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So we're back with a new MC. She's very different from whom we saw last time. She actually believes in full disclosure. She made me really think the other day, though...

My WS kept his ONS secret from me for eight years. I still believe there is more. I originally got some info after threatening a poly. Then a year later got even more with another threat of a poly. I went ahead with the poly and he failed miserably. He leaked a little more after, but not enough to explain the failed questions. He still maintains the basic story, but now I have a few more details. The details were important parts to the puzzle, not small.

I could go into specifics here with clues I've picked up thru this terrible journey, but let's just say I feel pretty confident there were other girls and transgressions. And that the ONS happened more than once.

So anyway, our new MC says we can't go into questions now because we first have to stop the damage we've been doing, basically all the fighting. So when I approach him now my requests are not to be for answers, but for compassion. One thing she did say to me is that I'm in a situation where even if he was telling me the truth when will I ever feel like there isn't more?

Obviously he's still lying. I know that from the clues, failed poly and HPV I got. But, it made me think... He's lied so much, really even if he did give me everything would I feel any closure or will I still doubt for the rest of my life?

I think I will and that was a very sad realization on my part. I'm not confident I will ever trust him again and how can I love him with no trust?

It's all very sad. He's being extremely transparent right now, I've got everything in the now. He's gone thru his FB with me, sent me pics of his coworkers I didn't know, we went thru his phone contacts the other day... He's trying in that aspect.

Why do you think he holds onto his secrets? I dunno... I'm trying to do what our MC is telling me to do, that my approach has gotten me nowhere. I just feel like I will never know love again. :(
 

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I am in the exact same place. No real solution. I chose to stay for the kids. Not sure that is the right thing to do. She is very nice now and trying so that helps, but I don't trust her at all and firmly believe there is more I don't know.

Who knows where this goes?
 

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Wow that has to be tough to be dealing with. I think that it is a good thing that here in the now he is giving you full transparency with coworkers and face book.
I wish I could answer your questions but I am in a similar boat.
Keep trying what your counselor is having you do.I believe the reasons that WS keep secrets very and are for selfish reasons. I sometimes wish I did not know as much as I do and I always feel like there is more I have not been told.
 

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I am in the exact same place. No real solution. I chose to stay for the kids. Not sure that is the right thing to do. She is very nice now and trying so that helps, but I don't trust her at all and firmly believe there is more I don't know.

Who knows where this goes?
Exactly. I'm staying for the kids.
But, really... After the lies? How do any of us really know anymore?

I mean I got the failed poly, but he still holds his original story. Like what am I now supposed to do?

And even the MC tells me even if he did give me more, would I ever feel there isn't still more?

What a terrible place they have put us in. It's like a state of limbo for life.

He says he's been punished enough! So when does my punishment for his crime end? Never. I get the gift of doubt for life.
 

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Wow that has to be tough to be dealing with. I think that it is a good thing that here in the now he is giving you full transparency with coworkers and face book.
I wish I could answer your questions but I am in a similar boat.
Keep trying what your counselor is having you do.I believe the reasons that WS keep secrets very and are for selfish reasons. I sometimes wish I did not know as much as I do and I always feel like there is more I have not been told.
Even though what I know has just about killed me, if I could go back I would still want to know. That's what drives me crazy, wanting to know what he did behind my back in our marriage.

I believe he's not telling me cause he doesn't want me to know exactly how bad he really was. That's all I can guess at this point. Or he doesn't want to have to deal with the fallout of more info being put out there. I mean after this nightmare, why not just get it all out?!?
 

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You don't trust each other. He doesn't trust you enough to tell you the truth. You don't trust his core values. Not at all.

Love can't exist in that environment.
 

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Hurting- you post has come at the right time for me...I too am struggling with MC as we seem to be stagnant....our issue is that my spouse wants to focus on "marriage counseling" and not do any individual counseling- to fix his internal problems. In my opinion this is a attempt to avoid personal responsibility for his EA and has said he knows he is "broken" but doesn't want to work on internal issues, he just wants to be close to me"-- well where do we go from here?


