. It sounds like that's an old issue for you and something you should spend time and energy towards addressing. Just don't look to him to fix it.

There is my challenge. I really do want validation. It's important to me. The way sex is important to him. Let me know if you have any suggestions on how one addresses that.

 

[DownByTheRiver]

Thanks - we're not actually married. I joke that he has ODD (Oppositional Defiance Disorder). He has definitely gotten better with me though. Part of it is just spending more time together and learning how to not push each other's buttons. I think I'm ADD, I don't know about him. It's possible. He is NOT a good listener and he acknowledges this. We'd have a conversation where he would keep talking and I'd respond and then he'd just keep talking like I'd never said a word.

THE GOOD NEWS THOUGH is describing this I'm realizing how much better he's gotten about that. I'm realizing he really is trying and changing for me.

Your friend is a real piece of work. I hope she got a terrible deal on her car, LOL! Did she change at all after your serious talk? She sounds a bit like my mom. I used to do little experiments with my mom just putting an idea out there knowing she would take the opposite view.

WOW! You changed her life. That is so great that she was able/willing to make an effort. I hope her daughter is doing better. I have to laugh because my mom who contradicts everything also thinks she is so positive. She loves to lecture on how important being positive is. But he criticism and negativity left a mark on me. I went over the deep end in the opposite direction of letting people walk all over me because I didn't want to be that shrew. Now she loves to tell me what a difficult child I was and how she can't understand why I put up with men treating me poorly (past not present) I just think, well mom, apparently you wore me down. I'm trying to assert myself now and apparently I'm not doing so great at it.

Sounds familiar. I didn't change my friend's life. I only changed her behavior with me. Her and her best friend her sister are cut from the same cloth and that's how those two reinforce each other's eccentricities.

 

[FarmTownGirl]

Grandmother was a wise woman.
no, no, no, no, no to all those questions.
EXCEPT -- is he fulfilling his duties as a BF/SO. I'm in my 50's and this is the first time I really stopped to think before jumping into a relationship. I told myself there are two things I really want in a man:
1. One who enjoys deep conversations.
2. One who is generous of spirit -- like if someone needs help, he'd volunteer and enjoy doing it.

He is everything I ever dreamed of in a man except those two things. However, If I don't think about those two things I'm really happy.

A few questions your grandmother would have posed - is he misunderstanding you to the point he sits on his arse all day and is chronically unemployed/underemployed?

- Is he misunderstanding you to the point he is falling down drunk or using drugs?

- is he misunderstanding you to the point he is abusing, neglecting or abandoning you?

- is he misunderstanding you to the point he is not loving you and showing you affection and giving you orgasms?

-is he misunderstanding you to the point he would neglect his children to the point of harm?’

- is he misunderstanding you to the point the roof is leaking every time it rains and the cars won’t run?

-is he misunderstanding you to the point he is hooking up with other women?

I can go on but hopefully you are getting my point.

If not my point her is whether he is fulfilling the job description of boyfriend and performing the tasks you require of a BF/SO/husband or is he not.

Here is the bottom line - he is not a clone of you or your double. He is a separate and individual human being. Forget all this Jeryy McGuire “complete me” bullshyte. He is not going to understand you completely and thoroughly 100% because he is NOT YOU.

But as long as he is doing the job you require of a partner and not dropping the ball on your critical criteria of a BF, you’re going to have to live without a completely merging of your soul.

 

[oldshirt]

Grandmother was a wise woman.
no, no, no, no, no to all those questions.
EXCEPT -- is he fulfilling his duties as a BF/SO. I'm in my 50's and this is the first time I really stopped to think before jumping into a relationship. I told myself there are two things I really want in a man:
1. One who enjoys deep conversations.
2. One who is generous of spirit -- like if someone needs help, he'd volunteer and enjoy doing it.

He is everything I ever dreamed of in a man except those two things. However, If I don't think about those two things I'm really happy.

Then it comes down to are those two things deal breakers for you?

Remember, as a consenting adult, no one has to agree with your deal breakers.

