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Discussion Starter #422
4 years not five... but called it!
Yes you were close. Sorry there is no award for predicting me ending my marriage. I invested 20 years of being too NICE etc and worked on things for the last 4 years with some limited success. I realize the progress has been slow (and to some unacceptable) but - its my marriage and I am not throwing it away. I have decided that there will be NO MORE SEX until she meets me half way in terms of effort, creativity, participation etc..
 

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Good move! Thats showing her! ...........ugh

By the way you might want to try and keep to one or two threads, multiple threads all about the same subject gets confusing. Might be why no one reply to your latest "what can I do to get my wife to have sex with me" post.

Here is the bottom line. You want to keep your marriage, you love your wife. I can totally respect that.

I had a wife that cheated on me. I wanted nothing more than to be with her. Thankfully she didnt want to be with me. After the fog cleared (I would literally say over and over out lout. "She doesnt love you" "She doesnt love you" as I drove down he road, it was so hard for me to accept) I took action, I was divorced in less than 100 days (still thinking we would maybe reconcile) and hitting the pool, trying hard to start a new life. Thats me.

You have decided that you are willing to accept less than what you think is fair. Dude! live with it! Dont keep asking over and over "what can I do to improve, be a better lover" because you are not the problem, (well at least initially trend is not in your favor) she is. She is not changing. She is not changing. She is not changing.
 

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Discussion Starter #424
Good move! Thats showing her! ...........ugh

By the way you might want to try and keep to one or two threads, multiple threads all about the same subject gets confusing. Might be why no one reply to your latest "what can I do to get my wife to have sex with me" post.

Here is the bottom line. You want to keep your marriage, you love your wife. I can totally respect that.

I had a wife that cheated on me. I wanted nothing more than to be with her. Thankfully she didnt want to be with me. After the fog cleared (I would literally say over and over out lout. "She doesnt love you" "She doesnt love you" as I drove down he road, it was so hard for me to accept) I took action, I was divorced in less than 100 days (still thinking we would maybe reconcile) and hitting the pool, trying hard to start a new life. Thats me.

You have decided that you are willing to accept less than what you think is fair. Dude! live with it! Dont keep asking over and over "what can I do to improve, be a better lover" because you are not the problem, (well at least initially trend is not in your favor) she is. She is not changing. She is not changing. She is not changing.
@Hoosier this is my only thread. You have me mistaken with @Married_in_michigan but we are both in similar boats.
 

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I have decided that there will be NO MORE SEX until she meets me half way in terms of effort, creativity, participation etc..
I'm not quite sure that this strategy will lead to success. If she's apathetic about sex, I suspect she won't even notice or care about the lack of sex. In fact, I suspect she will be happy to not have the pressure anymore.

If you want your marriage to work, you have to come to terms with the reality of her sex drive. Realize that she will never be as sexual as you want her to be. It just doesn't seem like something she's interested in. Maybe if she had lots of sexual urges you could work with that, but it sounds like she doesn't have sexual urges anyway. I'm guessing she never masturbates, which should indicate how low her natural desire is. It would be like taking someone who thinks opera is boring and trying to get them to love it. Or even if it's something that she once enjoyed but no longer does--like playing with Barbies--and expecting her to once again enjoy it with the same passion. You might be setting yourself up to only be happy with a goal which is virtually impossible to achieve.

You need to figure out reasonable and realistic solutions to this situation. Either acknowledge the reality of her drive and figure out ways to make it work (e.g. enjoyable duty sex), or move on and find someone who you are better matched with. For how long you've been working at this and your ages, it's not really likely that you're going to see a huge turnaround.
 

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I'm not quite sure that this strategy will lead to success. If she's apathetic about sex, I suspect she won't even notice or care about the lack of sex. In fact, I suspect she will be happy to not have the pressure anymore.

If you want your marriage to work, you have to come to terms with the reality of her sex drive. Realize that she will never be as sexual as you want her to be. It just doesn't seem like something she's interested in. Maybe if she had lots of sexual urges you could work with that, but it sounds like she doesn't have sexual urges anyway. I'm guessing she never masturbates, which should indicate how low her natural desire is. It would be like taking someone who thinks opera is boring and trying to get them to love it. Or even if it's something that she once enjoyed but no longer does--like playing with Barbies--and expecting her to once again enjoy it with the same passion. You might be setting yourself up to only be happy with a goal which is virtually impossible to achieve.

You need to figure out reasonable and realistic solutions to this situation. Either acknowledge the reality of her drive and figure out ways to make it work (e.g. enjoyable duty sex), or move on and find someone who you are better matched with. For how long you've been working at this and your ages, it's not really likely that you're going to see a huge turnaround.
Wilson, that is kind of the point. OP just does not understand.

