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Discussion Starter #141
Yeah you’ve called it, this would be her half-assing it all the way. I do agree that if you were actually going to work on this, you would have to give up your friend. Inappropriate, 100%. But your wife wouldn’t hold up her end for more than about six weeks, if that. And she would keep adding conditions.


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I completely agree, I would not try to actively work it out with her and keep my female friend on the "side" or backup. I like her too much ... Besides the fact that it's a really wrong thing to do.
 

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Discussion Starter #142
You need to define, and put on paper, what a success at working things out looks like. A roadmap that says at this date, x. By this date, y. No relapses. If you want to go that way.
Before I said I wanted a divorce in March, there was an idea floated about a 90day let's get it together plan etc. After 1 week that feel apart. So the date driven model may not work either.

Plus it feels crummy to be with someone who you finally "convinced" to do it and be open and have sex more etc.
 

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Duty sex twice a month? I think she’d do it to keep the marriage, but who wants duty sex?

you’ve put yourself in a tough spot, and your wife as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #144
Duty sex twice a month? I think she’d do it to keep the marriage, but who wants duty sex?

you’ve put yourself in a tough spot, and your wife as well.
I don't want duty sex, we were kind of there before a bit anyway at once a month. I did tell her I wanted a divorce and had a plan written on how to divide things up. That never went anywhere despite 4 versions that I wrote up and asked her to read and mark up/etc.

I agree, things are a little stickier now..
Which wasn't my goal at all...
 

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Discussion Starter #146
Just divorce already..............................................

:p
I thought we could have had a legal separation signed by now..nope...so this is going to take unnecessary time and emotional pain. Yuck
 

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Discussion Starter #147
Things are moving ahead, slowly.... I've written a $7500 check to her lawyer so we can at least get a conversation on the "separation agreement" moving ahead.
She is planning on moving into a house that her friends owns (for rent - not with the friend) in the next week or so.
The second home that we own is also closing for sale on July 15. I told her all of the proceeds from that (should be about $75k) that she can just keep, I don't want it.

I was texting her a bit the other day on some items with kids and asked her a bit about the talks she was having with her therapist. The therapist is the same one that we used for about 2 years in couples consoling.

I had asked her if I can stop down and talk to her.
She didn't reply because she was out with friends.
I sent her this message in the morning at one point.
Her reply....though. I don't know if I should feel hurt, or vindicated, or angry, or sad for her? What a stew of emotions there.
How do I interpret her reply? She feels its easier to talk to her good friends (who she rarely has seen until recently. I know this because I kept asking every few months: how is so-and-so, when can we all goto dinner or out together/etc/etc). So she feels able to be vulnerable(?) with her "good friends" but not with me, spouse for ~21 years, known her for about 25yrs, trying to actively engage in couples therapy and I improved so much that even my kids commented on how "easier I was at home and less stressed I appeared to be".

What planet am I on?


69886
 

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Things are moving ahead, slowly.... I've written a $7500 check to her lawyer so we can at least get a conversation on the "separation agreement" moving ahead.
She is planning on moving into a house that her friends owns (for rent - not with the friend) in the next week or so.
The second home that we own is also closing for sale on July 15. I told her all of the proceeds from that (should be about $75k) that she can just keep, I don't want it.

I was texting her a bit the other day on some items with kids and asked her a bit about the talks she was having with her therapist. The therapist is the same one that we used for about 2 years in couples consoling.

I had asked her if I can stop down and talk to her.
She didn't reply because she was out with friends.
I sent her this message in the morning at one point.
Her reply....though. I don't know if I should feel hurt, or vindicated, or angry, or sad for her? What a stew of emotions there.
How do I interpret her reply? She feels its easier to talk to her good friends (who she rarely has seen until recently. I know this because I kept asking every few months: how is so-and-so, when can we all goto dinner or out together/etc/etc). So she feels able to be vulnerable(?) with her "good friends" but not with me, spouse for ~21 years, known her for about 25yrs, trying to actively engage in couples therapy and I improved so much that even my kids commented on how "easier I was at home and less stressed I appeared to be".

What planet am I on?


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It looks like she's found a way to comfortably move on, rationalizing everything in a way that really doesn't include you. She's now re-writing the past as part of that. I wouldn't spend much time from here on, doing anything in a way that makes things easier on her feelings. You need to have a functional relationship with her regarding the kids, and... that's about it. Trying for anything more is going to chew you up. It's really hard to read this stuff.
 

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Not sure why you are taking this butt kissy approach, you are divorcing her. Let it go. The sooner you let go, the sooner you move forward to better things for yourself.


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Discussion Starter #150
I've been moving things in the house, furniture and pictures and such. Remembering good and bad things that have happened over 20yrs. It's just a weird mix of frustration and sad.

In that message "I need more support than most"

Ok...that's part of why I wanted to do therapy for 2+years. She was unwilling/unable to be vulnerable/open in therapy? What chance did I actually have at fixing things and making things really better...I feel foolish to say the least
 

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In that message "I need more support than most"

Ok...that's part of why I wanted to do therapy for 2+years. She was unwilling/unable to be vulnerable/open in therapy? What chance did I actually have at fixing things and making things really better...I feel foolish to say the least
Listen, I think I have said this before, and you seem like an intelligent guy...

1) She has never ever, ever, ever been sexually attracted to you in any way, ever.
2) It is a complete mystery why you have stayed in this sexless, loveless marriage.
3) You have value as a human being, and she never has thought that once.

