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“It’s never good enough for you” double-standard?

16K views 110 replies 26 participants last post by  farsidejunky 
#1 ·
Curious if I’m the only one who thinks there is a double-standard between the sexes on the phrase spelled out in the title? Do you think people use that phrase as a way to dodge culpability in something they should own but choose not to. I also feel like woman get a pass but guys do not because women remind us their under such societal pressure (which I do believe exists BTW).

Specifically if the woman says “it’s never good enough for you” the guy has to back down and respect that “that’s how she is” and he’s ass for bringing it up. If he says it, it’s a flimsy excuse and he’s not owning it. It’s almost as if she’s using the phrase to deflect any criticism whatsoever.

If the following “are “not good enough” he has to own it and fix it:
- work ethic, salary, standard of living
- being more romantic
- doing more with kids
- zoning out or not engaging more
- not listening
- eating and fitness habits
- developing stronger religious faith
- watching less sports
- noticing other women/avoiding porn
- desiring enthusiastic sex
- dressing like a slob
- not wanting to go out on a date
- housework or home maintenance equity
- drinking, smoking less
- speaking her love languages
- supporting her passions / hobbies

If the following are not good enough he needs to accept her for who she is and quit try to change her:
- spending more than they make
- house, car, finances in general
- unenthusiastic sex or (wanting too much sex)
- dressing down 24/7
- poor eating habits
- listening to respond not take in
- obsession with social media and Pinterest
- dating the kids rather than dating your spouse
- minimal interest his passions
- addressing medical issues



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#2 · (Edited)
Oh, I tend to agree with this, and I'm a woman. I think that society these days pretty much has the attitude that a man is not a good husband/boyfriend/partner unless the woman gets her way 99% of the time. I think feminism, for all the good things it has accomplished as far as women getting equal rights/opportunities, has morphed into something that does a disservice to both genders by trying to turn men into women with penises, as if the female outlook/approach to life is the "correct" one. Not everyone thinks this, of course, but it seems to be the prevelant message in the media and advertising.

Both men and women should own their behaviors and be committed to working on the things that erode the strength of a relationship.
 
#92 ·
Both men and women should own their behaviors and be committed to working on the things that erode the strength of a relationship.
It saddens me to see my wife failing to work on anything, save her upping the hours she spends on Netflix.
And nap-time.
It pains so much because we have a daughter.
So I feel alone
in marriage.
But in order to avoid trauma for the daughter (own parents divorced when young)
holding on
trying not to hold onto resentment

while Wife snores away
 
#3 ·
I think that I am more critical than my partner. He is happy with minimum so he doesn’t ever suggest anything for me or anything. Whereas I always to more or to improve or whatever, and I find he never changes and wants me to just be happy and accept him for who he is. On his opinion I demand perfect, and I think he is way off base and I think he’s a little lazy and dramatic.
 
#6 · (Edited)
What you really wanna say is “sure I accept and love you for who you are... I just find it increasingly unattractive.” I know I do. Smacks of entitlement. Partners need to realize there are hundreds of other people willing to take their place. Funny how when we’re in the dating pool it’s ALL about self-improvement.

Discussing this with my wife this weekend I said that your spouse sees who you are and your potential often better than you. I didn’t want to necessarily improve myself at the time but I did and I’m much better, thanked her for it and that I trust her judgement. I said it kinda hurts that instead of trusting me she thinks I just need to accept her how she is. [emoji47]

EDIT: to me the “vulnerability” of owning and wanting to improve together is very attractive in a partner. And I guarantee if you said “no I don’t accept and I’m out of here” they would be fixing it or hiding it once in the dating pool again.


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#4 ·
I think this is embodied in the representation of men on TV, especially in sitcoms and commercials, as useless oafs who (despite having a high paying job that puts a roof over their family's heads) can't seem to tie his shoes correctly or is only interested in watching football, has no interest in the kids, etc. But the women are there to tell him what to wear, where to be, and when he needs to lose some weight.
 