I have dumped someone because they wouldn't polish their toenails or wear sexy lingerie before. Is that any worse/better than not engaging in deep enough conversation or doing the things for you that you want someone to do?

are those key criteria that he is not meeting and there for he is not an adequate mate for you?

 

[SunCMars]

Interesting, I never thought of myself as stubborn before I met this man. And in past relationships the feedback I always got was that I was very chill, easy going, amenable. But I definitely get like a dog with a bone when he misunderstands and won't let me clarify. Stubborn may be too mild a word.

We are both Sagittarius by the way, which as I'm sure you are aware, is the most awesomest sign of all! ;-)

Me too!

 

[So Married]

Men aren't so complex, we want to minimize pain and maximize pleasure, so here he is thinking "cool, I get to go to the beach, see my woman in swimsuit, drink beer...". and then suddenly he's thrown into this complex emotional issue with you that he does not understand and cannot win.

I'm a woman, but this. OP, I believe that when a man loves a woman he genuinely wants to make her as happy as he possibly can. Unfortunately, he doesn't always know how to do that. In situations like the above, he feels like there is no way to win, so he'd rather just dodge. He gets worn out trying to sort it out

We all need validation, but you may be getting extreme. You even used the word obsessed. It translates to desperate, needy, and as two others have already mentioned, "a lot of work." That's not fun to be around. He even said to you, "let's just have fun." He's telling you in a nice way that you are not being much fun.

My suggestion is to learn some techniques to self-soothe, and worry less about small issues. Don't expect to get all of your validation from him. Pick your battles, so you make sure you're heard and understood when it's something major.

And do him a favor -- spare him the 19 seconds of life he is about to lose to getting information he already has.

This sounds like you're pretty angry, but from what you've told, it doesn't seem like he was trying to be a "selfish jerk." More like he just doesn't know what to do when you get like this.

He would jump in so fast and adamantly when he he thought I was going to repeat a story that I interpreted it as:
"you are so boring it's painful. I'm in a total panic to stop you from talking."

Sadly, he could be starting to feel this way, more so the latter part. Many men would prefer that you use as few words as possible, especially when you start to get emotional/obsessive. If things stay like this, it is likely that he will eventually leave.

I'm not saying any of this to be mean. I'm actually trying to help. When needs aren't being met, people can get a little carried away sometimes.The important part is to recognize and put on the brakes. Perhaps look into ways to improve self-acceptance, to help avoid constant approval seeking.

 

[Blondilocks]

He's hard of hearing which may account for some misunderstandings, but doesn't explain why he resists my attempts to clarify things.

I don't think you understand how draining it is for a person who is hard of hearing to engage in conversations. If you want a man to have 'deep' conversations with, you picked the wrong guy. If you want a guy to listen to you natter on about whatever you're trying to clarify, you picked the wrong guy (I don't know anyone who would be gung ho for that).

Hearing impairment is no walk in the park.

 

[Divinely Favored]

OK so from what you describe, you are worrying about clarifying something that didn't need to be clarified. He didn't like or dislike your idea he just figured, you know what we need ice here too so lets get some for the beach on the way. To be perfectly honest I think I would have responded similarly to him. Sounds like your guy is decisive which is a good thing, Your idea reminded him the bag at the house was the only bag, he thought if we take this bag we will need more ice very soon so let's just leave this ice here and get a bag on the way. It really is that simple, nothing else to read into, he probably didn't give it a second thought, it really didn't require any analysis or discussion. You made a valid point he came up with a better solution.

Same thought crossed my mind also, when he said forget it that was my exavt thought. But he was being ****ish for the way he was acting and he should have explained to her his train of thought. Or he was just being pissy and not wanting to go to the trouble and dismissing her outright because it was a change to HIS plan.

There is lack of communication but he also seems like a dik in how he adressed it.

 

[Livvie]

I also agree these conversations look like a lot of work. And I'm a female.

If it were me, and my guy's reply to my suggestion that we open the ice bag to take some out to leave at home for later use was: leave this one, we'll buy another one on the way out my reply would be-- awesome idea, let's go!