In your case you spouse seems similar.

Even though what I know has just about killed me, if I could go back I would still want to know. That's what drives me crazy, wanting to know what he did behind my back in our marriage. <---- He doesn't want to go there because once he approaches that black hole of "why he did it" he will uncover all kinds of inner demons. Where does it stop? He is afraid to admit to himself that he has a lot of work to do to fix this and fix himself.

I believe he's not telling me cause he doesn't want me to know exactly how bad he really was. <<< Right on the money there. If he recognizes the problem then he has to find a fix and he doesn't want to do the hard work right now. He's just trying to weather the storm.

That's all I can guess at this point. Or he doesn't want to have to deal with the fallout of more info being put out there. I mean after this nightmare, why not just get it all out?!?

The short answer, "shame"--- being reminded of his failure, his deception, the pain he caused you.....can feel overwhelming. Your MC was correct in saying, "lets stop the bleeding then asses the wound depth" but you want answers now because you've been suffering for months. It also probably feels like he is getting pampered and comforted while you are still struggling with questions and anger mixed with resentment. We've all been there.


Not only do we get the "gift of doubt" but we worry that it could happen again....because until they really explore their reasons while they said yes to crossing boundaries and having a affair....they could repeat it.
 

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Even though what I know has just about killed me, if I could go back I would still want to know. That's what drives me crazy, wanting to know what he did behind my back in our marriage.

I believe he's not telling me cause he doesn't want me to know exactly how bad he really was. That's all I can guess at this point. Or he doesn't want to have to deal with the fallout of more info being put out there. I mean after this nightmare, why not just get it all out?!?
Probably because he wants to be done with it. Think about it why would he want to add fuel to the fire that he is trying to get out of?

I think all BS want to know everything and even if we did we would still wonder if there is more because everything we thought we knew was blown apart by our spouse.

Are you in IC? I decided a while back to stop being on repeat with that horrible time in my life and chose to heal (working at it still but getting better) rather then continue to suffer from it, I was literally getting sick of my self so I had to do something different to get different results.

You should take care of your self, make sure you have a life out side all the hell that you are in right now. I would keep doing MC and trying if you are really going to stay for the kids. No reason to show them by example what a marriage is like and have that example be a bad one because they will take there learned behaviors into their adult hood and think it is the way of it.
 

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Hurting- you post has come at the right time for me...I too am struggling with MC as we seem to be stagnant....our issue is that my spouse wants to focus on "marriage counseling" and not do any individual counseling- to fix his internal problems. In my opinion this is a attempt to avoid personal responsibility for his EA and has said he knows he is "broken" but doesn't want to work on internal issues, he just wants to be close to me"-- well where do we go from here?


In your case you spouse seems similar.

Even though what I know has just about killed me, if I could go back I would still want to know. That's what drives me crazy, wanting to know what he did behind my back in our marriage. <---- He doesn't want to go there because once he approaches that black hole of "why he did it" he will uncover all kinds of inner demons. Where does it stop? He is afraid to admit to himself that he has a lot of work to do to fix this and fix himself.

I believe he's not telling me cause he doesn't want me to know exactly how bad he really was. <<< Right on the money there. If he recognizes the problem then he has to find a fix and he doesn't want to do the hard work right now. He's just trying to weather the storm.

That's all I can guess at this point. Or he doesn't want to have to deal with the fallout of more info being put out there. I mean after this nightmare, why not just get it all out?!?

The short answer, "shame"--- being reminded of his failure, his deception, the pain he caused you.....can feel overwhelming. Your MC was correct in saying, "lets stop the bleeding then asses the wound depth" but you want answers now because you've been suffering for months. It also probably feels like he is getting pampered and comforted while you are still struggling with questions and anger mixed with resentment. We've all been there.