#7 · (Edited)
As I have got older I have got easier to please and more easy going. Or maybe its being married for 14 years to the most easy going easy to please laid back Aussie ever. Its nice to be more content and not bother about the things that so many others worry about, and I also understand that in marriage we need to love and accept each other as we are and not try and change each other into something we are not.

So the list you write isn't really an issue, and is in fact very generalised and too over simplified.
 
#11 ·
It’s all about unmet expectations. And we form these expectations early on in life.
Yes. But women are allowed to have unrealistic expectations. They want to stay home with the kids, while living in a house that THREE incomes wouldn't support, and have a husband who doesn't really need to work, but who can devote 90% of his waking life to "doing things with the family" and "helping around the house".

And, women are allowed to cite the above expectations as a prerequisite to sexual attraction to their husband, and as a VALID REASON why they are allowed to act like a pandering b___h wolf in heat at a rock concert.

After all, these paragons of irresistible male pulchritude are so grateful for each and every one of them, and will be right there to wipe up snot as soon as they step off their entertainer coaches.
 
#9 ·
When the wife announced she was leaving, I started to do a lot of introspection and reading about causes and solutions of the situation I was in. The preponderance of opinion could be summed up as "If you do everything your wife says (and thinks) you should do, everything will be wonderful because she will automatically know what will make you happy and will do it". There are lots of negative implications in all of it. The husband is lazy and inconsiderate while the wife is empathetic and diligent. The husband doesn't listen and the wife carries the family on her back. She's selfless and he's selfish.

Almost none of it could be applied to an involved father. It also didn't allow for fallibility in the wives. That's especially unfair for the women (too much pressure).
 
#14 ·
In marriage its also very helpful to have God involved, because when I pray about being a better wife, God answers and sometimes challenges me on things that I should or shouldn't be doing. Not comfortable for me at all sometimes, but His aim is to keep marriages strong and after all I did ask.:surprise:
 
#16 ·
Another thing I noticed... is that some men are attracted to a certain type of women that I can spot a mile away that they are high maintenance, no work ethic, and have a certain expectation. Then they are surprised when their lives turn into what it does.

And I don’t think there is anything wrong with women like this. And to be honest I think they make it clear how they want it to be. Some women just want to be a trophy wife and it can work out really well for the family. Some women are of cultures where women don’t work, and that’s a mans job. The problem is when a man wants the trophy wife type of wife, then have an expectation that she is going to work hard outside the home, maintain the home and kids, while looking like models.
 
#97 ·
The real problem ( excuse me being crude) is that two heads are making the decisions in choosing a wife. The little head wants the sexy beauty, high maintenance etc, whereas the big head wants the hard worker, home organiser, etc. Therein lies the conflict. That is why arranged marriages in the olden days worked 😅 only one head was involved.
 
#17 ·
My friend who is a nurse, has an expectation of getting married, having 3-4 kids and staying home, and possibly home schooling. She told her boyfriend (now husband) this. And now they are expecting their first child. So she told him... we have to start talking about me going part time.
Some people can see this as a problem and it not being fair. I think that it’s up to her husband to lay down the law and know if this is a possible arrangement at the time or not. Because if it’s not possible, he has to say that’s not possible at this time, we will need your income to x,y,z etc. it’s all about communications, and being in the same team. If the goal is for them to be finically comfortable and her stay home they need to have a plan together and a budget.
 
#27 ·
All I know is that when I come home from work I am exhausted. It’s fine when I am single and living by myself because I can relax after work, and cook or pick at food as I want. I never make full on meals. Also because I don’t make full on meals I don’t have a mess to clean up so my home is always clean.
Living alone is easy and not hard to maintain. But when adding someone to my house like my boyfriend, jt instantly makes my life way harder and easily doubles my “work”.
 