He has repeatedly been told that this is not going to change and he refuses to accept the truth.

You can only do so much for people over the internet. I suspect that if OP had Dr. Phil tell him to get a divorce and find someone else, the would argue that if he just does more dishes, cooked better, was a better husband, it will get better...
 

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Yes you were close. Sorry there is no award for predicting me ending my marriage. I invested 20 years of being too NICE etc and worked on things for the last 4 years with some limited success. I realize the progress has been slow (and to some unacceptable) but - its my marriage and I am not throwing it away. I have decided that there will be NO MORE SEX until she meets me half way in terms of effort, creativity, participation etc..
OP,

With your stated decision, you W just won totally and fully what she's been trying to intentionally accomplish for a long time.

The big win description, this was/is her goal, restated: No sex with you but keep you mentally and emotionally hooked so you continue to support her way of life.

You deserve to have a M where you have a sexually willing partner, and one that you don't continuously have to stress yourself out on how to start sex, much less the sex itself.

There's one out there for you. It's not abnormal or that hard for most married partners to have regular sex.

Its
Just
Not!!

I bet your W puts you last in many of her thoughts as she plans her day and if you think about it I bet you can see that in some of you two's other interactions.
 

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IME, “letting” frequency deteriorate, and especially consciously choosing to avoid sex, is a one way ticket to NewNormal, where sex and affection are not even expected, and where the distance felt by Her and I continues to only grow.

It’s not necessarily a bad thing. Might be helpful to you if you’re having a hard time seeing/accepting the degree of her disinterest and it’s persistence over time.

For me, abstinence is a coping and detachment strategy, as I wait out our children‘s final year or two in our home. Has been effective, detachment-wise, for myself (and, hadn’t thought about it, but for her in response too). Coping — depends on the day.

The more consistently I treat her as a roommate, the more clearly I see that is all she ever offered me freely, and all she ever wanted, for years.

There was a time a few years ago she got angry because I asserted that she had “friend zoned” me. (She denied it. Was uncomfortable seeing herself as someone that could do that to her husband.). Now, I’d have to guess she would quietly agree that’s where we are.

Point is, understand that IME letting the distance grow and frequency decline leads to having less and less to try to hold on to.
 

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Piece of Sky, Wow. You very clearly laid out what OP has to look forward to but it might be what he needs.
OP, I may have been to hasty citicizeing your choice, maybe you will observe and realize "The more consistently I treat her as a roommate, the more clearly I see that is all she ever offered me freely, and all she ever wanted, for years." your approach might work, clarity, one way or the other might happen, which would be great. Good Luck with that.

Piece of Sky. Staying for the kids is a tough call, and I think it is a majority of the time not the right call. Your case is your case. I'll support your choice. Sorry that you are stuck, but at least when you do leave, you should have all the "did I do the right thing" hammered out. Have fun! If she wants a roommate, ok, but do all the stuff you want to, especially with your kids, and make sure a number of times it is inconvienet for her and she is then no included. OP follow his lead!
 

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The reason I often suggest "no sex at all" to men in this position is precisely because it has a chance of changing their perspective. I don't suggest it in the hope that it will lead to more sex. It won't. But it might lead the sex starved husband to realize the actual relationship he is in, instead of the unrealistic one in his head while he is chasing for sex. Plus, in my experience, no sex at all is MUCH easier to endure than erratic infrequent sex. I want the guy to spend less time strategizing how to get some sex and more time focusing on what else he wants to do with his life. Once sex is totally off the table, every decision is not weighted down with worrying "how will this impact my chances to get some sex this week / month / year?"

For guys like me, who don't leave despite being knowingly neglected, taking sex off the table completely is one of the few ways to ease him into the idea of leaving. It clears his mind of the obsession with sex, and gives him space to think about what he really wants from life.
 

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Even though @Holdingontoit has a somewhat unique situation, he has a point, and I did it the exact opposite way to see my side of a hang up I had. I did a 7-Day Sex Challenge once, back in my 30's when we had 2 younger kids (early elementary and PS). The goal was to have sex every day, no excuses no matter what, for 7 days. I was stunned to realize that, even though I considered myself sexy and willing, almost every day that week I had thoughts like "Oh my God I wish I didn't have to do this" or "I am too tired to enjoy this" or "UGH another thing ToDo" It was shocking to have it so obvious in my face how I viewed sex so poorly and like it was just another chore! And seriously--compared to some of my girlfriends, I had a good attitude! LOL :oops:

This is a similar but almost exactly opposite concept. Right now, so much of OP's relationship time is made up of "When will I get sex?" and "What do I have to do to get sex?" and "Will I get sex this time?" and "Will she say yes if I do XYZ just right?" that maybe he can't see himself and where he's at. In other words, clearly he is determined to stay no matter what. He has stated he will have NO MORE SEX unless she meets him halfway with enthusiasm (or something to that effect)...so that means he's not having any more sex.

