[Hotaru]

Kind of a long background story- my husband and I have been married for 22 years. We have one daughter, a pre-teen. Both of our interests are to do the best things for our daughter. We have differences in our personalities but very similar perspectives about life and value, but we often argue about so many things and lately I feel lost. After living in the US, I feel like I should have a close friend who I can talk to, but living in the small town makes it difficult to meet people whom I can spill my guts out without backfiring myself, and I can’t afford to pay for a therapist.., so here it goes.

We met in the dorm of a university where I was studying in the ESL program and he was majoring Japanese. We fell in love and decided to live together in Japan while he was there as an exchange student and came back to the US and have been here since. We live in a small town in NY where he grew up. I work from home in health care, and he switched his career last September. He has worked in a police dept. for 15 years but the tremendous stress from the job was effecting his health, so he finally left the very toxic environment and started working in a school district, which he loves very much.

He really never left the place, though… He still gets calls and texts from the people at his previous job as they are very unhappy with the situation there now. One officer in particular was treated so poorly by the superiors that she came to see him in tears. My husband, of course feels responsible and tries to console and give advices whenever asked for, sometimes legal advices with a phone call lasting for two hours…. I have been trying to be a supportive wife and listen to him and tell him that I care about his own emotional well-being as he says that listening to them drains and takes him back to those dark years. He defends that they need my help and can’t turn them away, so we try to be their friends and invite this officer for dinners or just to hang out. I know he would help any one of them equally if they needed, but he had a special interest and saw so much potential in her when he hired her, so he naturally shows great sympathy towards this officer. I’m just there making foods for them, sitting and not say much as they often end up talking about the difficult situations she’s in and general complains about her work. He encourages her to find another job as she would excel in any other field, but since it was her childhood dream, she doesn’t want to give up, and he realizes his limitation on helping her, as he characterizes her as self-righteous and yet naive. But, as most cops are, they are addicted to adrenaline. As much as it takes a toll on them, they get high from the rush and by talking about how crappy it is, they are re-living the drama and gives them the excitement. That’s my observation on why he keeps talking to her about all the problems although I may be way off with that assumption.

Anyways, my daughter worships this officer and talks about wanting see her all the time, and my husband highly speaks of her all the time. He told me that someone from the church he goes to asked if she was his wife - I’m not a Christian and do not go to church service, and he jokingly said he should have said he wished, this 7 foot-tall with double major Goddess was my wife! I’m not jealous of this officer, I don’t think he’s attracted to her romantically at all, he thinks I’m crazy when I tease him about it. But it is true that he’s paying more attention to her and shows quite a bit more respect to her than me, and that hurts.

We used to do more things together as a family, but things are starting to fall apart. We do have good conversations sometimes, enjoy watching shows on tv, spend time with his parents, sister & her partner, but those are pretty much the only things we do together at this point. We have not had an intimacy for months, he’s interested in playing his saxophone, smoking his pipe and going to church, while I’m interested in rock music, skateboarding, photography and playing electronic music. He supports my hobbies but does not take over chores so I have time to do what I like to which I’ve been resentful for a while, but the routines have not changed even after he changed his job and have more time. I lack my vocabulary and articulation when we have an argument, and he loves to argue. All these 20 plus years, I’ve said things I regret and acted the way he did not deserve, and I’m not sure if there are any feelings left for each other.

He says I need a friend, and it’d be nice if I had a friend. All my close friends are in Japan. I am friendly, but I don’t go around and ask people if they want to hung out. It’s not easy to make friends as an adult in a small town when you look like a foreigner, and most people your age have established circle of friends already. I like talking to people I work with, but I don’t have any contact with them outside the work. It’s not my nature to talk about my personal problems with my co-workers either.

I apologize for randomness of this post, and I’m not sure if I’m looking for any advices, but I needed a place to share these feelings without paying $300/week. Thanks for reading!

 

[Hotaru]

Also, why do you say "borderline" in the thread title? Where did that come from?

Hi, yes I have told him about what goes on my mind may times in the past in details, He seems to take it not very seriously most of the time, and he just moves on.
I put the word “borderline” because of the way I get very flustered, and also I’ve been told that I get mad more often than I should.

 

[Hotaru]

What do you think ended your intimacy in the relationship? What was going on when it fizzled?

She may be 7 ft tall but I don't know if she's straight or gay but he could be more involved with her than you know or be so attached emotionally that he's detaching from you. But if it's been some years since you've been intimate then you have to figure out what started that. Are you a lot younger than him? I asked because you're interests are youngish.