Not only do we get the "gift of doubt" but we worry that it could happen again....because until they really explore their reasons while they said yes to crossing boundaries and having a affair....they could repeat it.
Very well said!:iagree:
 

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We never really knew. I think trust comes from love not love from trust. You obviously love him, and you obviously cannot trust him.

We learn to love someone, and we give them more and more trust over time because we love them and because they've earned that trust. When you find out the trust was destroyed you feel personally destroyed and humiliated.

I don't think you have to worry about never finding love again. You must truly love him. The real issue is will you ever find trust again. The answer to that is up to him. Even if he does everything right from now on it will never be the same. The hope is that he builds a level of trust you can live with.

Then again the reason we are all here is we trusted too much. If I hadn't given unconditional trust I would never have been betrayed like I was.

Their problem was being responsible with the trust they were given.
Our problem was giving to much trust. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
 

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I'm not confident I will ever trust him again and how can I love him with no trust?
This is where I compartmentalize. It isn’t that there is no trust, it is that you are applying it to everything. Do you trust him around the kids? How about finances? How about “this” or “that”? If you are like me, you can break it down into specific situations where I will feel my wife would default to lying. For me, one of them is; If she believes I’d get upset by it (conflict avoidance issues).... So that is specifically the area we focus on. She works on telling me things that might upset me and I work on my reactions not going overboard.

By doing this compartmentalizing, you can love because for the most part, you do trust him to watch out for the family in a lot of ways. You just don’t trust certain things and should be wary.
 

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Exactly. I'm staying for the kids.
But, really... After the lies? How do any of us really know anymore?

I mean I got the failed poly, but he still holds his original story. Like what am I now supposed to do?

And even the MC tells me even if he did give me more, would I ever feel there isn't still more?

What a terrible place they have put us in. It's like a state of limbo for life.

He says he's been punished enough! So when does my punishment for his crime end? Never. I get the gift of doubt for life.
That statement says a lot to me. It is a very selfish statement and, to me, seems like he is not remorseful. It sounds like he cares more about his feelings than yours.
 

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I also tend to think that we the BS continue exploring the affair because we know on a cellular level that they are ignoring the work that needs to be done on a individual basis. Which affects us as well, because when you feel that they are not helping to solve the problem....then what is the point?

I don't think there is a person in the world who wants to be in a stagnant relationship where there is never any growth, on a personal level and a relationship level. If that were the case we would all still be living at home with our parents on shag green carpet watching reruns of Happy Days.

It's about moving forward and trying to find enlightenment.
 

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Hurtingbadly you are in similar position to my W.

I have had 3 ONS in last 7 years and over last 14 months have given full disclosure in detail which was and is very hard for both of us. it took me to be on the verge of poly to fully trust myself to tell W of 2 ONS that she did not know about. I had been in False R for a year trying and failing to convince her there was no more, she obviosuly didnt believe me as gut instinct told her there was more and it was right. I would happily sit a poly tomorrow and told her this that i will book myself whenever she wants me too.

my problem is now she believes there may be more and honestly there isnt but i have damaged the trust by between us so badly that she questions everything and has a right too. With all the details i have told her there would be nothing i now could not tell her. The pain in her eyes when me or her have trigger points kills me, I'm spending more and more time feeling depressed over what i have done to our marriage. Recently went away for an anniversary weekend which was wonderful however on final day i started going queit and within myself, a post on this website triggered off my guilt and shame feelings which i know she picked up on and then this set W off on trigger points, suffice to say the whole trip driving home was a very quiet one with me crying inside/outside whislt driving and W very upset in seat next to me. When i look back (Minus the mind drugs which i havent used since dday 1 14 months ago, glad i got that demon off my back) i hate the person that allowed himself to get into these situations with OW who really are a very big trade down from my W.