Well... what if that is just what he chooses to do? What if he weighs in the balance and says that to him, keeping the family together and being with this woman, even without any sex, is what he wants? Okay. If that is the choice, then just stop even trying for any sex AT ALL. Let it go. Be free of it. Enjoy all the coffee together, reading the paper, doing errands, puttering around the house, having friends over, and whatever... and just let go of the attempt to EVER HAVE SEX AGAIN. Maybe that will bring clarity, by laying down the obsession to try and get some. If you're not trying to get any, maybe you'll find you like every single other thing and you're willing to just be sexless. On the other hand, maybe you'll discover that every single other thing is also controlled by her and that's not acceptable to you, and you're not as willing as you thought to force the broken marriage to stay together.
 

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@Affaircare: yes, the LD partner deciding to have sex every day for 7/30/365 days is the same idea from the other direction of the HD saying no sex for 7/30/365 days/ forever (with this partner). It is to go in the opposite direction of your internal default. Shake things up and see if you view yourself and the relationship differently. If trying for more sex hasn't worked after repeated attempts, try insisting on less sex. If the issue is control rather than actual sexual desire (or lack of it), the partner who is used to being in control is going to have to react to a new paradigm. That reaction is often revealing.

We used to have a mod (maybe still here lurking?) who often described when his wife got tired of being pestered for sex so she pushed him to have sex several times a day and all night to show him what it is like to be pestered for sex when you don't want it. If pulling isn't working, stop trying to pull harder and learn to push. Or drop the rope.
 

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Discussion Starter #434
The reason I often suggest "no sex at all" to men in this position is precisely because it has a chance of changing their perspective. I don't suggest it in the hope that it will lead to more sex. It won't. But it might lead the sex starved husband to realize the actual relationship he is in, instead of the unrealistic one in his head while he is chasing for sex. Plus, in my experience, no sex at all is MUCH easier to endure than erratic infrequent sex. I want the guy to spend less time strategizing how to get some sex and more time focusing on what else he wants to do with his life. Once sex is totally off the table, every decision is not weighted down with worrying "how will this impact my chances to get some sex this week / month / year?"

For guys like me, who don't leave despite being knowingly neglected, taking sex off the table completely is one of the few ways to ease him into the idea of leaving. It clears his mind of the obsession with sex, and gives him space to think about what he really wants from life.
[/QUOT
This is kinda working for me right now -- not obsessing about it 24/7. Wondering etc..it is helping clear my head in a lot of ways.

My DW SIL is in town for the weekend. She is now divorced for 2 years. I asked her about it last night casually. Because she does not believe in premarital sex has no plans of dating again and sites her deep relationship with God as satisfying her needs. I only mention it because of the shared DNA. She repeatedly said "marriage is hard" and people change. Her EXH was kinda a loser and brought zero to the marriage. And I think she is kinda a man hater now - at least a little bit.
 

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... I only mention it because of the shared DNA. She repeatedly said "marriage is hard" and people change. Her EXH was kinda a loser and brought zero to the marriage. And I think she is kinda a man hater now - at least a little bit.
Hmmm.

Birds of a feather flock together.
 

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MIA, you were going to explain it to her, but it doesn't look like you ever did. Good God! This has been going on for 4 years and your still talking about it. If you don't Do something, there'll be another 4 years of this. What you seem to be doing is some kind of internal self talk while deflecting the real problem. And your responses here seem a lot like the " ..yeah, but.." kind of thing.
My advice: File on her to get her attention because you don't have it yet. Another piece of advice: Get off your dead ass!
 

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I realize the progress has been slow (and to some unacceptable) but - its my marriage and I am not throwing it away. I have decided that there will be NO MORE SEX until she meets me half way in terms of effort, creativity, participation etc..
I'm not quite sure that this strategy will lead to success. If she's apathetic about sex, I suspect she won't even notice or care about the lack of sex. In fact, I suspect she will be happy to not have the pressure anymore.
There is a reason why the "NO MORE SEX" from the the HD person might be effective. Because, for years, the LD offender (LD does not = "offender" but in this case it appears to) depended on using the HD partner's HD against him or her. The consistency of the HD partner allowed the LD person to believe they could continue as-is forever. Their world was solid. Not really much to worry about.