Thanks for your reply! To be honest, I think it falls on me, I admit that I have not been sweet to him lately, or I even say that I have not been very affectionate person from the start and he used to complain a lot about it. But, when he worked his former job and the schedule was all over the place, it definitely made it challenging to find time to feel the closeness.
I’m starting to think that I’m too dull for him, and he requires more stimulation in his life.
I’m actually five years older than he is, but it almost feels like I started my new identity when I moved to the US, and it sounds weird but I feel that I’m much more immature than my actual age. I enjoy those hobbies as outlets since my life has become very repetitive and mundane.

 

[Hotaru]

First of all I think you are an amazing, brave person following your husband to a new country and sticking with your husband while he worked a grueling thankless job.

Now even though your husband has left that job his behaviour is with his former coworker is...unprofessional at best and potentially destructive to your marriage at worst. Most men I know are problem solvers. And she continues to present problems to him which makes him feel special while you a relegated to the background. You say you are not jealous but you are. That's okay, though! A friendly ear is one thing but this woman has inserted herself into your life beyond what is acceptab.

Also is it your husband who says you get angry too much? He is gaslighting you.

I

Thank you so much for the kind words! He left his former job less than a year after he had hired this officer, and he knows how toxic his the place can be and thinks that he can still interject his knowledge and utilize the connections he’s built up to help her. And, I agree with the fact that those things she told him should not be tolerated and we should support her as friends. But, I don’t know much about her as she mostly talks to him when we invite her. My husband and my daughter think she’s a wonderful person, and I’m sure she is, but I have a problem when they show me less respect…

 

[Hotaru]

Thanks everyone! Here are more details I'd left out in the OP for clarification. I apologize.
This officer is 25 years old, kind of like a kid still, so my daughter looks up to her as a big sister, which I can understand as my daughter is an old child. From what my husband has told me, she had a tough time growing up with her biological father leaving the family when she was 9, and her father never spoke to her again. She said her mother is hard on her also, a correctional officer working with a rough crowd herself, her mother warned her about the male dominant work environment.
My husband was the chief of the PD when he hired her, but he just could not stay there any more. There was just too much stress at the time; coordinating with multiple agencies over pandemic, implementing the procedures for the police reform and the community members constantly attacking and questioning what he'd done; his mom being hospitalized, etc... I could go on how crushing and infuriating to see him being in such despair, but he got help. He talked to a pastor, went to the ER, and is feeling much better now.
And, the officer came to him and told him that the people at the PD have been saying inappropriate things to her, and one of her co-workers reported to the village mayor without consulting her first, and she found out after and became very stressed because she did not want to make a big deal about it, but the situation got worse naturally when the lawyers from the village started to contact her and others at the PD. She started to think that people are retaliating by not allowing her to use time off, or making her work overtime shifts, or even stalking her in the police cars. It sounds quite alarming, I know. On top of this, she watched a video of a sergeant's disturbing procedure, and she didn't know what to do because the acting chief is a buddy of this sergeant's.
All of this has been reported but nobody knows what to do, and my husband is trying to hep to the best of his ability, ibut I don't think he knows what to do either.

I have expressed my concerns many times already, but I'll keep trying.

 

[Hotaru]

Are you now having frequent intimacy with your H?

This should be a time to draw closer physically in a young family.

Haha, we’re not young anymore actually! I just turned 50 and he’s 45, and no, we have not been intimate for months. We hug and kiss when we leave the house to go to work or for errands.

 

[Hotaru]

How about a trip back to Japan to see your family? (Stupid Covid probably won't let you but still )Take hubs and daughter and go back home. Rekindle the spark from where you first met and put some distance from uncomfortable situation.

I would really love to do that, or just to anywhere on a family trip, but they don’t even want to come for a walk with the dogs with me lately.

 

[Hotaru]

All of that is awful for such a young woman to go through and you are a kind caring woman. But that means she is vulnerable and your husband feels responsible because he hired her. This has all the potential to spiral out of control before anyone knows what is happening. Trust your woman's intuition!

The fact that she’s so young and trying to do the right things makes her admirable, and I’d hate myself even more if I told him to turn her away. I do tell him to suggest her to talk to someone professional for her mental health issues as he is still going through some anxiety himself.

 

[Hotaru]

I doubt if you are borderline. I'm still wondering if that's your word or someone else's.

All that detail in the recent post means nothing to me! Let me summarise back to you what I hear:

• my husband has a relationship with a younger woman, that worries me
• I've told him, and he dismisses my concerns.
• Maybe I've "got mad" and told him in too much detail, in a way he can't hear.

I emphasise "maybe". I'm only hearing one side of this. I'm guessing he's torn between his guilt at doing this, and his compulsion to help people. I wish I could hear his version of the story.

I’ve come up with the word, nobody has told me that I had borderline personality. My father had a terrible temper, and my parents used to fight often, and I think I’ve grown impulsive and have trouble communicating effectively when I become emotional. My husband tells me that I often seem to have my own narratives in my head instead of the truth.
I suggested we should get a couple counseling, but his answer was he was not sure if he had time for it. He certainly does not appear to be bothered by anything that’s happening between us.