Its hard to find the words sometimes when trigger points happen as 'I'm sorry' doesnt express deeply enough to my W or myself the Remorse/Shame/Guilt/Hatred against myself of what i feel. but how to make her understand ? words never seem enough and i have never been really good at them.

We are off to London soon for a concert which i was given tickets too today and W has agreed to go with me even though this is the scene of my last ONS nearly 2 years ago, she has previously said that she never wanted to go there. Think that this trip will trigger off lots of discussions between us and hopefully we can talk them through and remove the issue of this place from our relationship.

I love my W and family dearly but at the same time really hate myself for what i have done, Most times i just want to curl up in a dark room as i am sure she does too.

I am getting more confident that we can work through this and know that our marriage may still not work but it wont be for lack of trying on both our parts now.

I know that even the hint of any discretion or non-disclosure would resort in me leaving / forced to leave the marriage as there would be no point in continuing a lie, I lived with my lies for far too long and seeing how it has hurt someone who i care about and love deeply , I never want to hurt her again and dont ever want too.

I want to find the words that will convince my wife what i say are true but know no words will ever be enough its what i do , how i act and be completely honest with her that will get us thorugh this.

(Sorry just realised i may have robbed your thread)

However think the point i am trying to make is that you need the truth from him, show him these threads and words and explain yes it is hard, very very very hard to sit and look in a loved ones eyes and give them every detail of how you have betrayed them, but once its done there is a certain weight that lifts from your shoulders, it doesnt make you feel nice or relieved and there are many times i have thought i shouldnt have told her i should have kept it a secret and she would not be hurting like this, but then i would have been forcing her to live a lie, I know now we should not force people to live lies on our behalf because we dont have the balls to face up to our failings, I have many failings but hopefully from now i will always be able to discuss them.

Been to IC via MC and can see the benefits of them but after couple of sessions realised me and my W were doing this ourselves over lots of cigarettes, lots of bottles of wine and a hell of alot of tears, She is the one who got me to understand where i had gone wrong and that i should have put more into our marriage if i wanted to change it. I believe we have changed it together and pray daily that we will get through this.

wish you all luck in your relationship / marriage and hopefully the pain for all of us will ease with time x
 

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I don't understand. There is no trust in your marriage, clearly. And he surely does not respect you because he is blatantly lying.

Will you be able to trust this man?! Please tell me why you are even with him!
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Man, this is gonna sound crazy. From what I have read on hear, love is an action word. Therefore, you do not need to trust to love. You just do the things which you know show it.

I'm not telling you to go back to him or anything, just commenting on how someone can love and not have trust. I don't know how anyone can trust after what you have been through. I don't think we can trust anyone, at anytime, for anything. We just show the outward signs of it when we want or need something. That is how I have come to understand it through reading much on here.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
That statement says a lot to me. It is a very selfish statement and, to me, seems like he is not remorseful. It sounds like he cares more about his feelings than yours.
Oh, he's definitely selfish. He'll even admit to that. He admits he was selfish when he cheated and he was selfish for keeping it a secret, because he wanted to avoid all this. That was his actual words. So I'm only to assume he continues to be selfish by keeping more secrets cause he doesn't want to face the result. He is back being extremely depressed again, too.
 

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I don't understand. There is no trust in your marriage, clearly. And he surely does not respect you because he is blatantly lying.

Will you be able to trust this man?! Please tell me why you are even with him!
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The kids mostly. My oldest has worked really hard to get into the school she is at. If I divorce I know I'll have to move us to my parents which is over an hour away with no traffic. I have had consult and really it was rather bleak. I've been a SAHM for many years and this past year have started sending out resumes, it hasn't produced much of anything. I kinda feel stuck and trapped. And I would be lying if I said I had zero feelings for him, we've been together over twenty years. He's like my family. Bad family, though! We did try a trial separation, I saw him constantly at this or that cause of our kids. It was just a sad realization there is really no escape.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hurtingbadly you are in similar position to my W.

