Hi
I'll try to provide a summary of the last ~8 years or so - looking for advice.
I have been married 22 years - got married at 23yrs old.
My wife and I have, over the last 8 years, really gotten into a loop of lacking intimacy and sex.
About 5 years ago, I had leaned too much on a woman that I knew for support and to get some of the emotional response I was looking for.
My wife found out of course and knew for months she said before asking me who this person was/etc/etc.
I told her the whole story. No physical affair but surely an emotional one.
About 6 months after that, I decided that the only reasons I was leaning on this lady was fear - fear of discussing the roadblocks in my marriage with my wife. I also had some borderline ED issues occuring at that time.
So I got myself a counselor, made a dedicated effort to get back to the gym to get in better shape, talked to my doctor for an anti-depressant, and talked to an endocrinologist for these ED type symptoms.
Around 2017 we stared couples counseling, at my request, because I was looking for more intimacy/sex/conversation in my marriage - not just single word type answers "oh that's fine / good / nothing much happened today / etc"
These simple replies were around long before I was leaning on this lady for emotional support.
One of the goals I wanted to achieve in counseling was to improve our sex life too. We were averaging about sex once every 3 months. In the start of our relationship too (I had very little self-confidence at the time) and there were 'rules' that were needed. When I would visit her, she would tell me that she "needs to warm up to me first now that I'm here". We didn't have alot of sex in the early part of our relationship. When we were married, there (for many years ~5 or so) was a "no touching rule" that when she got into bed I couldn't touch her for 20 minutes or so. I tried so many times. Even talking to her in text yesterday she said "you always tried back then"
Currently, our sex life has waxed and waned a bit. And has again been on the skids The last time we had sex was in November 2019 and I gave her oral, no intercourse/etc/etc. Even working up to me giving her oral was many years in the making, I wanted to do/try it and she was resistant. One of the things I had asked many times in therapy was for her to initiate sex a bit, just sometimes - let me know that she has desire for me. This happens rarely.
I had been incontact with a divorce lawyer of the last 2 years, and had not done that because I still thought there were things I could do to make her happy. More of simple touch/etc - things she asked for. I believed I was doing them - not out of force but because I enjoy them and she asked for them. For example, kiss in the morning in bed, before I goto work, I love you before I leave the house, text/snapchat during the day with simple messages or kissy faces. So I kept trying to see what I could do, based on what I heard, to be better for her. She also thinks I am way to assertive (I'm sicilian so there is that!) and she was right. I learned alot about how to modulate my voice to a lower softer tone, speak less forcefully, to try to better match what she perceived as non-confrontational. We talked about sex several times in counseling. I had said that we have alot to work on overall, sex is about 6 weeks...so lets not be greedy right now - if we can get to once a month that would be fantastic.
In feb 2020, I brought up again - why we haven't had sex. She said that she needs simple things like "a touch on the arm" or to sit a little closer on the couch. That's all she needs.
I was mad that she says its just these "little things" and I told her it seems like if they were so little, and I've been trying to improve our sex life and intimacy, that you would have mentioned it.
I told her, I thought I had been doing what you asked for. Being more attentive to kiss in the morning, always asking what i can do help with dinner, thanking her for some of things she does around the house, or a meal she makes/etc.
She also then told me that sex had become complex and awkward anyway. I asked her....we have been in therapy.... how long did you feel this way? I've been asking for more intimacy and sharing and knowing your feelings and it seems like you are still holding back critical things that could help us.
So I became increasingly frustrated, thinking back on therapy/etc and thought that enough is finally enough.
Two weeks ago, I said I think we should seperate. I gave her a divorce proposal based on what I had been advised by my lawyer as a starting point/etc.
We just had a conversation tonight where she said things like
Lets just forget the past, put a stake in the ground and move foward.
I thought you only wanted sex 1 time a month, I could probably have it many times a month
When you asked for more sharing - i thought you just meant about my day - that's all. (I specifically said even the therapist has been pushing for deeper feelings).