 

[Hotaru]

If the situation were identical but the young officer were a man, would your husband be making such an effort, know so much about him and his childhood, be making accommodations for the officer, and taking up so much family time? My guess is NO.

You are making excuses for you husband's lack of boundaries and questioning yourself to do it. (you are having a mid-life crisis, your daughter looks up to the officer, your husband feel responsible, etc) Your husband is using his sense of "responsibility", your daughter's idolatry, your insecurity, etc to push the boundaries and keep this woman near him and increase the emotional intimacy with her. Not many men will take on this level of counseling and support for a former colleague without hoping for more. The relationship is serving some purpose for your husband. You have to figure out what that is.

I don't know if something is going on, but if I had to put money on the table I would say he is wishing something were. If anyone is having a midlife crisis here, it is your husband.

I did ask him exactly that, if he would do the same for a male officer, and he said he would absolutely do the same. I also asked him if he’d support me had I done the same for a young man, and he said he would.
But, I mean dudes don’t really get into to this type of situation, and they wouldn’t keep someone else’s spouse on the phone for two hours, and they wouldn’t have come see him crying. One male officer does call him, but it’s always short.

 

[Hotaru]

The point is you do not have as much of a relationship with your husband as she does. The fact that she's 25 is a big turn on to most men. She is definitely puffing his ego up by making him feel like her hero. There is no way she doesn't know that she is crossing some boundaries since he is married. In my thankfully limited experience, women who cling to a man being needy are manipulative and know exactly what they're doing. I have unfortunately seen it at work with a climber who did very little work him sucked up to all the men and made them all feel like heroes and stepped on all the women on her way. She is the worst person I've ever encountered that I had to deal with.

Not saying yours is as bad as all that since at least I guess she's not using him for employment reasons anymore. But I will say that it's been 37 years since I had to deal with that at my work and one of the men who was complicit in it, according to his wife, still gives that girl money after all these years.

The real issue here is that you and your husband are not intimate and haven't been for a long time. Something is terribly wrong in your marriage. Men don't usually just go do without sex. It's highly unlikely that he is either.

You had answered my question about that and had said that that was mostly you. If you are okay with all this and he is okay with all this and not having sex with his wife and having sex with someone else which he must be doing and there are no victims here, then carry on. I just think eventually some woman is going to demand that he leave you to be with him.

I’m pretty sure that her intentions are not to steal my husband from me, I know she’s genuinely feeling lost and needs someone to give her good advice, but you’re right about that her actions are making him feel heroic and needed.
And, you’re absolutely spot on about us not being intimate is the real issue here. I do love him more than anyone else, but after all these years, my drive for sex is not as strong as it used to be. It does make me sad to think that the sparks are fading.
And, I know that he’s not sleeping with this person. He despises people who’d do such things.

 

[Hotaru]

That's great!
Same question of course, do you have frequent intimate times with H, specifically do you and he have sex frequently? If not why?

We have not had sex in several months. Neither of us just hasn’t initiated, probably out of fear of getting disappointed to be told ‘no’.

 

[Hotaru]

Maybe not yet.

The longer he acts as her father (and she clearly has daddy issues) and confidant, the more emotionally bonded they will become, and all it takes is one slip of the hand on a knee, or a hug where one turns their face a little too much and all the emotional stuff can turn physical.

He may be totally not intending for any of that to happen, but it still could happen. And the probability of this happening is greatly increased when you two aren't intimate.

Oh.., you guys are scaring me… Do you think it would be possible when she’s like 6.5 tall and kind of big and loud, and he is like 5.5 and bolding with most hair that’s left is gray?

 

[Hotaru]

For many women, it's about the emotional connection - it's what they find attractive. My wife almost left me for a guy that was 5 foot 4. I'm 6 foot 2.

I don't want to scare you TOO much, but you are best to find some more intimacy with your husband, however you can. It doesn't even need to be intercourse, but more hand holding, rubbing, cuddling, romantic dinners. Don't focus on this woman too much - it'll backfire. Focus on your relationship and just keep a little bit of an eye on her, just in case.

Yeah that is a good idea. I need to stop looking for a reason to have a problem in our marriage. It might be just that we’re going through a rough patch and in need of a repair.

 

[Hotaru]

If two are M, and if no one can even bring up sex for months, something else is horribly wrong.

You may want to be less butt hurt, and initiate every day, to see how it goes. Grow some thicker skin.

Won't even try? Really?

I know it’s stupid, right? I think both of us are a bit neurotic and think way too much.

 

[Hotaru]

Do you want to have sex in your life? That's the question.