I have had 3 ONS in last 7 years and over last 14 months have given full disclosure in detail which was and is very hard for both of us. it took me to be on the verge of poly to fully trust myself to tell W of 2 ONS that she did not know about. I had been in False R for a year trying and failing to convince her there was no more, she obviosuly didnt believe me as gut instinct told her there was more and it was right. I would happily sit a poly tomorrow and told her this that i will book myself whenever she wants me too.

my problem is now she believes there may be more and honestly there isnt but i have damaged the trust by between us so badly that she questions everything and has a right too. With all the details i have told her there would be nothing i now could not tell her. The pain in her eyes when me or her have trigger points kills me, I'm spending more and more time feeling depressed over what i have done to our marriage. Recently went away for an anniversary weekend which was wonderful however on final day i started going queit and within myself, a post on this website triggered off my guilt and shame feelings which i know she picked up on and then this set W off on trigger points, suffice to say the whole trip driving home was a very quiet one with me crying inside/outside whislt driving and W very upset in seat next to me. When i look back (Minus the mind drugs which i havent used since dday 1 14 months ago, glad i got that demon off my back) i hate the person that allowed himself to get into these situations with OW who really are a very big trade down from my W.

Its hard to find the words sometimes when trigger points happen as 'I'm sorry' doesnt express deeply enough to my W or myself the Remorse/Shame/Guilt/Hatred against myself of what i feel. but how to make her understand ? words never seem enough and i have never been really good at them.

We are off to London soon for a concert which i was given tickets too today and W has agreed to go with me even though this is the scene of my last ONS nearly 2 years ago, she has previously said that she never wanted to go there. Think that this trip will trigger off lots of discussions between us and hopefully we can talk them through and remove the issue of this place from our relationship.

I love my W and family dearly but at the same time really hate myself for what i have done, Most times i just want to curl up in a dark room as i am sure she does too.

I am getting more confident that we can work through this and know that our marriage may still not work but it wont be for lack of trying on both our parts now.

I know that even the hint of any discretion or non-disclosure would resort in me leaving / forced to leave the marriage as there would be no point in continuing a lie, I lived with my lies for far too long and seeing how it has hurt someone who i care about and love deeply , I never want to hurt her again and dont ever want too.

I want to find the words that will convince my wife what i say are true but know no words will ever be enough its what i do , how i act and be completely honest with her that will get us thorugh this.

(Sorry just realised i may have robbed your thread)

However think the point i am trying to make is that you need the truth from him, show him these threads and words and explain yes it is hard, very very very hard to sit and look in a loved ones eyes and give them every detail of how you have betrayed them, but once its done there is a certain weight that lifts from your shoulders, it doesnt make you feel nice or relieved and there are many times i have thought i shouldnt have told her i should have kept it a secret and she would not be hurting like this, but then i would have been forcing her to live a lie, I know now we should not force people to live lies on our behalf because we dont have the balls to face up to our failings, I have many failings but hopefully from now i will always be able to discuss them.

Been to IC via MC and can see the benefits of them but after couple of sessions realised me and my W were doing this ourselves over lots of cigarettes, lots of bottles of wine and a hell of alot of tears, She is the one who got me to understand where i had gone wrong and that i should have put more into our marriage if i wanted to change it. I believe we have changed it together and pray daily that we will get through this.

wish you all luck in your relationship / marriage and hopefully the pain for all of us will ease with time x
Thank you. I wish my WS would come to realize these things. Wish you luck in your marriage as well, I've read your wife's story and I understand her pain. :(
 

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So we're back with a new MC. She's very different from whom we saw last time. She actually believes in full disclosure. She made me really think the other day, though...

My WS kept his ONS secret from me for eight years. I still believe there is more. I originally got some info after threatening a poly. Then a year later got even more with another threat of a poly. I went ahead with the poly and he failed miserably. He leaked a little more after, but not enough to explain the failed questions. He still maintains the basic story, but now I have a few more details. The details were important parts to the puzzle, not small.

