[SunCMars]

It seems........

Your wit and your intelligence, this personality of yours is not enough for your wife.

You bore her, in tight quarters.
She needs other people around to keep her happy.

You are on your third marriage, and are very self-centered.

This not meant to be a dig, though, I'm sure it sounds this way.

Your wife sounds determined to get her own way and is at her wits end (with you!).

Eh, she may soon be looking for #3, herself.

 

[Icemann]

Then your situation will never change and it will never improve. You can’t control how she sees things, and she is unlikely to see anything from an objective perspective. She doesn’t care about your perspective, her actions make that crystal clear.

She doesn’t respect you, her actions make that crystal clear. Her threats of adultery and/or divorce alone are clear disrespect (bordering on contempt in my opinion), and should be more than enough to drive a shock and awe response from you.

Yet you say nothing. And you do nothing. Which will only further embolden her and further degrade her respect for you. You say you’re an arrogant prick, yet you also say that you fear your wife’s wrath and allow her to manipulate you, control you and disrespect you. While repeatedly telling yourself that she really does love and respect you.

Stop worrying about your wife’s annoying friends trying to control you with painkillers, her annoying friends are not the problem.

your lack of leadership in this marriage, and your refusal to take any action for yourself is.

I think it will be helpful for us to both take the Keirsoy-Bates personality inventory. Introduction | Debater (ENTP) Personality | 16Personalities I have taken this in the past and always come out as an ENTP or INTP, 'Debater' or 'Logician' (I spent 40 years as a trial lawyer, defending people against serious criminal charges and enjoyed it immensely). The book, and website, are designed to help people understand each other and each others' strengths and weaknesses.
I'm sure I can work on being better at suffering fools gladly.

 

[Icemann]

It seems........

Your wit and your intelligence, this personality of yours is not enough for your wife.

You bore her, in tight quarters.
She needs other people around to keep her happy.

You are on your third marriage, and are very self-centered.

This not meant to be a dig, though, I'm sure it sounds this way.

Your wife sounds determined to get her own way and is at her wits end (with you!).

Eh, she may soon be looking for #3, herself.

All true. I am very self centered. She wants to 'show me off.' As I said, she calls me her 'trophy husband.' This is ridiculous. At this point she can take me or leave me. Our next vacation will be planned privately. She will only know the dates. She can take it or not. In the meantime, I'm inviting my son to stay with us. He will drive us both crazy.

 

[Marc878]

You may want her but you don’t need her.

 

[DudeInProgress]

There is much truth in what you write. Yes, I want validation. I have written as much. I'm sorry you wrote this with a somewhat malicious tone, but that's YOUR issue.

Really, he has an issue because he wasn’t being gentle enough with you?

Look you have an F’d up situation, which apparently you have no intention of fixing.

Here’s the thing, I can’t speak for everyone on this forum but many (if not most) are here to help people take control of bad relationship situations and fix or improve their situation. Most of us want to help people who want to help themselves, and not really interested in validating your victimhood, ego, or engaging in this mental masturbation.

 

[DudeInProgress]

I think it will be helpful for us to both take the Keirsoy-Bates personality inventory. Introduction | Debater (ENTP) Personality | 16Personalities I have taken this in the past and always come out as an ENTP or INTP, 'Debater' or 'Logician' (I spent 40 years as a trial lawyer, defending people against serious criminal charges and enjoyed it immensely). The book, and website, are designed to help people understand each other and each others' strengths and weaknesses.
I'm sure I can work on being better at suffering fools gladly

 

[sokillme]

Just insist on having a few spouse only nights. I do that when I travel with friends. Everyone understands and is cool with that.

 

[DudeInProgress]

Just insist on having a few spouse only nights. I do that when I travel with friends. Everyone understands and is cool with that.

Apparently not, because that was their agreement in the beginning which she deliberately and blatantly violated.

 

[Ragnar Ragnasson]

I think it will be helpful for us to both take the Keirsoy-Bates personality inventory. Introduction | Debater (ENTP) Personality | 16Personalities I have taken this in the past and always come out as an ENTP or INTP, 'Debater' or 'Logician' (I spent 40 years as a trial lawyer, defending people against serious criminal charges and enjoyed it immensely). The book, and website, are designed to help people understand each other and each others' strengths and weaknesses.
I'm sure I can work on being better at suffering fools gladly

What in the hell are you talking about?