#31 ·
This whole list sounds like an incompatible couple or people who are "checked-out". I shouldn't HAVE to tell my husband to be interested in the kids, coax him into dates, or beg for help around the house we both work to support. My husband also shouldn't think its okay for me to listen to respond rather than hear him, nor should he feel like I am disinterested in his passions or that I withhold physical love. No relationship is perfect but I HATE the "its never good enough for you" line. That is the ultimate dismissive jab to avoid addressing a problem.
 
#32 ·
From what you write, it sounds terrible.

I will offer experience from the male side, that may or may not have any relevence.

I can see that I had relationships with women whose commitments was passive. I learned that "I love you" meant "I am going to rely on you for my happiness". So, how they felt was everything.

I could work hard on everything, but they believe on some level that their contribution had only to be complaining about what they were unhappy about. We see this with anglo-saxon emotional labour, where a man physically does a job, but they woman feels like she did it. If I were to read a lady such as that post, it would be her complaining that the man did not appreciate her and that she had to do everything - which she did not do physically, but did emotionally. The man on the other hand would be sick of being complained at by a woman who did nothing.
 
#40 ·
There's no double standard here.....
Men and woman are different, always will be.

I say quit complaining.
Learn more about what women want and how to act to get it.
Geez...If you don't know by now I'll tell you a secret....
Men are idealistic and women are opportunistic.
It's nature. It's about survival.
 
#43 ·
It shows that you rescue those who have massive short comings. In it's self is not all that bad, but a self sufficient man is worthy of you. And nothing less, what in your life caused this in you? Maybe your parents did a very good job and instilling Independence and a great value of being a successful.

That is great that you are this way. But only seem to sell yourself short in what you settle for in a man. Don't do it unless you want to be the mommy to them all. It's no wonder why he is the way he is he looks at you kinda like a mommy. And you scold me trying to keep him in line. It's not fair to you.
 
#54 ·
I do not agree with this, each couple is different and in many instances, the female is not good enough. If she doesn't fix it, then it results in withdrawal, stonewalling, unenthusiastic engagement with the family life, affairs, etc etc.
There has been double standards for centuries, he has an affair, (oh poor guy, not being taken care of at home), she has an affair, (she is a ****).
She must work outside the home and in the home; he works outside the home and comes home to drink beer or go play golf
She works in an office in same position, probably does more work but gets 80% of the males pay (wage differential due to gender only)
On and on.........

To my mind it is about time the males got to feel what it's like to live with double standards, women have been living with this for centuries, so sorry I'll get out my violin
 
#55 ·
I am a little unsure of your post. You state each couple of different, then appear to say how they are all the same.

"If she doesn't fix it, then it results in withdrawal, stonewalling, unenthusiastic engagement with the family life, affairs, etc etc." - really, that is normal? Frankly, the way things are, I expect to be the active emotional support and the woman typically provides a person to love to inspire more.

"She must work outside the home and in the home; he works outside the home and comes home to drink beer or go play golf" - that is fantasy stuff. Really. I have seen culture where that is true, but they are rare. I grew up in th eUK and it is not true there in actual doing, but it is the what women say and men also play along with the narrative. But, clearly, it is not actually true. In Scandinavia, my partners said I did plenty round the house, in the UK, they said I did nothing. It was not the contribution that changed.

"There has been double standards for centuries, he has an affair, (oh poor guy, not being taken care of at home), she has an affair, (she is a ****)." - Again, not true. We see plenty of cases on here where the woman does not contribure and the man is trying to figure out what he is doing wrong. It used to be women were like furniture in a relationship, and the common will was the husband's will (so it would be poor him). Now, we have only moved half the way, and the man is seen more like the adult, responsible for the actions of the woman, so he is a hero if his marriage is good and a schmuck if his marriage is bad. It is still based on a sexist premise, but one that many feminists will fight hard to protect while also appealing to the Red Pill crowd.

