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Discussion Starter #1
Curious if I’m the only one who thinks there is a double-standard between the sexes on the phrase spelled out in the title? Do you think people use that phrase as a way to dodge culpability in something they should own but choose not to. I also feel like woman get a pass but guys do not because women remind us their under such societal pressure (which I do believe exists BTW).

Specifically if the woman says “it’s never good enough for you” the guy has to back down and respect that “that’s how she is” and he’s ass for bringing it up. If he says it, it’s a flimsy excuse and he’s not owning it. It’s almost as if she’s using the phrase to deflect any criticism whatsoever.

If the following “are “not good enough” he has to own it and fix it:
- work ethic, salary, standard of living
- being more romantic
- doing more with kids
- zoning out or not engaging more
- not listening
- eating and fitness habits
- developing stronger religious faith
- watching less sports
- noticing other women/avoiding porn
- desiring enthusiastic sex
- dressing like a slob
- not wanting to go out on a date
- housework or home maintenance equity
- drinking, smoking less
- speaking her love languages
- supporting her passions / hobbies

If the following are not good enough he needs to accept her for who she is and quit try to change her:
- spending more than they make
- house, car, finances in general
- unenthusiastic sex or (wanting too much sex)
- dressing down 24/7
- poor eating habits
- listening to respond not take in
- obsession with social media and Pinterest
- dating the kids rather than dating your spouse
- minimal interest his passions
- addressing medical issues



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Oh, I tend to agree with this, and I'm a woman. I think that society these days pretty much has the attitude that a man is not a good husband/boyfriend/partner unless the woman gets her way 99% of the time. I think feminism, for all the good things it has accomplished as far as women getting equal rights/opportunities, has morphed into something that does a disservice to both genders by trying to turn men into women with penises, as if the female outlook/approach to life is the "correct" one. Not everyone thinks this, of course, but it seems to be the prevelant message in the media and advertising.

Both men and women should own their behaviors and be committed to working on the things that erode the strength of a relationship.
 

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I think that I am more critical than my partner. He is happy with minimum so he doesn’t ever suggest anything for me or anything. Whereas I always to more or to improve or whatever, and I find he never changes and wants me to just be happy and accept him for who he is. On his opinion I demand perfect, and I think he is way off base and I think he’s a little lazy and dramatic.
 

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I think this is embodied in the representation of men on TV, especially in sitcoms and commercials, as useless oafs who (despite having a high paying job that puts a roof over their family's heads) can't seem to tie his shoes correctly or is only interested in watching football, has no interest in the kids, etc. But the women are there to tell him what to wear, where to be, and when he needs to lose some weight.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
I think that I am more critical than my partner. He is happy with minimum so he doesn’t ever suggest anything for me or anything. Whereas I always to more or to improve or whatever, and I find he never changes and wants me to just be happy and accept him for who he is. On his opinion I demand perfect, and I think he is way off base and I think he’s a little lazy and dramatic.

What you really wanna say is “sure I accept and love you for who you are... I just find it increasingly unattractive.” I know I do. Smacks of entitlement. Partners need to realize there are hundreds of other people willing to take their place. Funny how when we’re in the dating pool it’s ALL about self-improvement.

Discussing this with my wife this weekend I said that your spouse sees who you are and your potential often better than you. I didn’t want to necessarily improve myself at the time but I did and I’m much better, thanked her for it and that I trust her judgement. I said it kinda hurts that instead of trusting me she thinks I just need to accept her how she is.

EDIT: to me the “vulnerability” of owning and wanting to improve together is very attractive in a partner. And I guarantee if you said “no I don’t accept and I’m out of here” they would be fixing it or hiding it once in the dating pool again.


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As I have got older I have got easier to please and more easy going. Or maybe its being married for 14 years to the most easy going easy to please laid back Aussie ever. Its nice to be more content and not bother about the things that so many others worry about, and I also understand that in marriage we need to love and accept each other as we are and not try and change each other into something we are not.

So the list you write isn't really an issue, and is in fact very generalised and too over simplified.
 

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It’s all about unmet expectations. And we form these expectations early on in life. And there SHOULD be some expectations in relationships.
 

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When the wife announced she was leaving, I started to do a lot of introspection and reading about causes and solutions of the situation I was in. The preponderance of opinion could be summed up as "If you do everything your wife says (and thinks) you should do, everything will be wonderful because she will automatically know what will make you happy and will do it". There are lots of negative implications in all of it. The husband is lazy and inconsiderate while the wife is empathetic and diligent. The husband doesn't listen and the wife carries the family on her back. She's selfless and he's selfish.

Almost none of it could be applied to an involved father. It also didn't allow for fallibility in the wives. That's especially unfair for the women (too much pressure).
 

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It’s all about unmet expectations. And we form these expectations early on in life.
Yes. But women are allowed to have unrealistic expectations. They want to stay home with the kids, while living in a house that THREE incomes wouldn't support, and have a husband who doesn't really need to work, but who can devote 90% of his waking life to "doing things with the family" and "helping around the house".

