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The other thing here...she was at the house with me and the kids for a little bit between 5pm and 7pm.

So we went for a ride for takeout to get dinner.

On the ride, I had asked her more about the embarrassing remark. She said I focus too much on negativity most of the time.

She said I don't respect her interests.

For example, her parents 50th anniversary. I was late picking her and the kids up. We made it to the anniversary before most of everyone else and before her parents. She said that I'm not even remorseful and I tell her it's because I was leaving work or was tied up at work and was late.

She said on thanksgiving 2 years ago, I yelled at my daughter after dinner. Daughter was being brat, swearing about school stuff, so yes I told her to knock it off or shut up. That did stop everyone in their tracks and her parents were surprised and she thoughy i was out of line. I said, do we have to be cursing on thanksgiving about these school friends or drama? I then went to another room in the house to remove myself from the situation and not argue. She said tonight I was out of line and made a scene at her parents house. We did talk about it on the way home that night...she said we can't even go to Thanksgiving without a problem.

She says I focus on the negative because it's a good way to spin a humorous story. For example, I took us all to Grand Bahama last year. 5 days. The outbound flight sucked...up at 3am and I was wiped out for almost a day down there. So yes, I've recounted that story with, even as she says, humor spin but all I do is focus on the negative. I enjoyed the vacation and work was at lull so it was a great get away for me. Despite the 10k plus sticker tag (see there is my negativity?!)

I was actually telling a friend of mine about grand Bahama. The ocean was amazing, it looked as blue as Windex to the horizon...

She says that she feels that work is always a higher priority than her. She said she still feels that way, even though over the last 6 years I've dramatically slashed my hours at work. I used to work 55+ ... I barely work 30hrs a week now and the business is even more successful. Ive has some peak stuff going on over the last few months so I've had a few late nights (8pm) across the last 3 to 4 months.

Maybe I am a negative person?? I can't believe that... It's also sad for me that I don't get a backup from my wife when,the rare occasion, that I yell at my kids when they are stepping over the line.
Brother, listen... you can write about all this stuff. And you know, feel free, it may help you feel better to kind of journal it.

But it is not going to change anything. She is not into you now, if she ever was. Or she has a boyfriend or what ever.

Nothing is going to change. She is bringing up complete and total bullshit to justify her poor treatment of you.

The bad thing about his is, she does not just have the balls to say I want a divorce and I don't love you...

You are wasting your time trying to understand this stuff when the answer is in front of your face...
 

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Wow, she has store-housed a load of resentment. (I personally have seen a lot of women do that.) I'm wondering if, when she accuses you of something, you try to refute/justify what you feel is inaccurate and then she does not feel heard?

Just for the sake of trying something different, repeat back to her what she said to you without trying to refute. For example, "You think I value work over you. Tell me more." And so forth.. Do not offer any more of your POV--she will be waiting for and expecting it. This is called reflective listening--read about it. It will not be easy for you. Nor easy for her because she will be expecting the 'old' you and you have thrown her a curve.

DK how only child position affects her life--maybe you are insightful here.

BTW: Beware of falling for a divorcing friend before you are totally out of your marriage. You do not know what it is like to live with that woman, nor do you want to be called a cheater.
 

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Discussion Starter #103
Wow, she has store-housed a load of resentment. (I personally have seen a lot of women do that.) I'm wondering if, when she accuses you of something, you try to refute/justify what you feel is inaccurate and then she does not feel heard?

Just for the sake of trying something different, repeat back to her what she said to you without trying to refute. For example, "You think I value work over you. Tell me more." And so forth.. Do not offer any more of your POV--she will be waiting for and expecting it. This is called reflective listening--read about it. It will not be easy for you. Nor easy for her because she will be expecting the 'old' you and you have thrown her a curve.

DK how only child position affects her life--maybe you are insightful here.

BTW: Beware of falling for a divorcing friend before you are totally out of your marriage. You do not know what it is like to live with that woman, nor do you want to be called a cheater.