For the love of everything holy, DETACH FROM HER. Start dating sooner rather than later.

I don't know which therapist you are using if you are, but I think you need a change. I don't know if they are a bad therapist or if you are not able to be honest with them. But, you need to work on your self esteem some way some how.

Your wife never deserved you for a second. The sooner you realize this , the better off you will be...
 

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Discussion Starter #153
Listen, I think I have said this before, and you seem like an intelligent guy...

1) She has never ever, ever, ever been sexually attracted to you in any way, ever.
2) It is a complete mystery why you have stayed in this sexless, loveless marriage.
3) You have value as a human being, and she never has thought that once.

For the love of everything holy, DETACH FROM HER. Start dating sooner rather than later.

I don't know which therapist you are using if you are, but I think you need a change. I don't know if they are a bad therapist or if you are not able to be honest with them. But, you need to work on your self esteem some way some how.

Your wife never deserved you for a second. The sooner you realize this , the better off you will be...
Well I don't know entirely about 1 and 2, I wouldn't say I've had a loveless marriage or something...that's a bit harsh.

But the other points are valid. I'll feel better when the last couple pieces of her furniture that you want is out of the house that I am living in. I already have a couple replacement pieces on order that are different.

As far as dating, it's shocking a bit how completely different am I female friend and I are developing a relationship. She is quite different in a lot of ways, all which seemed very positive and a little shocking that someone can be that different
 

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Well I don't know entirely about 1 and 2, I wouldn't say I've had a loveless marriage or something...that's a bit harsh.

But the other points are valid. I'll feel better when the last couple pieces of her furniture that you want is out of the house that I am living in. I already have a couple replacement pieces on order that are different.

As far as dating, it's shocking a bit how completely different am I female friend and I are developing a relationship. She is quite different in a lot of ways, all which seemed very positive and a little shocking that someone can be that different
Look, maybe you are right.

But I want you to think about this, most of the time, if a woman does not want to have sex with you, well... She may not love you. Just saying. Yes you can come up with some outliers if you want to. But let's be real, it is what it is.

It is better that you grieve what really happened, it is better to believe and understand what really happened.

I don't say any of this to hurt you. But I say it in the hopes that you learn and grow, and understand what NOT to do.

I hope that you understand what type relationship to NOT STAY IN, and maybe have an idea of the ones to STAY in... in the future...

Just a tip, if the sex does not knock your socks off, then that would be one to NOT stay in

I hope you can see that...
 

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Discussion Starter #155
Look, maybe you are right.

But I want you to think about this, most of the time, if a woman does not want to have sex with you, well... She may not love you. Just saying. Yes you can come up with some outliers if you want to. But let's be real, it is what it is.

It is better that you grieve what really happened, it is better to believe and understand what really happened.

I don't say any of this to hurt you. But I say it in the hopes that you learn and grow, and understand what NOT to do.

I hope that you understand what type relationship to NOT STAY IN, and maybe have an idea of the ones to STAY in... in the future...

Just a tip, if the sex does not knock your socks off, then that would be one to NOT stay in

I hope you can see that...
Well the sex is certainly been the canary in the coal mine. My kids are 16 and another month, two years they're going off school or at least 18. There is a 0 way I could see myself in a sexless or pseudo sexless marriage for any point in time after the kids were 18. My plan just got accelerated a little bit that's all. This whole thing has been on my mind for quite a while, I tried a lot of different things in therapy there was some general success, but I am not interested in a routine relationship that doesn't involve sex at least a couple times a month. Twice a week but would be fantastic!
 

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Of course your gf is different. Hopefully, she’s very different. That’s not shocking at all. All women, thankfully, aren‘t like your wife. What’s shocking (to me) is that even recently you would have reconciled with your wife in a heartbeat if she would’ve cooperated just a little. I think you still really wish you could even though she’ll never be who you want her to be. I hope you’re getting better at moving forward and not looking in the rear view mirror so often.
 

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Discussion Starter #157
Of course your gf is different. Hopefully, she’s very different. That’s not shocking at all. All women, thankfully, aren‘t like your wife. What’s shocking (to me) is that even recently you would have reconciled with your wife in a heartbeat if she would’ve cooperated just a little. I think you still really wish you could even though she’ll never be who you want her to be. I hope you’re getting better at moving forward and not looking in the rear view mirror so often.
Well...my "hobby" is racing cars. I have a couple cars that use for competitive road racing (Watkins Glen, Sebring , etc)

Anyway, from the movie the gumball rally "the first rule of Italian driving, what's behind you is not important"

I should keep that in mind ;)
 

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Well the sex is certainly been the canary in the coal mine. My kids are 16 and another month, two years they're going off school or at least 18. There is a 0 way I could see myself in a sexless or pseudo sexless marriage for any point in time after the kids were 18. My plan just got accelerated a little bit that's all. This whole thing has been on my mind for quite a while, I tried a lot of different things in therapy there was some general success, but I am not interested in a routine relationship that doesn't involve sex at least a couple times a month. Twice a week but would be fantastic!
I guess you may be the most conflict avoidant person in the world.

Nothing wrong with this post, but you don't address the real issue. She does not love you. And you don't want to see that.

Hey, lots of us have been there, I get that it hurts. But understand this, lying to yourself does not help you.

What difference does the kids ages have to do with anything, it is just another excuse, and it always has been.

Please, maybe you can work on not lying to yourself. I hope you don't think that is too harsh, like I said, I lied to myself about a lot of things, and I was not sexless, I was just stupid...
 
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