And, women are allowed to cite the above expectations as a prerequisite to sexual attraction to their husband, and as a VALID REASON why they are allowed to act like a pandering b___h wolf in heat at a rock concert.

After all, these paragons of irresistible male pulchritude are so grateful for each and every one of them, and will be right there to wipe up snot as soon as they step off their entertainer coaches.
 

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I think this is embodied in the representation of men on TV, especially in sitcoms and commercials, as useless oafs who (despite having a high paying job that puts a roof over their family's heads) can't seem to tie his shoes correctly or is only interested in watching football, has no interest in the kids, etc. But the women are there to tell him what to wear, where to be, and when he needs to lose some weight.
Which is why I don't watch TV or movies anymore.
 

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In marriage its also very helpful to have God involved, because when I pray about being a better wife, God answers and sometimes challenges me on things that I should or shouldn't be doing. Not comfortable for me at all sometimes, but His aim is to keep marriages strong and after all I did ask.:surprise:
 

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Yes. But women are allowed to have unrealistic expectations. They want to stay home with the kids, while living in a house that THREE incomes wouldn't support, and have a husband who doesn't really need to work, but who can devote 90% of his waking life to "doing things with the family" and "helping around the house".

And, women are allowed to cite the above expectations as a prerequisite to sexual attraction to their husband, and as a VALID REASON why they are allowed to act like a pandering b___h wolf in heat at a rock concert.

After all, these paragons of irresistible male pulchritude are so grateful for each and every one of them, and will be right there to wipe up snot as soon as they step off their entertainer coaches.


I understand what your saying. Yea that’s bull crap. But that’s just not my experience at all. My experience is I work just as much outside the home, and way more inside the home. That the man feels entitled to sit down and relax and decompress after a stressful day of work and not help out around the house. And then when he does help, he expects a big thank you and appreciation like he cured cancer.
And then they turn it into this... nothing is ever good enough, you expect perfection blah blah blah, and all I can say is I don’t expect a gold medal when I take out the trash. I just do it.
 

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Another thing I noticed... is that some men are attracted to a certain type of women that I can spot a mile away that they are high maintenance, no work ethic, and have a certain expectation. Then they are surprised when their lives turn into what it does.

And I don’t think there is anything wrong with women like this. And to be honest I think they make it clear how they want it to be. Some women just want to be a trophy wife and it can work out really well for the family. Some women are of cultures where women don’t work, and that’s a mans job. The problem is when a man wants the trophy wife type of wife, then have an expectation that she is going to work hard outside the home, maintain the home and kids, while looking like models.
 

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My friend who is a nurse, has an expectation of getting married, having 3-4 kids and staying home, and possibly home schooling. She told her boyfriend (now husband) this. And now they are expecting their first child. So she told him... we have to start talking about me going part time.
Some people can see this as a problem and it not being fair. I think that it’s up to her husband to lay down the law and know if this is a possible arrangement at the time or not. Because if it’s not possible, he has to say that’s not possible at this time, we will need your income to x,y,z etc. it’s all about communications, and being in the same team. If the goal is for them to be finically comfortable and her stay home they need to have a plan together and a budget.
 

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I understand what your saying. Yea that’s bull crap. But that’s just not my experience at all. My experience is I work just as much outside the home, and way more inside the home. That the man feels entitled to sit down and relax and decompress after a stressful day of work and not help out around the house. And then when he does help, he expects a big thank you and appreciation like he cured cancer.
And then they turn it into this... nothing is ever good enough, you expect perfection blah blah blah, and all I can say is I don’t expect a gold medal when I take out the trash. I just do it.
It probably makes me an Ahole but things like this comfort and amuse me. I'm not laughing at you but at me and life in general. When the kids were younger and I got home from work, I usually got to stop doing chores when it was time to go to sleep. I generally didn't sleep that much. She was a stay at home mom. When the kids were in elementary school I could sometimes sit for half an hour while they did their own baths (unless I was still cleaning up from supper or they wanted help). She worked part time. I get the impression that my effort wouldn't have been thankless in other situations. In the end it didn't matter. It didn't improve relations at home. It didn't stop the divorce.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I understand what your saying. Yea that’s bull crap. But that’s just not my experience at all. My experience is I work just as much outside the home, and way more inside the home. That the man feels entitled to sit down and relax and decompress after a stressful day of work and not help out around the house. And then when he does help, he expects a big thank you and appreciation like he cured cancer.
And then they turn it into this... nothing is ever good enough, you expect perfection blah blah blah, and all I can say is I don’t expect a gold medal when I take out the trash. I just do it.


I agree that men need a little “cave time” after work but this is just selfishness. I travel 10-13 days a month and even though I’m beat when I get back I jump right back in... dishes, laundry, kids, etc.


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I agree that men need a little “cave time” after work but this is just selfishness. I travel 10-13 days a month and even though I’m beat when I get back I jump right back in... dishes, laundry, kids, etc.


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I think people like us... who work hard are surprised by who lazy and entitled some people are in relationships. And this is an all gender issue.

In my experience people think they do so much and aren’t appreciated. I think that, my boyfriend thinks that, and lots of couples think that.
 
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