We both learned the idea of the "mirroring" to repeat back. I use that alot in business (to make sure that I understand what they are talking about - half the time when you repeat it back, they didn't understand what they mean). So I applied that here and there in our relationship - she didn't quite like it because it seemed forced/exaggerated when she used the mirror concept.

She has recently said the following (copying this from texts)
1) she doesn't feel I respected her enough to have a rational talk about sex
2) she feels she wasn't respected enough and I would rather "toss out" the whole relationship
3) she feels I have not been honest with my feelings (i.e. asking her to goto the gym - i should have detailed that it meant alot to me and I wanted to go so we can be together)
4) she says I was more affectionate to her over the last few weeks before I asked her for a divorce, so she is confused by that.

She also says we have both "slacked off" over the years on some relationship items.
 

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Discussion Starter #104
she also said she has only heard about what "she needs to do to fix and improve the relationship" and not anything about what "i need to do to fix and improve the relationship".
 

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she also said she has only heard about what "she needs to do to fix and improve the relationship" and not anything about what "i need to do to fix and improve the relationship".
Now did you file for divorce? Or not?

Do you honestly thing ANYTHING is going to change.

Why are you even listening to any of this? I mean are you some type of masochist or something. I mean no judgment if that is your bag I am just wondering????
 

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She has recently said the following (copying this from texts)
1) she doesn't feel I respected her enough to have a rational talk about sex
2) she feels she wasn't respected enough and I would rather "toss out" the whole relationship
3) she feels I have not been honest with my feelings (i.e. asking her to goto the gym - i should have detailed that it meant alot to me and I wanted to go so we can be together)
4) she says I was more affectionate to her over the last few weeks before I asked her for a divorce, so she is confused by that.

She also says we have both "slacked off" over the years on some relationship items.
All of this is her blame shifting, gaslighting, and holding out hoops for you to jump through. She threw in something about “both” of you so that it looks to you like she is owning a tiny piece of this crap.


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Discussion Starter #107
Now did you file for divorce? Or not?

Do you honestly thing ANYTHING is going to change.

Why are you even listening to any of this? I mean are you some type of masochist or something. I mean no judgment if that is your bag I am just wondering????
No...not a masochist :)
We have been talking through text which can be easier for her since she isn't on the spot to say something in the moment.

My lawyer has a separation paper in process...needs time to have that before divorce paper I suppose.
 

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Discussion Starter #108
Hi folks, some updates here.

I had two of my own draft of a separation agreements (reviewed by my lawyer) and showed them to her. She didn't respond to either and said that she wasnt interested yet. I had a postnuptial written (separation lite) and she said her attorney said no one needs a post nuptial.

She says she wants to fix the issues and doesn't want to be divorced.

Granted that is not a life goal of mine either!

We have spent a few nights together on and off talking about relationship and what each of us wants.

A few days ago, in the morning we fooled around a bit in bed and she actually gave me a bit of oral sex. That may have been the 4th time in 20+ years that such a thing happened.

She says she wants to be more assertive with her desires and says she did take things for granted in our relationship. She says she would be happy to go away on a few impromptu trips (I've been pushing for that!!) And she really likes sex and wants to share more of her thoughts in the moment. All sounds great I suppose.

In the mix here...my relationship that's been growing with my female friend. I really really like her and I'm aggrivated that now my wife seems to be so agreeable to the things I've wanted and ask for etc for years. Now that I am wanting to be with my female friend and spend more time etc with her ... My wife wants to turn over a new leaf!

I don't think my wife is ready to make a wholesale change in her behavior yet...but maybe over time? Most likely not....I'm worried that once the "danger" passes it would be so easy to revert to old ways.

The other wrinkle here is that my wife knows who my female friend is. She knows her previous to all of this. We have had some talks about her because she knows I had dinner with my friend a few days ago. I wasn't hiding it either but I sure wasn't bragging or trying to inflict hurt either.

Like I said, divorce isn't some life goal of mine. What if I tried again with my wife and wound back up in the same place again? I would miss out on a chance to be with my friend who I think is really a fantastic person, to say the least. I don't want to be divorced, I don't want to be in a sexless distant marriage, and I don't want to miss the chance to grow a full relationship with my female friend. What a choice :0
 

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Honestly, too little too late if you ask me.