Not only do we not need to **** around taking and storing ice out of the existing bag, but we get to have a whole bag left in the freezer and get another whole one for the beach.

That sure feels " emotionally connected" to me. His idea is taking care of me and us. We get ample ice for home AND our beach trip.

If I were with someone who wanted to talk that situation to death I'd want to crawl away.

I think you are labelling "emotional connection" as what's really some emotional and personality traits you personally need to work on and solve yourself, and have NOTHING to do with him or your relationship.

 

[heartsbeating]

I also agree these conversations look like a lot of work. And I'm a female.

If it were me, and my guy's reply to my suggestion that we open the ice bag to take some out to leave at home for later use was: leave this one, we'll buy another one on the way out my reply would be-- awesome idea, let's go!

Not only do we not need to **** around taking and storing ice out of the existing bag, but we get to have a whole bag left in the freezer and get another whole one for the beach.

That sure feels " emotionally connected" to me. His idea is taking care of me and us. We get ample ice for home AND our beach trip.

Absolutely.

 

[ccpowerslave]

Livvie nailed what I was trying to say.

 

[DownByTheRiver]

If he's hard of hearing you may need to put the important things in writing and keep them as brief as possible.

 

[FarmTownGirl]

So Married, thank you I know you are trying to help and I appreciate it. You do not seem mean at all. ;-)

This sounds like you're pretty angry, but from what you've told, it doesn't seem like he was trying to be a "selfish jerk." More like he just doesn't know what to do when you get like this.

Every time this has happened it did not start out with long windedness, anger, or validation seeking (not consciously) on my part. With the misunderstandings, 1. I would say something, 2. he would completely misunderstand, 3. I would begin to clarify, 3. he would immediately get agitated and refuse to let me clarify. Literally I could not get one sentence out. 4. Then I would get obsessed with explaining, and he'd get obsessed with not letting me explain.

Maybe there is something in my voice that triggers him, he thinks I'm upset or critical when I'm just trying to clarify what I said. My mom does that, if you don't understand her, her voice rises and becomes more shrill and she seems angry. And no, you don't want to be around her. Maybe I was unknowingly coming across that way.

It's just that I've never experienced this dynamic with another human being before in my life.

Sadly, he could be starting to feel this way, more so the latter part. Many men would prefer that you use as few words as possible, especially when you start to get emotional/obsessive. If things stay like this, it is likely that he will eventually leave.

Well the good news is that my examples were old and things have really gotten better already. And with the help on here I'm realizing that no, he is not some a-hole that doesn't care about me at all. 100% I know that when this happens, if I just STOP, it only takes him 1/2 a second to be back to normal. I feel hurt and frustrated but within 30 to 60 second I can put that on hold knowing I can feel sorry for myself or bring the subject up later if it remains important to me.

I just want to make sure I'm not rug sweeping an important issue because in past relationships that's what I did, pretend I was fine when I wasn't and then become really resentful.

 

[FarmTownGirl]

I also agree these conversations look like a lot of work. And I'm a female.

If it were me, and my guy's reply to my suggestion that we open the ice bag to take some out to leave at home for later use was: leave this one, we'll buy another one on the way out my reply would be-- awesome idea, let's go!

Not only do we not need to **** around taking and storing ice out of the existing bag, but we get to have a whole bag left in the freezer and get another whole one for the beach.

That sure feels " emotionally connected" to me. His idea is taking care of me and us. We get ample ice for home AND our beach trip.

If I were with someone who wanted to talk that situation to death I'd want to crawl away.

I think you are labelling "emotional connection" as what's really some emotional and personality traits you personally need to work on and solve yourself, and have NOTHING to do with him or your relationship.

This makes total sense. So let me ask you: if you were in the same situation and after your gave your idea on the ice your husband said "We have to go to the store to buy ice now because you don't like my original idea, and you said "I'm fine with your original idea" and he insisted you were not fine with it, would that bother you? Or would you not even really notice/care?

I wasn't upset about how we got the ice, I was upset that he kept telling me that I felt it was my way or the highway with the ice. When I did not at all.