The conversation loop also becomes "Well if you wanted sex, you could have made the move". I then say "Yes you are definately right, but I have asked you to try a little for me. Reach out so I feel attractive/etc"
I also asked her, tonight "if she really wants sex multiple times a month, and she definately liked the oral from Novemember, why wouldn't you say it was great and I want it again - or anything at all?" Reply was "if you liked giving it to me, I could ask the same question"
I've said recently to her that I love her, and I want to be with her. But I need 100% of my wife. I don't want a glorified roommate.
I told her that I don't know to make any of these pieces fit. I am not sure that I can do a leap of faith, forget the past, and we will just start having more sex over time soon.
I also said that I am terrified about the person I may become over the next 2 to 3 years. I don't want to lean on another woman for emotional support. I don't want to become resentful (well I already am to a degree) and I don't want to become a score keeper. I said that it makes me feel bad about myself that you don't reach out for me. I also said it makes me feel bad that you still hide emotions/thoughts/etc from us - despite a few years of therapy.
She replied, well I am working on it. I am working on speaking up.
Other backround on this. We have two daughters who will be 16 soon.
During the last 20 years, I have built a very successfull business.
I bought us a very nice new home - which has actually accentuated (for me) the issues. Living in this beautiful new home with a wife who hides her emotions from me and this sex standoff makes me feel really bad about myself.
I had started a few years ago, selling off some of my prized tangible items (cars mostly)
I am 95% sure I am not attached to any of the physical things I own (well I do really like the new house!) so I am not worried about losing physical items or money. I can rebuild that eventually.
I am scared that if I do the leap-of-faith that we will still be back in the same boat.
Is this a lightbulb turning point for her? I don't know ....
In my brain - i think of course not. I've had a close friend say to me that I've done enough. I even asked her if she wanted an open relationship (maybe in 2017?) DId she have some sex fantasy or something that she wanted to live out and needed. I would support it - with a man a woman etc. I was grasping at straws there.
In my heart, I'd love to have a marriage that lasts forever.
But I can't do 10 years like we have been doing. I am not even sure I can do 2 without become a person I don't want to be.
What are the thoughts on this? I'd be really interested to ready any parallel stories or advice if someone has it.
Thanks!
I'll try to provide a summary of the last ~8 years or so - looking for advice.
I have been married 22 years - got married at 23yrs old.
My wife and I have, over the last 8 years, really gotten into a loop of lacking intimacy and sex.
About 5 years ago, I had leaned too much on a woman that I knew for support and to get some of the emotional response I was looking for.
My wife found out of course and knew for months she said before asking me who this person was/etc/etc.
I told her the whole story. No physical affair but surely an emotional one.
About 6 months after that, I decided that the only reasons I was leaning on this lady was fear - fear of discussing the roadblocks in my marriage with my wife. I also had some borderline ED issues occuring at that time.
So I got myself a counselor, made a dedicated effort to get back to the gym to get in better shape, talked to my doctor for an anti-depressant, and talked to an endocrinologist for these ED type symptoms.
Around 2017 we stared couples counseling, at my request, because I was looking for more intimacy/sex/conversation in my marriage - not just single word type answers "oh that's fine / good / nothing much happened today / etc"
These simple replies were around long before I was leaning on this lady for emotional support.
One of the goals I wanted to achieve in counseling was to improve our sex life too. We were averaging about sex once every 3 months. In the start of our relationship too (I had very little self-confidence at the time) and there were 'rules' that were needed. When I would visit her, she would tell me that she "needs to warm up to me first now that I'm here". We didn't have alot of sex in the early part of our relationship. When we were married, there (for many years ~5 or so) was a "no touching rule" that when she got into bed I couldn't touch her for 20 minutes or so. I tried so many times. Even talking to her in text yesterday she said "you always tried back then"
Currently, our sex life has waxed and waned a bit. And has again been on the skids The last time we had sex was in November 2019 and I gave her oral, no intercourse/etc/etc. Even working up to me giving her oral was many years in the making, I wanted to do/try it and she was resistant. One of the things I had asked many times in therapy was for her to initiate sex a bit, just sometimes - let me know that she has desire for me. This happens rarely.