But when the HD partner takes sex off the table, the LD person may wake up and smell the coffee. What's changed, or what might be about to change? HD person is suspected to not be able to change their ways, right? So something serious might be afoot.

Hey, just sayin', it's been at least somewhat effective for me. My wife got really shaken up, really badly, when sex became something I wanted only on my own terms, denying her gatekeeper status. I think so much of this is about control, and control is addictive. @Marriednatlanta 's wife has held a ton of power over the years. As has my wife. If you stop playing the LD person's game, things can change.

Again, this is not an indictment against all LD folk. Lots of reasons for LD that have nothing to do with control or insensitivity or selfishness.
 

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Nothing really. A few comments that it will get better once the kids get older (that is at least 13 years away), that is normal for couples with kids to experience this, etc....and a just a general unwillingness to do or try anything other than what we are doing. At this point, even a with a trip to Costa Rica coming up, I am so fed up with her level of participation in this process.

I stopped asking for sex, expecting sex, even hinting around sex with her about a month a go. We had a shower quickie a week or two ago. I am at a point where I would rather go without then have the same thing over and over and over again.

I will not participate unless it changes (the routine) that is. Am I being too harsh? I'm here because I am really open to almost anything.
I really understand. To be honest I had a p0rn issue,she saw it as cheating.
She all but cut me off for a while. I'm recovering. However,in 2009-2010 our sex life went south ,we dropped from 42- 55 times a year to last year less than 12,this year 3 times maybe.the reason was "I have cold sores" sex hurts yadda yadda yada.She has no fantasies. It is last on the "to do list"
  • Only because it is her obligation as my wife.we have been married 46+years for a while I gave up.and she said "What's wrong" I may have unloaded on her,Our sex life is just this side of non existent.this has got to change,either you don't care about us any more or,the other choice I think you know what that is. At one point I thought she was steppin' out. all of the red flags were there. she was not. I'm sure.
 

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Ok so. I have a question. You want your sex life to be satisfying and have her participate and you aren't just happy with an orgasm. What is you didn't get an orgasm at all? Would you be happy then? What is your wife just humped your leg and you never got a hard on or an orgasm but you didn't have to do any work. She just humped your leg rubbing herself up and down on your knee until she came? Would that be ok? Probably not.

LIsten a long time ago in this thread you admitted your wife has 10% orgasm or less with lately being less. Then you want more sex. Why? Why would she want more sex? Sex is supposed to be something enjoyable, sex should be orgasmic more often than not. You are getting yours but she isn't. Of course she is unmotivated. For her sex is a chore. Something she has to do for you to be happy but not something for her at all. You are treating her like a blow up doll. So she is acting like a blow up doll.

Some people have asked for specifics and you've glossed over those. First you say she is unhappy with things outside the bedroom. What things? What is her needs for feeling connected?

Second make the next several times you have sex about her orgasm. No matter what that takes. Even if you don't get one. Oral on her may or may not be the answer. She comes first is pretty much just about oral on the woman. Not every woman likes that. Most women do not orgasm from PIV alone.

Your wife is probably sexually repressed and doesn't even know what she would like. Women can also get very self conscious when the focus is on them. I might suggest using her starfish as a tool. Buy a blindfold, and some other toys like a vibrator, dildo. Have her lay on the bed and put the blindfold on. Specifically request she just lie back and not look. Tell her you need to know when something feels good let her know that if she doesn't feel comfortable talking maybe she could make some sound when you are getting warmer. Then work her over. You aren't allowed to use your penis until she has an orgasm. Tips. If you are going to do oral on her then put the dildo in it gives the vaginal walls something to grip. If you use the vibrator don't just stick it on the clitoris and leave it that can be way too intense.

Thing is she might be low drive, she might not be attracted to you or she could just have never really had good sex. Bad sex or mediocre sex for a women just doesn't do much for us. You admit that your sex life if just her laying there while you get on, get off and then done. Ask your self what's in it for her. You are basically asking her to just take one for the team once a week. Then you want to complain that she isn't doing enough for you. What the hell are you doing for her? Many women need more warm up and energy on their orgasm to achieve it then men. Fair? maybe not. But you find a good regular orgasm for her and you might just find she is more willing and adventurous because she then would have skin in the game. Also I don't think anyone on this thread has mentioned responsive desire. That is when a women doesn't go around horny, doesn't think about sex, but warms up after foreplay and such has started. It often takes 10 to 20 minutes for the motor to start running but then they enjoy sex. It doesn't sound like the kind of sex you are having is quality sex for you or HER.
 
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