"She works in an office in same position, probably does more work but gets 80% of the males pay (wage differential due to gender only)" - in which case men would never get a job. Why pay then 25% more. How about this, compare two people at a meeting. The first stands up, throws tough questions at the presenter and exposes flaws. Suggests a mitigation plan and leads straight off. The other speaks to the presenter afterwards, finds out the consensous in the office, then facilitiates a refined plan. The second is probably better, but the first (more masculine) approach fits in with our current image of an upcoming executive. It is feminity rather than women that is sidelined. I am in science as I am a working class man, and I had to earn money to prove myself and start a family. Had I been a woman, I am far more likely to go into the arts (which I am better at) and be earning about 50% of what I earn. There is sexism there, but it is the reverse of why it takes women a longer time getting ready to go out.

"On and on........." The commonality, that we see in films from America, is that women are seen as passive and judged by how they are treated. Women are heroic when they act in a masculine manner while still being attractive while passive to the male gaze. We saw in Game of Thrones how the screen writers could not write a feminine heroic character without her having to actmore like an action hero.
 
#57 ·
This is not gender specific it’s person specific. On my biased experience, the man is not pulling his weight and I do think he isn’t doing enough. In others personal experience it’s the opposite.

But sometimes people aren’t doing enough. Some people try to do bare minimum. Some people really aren’t good enough.
 
#66 ·
I am going to Miami for a work conference next week and my work is Paying for most of it. I’m in lecture till 12 everyday then I’m free. I told my boyfriend to come, that it will be a free vacation for him except he has to pay for his flight. He said yes.

A month before the trip I have to remind him to buy his plane tickets. (Tickets get more and more expensive). He doesn’t buy them. I remind him multiple times a week. He’s stressed at work. I tell him that it’s really important to me that he comes, because we both really need a vacation and we need time together. He says he will. His work said he can go, but will have to video in for a couple meetings. I kept reminding him to buy his tickets. He does less than a week before. Then yesterday he realizes he put in the wrong date, and he’s pissed off. And now the cheapest tickets are like $600. He is so angry and mad and I am just biting my tongue bc all I want to say is... I told you to buy them earlier, and also your complaining about a free vacation!!

So anyway.... I’m not sure he is going to go. He is so stressed about it. I leave this Sunday (2 days). Last night when we were in bed, he was saying how stressed out he was, and I nicely said... well I told you to buy them earlier. And something about how he should feel lucky it’s a free vacation but for some reason he doesn’t think that way. Anyway... needless to say he wasn’t happy about my response as he went to bed without talking.

I told him he doesn’t have to go if he doesn’t want to. But honestly, if he doesn’t go this might be a breaking point for us.
 
#73 ·
Girl_power, this is just like this thread title states, is their a double standard. Why is it required that a woman should eat crap to accept the man. And l ask Girl_power why does she believe historically it must be the woman who would have to do this.

Help me understand this Girl_power? Please explain.
 
#74 ·
Girl_power, this is just like this thread title states, is their a double standard. Why is it required that a woman should eat crap to accept the man. And l ask Girl_power why does she believe historically it must be the woman who would have to do this.



Help me understand this Girl_power? Please explain.


It’s just my upbringing and my personal experience that men are just like that. My dad was like this. Even though my mom stayed home and never worked, my dad never lifted a finger. He has no idea how to take care of himself. He went from his moms house to married. Today my dad is retired and still doesn’t know how to cook, clean, do laundry, run the dishwasher, or use the microwave. If my mom didn’t cook, my dad would eat McDonald’s everyday. So that’s what I was use to. My brothers are she same way. I was just raised not to expect much from men.

Don’t get me wrong, my dad has a good heart. But he is clueless. He doesn’t realize how disrespectful his behavior is to my mom. He doesn’t see it that way. But my dad has to be told what to do always. He’s never helped my mom with any housework, ever.


So when I am with someone who is lazy, I kind of think about the men in my family, their not bad people, and they have good sides to them. And I rationalize it.
Whenever I call my mom and vent about it she always says... what do you expect that’s the way men are. And basically gives off the vibe that I’m expecting too much from men and basically that’s how all men are and I’ll be single forever if I don’t put up with it.
 
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