 

[FarmTownGirl]

This is interesting because you misunderstood me in the exact same way he did. (I put comments on that in bold italics in your quote if you're interested).

But I'd love to get your take on the SIP conversation debacle since you may think similarly to him. So let me clarify (Please ;-) )

He had seen me looking at precut kits for making post and beam homes online. They design a home, cut all the lumbar to size, then sell you that "kit" and you construct the home. They happen to use SIP (Structural Insulated Panels) in their kits. It is not a modular/prefab home though. Has nothing to do with one of those.

When I mentioned SIP for walls his response was "I don't want a modular/prefab home, those suck, not gonna happen, end of discussion."

When I said "I'm not talking about modular/prefab..." he said "I know what you are talking about, you showed me that prebuilt house on the internet."

Now we have two misunderstandings - 1) I'm not talking about the house I coincidentally showed him on the internet." 2) The house I showed him on the internet was not a modular/prefab. And I realize he does not know what SIP is.

But when I say "that's not what I'm talking about" he is like "yes it is, there is not reason to discuss, we're not doing that."

This happened in a SNAP -- It wasn't me going on and on or pushing him to use SIP -- I just asked if he knew about it, he clearly misunderstood based on his response, and the second I tried to clarify he insisted he did not misunderstand and any more discussion was a waste of time. THEN I got frustrated and determined to be understood, and, well, that didn't end well...

I understand a man not wanting to listen to a woman talk for an hour about her shopping trip, personal dramas at work, thoughts on fingernail polish color, etc. But I honestly don't understand why if it's a 1 minute conversation so far and his wife said "No, that's not what I'm talking about." why he would adamantly refuse to hear and think about what she is talking about.

Thoughts?

FTG, a big part of a problem we have is we can't see the inflections in yours or his voice or y'all body language when these verbal shoot outs are going on. For example, responding with the word "fine" can have dramatically different meanings depending on how its said.
True and I'm wondering if there is a tone I get that I'm not aware of when I feel misunderstood that screams "danger! danger!" to him. FTR - I am not one of those "fine!" when it's not fine women. I seldom get upset and when I do, I try to be direct.

My take at this point is to believe you want confirmation that he's listening by him doing it your way.
No, confirmation that he's listening would have been him believing me when I told him "my way" regarding the ice was not important to me at all. 0 percent important.

Going back to your "ice" example, it didn't sound like he misunderstood you. He understood exactly what you said. And you did get upset when he didn't act on your idea.
No. I got upset that he was telling me we could no longer just grab the whole bag like he originally suggested because, according to him, once I voice an idea we had to do it that way or I will become upset. Even though I was telling him, explicitly, that I didn't care about my idea, his original idea was absolutely fine.

Does that make any sense to you or is what upset me crazy-woman-talk baffling?

Here's the thing. you both had logical reason for handling the ice--take some out for later and, it will spill out of the bag. I personally like yours better because it would ensure ice when I got home and I could control the spillage. Nevertheless, I wasn't particularly impressed with the way you framed the question, "why don't we". "We" ain't taking the ice out the bag. "He" was taking the ice out of the bag and didn't want to put forth the effort. What would you feel is he said, "That's a good idea. Why don't you put some ice in a bowl and seal the bag so it doesn't spill?"

I was actually the one getting the ice out of the freezer at his direction - "grab that bag of ice." Maybe that's why he felt I was unnecessarily complicating things - he says "grab a bag of ice" and I start a conversation about our ice options. But the argument happened later when I brought it up to tell him I really was ok if he rejected my idea.

(I don't know why the hell it would matter if it spilled when its in a cooler)
He is a man of action and I am an overthinker. I think the second I started to say anything about what we could do with the ice, he shut down mentally. He just wanted the ice in the ice chest. If I had just opened it and put some in a bowl, he would not have complained (not much anyhow). But the Ice story is just one example of the "That's not what I meant, I meant abc" - "I know exactly what you meant, you meant XYZ so drop it" "You don't understand and I can't drop it until you do" "I understand completely, you think XYZ" endless loop conversation.