 

[Blondilocks]

A 70 year old guy who spent 40 years as a criminal defense attorney needs validation from a bunch of strangers that his wife is a conniving, selfish and immature people pleaser? OK. How many of your clients wound up in the pen?

 

[Diana7]

[this is long, you can skip to the end for my question]

I love my wife. She is the most generous person I know. We've been together for 20 years. It's her 2d marriage, my third. We are still physically attracted to each other.

She enthusiastically agreed to a two week vacation in Central America, but insisted on inviting her friend and friend's husband. I said no. I got roped into being with these boring people once before. We have nothing in common. I can handle an hour or two with these folks, make them laugh, entertain, but beyond that, it is a strain.

My wife insisted, threatened. I finally gave in. She agreed we wouldn't have to see them every day. I like lots of time alone, or alone just with my wife. These are very intrusive people. They like me, insist on my company. It is impossible to get time alone without being rude or without my wife fearing I will be rude. There is not a hint of sexual or romantic attraction with either of these people so that is not an issue. Her friend tries to buy my friendship with Rx drugs.

Then, without my knowing it, my wife booked the same hotel they were staying at, a small B&B where the 4 of us were the only guests. We had EVERY meal together every day until about day 3 when her friend insisted on our nonstop talking hostess join us for breakfast and dinner.
I had to get out; rented a separate hotel, despite more threats. It was glorious to just be alone. The manager of my new hotel is a retired psychologist and we got on well and instantly.

So here's my question:
Is it even close to reasonable to expect a spouse to go on a two week vacation with a spouse's friends?

I feel for you. As an introvert I/we take holidays to get away from people, to have time just for the two of us, and to relax. Going with friends for us would be anything but a relaxing holiday and would be emotionally exhausting and I think you are the same. This couple dont even sound as if they are your friends, you dont get on and have nothing in common.

The only compromise I can think of is to have one week with them and then a week just for the two of you.

Some people, the more extrovert among us ,would find a holiday alone boring and tiring, they get their strength from being with others, we are not like that, we get our strength from being alone and enjoying the peace and quiet.

 

[Taxman]

I'm sorry but that is intrusive on "alone time". What, pray tell, was your wife's motivation in inviting "friends". My wife pulled that on me exactly once. I told her that if that were her plans, she was welcome to go away with these friends and I would entertain myself while they were gone. She was caught short. I told her I tolerate these people in small increments. An evening or meal is ideal, but two damn weeks? I said, when we vacation, it is to get away from stuff: Kids, inlaws, work, and our circle of friends. Sorry, but wanting time alone with my wife is why I vacation. If my vacation is to be wasted with acquaintances sucking up the oxygen in the room, then I would rather stay home and continue working until my time is my own. My wife called them. We lost friends that day. I said that she was the responsible party, as she should have checked with me before making plans. Paying $5K to NOT enjoy myself? No f'ing way. From that point onward, vacation plans were made jointly.

That little remark about having an affair all set up would not be well received. In fact, I would say that since you seem to wish to piss away a decent marriage, please, by all means, go with it. I will be happy to recount this to a court of law. Your children will be so proud. If you wish to end our marriage for the sake of acquaintances, then obviously I have chosen the wrong wife. See you in court.

 

[Icemann]

Look you have an F’d up situation, which apparently you have no intention of fixing.

Here’s the thing, I can’t speak for everyone on this forum but many (if not most) are here to help people take control of bad relationship situations and fix or improve their situation. Most of us want to help people who want to help themselves, and not really interested in validating your victimhood, ego, or engaging in this mental masturbation.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, 'Dude,' you really sound helpful.

 

[MattMatt]

@Icemann Your wife has an affair partner already lined up?