You must know that she is not attracted to you sexually, you know that right. She is not into you anymore. She has not been for a while.

Why are you even trying is what I don't understand. She knows you have someone waiting in the wings, and she does not want to lose her lifestyle that YOU Provide. That is the only reason that you are seeing anything.

Why waste another 8 day much less years.

Move on...
 

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Discussion Starter #110
Honestly, too little too late if you ask me.

You must know that she is not attracted to you sexually, you know that right. She is not into you anymore. She has not been for a while.

Why are you even trying is what I don't understand. She knows you have someone waiting in the wings, and she does not want to lose her lifestyle that YOU Provide. That is the only reason that you are seeing anything.

Why waste another 8 day much less years.

Move on...
I think the combination of not wanting to lose the lifestyle and knowing that the home I'm living in hasn't fallen apart either ... Plus my female friend definitely has added pressure to this situation for her. She had scoffed about "who was going to keep the house clean?!" I bought a Roomba ! Which vacuums wood floors better than any human would :p
 

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I think the combination of not wanting to lose the lifestyle and knowing that the home I'm living in hasn't fallen apart either ... Plus my female friend definitely has added pressure to this situation for her. She had scoffed about "who was going to keep the house clean?!" I bought a Roomba ! Which vacuums wood floors better than any human would :p
I am going to try one more time because I don't think you are getting me...

Do you want to be with a woman that pretends to love you and pretends to want to screw you?

Or, do you want to be with someone that actually loves you and finds you sexually attractive and wants to **** you?

Because your wife will never be option two...
 

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Discussion Starter #112
I am going to try one more time because I don't think you are getting me...

Do you want to be with a woman that pretends to love you and pretends to want to screw you?

Or, do you want to be with someone that actually loves you and finds you sexually attractive and wants to **** you?

Because your wife will never be option two...

Well obviously #2 :p
 

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I can tell you from my own experience in a long marriage that temporary change is the easy part. Permanent change is another story. That requires a lot of effort and few people are willing to put in the work long-term. Right now your wife feels threatened and she’s trying to reel you back in. Whether she’s capable of real change is unknown at the moment. It happens but it’s not that common for someone to do a 180. You’ll have to decide if you’re willing to take the chance that she‘ll revert to her usual pattern as soon as you agree to try again.
 

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When you are counting sex by the times a month, and it’s basically always been this way.....
You and your wife are just living life trying to be comfortable. You sound like you have some drive to your personality. You’ve built a successful business, you want success in your relationship, too! You are still wanting to grow and make your life better.
i don’t even know what your wife wants, but clearly she doesn’t really want YOU. She may want your companionship, your Security you provide—- but wanting you romantically??? Nah, she doesn’t. Hasn’t ever, most likely. It’s not you, it’s her.
Suggestion: Divorce and see what it’s like to be loved.
 

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She's giving you just enough crumbs to question your own decisions, mate. No doubt you'll end up where you've been, and it probably won't even be all that long before that happens. Keep up on your plans to separate and move on. Nothing to see here.
 

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If you hadn't shown her papers and if she didn't think there was another woman waiting in the wings her lips would never have ventured south of the border. She's bothering because she knows you have one foot out the door and knows there is another woman who may be interested in you.That's all. When she feels secure again her behavior will revert.
 

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Discussion Starter #119
You need to be honest with your female friend that you are considering reconciling. She can then make the choice whether to continue seeing you.
My friend knows I've been talking to my wife. Reconcillation is a bit of a strong word but she is aware that this is difficult all around.
 

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Discussion Starter #120
She's giving you just enough crumbs to question your own decisions, mate. No doubt you'll end up where you've been, and it probably won't even be all that long before that happens. Keep up on your plans to separate and move on. Nothing to see here.
That's what I fear the most. I have no desire to be divorced etc....but I don't want to wind up in the same barren place and have to go through the same emotional pains again...while having burned a bridge with my female friend who I do really like
 
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