The house building is a little more complicated. Whether its stick built or pre-fab is a minor issue compared to the other crap you go through. If you really want to know the strength of a relationship, try building a house together.
I can't wait! What could possibly go wrong? Actually I trust him completely on that as long as I get my walk in pantry and mudroom, I'll be happy. I do wish he would let me explain SIP to him one time (or read up on it himself) so he at least knows about it when making the building material decisions.

 

[FarmTownGirl]

I don't think you understand how draining it is for a person who is hard of hearing to engage in conversations. If you want a man to have 'deep' conversations with, you picked the wrong guy. If you want a guy to listen to you natter on about whatever you're trying to clarify, you picked the wrong guy (I don't know anyone who would be gung ho for that).

Hearing impairment is no walk in the park.

Yeah, it's so frustrating to him that he just pretends he heard when he didn't. That used to really upset me too because he'd act like we were communicating and he hadn't heard a word. It pissed me off because he was pretending to hear, but thinking about it from his perspective it would be beyond exhausting to keep saying "what did you say" to everyone. Especially with his very action oriented personality.

Now when I say something important and I don't feel he understood I will say "Did you understand that I said xyz?" and I am super careful with my tone - I'm asking a simple question, not complaining at him. And I only do it when there was valuable information for him in the comment. That seems to be working out much better.

I do have a problem with the fact that he has 2 pair of high end hearing aids that were given to him, but he won't wear them because he doesn't like the feeling in his ear. I feel like he can't help he is hard of hearing, but it does affect me and he's not willing to try to do something about it.

On the bright side, I've kept a HILARIOUS log on my phone of things he thought I said. One of my favorites is:
Me: A man is king of his castle!
Him: Penis is fantastic?
(Proving that men do just hear what they want to hear.)

 

[DownByTheRiver]

So when he tells you he doesn't know why you're even talking about it, that's because he can't hear it.

I was the first one to let my sister know she was hard of hearing and she had a rage fit at me about it and then didn't do anything about it for years. she also got a hearing aid and then quit wearing it.

 

[QuietRiot]

I actually get what you’re saying. The examples are just examples but you feel like he is unnecessarily shutting down the convo and making assumptions about your opinion when you don’t think he understands your actual opinion/information. And assigning various labels while doing the shutting down.

 

[Livvie]

This makes total sense. So let me ask you: if you were in the same situation and after your gave your idea on the ice your husband said "We have to go to the store to buy ice now because you don't like my original idea, and you said "I'm fine with your original idea" and he insisted you were not fine with it, would that bother you? Or would you not even really notice/care?

I wasn't upset about how we got the ice, I was upset that he kept telling me that I felt it was my way or the highway with the ice. When I did not at all.

Well, YOU WEREN'T FINE with his original idea. Right? Because you then went on about how you'd have to take some ice out of it to leave in the freezer in case you wanted drinks when you got home. You in fact didn't want to just grab the ice bag from the freezer and go. You shot down his original idea.

 

[re16]

Well, YOU WEREN'T FINE with his original idea. Right? Because you then went on about how you'd have to take some ice out of it to leave in the freezer in case you wanted drinks when you got home. You in fact didn't want to just grab the ice bag from the freezer and go. You shot down his original idea.

This is exactly right and why he is annoyed. Can't he just grab a bag of ice he has in the freezer (perhaps bought for this very purpose) without being told its a problem?

I've seen a lot of problems in my life, but this ice thing, it surely is not one of them. I would take a step back on things like this in the future.... it really isn't worth telling someone else there is a problem with their idea over something so insignificant. Think big picture before you talk - ask yourself - is this really a problem to the extent that I need to say something...

He probably knows a decent amount about construction and simply didn't want to do what you do to him and go into a long drawn out thing about telling you how your SIP idea was a bad one.... (They are almost always glued to OSB and not plywood and therefore forever susceptible to any moisture and almost always a bad idea).

Pick your battles going forward or you'll end up with no one to battle with.