I could go into specifics here with clues I've picked up thru this terrible journey, but let's just say I feel pretty confident there were other girls and transgressions. And that the ONS happened more than once.

So anyway, our new MC says we can't go into questions now because we first have to stop the damage we've been doing, basically all the fighting. So when I approach him now my requests are not to be for answers, but for compassion. One thing she did say to me is that I'm in a situation where even if he was telling me the truth when will I ever feel like there isn't more?

Obviously he's still lying. I know that from the clues, failed poly and HPV I got. But, it made me think... He's lied so much, really even if he did give me everything would I feel any closure or will I still doubt for the rest of my life?

I think I will and that was a very sad realization on my part. I'm not confident I will ever trust him again and how can I love him with no trust?

It's all very sad. He's being extremely transparent right now, I've got everything in the now. He's gone thru his FB with me, sent me pics of his coworkers I didn't know, we went thru his phone contacts the other day... He's trying in that aspect.

Why do you think he holds onto his secrets? I dunno... I'm trying to do what our MC is telling me to do, that my approach has gotten me nowhere. I just feel like I will never know love again. :(

You know that we are walking a similar path....and i hope you know that i can completely understand where you are right now....I spent a whole year knowing my H had cheated, and knowing he hadn't told me everything. (see megmg post)

It is soul destroying, its like cancer eating away at you, it makes you feel crazy and paranoid......but I personally believe we all can trust our gut instinct. Mine told me my H had more to disclose and i wasn't wrong.

I looked back at some of our emails yesterday, just beginning of September (so one full year to the day of his first admission) I asked him again, is there anything more to tell me? "Did anything happen in London? " His words were "if there was anything to tell you about London then i would believe me i would, its like a vice around my head, when there was nothing. I was guilty of betraying you and you know the truth of that"

It kills me that he was still hiding this a year on. If the poly hadn't made him talk then we'd still be in false reconciliation....and as he says himself....i still have big doubts a lot of the time because he continued to lie when he'd said cards were on the table.

So you need to know the truth, your H has to come clean, whatever it takes, i don't know what else you can do to make him tell you. Maybe if you simply tell him you have tried and tried and tried and it isn't working. Tell him you feel it is all pointless to carry on when you feel he is still holding something back from you.

I guess you have told him he can trust you with anything he admits, that it will be hard to deal with but ultimately better than the lies. Tell him that this is the only possible way for you to save your marriage now.....that he grows a pair of balls and tells you what you need to hear. If he wont, then tell him to leave. What choice have you got? I think this is the only way you are going to get the truth. He might only leave for a day and come back with the truth. it might take a week...but i bet my life he'll be back with more.

Another thing.......do you know anyone he cheated with..their names, where they work? Can you contact them....or anyone you suspect he might have cheated with? Maybe you can email them and tell them you know they cheated with your H, say he's confessed.....lie to them..... and say you want the full story off them or you will squeal to their Partner / H.

The first ONS i found out about i read an email from Feb 2009, a colleague offering my H a NSABJ (nice!) He denied anything happened, called her a stalker, and he was quite believable i might add. But my gut told me otherwise....I contacted her with a fake email and pretended to be my H. I asked did she want to meet up again...and before you know it, i have everything i need. It's maybe worth a shot! She squealed like a pig when i told her that i had her fiance's name and her address.

You cant carry on like this, and you cant be in a marriage where you feel trapped, for the kids, for the house, for financial security. I have felt this too, but it would only be a matter of time before I would make him walk if he hadn't confessed the rest, and he knows, as much as I love him, i would divorce if i found out anything else that he hadn't disclosed to me himself.

There is always another way, maybe not what you would choose, but this is going to make you ill if you don't get the truth soon.

James Morrison sings "the truth hurts, the lies are worse" so very true!
 
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