I had been incontact with a divorce lawyer of the last 2 years, and had not done that because I still thought there were things I could do to make her happy. More of simple touch/etc - things she asked for. I believed I was doing them - not out of force but because I enjoy them and she asked for them. For example, kiss in the morning in bed, before I goto work, I love you before I leave the house, text/snapchat during the day with simple messages or kissy faces. So I kept trying to see what I could do, based on what I heard, to be better for her. She also thinks I am way to assertive (I'm sicilian so there is that!) and she was right. I learned alot about how to modulate my voice to a lower softer tone, speak less forcefully, to try to better match what she perceived as non-confrontational. We talked about sex several times in counseling. I had said that we have alot to work on overall, sex is about 6 weeks...so lets not be greedy right now - if we can get to once a month that would be fantastic.
In feb 2020, I brought up again - why we haven't had sex. She said that she needs simple things like "a touch on the arm" or to sit a little closer on the couch. That's all she needs.
I was mad that she says its just these "little things" and I told her it seems like if they were so little, and I've been trying to improve our sex life and intimacy, that you would have mentioned it.
I told her, I thought I had been doing what you asked for. Being more attentive to kiss in the morning, always asking what i can do help with dinner, thanking her for some of things she does around the house, or a meal she makes/etc.
She also then told me that sex had become complex and awkward anyway. I asked her....we have been in therapy.... how long did you feel this way? I've been asking for more intimacy and sharing and knowing your feelings and it seems like you are still holding back critical things that could help us.
So I became increasingly frustrated, thinking back on therapy/etc and thought that enough is finally enough.
Two weeks ago, I said I think we should seperate. I gave her a divorce proposal based on what I had been advised by my lawyer as a starting point/etc.
We just had a conversation tonight where she said things like
Lets just forget the past, put a stake in the ground and move foward.
I thought you only wanted sex 1 time a month, I could probably have it many times a month
When you asked for more sharing - i thought you just meant about my day - that's all. (I specifically said even the therapist has been pushing for deeper feelings).
The conversation loop also becomes "Well if you wanted sex, you could have made the move". I then say "Yes you are definately right, but I have asked you to try a little for me. Reach out so I feel attractive/etc"
I also asked her, tonight "if she really wants sex multiple times a month, and she definately liked the oral from Novemember, why wouldn't you say it was great and I want it again - or anything at all?" Reply was "if you liked giving it to me, I could ask the same question"
I've said recently to her that I love her, and I want to be with her. But I need 100% of my wife. I don't want a glorified roommate.
I told her that I don't know to make any of these pieces fit. I am not sure that I can do a leap of faith, forget the past, and we will just start having more sex over time soon.
I also said that I am terrified about the person I may become over the next 2 to 3 years. I don't want to lean on another woman for emotional support. I don't want to become resentful (well I already am to a degree) and I don't want to become a score keeper. I said that it makes me feel bad about myself that you don't reach out for me. I also said it makes me feel bad that you still hide emotions/thoughts/etc from us - despite a few years of therapy.
She replied, well I am working on it. I am working on speaking up.
Other backround on this. We have two daughters who will be 16 soon.
During the last 20 years, I have built a very successfull business.
I bought us a very nice new home - which has actually accentuated (for me) the issues. Living in this beautiful new home with a wife who hides her emotions from me and this sex standoff makes me feel really bad about myself.
I had started a few years ago, selling off some of my prized tangible items (cars mostly)
I am 95% sure I am not attached to any of the physical things I own (well I do really like the new house!) so I am not worried about losing physical items or money. I can rebuild that eventually.
I am scared that if I do the leap-of-faith that we will still be back in the same boat.
Is this a lightbulb turning point for her? I don't know ....
In my brain - i think of course not. I've had a close friend say to me that I've done enough. I even asked her if she wanted an open relationship (maybe in 2017?) DId she have some sex fantasy or something that she wanted to live out and needed. I would support it - with a man a woman etc. I was grasping at straws there.
In my heart, I'd love to have a marriage that lasts forever.
But I can't do 10 years like we have been doing. I am not even sure I can do 2 without become a person I don't want to be.
What are the thoughts on this? I'd be really interested to ready any parallel stories or advice if someone has it.
Thanks!