I do, yes. It always makes us feel closer and happier when we do, and I know it’s very important for us to feel connected mentally and physically.

 

[Hotaru]

Also you said that he goes to church. If he resists counseling maybe he would agree to talk to his pastor? With or without you if that is what it takes?

Yeah, he actually talks to his pastor all the time. They are good friends, and the pastor knows me as well. I was a photographer at his son's church ceremony, even though I'm not one of his congregations, he supported my creativity and invited me to take the photos.
He helped my husband make a decision to move on from his last job. I wouldn't be surprised if they already had numerous conversations about our marriage.

 

[Hotaru]

You really need to talk to your H and find out what is happening both between the two of you and with the other woman.

My wife recently retired from a lead position at a large organization. She had been there and hired many of the people that worked for her. With the pandemic things got really crazy where she worked. She no longer had the energy or will to deal with all the problems, especially those dealing with reduced funding. Even after two years since she retired, she still gets calls from people she use to supervise to ask questions on how to try to get things done. She also gets invited to group lunches, where old friends share stories. At times when she hears some of the things people are putting up with and the lack of leadership and support they get, she feels very guilty for retiring. Yet, she knows it was the right decision. The point is your spouse may feel some sense of responsibility (and guilt) for no longer being at his PD Chief position, where he shielded people from politics and craziness. Find out if that is what is going on with him.

When you talk to your H, tell him that you understand how stressfull his past job was and that you support his decision to have left. Tell him that you understand his loyalty to those who worked for him and that you like and admire this woman. But also tell him, that even if it is not justified, you can get jealous and have feelings of insecurity that he talks to her so much. You just need reassurances from him that you have no reason to be jealous and that you can trust him. Make sure you tell him that you have personal boundaries and that you will not stand for any emotional or physical affairs and you expect him to honor his vows of marriage.

Then tell him, you want to become intimate with him again. Ask if the two of you might want to start some marriage counseling sessions just to put everything back together. Tell him that you miss the intimacy and closeness you use to feel.

Good luck.

Thank you. Your wife's retirement situation sounds very much like what is going on with him. He was the leader at one point so feels guilty when hearing there is no leadership at the old place. I think he is an extraordinary person, but he has some issues.
I've talked to him, or more like complained to him about these things before, but I was probably too upset to convey what I was really trying to say.
I will try talking to him when I'm calm.

 

[Hotaru]

Hi Hotaru,
I also moved to the US from another culture to be with my exH and felt like I became a new person because of all the adaptations I made to live here, so I understand your feelings and perspective. I've read your posts and some things resonated with me, and I have to echo the posters who caution you about the potential for an inappropriate relationship even though you do not see this young woman as a threat.

Some men do indeed love hero worship and are extremely flattered by the attention of a younger woman, and will lie to your face about it. Your instincts are alerted for a reason, don't dismiss them or allow him to minimize your concerns.
I don't know your husband, but I thought I knew mine until he showed me a completely different face, he was that good a liar.

I voiced my concern within a month about a 19 y/o he hired and mentored when I heard too many mentions of her and she started giving him things to bring home. Granted my experience is different, my ExH had an EA several years before and dismissed my concerns as paranoia and insecurity.

Anyway, we were also sexless (his choice), he cited all kinds of excuses; work stress, midlife crisis (he wasn't happy with his career choices), but the truth is that he was no longer attracted to me, but to his new worshipper and I got tired of being rejected and didn't force a confrontation until I discovered an affair.

You might think she's too young to be a threat and he's not attractive enough for her to be interested in, but she sounds really screwed up and vulnerable to any positive male attention, especially from a man she respects and feels safe with. While it's admirable to want to help, he's not qualified to do so, unless he's a licensed therapist.

She is no longer his employee, why does he feel responsible for her? Why does he make "jokes" that he wishes she were his wife? Why is he so understanding about your lack of desire? I don't like what you've laid out, and caution you to nip things in the bud now, and stop being afraid of confrontation.

Hi TXTrini, it’s really nice to hear from someone who can relate to my experience with an adoptive hometown. Thanks for your post. I’m warned and will be cautious without being paranoid. I’m sure her name will be mentioned soon enough. Yesterday, I was extremely sad because of an argument we had, and out of frustration I told him it would probably be better if I walked away and let her live with them. He said “Oh not this again…” I think by now he must have some clue that I’m not so thrilled about her becoming a part of our family. She has other friends and own family. If he does not get it, I will let him know as diplomatic as possible.

My H is not okay with our lack of intimacy, neither am I, but we just haven’t given ourselves enough time or effort to resolve the issue. We just need to be brave and face the issue together.

 

[Hotaru]

I have to get some work done, and I need to digest the advices above, so I will be back. Thanks!