 

[Icemann]

I'm sorry but that is intrusive on "alone time". What, pray tell, was your wife's motivation in inviting "friends". My wife pulled that on me exactly once. I told her that if that were her plans, she was welcome to go away with these friends and I would entertain myself while they were gone. She was caught short. I told her I tolerate these people in small increments. An evening or meal is ideal, but two damn weeks? I said, when we vacation, it is to get away from stuff: Kids, inlaws, work, and our circle of friends. Sorry, but wanting time alone with my wife is why I vacation. If my vacation is to be wasted with acquaintances sucking up the oxygen in the room, then I would rather stay home and continue working until my time is my own. My wife called them. We lost friends that day. I said that she was the responsible party, as she should have checked with me before making plans. Paying $5K to NOT enjoy myself? No f'ing way. From that point onward, vacation plans were made jointly.

That little remark about having an affair all set up would not be well received. In fact, I would say that since you seem to wish to piss away a decent marriage, please, by all means, go with it. I will be happy to recount this to a court of law. Your children will be so proud. If you wish to end our marriage for the sake of acquaintances, then obviously I have chosen the wrong wife. See you in court.

Exactly! I agree. I think even my wife now agrees. She lost her temper with her angry threats, thinking I would back down and not change hotels. I was wrong to go along in the first place with this absurd request. Part of the reason I did, was to meet up with my brother and his wife vacationing there. She loves them, but still, we only had 3 meals with them during two weeks. And on one of those, her friends dragged themselves along with us.

Never again will I agree to such a crazy idea, but I can work on being less judgmental and more tolerant, but two weeks with these people forced on me was ridiculous. She knows I will agree to anything like this again. I've made it clear she can move out if she doesn't like it. My house and savings are my separate property and besides this blind spot of hers, she's essentially honest and fair and has her own separate property, so there are no financial bad consequences to cutting her loose.

 

[Icemann]

@Icemann Your wife has an affair partner already lined up?

No. That was a lie. I knew it was a lie. She said it to get control. I called her bluff and changed hotels anyway. Things get said in anger, but at least there was no violence.

 

[pastasauce79]

Her friend, once beautiful, has become so bloated she looks like Humpty Dumpty, her little eyes and nose almost lost in a vast expanse of white flesh that spreads her grin across the face as if to completely dissect it. My wife fears I will actually say something like that out loud.

I understand your ranting. It's kinda funny but not funny.

You really come across as someone very arrogant, better than everyone else, and you could be, but come on! Move on. It was a terrible, unforgettable experience and you won't do it again. That's it.

The way you talked about it, I thought you were still down there! At the hotel by the pool.

Next time say no. Problem solved.

P.s. if she talks about divorce or an affair again, you know what to do.

 

[Icemann]

I understand your ranting. It's kinda funny but not funny.

You really come across as someone very arrogant, better than everyone else, and you could be, but come on! Move on. It was a terrible, unforgettable experience and you won't do it again. That's it.

The way you talked about it, I thought you were still down there! At the hotel by the pool.

Next time say no. Problem solved.

P.s. if she talks about divorce or an affair again, you know what to do.

I agree completely. And yes, I am arrogant... one of many failings. My little attempts at humor are a coping mechanism.

 

[pastasauce79]

I agree completely. And yes, I am arrogant... one of many failings. My little attempts at humor are a coping mechanism.

Where are you going on your next trip?

Just joking!

 

[ccpowerslave]

I occasionally travel with another couple.

Generally I don’t like traveling with others because I want to relax and operate on my own schedule. With that said it can be fun to have drinking buddies and such where you have limited interaction.

If would be pissed at the locked in a tiny B&B thing and I would have scheduled my own excursions and such with my wife to get away from them. I don’t like staying in B&B’s anyway as I hate being controlled I also don’t want to be at the mercy of their food or breakfast or any of their other stuff. My wife knows better than to pull that crap with me, she knows I want to stay at luxury resorts only.

If my wife was being a PITA about it I probably would have secured a supply of alcohol and or Rx drugs any opiates would do and medicated my way through most of it. I would not have stormed out of the place and rented a separate hotel although now that you brought it up congrats on the big D move.

The biggest amount of time I will take it on the chin doing something like that I don’t like is maybe 2-3 days tops not 2 weeks.